[OKW][ALL] 221 is too weak for its 20 fuel cost

#1
8 months ago
addvaluejackaddvaluej… Posts: 44
edited December 2018 in Balance Feedback
For combat: 221 will lose to Universal Carrier and M3. 221’s mg lacks penetration. I have tested in cheat mode.

For utility: 221 can drop medic, but can’t carry infantry. Universal Carrier and M3 can carry infantry. It is useful for vehicles which can’t capture. I think 221 has same utility as other early vehicles.

For cost: Here is the problem. 221 is much more expensive than other early vehicles.

My suggestions for balance adjustment:
1. Reduce 221’s fuel cost by 10, but increase 223 upgrade’s fuel cost by 10.
2. Incease its mg’s penetration, so it will perform better against other early vehicles.

Comments

  • #2
    8 months ago
    Dropping it by 10 might be a bit much, I would like to try for 5 and see where that goes. Slightly increased armour or pen as well would be a nice addition
  • #3
    8 months ago
    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > Dropping it by 10 might be a bit much, I would like to try for 5 and see where that goes. Slightly increased armour or pen as well would be a nice addition
    5 looks like a good start.

    Increase armour will make it too good against infantry.
  • #4
    8 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,020

    The utility you get from it is quite strong, and it has shared veterancy. I'd leave it be for now and see what shakes out.

  • #5
    8 months ago

    @Lazarus said:
    The utility you get from it is quite strong, and it has shared veterancy. I'd leave it be for now and see what shakes out.

    223 has rather powerful utility, signal relay and lock down. But 221 can only dispatch medic.

  • #6
    8 months ago
    > @Lazarus said:
    > The utility you get from it is quite strong, and it has shared veterancy. I'd leave it be for now and see what shakes out.

    I have yet to see a 221 (or 223) past the 3rd level of vet. Even in the preview when I was testing the sturmtiger I set up a comp stomp on sittard. Sitting beside the bridge THE ENTIRE game it got to vet 3.

    Also the utility from the 221 is nothing unique. The 223 yes, the 221 no. I would consider self healing and transport capability to be greater utility than dropping a med kit, especially in a faction who's starting unit can drop 3 medkits and has infantry that can self heal and has the med truck. If the medkit was on the Soviet I would agree it's a great boon, on the OKW its chaff. It requires a minimum of 40 fuel to get on field but loses to the bren and the m3a1. It's not fine....
  • #7
    8 months ago

    I created some videos to support my views.

  • #8
    8 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,605

    Disclaimer:
    The above works exclusively if your top micro extend is attack move.

    If you need to be explained how turreted vehicles autowin vs non turreted ones of same range, you shouldn't be anywhere near balance discussions.

  • #9
    8 months ago
    addvaluejackaddvaluej… Posts: 44
    edited December 2018

    @Katitof said:
    Disclaimer:
    The above works exclusively if your top micro extend is attack move.

    If you need to be explained how turreted vehicles autowin vs non turreted ones of same range, you shouldn't be anywhere near balance discussions.

    So you are assuming that OKW player will micro like circling around M3, but SOV player will do nothing?

    If you are assuming that there is always enough space for 221 flanking, I think I can assuming there is always enough space for M3 reversing.

    For reference:

    Sorry, I can't test with M3 micro. But according to the video, 221 can not out run M3 while M3 is reversing. So if both players are microing, 221 will lose to M3.

  • #10
    8 months ago
    Trying to get beside the M3a1 could end up worse off for the 221 as it's just as easy to then swing the rear MG which has higher pen on it and peace out.
  • #11
    8 months ago
    > @Katitof said:
    > If you need to be explained how turreted vehicles autowin vs non turreted ones of same range, you shouldn't be anywhere near balance discussions.

    How many turreted vehicles have a rear turret? I don't think the 221 needs much help, but if you're gonna tell somebody off like that at least have a good point.
  • #12
    8 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,605

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    > @Katitof said:
    > If you need to be explained how turreted vehicles autowin vs non turreted ones of same range, you shouldn't be anywhere near balance discussions.

    How many turreted vehicles have a rear turret? I don't think the 221 needs much help, but if you're gonna tell somebody off like that at least have a good point.

    You don't need to sit on tail you know, being against side works just as well.

  • #13
    8 months ago

    @Katitof said:
    You don't need to sit on tail you know, being against side works just as well.

    And how braindead is the person with the clown car? Your the one who started us off on how the examples above only apply to people with bad micro.

  • #14
    8 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,020
    > @Katitof said:
    > @SkysTheLimit said:
    > > @Katitof said:
    > > If you need to be explained how turreted vehicles autowin vs non turreted ones of same range, you shouldn't be anywhere near balance discussions.
    >
    > How many turreted vehicles have a rear turret? I don't think the 221 needs much help, but if you're gonna tell somebody off like that at least have a good point.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You don't need to sit on tail you know, being against side works just as well.

    Factually incorrect. Being against the side works better than sitting against the tail. They're no where near the same.

    At your level you may not notice the difference but I assure you all the top players and their dogs (their dogs have a steam family account so they can play too) know this.
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