USF Tech Mini Mod - Feedback Thread

#1
3 weeks ago
Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 201 admin

Hey everyone,

Please use this thread for feedback on the USF tech preview mod: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245434/usf-tech-changes-mod-changelog/p1?new=1

Feedback

We would be particularly keen to get feedback on the following.

-Timings
-Costs
-Tier composition
-Overall attractiveness of this new system

«1

Comments

  • #2
    3 weeks ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,683
    edited November 16

    The main reason USF do not work is because both VG/Penal are modeled after Riflemen while they have better tech tree. Fixing VG and Penal would result in both USF and UKF being fine without having to redesign both factions.

    Else simply make all faction have the same tech tree.

  • #3
    3 weeks ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,683

    If you are going to go down this road, I would suggest to simply remove the "free" officer feature. Officer could become buy able or promoted from infantry in the tend by removing the infantry from the map and bring in an officer for the difference in cost.

    That would make USF easier to balance, would allow some use for unwanted vehicles crew, and would burden users with officers that might be unwanted.

  • #4
    3 weeks ago

    No tech should reward you with an extra unit for free. OKW trucks all need extra upgrades for beneftis, except T3 Flak Truck (this should be changed in the same way, maybe an amuniton upgrade). That would also fix USF blob problem.

    Just think about this issue: You start with 1 Rear Echelon. Then you build just 2 GIs and 1 mortar. Next you go for T1 Lieutenant to get a .50 cal. After that you need AT guns, so you tech T3 Captain. At this point, you already got 1 Echelon, 2 GIs and 2 Officer squads only for infantry purpose! In late game you need the Major, so a 3rd officer joins the field. And if you then like to play airborne or with rangers, you really struggle in microing all those squads AND in handling your manpower. Not to mention you also want some tanks?! This isn't much fun to play.

    So making the officer squads a seperate upgrade would also be in USF players interest. It opens a much wider field of playstyles and techs.

  • #5
    3 weeks ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,683

    When I tested the mode bar upgrade for LT was listed as 50 not 60 as mentioned in the notes:

    Lieutenant

    -BAR removed; can be purchased for 60 munitions. BAR on an earlier LT was seen as too powerful.

  • #6
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196

    I understand your sentiments but axis unit price 240Gren and 250volkz will over run the 280MP rifle man in early. Even now Axis over run USF and Soviet Penal Tech which you will need allies to cover for your for 5-10mins of the game.
    That is why Soviet and Brit combo is more viable.

    Dual USF win rate is very low coz being overrun by dual OKW in early game. Which lead many USF players like me having problem coz if you tech for capt you will get overrun by 4-5 volkz counter by that time you still got 3 rfiles and a RE. You will wait for 5-10min to accumulate a fuel to get LT then MG.
    Go check youtube video you will see why USF getting overrun by Gren/Volkz spam.

    The reason for the changes is Support Weapon Early Access and better composition line up which other faction already have. While giving side tech to prevent vehicle rush, which is a good turning point right now. The only down side i see for USF is the m20 which will come in later the usual (Which i tested) coz 222 is already spammed by very hard AI. Captain tier tech fixed that coz we get the AT gun early.

    Note: Axis right now is very strong specially with the Panther/brumbar update. USF faction long game is literally a burden to the team coz of weak Tanks including Pershing. In 3v3 & 4v4 no body get Preshing coz its crap versus 6 to 10 Panthers/Elephant/Jagtiger. An axis player will get 3-4 panthers which will be in critical Mass if combined with other player.

  • #7
    3 weeks ago

    M20 should get skirts basically

    delete bazooka and buff Mounted .50cal penetration 3/2/1 -> 6/5/4

  • #8
    3 weeks ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 3,941

    Looks like a nice set of changes to make "full" teching a bit more viable - though it might be worth shifting an additional 10 fuel out of the officer and in to the building upgrade.

    With splitting the cost between officers and buildings, how much do we plan on making it cost the USF to rebuild destroyed base buildings? Might as well address this balance issue now while we're looking at teching.

  • #9
    3 weeks ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 388
    edited November 17

    @VonManteuffel said:
    No tech should reward you with an extra unit for free. OKW trucks all need extra upgrades for beneftis, except T3 Flak Truck (this should be changed in the same way, maybe an amuniton upgrade). That would also fix USF blob problem.

    Trucks (summoned or deployed) grants free upgrades like flames grenades and fausts, weapon upgrade unlock (STGs) - MG 34 unlock if you match it to non vehicule unit upgrades (this mod howitzer, bofors). Battle hq has forward reinforce as well for free (bunker + upgrade for ost); you mentionned the flak.

    Edit early feedback:

    Quality of life: It would really makes weapon racks less frustrating to use if we had weapon icons to upgrade to either bars or zooks while being near the hq.
    It's annoying to get your squad take the wrong weapon because you misclicked for x y z, or to micro your squads to avoid them running around the wall.

    The changes makes sense from a design pov since lt and cpt gives both suppression and AT now; i would makes some other changes:
    -Lt, cpt, maj vet: worth a review imo specially sprint on major
    -Cpt: maybe REs can be replaced by RM now.
    -Major: Maybe follow the same design choice w a tier 3.5.

  • #10
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196
    edited November 17

    Trucks (summon or deployed) grants free upgrades like flames grenades and fausts, weapon upgrade unlock (STGs) - MG 34 unlock if you match it to non vehicule unit upgrades (this mod howitzer, bofors). Battle hq has forward reinforce as well for free (bunker + upgrade for ost); you mentionned the flak.

    Just saying...

    This is the main reason OKW is so strong. Many free upgrade for a single truck. No Tech Reketen while other need to. Free STG and Grenade. Non doc King tiger, other need doctrine to get Heavies, Non doc elites units. Much powerful infantry and tanks.

  • #11
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196

    @Lazarus said:
    Looks like a nice set of changes to make "full" teching a bit more viable - though it might be worth shifting an additional 10 fuel out of the officer and in to the building upgrade.

    With splitting the cost between officers and buildings, how much do we plan on making it cost the USF to rebuild destroyed base buildings? Might as well address this balance issue now while we're looking at teching.

    I do Agree with that.

    150 Manpower for both officer LT/Capt should be 280MP its basically a Rifleman Squad. While the 30 Fuel for unlock tech for MG/AT gun.

    Readjust the training speed faster its just comes out too long should be same speed as regular rifle so you will not be over run using 2 rifle and 1 Rear Echelon while spending 280MP and 30 Fuel. and its hard to rush MG/AT out if you did not secure Fuel/cutoff point.

    **Adjustments: **

    Lieutenant
    Training Time same as Rifle (counter to OKW Sturmpioner rush/spam in Cities)
    280 Manpower
    30 Fuel

    Captain
    Training Time same as Rifle (Alternative counter to OKW Sturmpioner rush/spam in Cities)
    280 Manpower
    30 Fuel

    Then Command Post Upgrade should have longer upgrade time to adjust the timing of vehicles.

  • #12
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 95
    edited November 17

    I cant believe there are a thread about USF tech, and days later there is a mod to test...

    I hope taking away Lieu's bar will make their cost cheaper if I want to build another Lieu after they die (280 to 250 maybe, to make up 60ammo)

    This still not fix the problem of Panzer4 comes earlier than a Sherman, because of side tech. But I see there are alot of pros in this

    • A free squad come earlier
    • Cap & Grenade tech price down, 20fuel cheaper
    • Early mid game is playable
    • Back tech is much easier: to get another free squad in late game & get a missing weapon team.

    I think I take this change.

  • #13
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196

    Full Tech OKW

    100MP 15Fuel Trucks Faust/stg/MG
    100MP 15Fuel Trucks
    100MP 15Fuel Trucks
    200MP 25Fuel Battlegroup
    200MP 45Fuel Mech
    200MP 120Fuel Panzer
    Total
    900MP 235 Fuel

    Full Tech USF (mod Changes)

    150MP 15 Fuel Grenade
    150MP 15 Fuel Weapon Racks
    150MP 30 Fuel Lieutenant
    50MP 20 Fuel Command Post Upgrade
    150MP 30Captain
    50MP 20Fuel Command Post Upgrade
    240MP 120Fuel Major
    Total
    940MP 250Fuel

    Full tech Wechmch
    100MP 40Fu BattlePhase 1 Grenade
    200Mp 90Fu BattlePhase 2
    100MP 25Fu BattlePhase 3
    80MP 10Fu T1
    200MP 20fu T2
    140MP 15fu T3
    100MP 25fu T4
    Total
    920MP 225 Fuel

  • #14
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196
    edited November 17

    @C3Tooth said:
    I cant believe there are a thread about USF tech, and days later there is a mod to test...

    I hope taking away Lieu's bar will make their cost cheaper if I want to build another Lieu after they die (280 to 250 maybe, to make up 60ammo)

    This still not fix the problem of Panzer4 comes earlier than a Sherman, because of side tech. But I see there are alot of pros in this

    • A free squad come earlier
    • Cap & Grenade tech price down, 20fuel cheaper
    • Early mid game is playable
    • Back tech is much easier: to get another free squad in late game & get a missing weapon team.

    I think I take this change.

    Main reason for the early Panzer 4 is the fuel cost to tech up is much less vs getting Sherman.

    Gren will have weapon upgrade and grenade at battlephase 1
    And having tech to tier 2 units and 3.

    To get Panzer 4 no Tier skipped.

    175Fuel as Wechmach

    Versus

    To get access to sherman. Skipped Tier LT or Capt
    Rifle with grenade tech/ weapon rack
    235 Fuel Capt
    or
    225 Fuel Lt

    Current USF full tech fuel cost is
    285 Fuel
    while having mediocre tanks vs other factions.

  • #15
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 95
    edited November 17

    To be more detailed
    Ost 1st Panzer4 is 300fuel

    USF 1st Sherman is 290fuel as going Cap tech without sidetech (current)
    USF 1st Sherman is 330fuel as going Cap tech with sidetech (current)
    USF 1st Sherman is 280fuel as going Lieu or Cap tech without sidetech (in this mod)
    USF 1st Sherman is 310fuel as going Lieu or Cap tech with sidetech (in this mod)

    Its your choice, either your Riflemen raped by Sturm,Stg Volk / LMG Gren, Panzer Gren. Or Sherman comes later than Panzer4.


    Not only USF, but for all Allied faction with their sidetech.
    Soviet 1st T34 is 290fuel as going Weaponsupport tech without sidetech
    Soviet 1st T34 is 325fuel as going Weaponsupport tech with sidetech

    Again, either your Conscript being vet feed to Axis, or T34 raped by Panzer4 because its 25fuel late.

  • #16
    3 weeks ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,108

    Sweet baby jesus this is lovely

  • #17
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196
    edited November 17

    @C3Tooth said:
    To be more detailed
    Ost 1st Panzer4 is 300fuel

    USF 1st Sherman is 290fuel as going Cap tech without sidetech (current)
    USF 1st Sherman is 330fuel as going Cap tech with sidetech (current)
    USF 1st Sherman is 280fuel as going Lieu or Cap tech without sidetech (in this mod)
    USF 1st Sherman is 310fuel as going Lieu or Cap tech with sidetech (in this mod)

    Its your choice, either your Riflemen raped by Sturm,Stg Volk / LMG Gren, Panzer Gren. Or Sherman comes later than Panzer4.


    Not only USF, but for all Allied faction with their sidetech.
    Soviet 1st T34 is 290fuel as going Weaponsupport tech without sidetech
    Soviet 1st T34 is 325fuel as going Weaponsupport tech without sidetech

    Again, either your Conscript being vet feed to Axis, or T34 raped by Panzer4 because its 25fuel late.

    With the 300 fuel Ost got all the arsenal they need from Gren LMG to grenade.
    MG, mortar , AT Gun and the rest or Tier 1,2,3. Ost dont need to skip tier to get Panzer 4 early.

    But
    While USF are forced to commit to one or left behind.
    USF will just have either Capt/ LT tech + Major.

  • #18
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 95
    edited November 17

    I highly believe developers should give Soviet/USF the choice between

    • Fully upgraded infantry and equal fuel required for the 1st core medium tank
    • Stock infantry and get much early 1st core medium tank.

    Currently Soviet/USF have their 1st core tank come later than Axis and its Soviet/USF already lasted tech, but Axis still have further tech

  • #19
    3 weeks ago
    I don't play USF that much. I 'm more of a Soviet/Axis main, but here is my suggestion to make USF more appealing.

    Current Platoon Com. Post:
    Lieutenant
    M20 Utility Car
    M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team
    M15A1 AA Half-track

    Improved Platoon Com. Post:
    Lieutenant
    M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team
    M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun
    M1 75mm Pack Howitzer

    Current Company Com. Post
    Captain
    M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun
    M1 75mm Pack Howitzer
    M5A1 Stuart

    Improved Company Com. Post
    Captain
    M20 Utility Car
    M15A1 AA Half-track
    M5A1 Stuart

    Right now USF is awkward to play with how the support weapons and light vehicles are all jumbled up togethe., Making the Lieutenant=support weapons and Captain=light vehicles will make USF "flow" better and make the players' tactical options more clear.
  • #20
    3 weeks ago
    ckwxckwx Posts: 1
    edited November 17

    In my opinion, there are two main problems in USF:

    1. Rifleman is not cost-effective. Rifleman cost 280 manpower, but get overwhelmed by VG/Gren which cost 250/240 manpower in early game. Also conscript have the same problem too, so i think this problem is due to VG/Gren is too strong, that is the reason that German players always blob.

    2. The timing of getting Sherman is too late compare to Panzer IV, especially Wehrmacht one. So that USF get overwhelmed by Panzer IV easily in middle game. It force USF player to skip T2 or T3 , in order to meet the timing of Panzer IV. But I think this problem is due to low cost-requirement in getting Panzer IV, especially when German give up some of its side-tech.

  • #21
    3 weeks ago
    az244az244 Cracow, PolandPosts: 6

    In early game only valuable unit is rifleman. And to if you want have an option against both (vehicles and troops) i early game, you need to have lietunant and captain, what costs too much (110 fuel is like 7-th minute of battle, not sure about that). So in my opinion the problem is timings. I early game only riflemans (rear echelon i quite useless until BAR-s to better supress enemy, rifle nades are slow and do very low damage in category of nades), in mid you have to choose: anti-troops (Platoon Command Post) or anti-tanks (Platoon Command Post), and if you want to have both there will be problem with timing of your medium tanks (enemy will be faster). Effect is that my only wins with USF are in late game.

  • #22
    3 weeks ago

    I personaly would like to see the mainline Infantry of USF (Rifelman, Lt., Cap.) geting a reduction in cost from 280 MP to something like 250 MP or even less. The reason is that I still dont understand how rifelman are more expensive but less effective than volksgrenadiers.
    Just a comparison of the 2 Units:

    Volkgrenadiere:

    • Cost 250 MP
    • have a panzerfaust from the get go
    • can throw a flamegrenade without an extra upgrade
    • can equipe 2 StG44 for 60 Mun (while in the field)

    Rifelman

    • Cost 280 MP
    • need vet 1 for a AT grenade
    • need a costly uprade for underperforming grenades
    • only get weapon upgrades in base and for 120 Mun total
  • #23
    3 weeks ago

    For me seems pretty fine, we usually waste a lot of fuel on both tiers beacose we really need the MG and the AT cannon, so with this mod we can get both without delaying our armor so much

  • #24
    3 weeks ago
    mrpeedmrpeed Posts: 7
    edited November 19

    The system would be better as it would allow easier access to .50 cal and AT guns, though it seems kind of awkward. The main problem though is that you absolutely need the .50 cal given the current state of Axis infantry, especially Volks (at least in 2v2).

    What I would like:

    Platoon Command Post:
    Lieutenant (comes with bar, 4 man squad)
    .50 cal HMG
    AT Gun
    Mortar HT (crew comes with bazooka?)

    Company Command Post
    Captain (comes with bazooka, 4 man squad)
    Greyhound (can lay mines, has Stuart stun shots, comes with skirts, can upgrade with .50 cal)
    AA HT (crew comes with bazooka?)
    Pack Howitzer (HE barrage now comes at vet 0, white phosphorus is unlocked at vet 2)

    Captain and Lieutenant can be made into smaller squads for a more supporting role. Maybe give them some new support oriented abilities? Maybe have them require a purchase? Also, they should lose their second weapon slot.

    Remove t0 mortar and give riflemen grenades by default. And add AT grenades to the grenade package at the HQ so it's more of a support upgrade.

    I just feel like the whole structure of USF is in need of a rework. Something needs to be done about Axis infantry though, that's what's really killing USF.

  • #25
    3 weeks ago
    BizrockBizrock Posts: 3

    @Vipper said:
    If you are going to go down this road, I would suggest to simply remove the "free" officer feature. Officer could become buy able or promoted from infantry in the tend by removing the infantry from the map and bring in an officer for the difference in cost.

    That would make USF easier to balance, would allow some use for unwanted vehicles crew, and would burden users with officers that might be unwanted.

    The suggestion of being able to promote an infantry to LT/CPT/MJ would fix a lot of issues, open for even more strategies and openings and reduce the natural blob effect of USF nowadays.

  • #26
    3 weeks ago

    @Bizrock said:
    >

    and reduce the natural blob effect of USF nowadays.

    This is very prevelant in 1v1's. I don't bother with kubel anymore because you'll just get overwhelmed with infantry.

  • #27
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196

    Its funny that they remove the bar on Lieutenant where OKW starting unit is Sturmmpioneer which will need to take on 1-2 Rifleman and Rear Echelon to push back and in a green cover at the start of the game.

    Lieutenant

    -BAR removed; can be purchased for 60 munitions. BAR on an earlier LT was seen as too powerful.

  • #28
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 95

    The original Volk didnt have any assault upgrade package, US Lieu/Cap step out to the field with fully upgraded Bars & Bazooka. Which make USF dominate the game at the mark 5-7mins

    Today Volk can upgrade Stg44 package while Lieu/Cap step out to the field with a single Thompson. I miss their description "Lieu & Cap are Heavily armed squads". I think the balance team should remove the Thompson so Lieu & Cap dont lost their 20% firepower at mid range.

    Early game USF is hopeless against Okw
    Early-mid USF has no answer to infantry spam if we go Cap tech, no answer to luch/puma if we go Lieu tech.
    Mid game slightly lost because Sherman & Okw Panzer4 come to the field at the same time
    Late game King tiger.

    I really think at least give Lieu/Cap upgrade ability to fully 2 Bars/2 Zook with 100 / 90 ammo. So at least we have a relied early mid game squad without paying 15fuel for weaponrack.

  • #29
    3 weeks ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 196

    Even with the upcoming changes USF Full tech still 3-5mins fuel behind specially when they get ambulance.

  • #30
    3 weeks ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,683

    @C3Tooth said:
    ...I think the balance team should remove the Thompson so Lieu & Cap dont lost their 20% firepower at mid range.

    Thompson does not follow normal smg profile it superior to M1 up to range of 19. Removing the Thompson will be more of nerf to officers.

  • #31
    3 weeks ago
    IAMTONYIAMTONY Posts: 1

    I have played over 1800 matches as USF i only play as USF...... MERICA! i think this gives me a view some do not have. some of the changes purposed in this update are good in my view but most seems like a step in the wrong direction this update and Some of the comments above seem from my perspective to come from people who do not play A LOT as USF. I think that there are some things that need to be changed for all factions not just USF they are as follows all factions should have access to machine gun teams at tier 1, all factions should have a sniper and all factions engineer unit should have access to anti personnel mine's and anti vehicle mines, plant demo charges, build sand bags, lay barbed wire build bunkers, trenches and be able to be upgraded with flame throwers these are tools every faction needs for more balanced game play that being said this patch is trying to fix some things that are not broken splitting the tech into 1\1.5\2\2.5 is not the way to solve the problem's USF has which are many and i will list in detail here

    -#1 -rear echelon need a dps increase to be brought inline with other factions engineers

    -#2-M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team needs to removed form tier 2 and moved to tier 1

    -#3 -bazooka needs small damage boost or armor pen boost and a cost increase

    -#4 -AT-gun needs to be moved to tier 1 but locked until Lieutenant or captain is deployed also AT-gun needs damage increase and need to be able to engage infantry more effectively its armor piercing ability needs to be unlocked when when grenades get unlocked for infantry

    -#5-m36-Jackson tank destroyer needs more accuracy and need to be better able to engage infantry its armor/health or front armor increased


    1-expanded: rear echelon have weak dps they need a little boost give them same dps as Assault engineer they also need to be able to lay anti personnel mine's(m5 mines, modified m6 mines or something akin to the German s-mine field ) and anti vehicle mines(m6 mines or m5 mines), plant demo charges, build sand bags, bunkers, trenches. lay barbed wire and be able to be upgraded with flame throwers also remove the useless mine ability they have atm it is the worst!

    2-expanded: M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team needs to removed form tier 2 and moved to tier 1 - this will allow for different opening strategy and make american less infantry heavy in the early and late game

    3-expanded: bazooka needs small damage boost or armor pen boost and a cost increase- bazooka is really under powered late game and somewhat under powered at fighting tier 2-and tier 3 German tanks i think the bazooka should be feared just a lil bit by German tanks because right now only the lightest of German tanks\vehicles really fear a infantry unit

    with 2 bazookas

    4 -expanded:AT-gun needs to be moved to tier 1 but locked until Lieutenant or captain is deployed AT-gun needs a damage increase and need to be able to engage infantry more effectively

    USF can have trouble dealing with tier 2 axis light tanks without going tier 3 and getting AT-gun or getting bazookas both of which are under powered this forces u to skip the Lieutenant tech tree because if you go lieutenant there are not really any good counters to most tier 2 axis light tanks so u go captain for the AT-gun but now u have no Machine Gun and u have to spam infantry to hold ground(AKA-blobbing)until u can push out a tank because if u don't late game German tanks are gonna shred u and the AT-gun is really under powered so u have to catch enemy tanks out of position witch is all good in theory but against a reasonably good player it will be hard to finish off a tank with at-gun being so weak also having to choose between AT-gun or machine gun sucks u cant get both because if u do u will not have a tank on the field when the German tanks start rolling in.It forces USF players to play the same way over and over by adding MG and AT-gun earlier and by increasing AT-gun damage u give the USF player all the tools he needs to defend late game and by having those tools will be able to play many different ways without felling impeded

    5-expanded:m36-Jackson tank destroyer needs more accuracy and need to be better able to engage infantry its armor/health or front armor increased this tank is really not bad is a little bit inaccurate for a sniper tank but is completely useless against infantry maybe it needs a machine gun upgrade or a high explosive anti infantry shell so it can defend itself from infantry but really need Armour/health boost


    THINGS I LIKED ABOUT UPDATE

    1-Lieutenant-BAR removed; can be purchased for 60 munitions. BAR on an earlier LT was seen as too powerful.

    2-Grenade Unlock Currently not an attractive choice for current cost.-Fuel Cost from 25 to 15

    THINGS I REALLY DID NOT LIKE

    1#scout car coming later being less accurate is just not good the scout car is all ready really weak aside from the fact that it comes out early and help's u deal with infantry and mg spam having it come out later is just gonna make it less desirable a go to then it all ready is it really does not scale well late game besides the mine on it is really good but i think the mine ability should be removed and given to rear echelon and replaced with something els or maybe make the mine ability much cheaper than the rear echelon ...i dunno but i do know having it come later is not good

    2#Additionally, the AAHT and Stuart have been swapped to Captain and Lieutenant tiers respectively. i really don't like this for USF i think messing with the timing of builds that have been around since the beginning and are pretty balanced is not good for the faction most of the production timing is right on IF ITS NOT BROKEN DON'T FIX IT!!and u will never see AAHT in a game again because no one gonna go for that over a Stewart tank and the Stewart is a tank that's meant to fight other light tanks that's what its good at AAHT is meant to fight infantry which you'll be facing a lot of at the start of matches no matter what and it does not have a lot of health and it really only use full early game i think it should be left on tier 2

    AND A LOT OF COMMANDERS NEED BIG OVERHAUL BUT THAT'S ANOTHER POST....
    well that's all i got for now lol! please let me know if u feel these changes would be a good addition to this game i really would like to know how USF players feel about the issues iv brought up

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