A thought on OKW teching

#1
1 year ago
Hi all. Me again. Making a thread... Again....
Anyways was doing some thinking about how to liven up faction teching and ensure that everyone has a chance at a comeback should they fail to grab a fuel. An uphill battle of course but some sort of hand hold.
Most recently thinking about the OKW and their interesting truck teching system.
Basicly... With their t0 master tier offering most things they need it got me thinking about accessibility not necessarily being restricted to the tiers themselves

So this is a bit out there so please hear me out

Why not attempt to have trucks unlock a unit based on the number of trucks?
Over on the *other* forum I was playing with the idea of increasing ober access ability and that has led to this

So basically.... Here we go.

T0 to start:
Volks
Sturms
Kuble
Rak

1st truck built
Mg34 unlocked in t0 (I think a truck placed is too long to wait for an MG and possibly leads to the volks spam we see today)
Stick grenade for volks and smoke grenade for sturms unlocked (the flame nade as is is too much quite simply But okw need an answer to garrisons.

Truck 1 placed
MP40s unlocked for volks (replaced by STGs in fire storm, along with flame nades of course) 45mu.
Faust unlocked for volks
Shrek for sturms
Mg42 upgrade for Kuble that allows it to suppress for munitions. Cannot move or Supression ability is canceled and munitions forfeit like the Maxim ability. (something cheap like 30mu because of durability)

Med truck provides:
Leig
Flak trak
Reduces the cost of Sturm med kits by 5mu
Enables self healing for units that self heal at vet.

Medic unlock provides 3 medics on med truck and 2 on t0.

Mech truck provides:
Luchs
Puma
Repair increase with Sturm sweeper
Self repair for kuble
Unlocks salvage on volks and increases yields by 100% for sturms only.

Mechanics upgrade provides 4 mechanics at mech truck and enables sturms to repair critical like USF crews

2nd truck built either med or mech
Obers unlocked in t0
If the OKW player decides to go med truck this can be fairly early, however they run the risk of being over run by enemy light armour with naught but raks to save them. This is a risk factor that I think is missing currently. Obers are ever vulnerable to snipers and of course opens up more lieutenant play from USF.

Placing the 2nd truck deployed enables new options for the first truck as well:

2nd truck unlocks the IR HT in med truck
The IR HT hower has been changed.
It now inflicts a munitions reduction (old Soviet self repair), if turned on BUT inflicts a 10% target size debuff to units while they are being swept as well as revealing as it does now.

2nd truck deployed enables the Jp4 in mech. As a more expensive tier the hard AT option is made availible here, going med then schwere leaves it inaccessible but going mech and schwere or if pressed getting mech and med enables use of this single purpose unit.

3rd truck built unlocks:
Adds an extra model to healers and mechanics
Target size reduction to sturms
Lmg34 for obers

Schwere cheaper (80 fuel?)
Schwere unlocks:
Panzer 4
Walking stuka.

Schwere Upgrade to AA (40 fuel)
Unlocks panther

All 3 trucks+AA upgrade unlocks KT

As always this is a work in progress theory kind of discussion. So let me know what you think about the spirit behind a change like this.

Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    This another approach to OKW aiming at retaining to original design of aggressive truck use that has been lost its strength with the change to FRP.

    Changes to trucks:
    No limit to number of truck
    Buy Cost 100/10
    Set UP cost 50/5

    They set up faster and are less vulnerable during set up. Once set up the about a bit tougher then Ostheer command bunkers.

    Once set up the act as reinforcement point and can built the following units:
    1 truck set up access to Leig
    2 truck set up access to Obers
    3 truck set up access to Puma

    Aim of changes:
    to make aggressive placing of truck a viable option of player while still allowing him easy access to basic tools if he loses 1 truck.

    Leig provide indirect fire support, Obers elite infantry, Puma supports the RW.

    Trucks can then upgrade:
    1) to medic for 50/35 that gives access to 251 variants (AA fuel cost lowered to 40). Once medic truck is unlocked truck HP/armor to 75% of current levels.

    Medic truck can be further upgraded with FRP (100/10) increasing HP/armor to 125% of current. Has aura decreasing reinforcement time by 25% does not heal.

    Aim of changes:
    Make FRP viable but one has to rely on med box for heal. Upgrade add the bonus of a tougher truck.

    2)Mechanized 100/55 gives access to Luch and JP.
    Mechanized truck can be further upgraded (50/10) with engineers increasing HP/armor to 125% of current.

    Aim of changes:
    Gives OKW access to 60 range AT weapon that is affordable and mid game specialized solutions.

    3) Shwerer truck requiring at least 1 truck upgraded (100/75) giving access to Stuka and PZIV 4. Shwerer truck has no gun.
    Shwerer truck can be further upgraded (100/60) that unlocks the Panther and gives the truck the gun. (Gun can use be aimed and has to use a 30 munition ability to engage aircraft).

    Aim of changes:
    Early access to medium and support vehicles. More tools to better time Panthers.

    Once any truck is upgrade medic spawn in base truck.
    Aim of changes:
    OKW have access to heal while medic boxs remain an option for FRP.

    Building a truck unlock Faust and grenades for SP.
    Setting up a truck unlock the rest of grenades.
    Upgrading all 3 truck gives access to ST44.

    KT requires all tech unlock and is limited to 1 per Shwerer truck.

    Other option for truck:
    Truck in sector can be upgraded to gives access to a timed that increases (or decrease if enemy capture it) sector income at the cost of manpower.

    Changes to units:
    1)Now starting unit. VG flame-grenade replaced with a sort range explosive grenade. The grenade is a primary defensive weapon with 60 damage that adds suppression (close to 60% of suppress threshold) to target hits. Primary role to stop direct assault from enemy infantries.

    Vet 1 ability "aim fire" cost 10 mu increases accuracy (10%) when stationary.

    ST44 upgrade locked behind 3 truck, gives access to 5 ST44 on semi auto mod decreasing long range DPS but increasing mid to close DPS.(to M1 levels?)

    2) SP 5 men squad armed with MP40. Cost 280 reduced repair speed. Access to flame grenade (pop down to 6-7). Can upgrade with wire Cutters increasing repair speed losing 1 weapon.
    Get the ST44 upgrade with 5 ST44 full auto weapon with squad DPS about the current level.(bit lower close?)

    3) Obers can now upgrade 1+1 shreck, lmg34. The lmg34 get the suppress ability from vet 0 but does all squad suffers accuracy penalties. (suppression increases with veterancy) (HMG34 becomes doctrinal?)

    Ober can upgrade with 4 infrared ST44 about the DPS a SP but get a timed ability that bypass some cover bonuses.

    4)JP redesign as 60 range Stug with a cost around 300/100 and cloaked being replaced by TWP. (cloak can actually be moved to stug). Armored is lowered target size becomes even smaller.

    5)Stukas fires a single incendiary rocket at time.

    Suggested changes are more a direction and numbers might be off.

    The direction aim it one where OKW truck become a important part of the faction. In the same time losing trucks become less punishing since the player still has access to basic tools.

  • #3
    9 months ago
    jakejake Posts: 9

    t3 shweier hq shouldnt take your hard earned fuel away by just 1 click and lose the game cuz of it

  • #4
    9 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @jake said:
    > t3 shweier hq shouldnt take your hard earned fuel away by just 1 click and lose the game cuz of it

    Wut?
  • #5
    9 months ago
    > @jake said:
    > t3 shweier hq shouldnt take your hard earned fuel away by just 1 click and lose the game cuz of it

    If you try to use T4 to hold VP, you should lost it.
  • #6
    9 months ago

    I like the ideas, seems that it would make OKW more versatile. Obersoldaten is something that I harldy use unless I have successfully outsmarted the enemy in the beginning or mid game. I want it to be a unit that is more accessible. Compare it to Shock Troops, it is much more accessible, comes 2CP (although doctrinal), it is a unit that is used most often from the Soviets compared to Obers that are already accessible but it comes too late that there is really no point in getting the unit.

    Currently I do not see OKW as a faction that stands out, it lacks AA although infantry units are a bit more versatile than Wehrmacht but overall they seem to have no real difference except better survivability. I think in terms of access to units and abilities early on, Wehrmacht is better overall. These implementations and ideas would totally change the diversity of the OKW playstyle to being more interesting and more fun.

    It would be nice too if they could gain access to (especially Wehrmacht since there is not a survivability upgrade like british, compensation I would say) Gewehr 41 or 43 as an option instead of Stg44, or access to Mg34. More Diverse Gameplay would be great.

    I would these changes very much too!

  • #7
    8 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Hi all. Me again. Making a thread... Again....
    Anyways was doing some thinking about how to liven up faction teching and ensure that everyone has a chance at a comeback should they fail to grab a fuel. An uphill battle of course but some sort of hand hold.
    Most recently thinking about the OKW and their interesting truck teching system.
    Basicly... With their t0 master tier offering most things they need it got me thinking about accessibility not necessarily being restricted to the tiers themselves

    So this is a bit out there so please hear me out

    Why not attempt to have trucks unlock a unit based on the number of trucks?
    Over on the other forum I was playing with the idea of increasing ober access ability and that has led to this

    So basically.... Here we go.

    T0 to start:
    Volks
    Sturms
    Kuble
    Rak

    1st truck built
    Mg34 unlocked in t0 (I think a truck placed is too long to wait for an MG and possibly leads to the volks spam we see today)
    Stick grenade for volks and smoke grenade for sturms unlocked (the flame nade as is is too much quite simply But okw need an answer to garrisons.

    Truck 1 placed
    MP40s unlocked for volks (replaced by STGs in fire storm, along with flame nades of course) 45mu.
    Faust unlocked for volks
    Shrek for sturms
    Mg42 upgrade for Kuble that allows it to suppress for munitions. Cannot move or Supression ability is canceled and munitions forfeit like the Maxim ability. (something cheap like 30mu because of durability)

    Med truck provides:
    Leig
    Flak trak
    Reduces the cost of Sturm med kits by 5mu
    Enables self healing for units that self heal at vet.

    Medic unlock provides 3 medics on med truck and 2 on t0.

    Mech truck provides:
    Luchs
    Puma
    Repair increase with Sturm sweeper
    Self repair for kuble
    Unlocks salvage on volks and increases yields by 100% for sturms only.

    Mechanics upgrade provides 4 mechanics at mech truck and enables sturms to repair critical like USF crews

    2nd truck built either med or mech
    Obers unlocked in t0
    If the OKW player decides to go med truck this can be fairly early, however they run the risk of being over run by enemy light armour with naught but raks to save them. This is a risk factor that I think is missing currently. Obers are ever vulnerable to snipers and of course opens up more lieutenant play from USF.

    Placing the 2nd truck deployed enables new options for the first truck as well:

    2nd truck unlocks the IR HT in med truck
    The IR HT hower has been changed.
    It now inflicts a munitions reduction (old Soviet self repair), if turned on BUT inflicts a 10% target size debuff to units while they are being swept as well as revealing as it does now.

    2nd truck deployed enables the Jp4 in mech. As a more expensive tier the hard AT option is made availible here, going med then schwere leaves it inaccessible but going mech and schwere or if pressed getting mech and med enables use of this single purpose unit.

    3rd truck built unlocks:
    Adds an extra model to healers and mechanics
    Target size reduction to sturms
    Lmg34 for obers

    Schwere cheaper (80 fuel?)
    Schwere unlocks:
    Panzer 4
    Walking stuka.

    Schwere Upgrade to AA (40 fuel)
    Unlocks panther

    All 3 trucks+AA upgrade unlocks KT

    As always this is a work in progress theory kind of discussion. So let me know what you think about the spirit behind a change like this.

    I like the idea of every truck that is built, would obtain some minor/additional bonuses. Sounds like a real change in diversity. Teching system idea is great, should increase diversity for more interesting gameplay.

    Kubel does need Revamp, upgrade required. Remove vet 1 Detection for something less OP for more viable combat unit. https://www.coh2.org/topic/88649/kubel-needs-changes. Here are my ideas on changing Kubel, check comment 132. It has to be a combat unit. OKW already has a scouting/reconnaissance unit InfaredHalfTrack , it does not need another.

    Mg34 should come earlier. Do not know if it exactly needs changes but its damage is inferior (the least damage of all HMG), supression also less than MG42 and Vickers and M2HB .50 cal MG. I think it should have better suppression than it currently has at the least. It kind of feels lackluster in some ways. Although many can agree on the fact that it is simply better than Maxim but it does feel it does not perform as it should.

    IR HT, seems like what you have suggested would make it more used than it currently is with a passive ability to debuff enemies target size.

    Increasing Obers accessibility is great. JP4 is a great idea also, suggested that also before. Come earlier serving one purpose, should not be a problem.

    MP40 profile for Volks is generally quite poor, but if they can make changes to perform better than it currently does, it would become a viable choice. Currently, nobody every picks MP40 for Volks due to how it performs overall. It would be good if improvements were made onto it.

    @Vipper said:
    This another approach to OKW aiming at retaining to original design of aggressive truck use that has been lost its strength with the change to FRP.

    Changes to trucks:
    No limit to number of truck
    Buy Cost 100/10
    Set UP cost 50/5

    They set up faster and are less vulnerable during set up. Once set up the about a bit tougher then Ostheer command bunkers.

    Once set up the act as reinforcement point and can built the following units:
    1 truck set up access to Leig
    2 truck set up access to Obers
    3 truck set up access to Puma

    Aim of changes:
    to make aggressive placing of truck a viable option of player while still allowing him easy access to basic tools if he loses 1 truck.

    Leig provide indirect fire support, Obers elite infantry, Puma supports the RW.

    Trucks can then upgrade:
    1) to medic for 50/35 that gives access to 251 variants (AA fuel cost lowered to 40). Once medic truck is unlocked truck HP/armor to 75% of current levels.

    Medic truck can be further upgraded with FRP (100/10) increasing HP/armor to 125% of current. Has aura decreasing reinforcement time by 25% does not heal.

    Aim of changes:
    Make FRP viable but one has to rely on med box for heal. Upgrade add the bonus of a tougher truck.

    2)Mechanized 100/55 gives access to Luch and JP.
    Mechanized truck can be further upgraded (50/10) with engineers increasing HP/armor to 125% of current.

    Aim of changes:
    Gives OKW access to 60 range AT weapon that is affordable and mid game specialized solutions.

    3) Shwerer truck requiring at least 1 truck upgraded (100/75) giving access to Stuka and PZIV 4. Shwerer truck has no gun.
    Shwerer truck can be further upgraded (100/60) that unlocks the Panther and gives the truck the gun. (Gun can use be aimed and has to use a 30 munition ability to engage aircraft).

    Aim of changes:
    Early access to medium and support vehicles. More tools to better time Panthers.

    Once any truck is upgrade medic spawn in base truck.
    Aim of changes:
    OKW have access to heal while medic boxs remain an option for FRP.

    Building a truck unlock Faust and grenades for SP.
    Setting up a truck unlock the rest of grenades.
    Upgrading all 3 truck gives access to ST44.

    KT requires all tech unlock and is limited to 1 per Shwerer truck.

    Other option for truck:
    Truck in sector can be upgraded to gives access to a timed that increases (or decrease if enemy capture it) sector income at the cost of manpower.

    Changes to units:
    1)Now starting unit. VG flame-grenade replaced with a sort range explosive grenade. The grenade is a primary defensive weapon with 60 damage that adds suppression (close to 60% of suppress threshold) to target hits. Primary role to stop direct assault from enemy infantries.

    Vet 1 ability "aim fire" cost 10 mu increases accuracy (10%) when stationary.

    ST44 upgrade locked behind 3 truck, gives access to 5 ST44 on semi auto mod decreasing long range DPS but increasing mid to close DPS.(to M1 levels?)

    2) SP 5 men squad armed with MP40. Cost 280 reduced repair speed. Access to flame grenade (pop down to 6-7). Can upgrade with wire Cutters increasing repair speed losing 1 weapon.
    Get the ST44 upgrade with 5 ST44 full auto weapon with squad DPS about the current level.(bit lower close?)

    3) Obers can now upgrade 1+1 shreck, lmg34. The lmg34 get the suppress ability from vet 0 but does all squad suffers accuracy penalties. (suppression increases with veterancy) (HMG34 becomes doctrinal?)

    Ober can upgrade with 4 infrared ST44 about the DPS a SP but get a timed ability that bypass some cover bonuses.

    4)JP redesign as 60 range Stug with a cost around 300/100 and cloaked being replaced by TWP. (cloak can actually be moved to stug). Armored is lowered target size becomes even smaller.

    5)Stukas fires a single incendiary rocket at time.

    Suggested changes are more a direction and numbers might be off.

    The direction aim it one where OKW truck become a important part of the faction. In the same time losing trucks become less punishing since the player still has access to basic tools.

    Increasing the strength of a HQs sounds like a good idea, currently, allies can just pop Arty abilities effortlessly which can be considered unfair in that sense. Since there is no other faction having to place their HQs forward in order to maintain aggression. Would be nice if it had the option to redeploy, decide to move the base either forward or backward. Depending on the players decision would be great.

    Truck set up access sound like a very interesting diverse change.

    What is FRP?

    If med truck truck does allow aura heal/ healing, med kit would have to cost 30 ammo instead as they would be the only faction to consistently purchase med kits!

    I agree with the HQ ideas though. I like when a HQ is upgraded, base HQ gain med guys.

    OKW Trucks that can become in a form of a caches sounds interesting too, which means they would be more costy overall!

    Giving OKW access to AT weaponry for longer ranges is important especially late game. AT weaponry late game is lacking. Mid game specialised solution sounds interesting too.

    The Volks idea, so they only be able to get STG when all the bases are set up or when you have built some truks and set them up? To make it more clear, do you have build all 3 trucks to med, mech, and panzer in order to get upgrade or can you instead have some trucks built but one or two that you have recurited but have not built a HQs yet still gives you access to STG upgrades?

    Would it not put them in some sort of disadvantage if they do not have the upgrades to gain access to weapon upgrades early and mid game. At least it would not force them is some way to heavily rely on Volks early as it currently is, instead some other units to blend in also.

    I like the different performances with STGs when you get earlier compared to later.

    Obers changes sounds interesting and its access to suppression vet 0.

    HMG becomes doctrinal is interesting. Kubel should be the HMG as it was in some ways but has to be upgraded 45-60 munitions in order to so. Upgrade should come only after when a HQ is built. So it means it can become HMG after when a HQ is built, should be a mobile MG early as it is unfair as it was back then. Sounds fair, put it back as it was but the effect should not come early. Kubel currently is a choice hardly anyone picks since it is only useful early. Change vet also. It has to be a combat unit as it initially was. Kubel idea for it as it currently is as a recon unit was not really thought through. IR HT is the unit, not Kubel, Kubel should be AI unit.

    Lots of good and interesting ideas from both Vipper and thedarkarmadillo.

  • #8
    8 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Balanced_Gamer said:

    ...Lots of good and interesting ideas from both Vipper and thedarkarmadillo.

    Thanks

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