Wehrmacht needs Changes! Panzergrenadiers, Bugs and more

#1
3 weeks ago
Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 12
edited January 23 in General Discussion

There are some bugs from what I realised on my tests and things which requires certain changes.

Please do take the time to read this as you can see the effort I have placed into writing this discussion.

Greandiers Mg42 takes huge breaks from shooting, it should be more consistent as other factions. Do not know why it is a thing but it is there if you look closely. takes brakes sometimes 2-4 seconds between bursts (it should not be thing). Does not require a buff but a fix or adjustment.

Panzergreandiers,
How long has it been since Panzergrenadiers got a buff. It lacks the ability to perform at its current price. Sturmpiooners in comparison is 300, and has the ability to perform many things at once compared to a single bundle grenade. The fact that Panzergreandiers costs 340 and the fact it lacks the ability to engage head on against infantry due to being a too fragile unit makes it the least cost effective unit. I have done tests and Panzergreandiers overall are ineffective against infantry, but good against vehicles which in addition costs extra 100 munitions in order to make it effective thus making Pak40 a more reasonable cost effective option. Due to recent changes made in the game with mortar, sniper and vehicles currently demoted the OH overall effectiveness.

This game is fantastic and the most fun RTS game in my opinion but the fact that there is some things that are unbalanced, I believe it requires a few changes. Reasons why...
1. Drop like flies, has worse received accuracy than Grenadiers & Piooners
2. Cost and Effectiveness do not match, should decrease price around 300
3. Lacks abilities for its price, should maybe have a repair kit or tactical advancement to make more interesting and effective option or something else
4. Reload animation takes longer than Shock Troops and Sturmpiooner (creating DPS gap) which is wierd considering its price and its purpose.

Stug, yes it has been nerfed and I disagree with the change as it is always now flanked due to it not being a threat as it used to be. T34 was meant to flank by surprise and now it can just go head against it like as if it were nothing because of the fact it has lower health than T34 and has a slow firerate. It is not even good against Infantry and in my opinion, useless.

I believe Ostheer requires some changes and buffs especially to squad size. Why not have by default like what the British Faction has to upgrade from a 4 man squad to a 5 man squad to make it more durable without the need of a General. If changes are not to be made, at least tweak the price around 300 to make it a choice for a more diverse gameplay and a viable option.

Ostwinds, main gun currently sucks and appears to be worse than OKWs Ostwind which perform more consistently with its shots. Change that plz to the way OKW Ostwind performs. Who uses that anyway?

Squad size making it the lowest Squads HP faction in game, and the fact that the DPS does not make up to its lacking health. Should be more consistent in damage and accuracy.

OR

I suggest a "bolster squad package" like the British faction where you can upgrade the squad size to 5 men would simply make it a more flexible unit and prevent it from being killed from 1 grenade easily or from a tank shot.

Ostruppen should increase damage from 8 to 10. To match Panzerfusiliers K98 damage wise. After all Ostruppen are only good in cover, so it would not be a big deal having this change. If this seems too OP, then change price to 220 and resupply from 16 to 18 to come along with the change. The Damage should not be that low for a K98. It is not a necessary change but it would be a good one.

Aftermath of Patch Release.
Currently now after the Patch in accordance to the changes made with vehicles, mortar and sniper has totally decreased Wehrmachts overall survivability. Not that I disagree with the changes, but it has unfortunately decreased Wehrmacts overall performance. I believe these changes can improve OH state and its current condition. Should be decent against Infantry and not only against vehicles. It feels so much harder to play as they lack the units to perform the way they should against Infantry.

Lists of Units that are useless and under-performing in Wehrmacht.

  1. Panzergrenadiers. Expensive, has low performance, low health. Not worth it. Lack abilities, everything. Has highest received accuracy compared to all other Wehrmacht units. They die even the fastest. Do not take them
  2. SdKfz 251 Halftrack (it has good damage but it is too vulnerable, little health, low armour and overall too risky for a flame upgrade). I should not be too vulnerable to Small Arms Fire
  3. SdKfz 222 Scout Car (does not do enough damage against infantry), the main 20mm gun does not perform like other 20mm variants in the game. It under-performs by a huge margin
  4. Stun Ability for Pak40 and Stug. Does 80 damage and hardly stuns the enemy tank. Waste of ammo and has no real effect
  5. Stug. Manoeuvrability is terrible and slow. Fire rate slow, Health low. Useless both against Infantry and tanks. I would rather have a T34 since it is better in all areas. Not worth the cost and performance
  6. Ostwind. Misses 2/3 shots most of the time, taking the opportunity away of doing the utmost damage. Out of all Anti Air Vehicles, this has the worst accuracy, DPS and consistency.
  7. Panzer IV. It is good but not that good, it is terrible. Costs 120 fuel and 350 manpower. It does not do as well as T34 against Infantry and it has worse statistics.
  8. Stormtroopers. Every since they go MP40, they perform terrible in comparison as to when they had STG44. The Tactical Advance had a purpose before but now it is pure suicide when using that ability. It misses and you just soak damage more than necessary.
  9. Mortar has same speed as any other mortar and that kills the purpose of using this mortar as it should be the fastest in game due to how low damage the mortar inflicts.
  10. Grenadier MG42 Upgrade, does not live up to expectation when it pauses and misses most of the time. G43 upgrade is more efficient, consistent and cost effective. Better take that instead.
  11. Snipers aim time takes too long, Expensive and risky, possibly not worth using against Soviets as they have 6 man squad that can soak up damage compared to a four man squad. Can be countered easily with m3a1 scout car with troops on top of it. Although you are supposed to have support with the sniper, the problem is most of the time your grenadiers would be retreating due to how much damage it took causing the sniper to be vulnerable.

Evidence for Survivability and difficulties to counter the enemy from Pro Player VonIvan playing as Wehrmacht

Starts 01:40:40 Ends around 02:09:25

His Reasons
He gives his reasons why he cant counter and the difficulties as playing Wehrmacht. He only, and relies mostly upon Grenadiers during this gameplay since it is the best option to go for. Due to lack of Units to counter due to the lacking performance. You will see why!

Got to around 02:09:30

Most of his streams as Axis, he plays OKW since it has units that are more consistent and more durable. You can see in the video, that he retreats his units most of the time and some of them just do not last long. They lack firepower, consistency and durability. Check for Grenadier MG42 pauses. :o

In Conclusion, I believe that prices tagged on certain units should live up to their expectations and should not be considered or rendered as useless. Units that are Hardly used such as those mentioned above is due to the lack of performance and expectations. I believe that the all base units especially in other factions should live up to it also and I feel these changes (mostly Pzgrens and Ostwind since are the leaset used) are the utmost necessary to make it a more balanced and smoother, diverse gameplay for the Ostheer without only relying upon Grenadiers. To make and have more choices for a more diverse Gameplay.

Also, Wehrmacht lacks many things in many ways. It lacks Firepower and lacks durability. I do not know why on earth they are garbage only until you get Panthers (which is only useful against tanks and having great armour) but that is only when until if you survive end game. Every time in the beginning of the game when playing OH, once your squad lost 2 infantry often the best option is to retreat because if you retreat with one guy left, there is high chance you will lose the squad. This the faction that I believe retreats the most, Early and Mid Game. I usually play OKW since they actually work. No problems, just fine challenging but not as exhausting as playing Wehrmacht when you do not have many choices to pick from. They should add StugE it is the only anti infantry vehicle that actually works and is durable, for 2nd tier base or 2nd Battle Phase. Only available to only two Generals.

After all the soviets have 6 man squads and others with 4/ mostly 5 man squads.

A bit off topic. I do not believe Wehrmacht to be the only faction that needs fixes or adjustments. It just lacks the capacity to engage Infantry Combat which requires certain buffs and adjustments. Allied Factions I believe for Anti-Tank capabilities to be improved especially among USF and British Forces as they lack the ability to counter Medium/Strong Tanks. Soviets are perfectly versatile in Both Anti- Infantry and Tank. Soviets do not need that much change, maybe something to deal with (nerf some received accuracy since they are six man squad for Shock Troops ) Shocks Troops and Guard Rifles Blobs mostly Guard Rifles since their PTRD does 27 damage on an Infantry unit which is crazy and surprisingly accurate. Shreds both vehicles and infantry.

Tell me what you guys think? Thank you for your time :D

Comments

  • #2
    2 weeks ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 364
    I agree. See my post history where i listed plenty of examples Wehr has been patched out to hell. Alllies units are either having hard counters to Wehr, or having higher performance per cost. While Wehr have general counter.

    Wehr the 'reference' faction, sure, meaning it has the worst unit composition out now

    Cite one thing about the p.faust, allies player complain about its homing capability, but did we forget it has the slowest fire time, if the soldier was killed before firing, the animation gets transferred to the next unit and restart all over! Grens also move slower. This was acceptable, until allies infantry got buffed with INSTANT tank snares! So now, you have allies tanks, generally faster, able to move further away from AT before getting snared, while Wehr tanks gets faster snared inside the allies AT zone, and since allies TD also now have range and penetration advantage, you see the results why i call wehr weakest armour now.

    Stug definitely needs a buff back. You see my topic listing allies armour have higher armor and hp values now. Wehr is forced to rely heavily on panther to damage those heavy tanks. However panther armour is so nerfed now, even a t34/cromwell supporting those heavy can seriously damage the expensive panther.

    Gren and Pgren definitely needs a RA buff, 4 man squad should be harder to hit, but they fall like toy soldiers until vet3, which is too long. And yes the LMG reload bug is another case where it was less noticeable before allies got their buff.

    And yes 222 armor car is poorer in dealing with weapon teams than usf armor car and t70. It needs some deterrence buff against stronger allies infantry.

    Not the last, but relic seriously need to look at usf mortar carriage, that thing is a longer range vet3 leig gun mounted ontop a stuart, totally unplayable in 2v2 and above.
  • #3
    2 weeks ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 364
    edited February 2
    Wehr now is like the totally average kid, while allies factions are patched to hard counter wehr at every turn of a match, they are the cool kids with higher talents while only slightly under developed capabilities compare to average kid Wehr.

    I just watched tightrope recent 2v2 cast, and noticed Soviet call in arty does 3 bombing pass onto the okw hq, destroying it. Another thing to look into allies arty,call in or both. Wehr strength in locking down sector is hard countered with so many allies arty, zisgun that auto target with speed on bunkers, while its opposite for wehr have hard time displacing allies 6 man teams and/or brit emplacement.

    All three allies faction have uncounterable bombing runs. Stuka cas and dive bomb pales in comparison. Only recently the okw sector arty helps
  • #4
    6 days ago

    It is just ridiculous. Wehrmacht is the only faction to have every single troop with 4 units.

    The way I see it, the only way Wehrmacht now stands a chance against any good allied player (infantry that stands out way better than ostheer by survivability and DPS is by using the "German Infantry Doctrine", it is seriously what Wehrmacht needs by default. Exclude Veteran Squads but instead have by Default "Bolster Infantry Squads" like the British does. It would be fair and square since Wehrmacht lacks both infantry and vehicle capabilities (better in terms of AT, but the worst faction at AI). There are hardly nay proper counters due to the fact that many units available underpeform.

    "Comparison"

    If you compare the Brits to Wehr. The Brits are 2 to 3 times better in every way. Core infantry for Brits (coolest in the game in my opinion) although costs 280 manpower, for its price it is worth it since it is really great behind cover, has an increase in rate of fire and increase in accuracy, best core infantry in game, does equivalent damage as Grenadiers but performs way better, deadlier firepower but lacks AT. Overall the Brit Unit stand outs way more than Grenadiers especially when it has AT.

    Abiltiy to upgrade to a 5 man squad costs "150 manpower and 35 fuel" worth the investment, I think by default also for the Wehrmacht is something which they totally without the requirement of a general because it lacks completely infantry capabilities and durability. Squad wipes are more likely to happen to Wehr because 4 man against many allied vehicles that has proper anti infantry capabilities which Wehrmacht totally lacks.

    Panther is to some degree useless and the fact that it is the tank you MUST have in order to combat enemy tank which are heavier such as Churchill heavy tank (can get more than one) is a best both against infantry and vehicles having also the best health in game. Comet a counterpart of Panther which has more supportive abilities, great against infantry which Panther totally lacks. Plus the comet ahs a grenade for 20 ammo to deal with a anti/tank gun quickly in order to finish them off.

    In order to get something that goes up against both vehicles and infantry would be the PanzerIV but when a Churchill comes, it is utterly useless. PanzerIV sucks for its price "350 manpower and 120 fuel", it is just not as good as T34 or Sherman. I usually dont use "Support Armour Corps" because I know they are all useless and not worth their price unless i have no other choice, PanzerIV is really the only acceptable choice. Stug and Ostwind sucks in performane for their costs since they were all nerfed. Usually I just skip it for the "Heavy Panzer Korps" because it is real deal and the only thing that I can use to counter Tanks and possibly infantry as Wehrmacht.

    Wehrmacht is the worst faction in game because they are usually bad in the beginning and the long run.

    List of Units that Underperform

    1. Mortar.: It is simply the worst mortar (especially USF motar )in game because it has the same fire-rate as any other but it lacks damage and accuracy compared to any mortar in game. Simply not worth using, takes only 3 guys to kill before it is taken. Takes too long to time to aim, to deploy, to rotate, to reload, it is simply ridiculous for it being the so called light motar.

    2. SdKfz 251 Halftrack. It is great with flamethrower, but considering the upgrade to be costy and risky due to the fact it does get any health boost which is what it need for something costs additionally 90 ammo.

    3. Panzergreandiers. Lacks durability, that is the only problem I have with them. They just die too easy. Lacks abilities for its price. Penals in comparison is better and has passive abilities. Panzergrenadier for its cost does not perform as it should. Should get the ability to upgrade "Support Package" which makes it unique unit worth purchasing. At its current state. It is a NO, NO. Not worst but underpeforms.

    4. Sniper. Shoots as fast the British Sniper but Russian is slower. Relic please look into this.

    5. STUG. Underpeforms for its price, only worth when it is Vet 2,3. Lacks rate of fire, health lower than PanzerIV and T34, manoeuvrability sucks.

    6. OSTWIND. Terrible, nobody uses it, it is evident, rate of fire, aim , scatter, reload, damage is simply just horrible.

    7. BRUMMBAR . Great but simply needs an aim fix against vehicles. It always seems to shoot in front of the vehicle, can not recall any other vehicle in game doing this. Fix that, because I believe it to capable against medium tanks and it should be able to do so.

    Give simply first a Bolster Squad as a first step towards improving Wehrmacht.

    PLZ fix Wehrmact

  • #5
    6 days ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 155

    When im in a 3v3 4v4 game, Im happier to see there are 3 Ost players than 3 Okw players. Because Ost is easier to fight.

    Sturm itself is better than Pion for a starting unit. Volk can soak damage and have better utility than Gren. Obersodaten can destroy Riflemen with a Bar and a M1919, they can sprint at vet5, they come to the battle field from PanzerHQ from the middle of the map not from the base; those thing PanzerGren can not do.

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