Soviet New Commander Proposals I Like

#1
1 week ago
PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 267

It has taken some time but, here are the Soviet new commander proposals that I like. Note: this is just my opinion. Please don't take exception if your proposal isn't here. It will most likely be because you didn't follow the rules.

On that note, here are a few rules of my own:

Rule 1: You've got to follow the rules. If it violates the guidelines, it's out. The exception is the "One proposal per player" rule, which only exists to keep the number of proposals to a minimum. Given how many proposals are voided for violating the "No new units or abilities" rule, there are a lot less proposals to consider.

Rule 2: Transfers of units and abilities between factions are limited to the side they were on. Allied units and abilities can only be transferred to another Allied faction; The same applies between the Axis Factions. The exception is captured vehicles. This is a historically legitimate practice and requires no new units to be created.

Rule 3: I have not included my own proposals.

Additional Notes: As with the other factions, the Soviet New Commander thread contains many new ideas, some being quite interesting. The flip side of this is that many proposals contain new units and/or abilities so, those suggestions are ruled out of consideration for this review. One or two new ideas may still be considered by the developers, if they received a lot of support from the players, but I wouldn't count on seeing any of them when the new commander finally arrives. Unlike other factions, there is only one dominant theme in the Soviet proposals: doctrines which support a blobby, infantry-spamming, human-wave style of play. Although I don't find this style of play appealing, it seems very popular with other players of this faction. If this is a popularity contest, then this type of doctrine will win easily. However, I hope the developers choose something a little more balanced because, I have no desire to add such a doctrine to my pool of commanders. I don't envy their task because, whichever way they go, they risk alienating a significant number of players.

So, here are the proposals that meet the guidelines and which I find interesting:

Motorized Support Tactics

(0 CP) KV-1 Heavy Tank
(0 CP) ZIS-6 Transport Truck (Available from the Support Weapons Kompaneya)
(2 CP) DSHK 38 Heavy Machine Gun
(2 CP) Commissar Command Squad
(3 CP) Conscript Assault Package Upgrade

This proposal aims to improve early game play at the expense of not having any late game options. The KV, the dushka and the Commissar squad have enough utility to last throughout the game but, the lack of any artillery or air support will make this doctrine unappealing for a 1v1 game. The truck is a bit strange, given the availability of other Soviet transport options. I would have gone with a cargo truck; increasing the rates for resource points might allow a player to gain a large enough advantage early on that the lack of late game options never becomes a problem. I'd like to see this idea play-tested to see if it could work on its own but, I think it will probably be best suited to team games.

~

Deep Battle Tactics

(0 CP) T-34/85
(6 CP) Rapid Conscription
(6 CP) For Mother Russia
(8 CP) ML-20
(12 CP) IL-2 Sturmovik

This suggestion leans in the opposite direction, aimed squarely at the mid-to-late game. It is both coherent and well-named. It offers abilities that support large scale infantry engagements, heavy artillery & air support to destroy enemy forces and a good tank for rapid exploitation towards the enemy's base. This commander is consistent with Soviet tactics and fits nicely in the Soviet roster. It looks like it would suit multiple scenarios and all types of games. It is definitely worthy of consideration.

~

NKVD Rifle Infantry Tactics

(2 CP) Commissar Command Squad
(3 CP) Conscript Assault Package Upgrade
(5 CP) M5 Half-track Assault Group
(6 CP) For Mother Russia
(8 CP) ML-20

This proposal is crafted to improve Soviet infantry. Assault Guards, PPSh-packing conscripts and a Commissar squad will certainly make for some lively play, especially when they are all fired up for Mother Russia. Heavy artillery provides some late-game grunt but, the lack of any heavy tanks will make late game assaults difficult under this doctrine. It might be better suited to team games or to players who are well-versed in infantry tactics.

~

Conscript Frontal Assault Tactics

2 CP - DShK heavy machine gun
3 CP - Conscript AT package
3 CP - Conscript Assault package
4 CP - Recon plane
12 CP - IL-2 bombing run

Here is another infantry-oriented proposal, this time dedicated to conscripts. The dushka and the air-support will help but, I find this idea a little bit unbalanced. There are no tanks or artillery, no buffs or logistic support, and the bombing run doesn't come until the mid-game. It might work in a team game but, there's really not much chance we'll see this doctrine chosen. Having 2 conscript upgrades under the same commander seems to go against the structure of the faction. I can't see the developers changing direction now.

~

Comrade Joppy's Tactics

2CP – Shock Troops
2CP/6CP – M42 45mm light AT gun/AT-Gun Ambush Tactics
6CP – Rapid Conscription
2CP/8CP – Mark Vehicle or PMD-6 Anti Personnel and Light Anti-Vehicle Mine
13CP – IS-2 Heavy Tank

I almost didn't include this suggestion because, Joppy couldn't settle on what he wanted - he couldn't even decide on a name. The early-game version has the light AT gun and the mines; it looks to provide some assistance when vehicles start to appear but, the only late-game help is the IS-2. The middle-game version has AT Ambush Tactics and Mark Vehicle, which offer a lot more help against enemy tanks and their impact will persist until the end of the game. It is this version which I like - it's solid if not particularly outstanding; it's not a must-have but it is worthy of some consideration.

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Wetwork Tactics

Radio Intercept - 0 CP
PMD-6 Anti-personnel Mines - 2 CP
Spy Network - 4 CP
Booby Trap Territory - 6 CP
IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike - 12 CP

The author of this proposal continues his theme of strange name choices but, the theme of the doctrine is consistent and coherent. It is irregular warfare, a combination of spying and inflicting casualties without direct confrontation. It's an interesting approach, suited to a very particular mind-set. It reminds me of the AI from CoH1, with its nasty habit of mining resource points but doing little else to defend them. It may not have much appeal to the wider community but, some players would enjoy this doctrine immensely.

~

Infantry Assault Tactics

KV-1 Heavy Tank or T-34/85 Medium Tank - 0CP
Forward Headquarters - 1CP
Commissar Squad - 2CP
Conscript Assault Package Upgrade - 3CP
For Mother Russia! - 6 CP

The theme of early-game infantry doctrines continues with this idea. The Forward Headquarters means this suggestion is most suited to maps with lots of buildings and the Assault Package will also help in that environment. The KV fits the theme better but, the better mobility and firepower of the T-34/85 will probably help more in the later stages of a game. It's a solid proposal, very much aligned with its name. However, without any late-game items, it may be best suited to team games.

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Not a Step Back! Tactics

(1 CP) Forward Headquarters
(2 CP) Commissar Command Squad
(2 CP) Conscript PTRS Package
(2 CP) Conscript Assault Package Upgrade
(6 CP) For Mother Russia!

This is a variation on the conscript upgrades theme and another early-game infantry doctrine. It's probably most suited to urban maps and team games. It could be fun to play for those disposed to infantry combat. However, as I said above, having 2 conscript upgrades under the same commander means this proposal is very unlikely to be chosen.

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Concentrated Defense Tactics

(0 CP) T-34/85 Medium Tank
(2 CP) Conscript PTRS Package
(2 CP) Guards Rifle Infantry
(2 CP) DShK 38 Heavy Machine Gun
(2 CP) HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad

This is a unique and quite interesting suggestion. All the items are available early and yet they all have utility throughout the game. It is mostly infantry-oriented but, the tank and the heavy mortar give the player some extra beef. There are no late-game items so, it might be better suited to team games. However, I'd like to see how it goes in a 1v1 game because, this looks like a commander I'd want.

~

Red Air Force Tactics

Recon Overflight (cp4)
Supply Drop (cp4)
Mark Vehicle (cp8)
IL-2 Sturmovik Attacks (cp10)
IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike (cp12)

I hold the opinion that every faction should have a dedicated air-support commander so, this proposal naturally appeals to me. It's a Soviet version of the Wehrmacht Close Air Support doctrine. It is consistent, coherent and very useful but, it suffers the same problem as its German counterpart - it is very munitions intensive. It requires a large map with lots of resources to take full advantage of it. It's one of those commanders that I would love to have but would rarely use.

~

Frontal Assault Tactics

Fresh Conscript Squad - 0CP
Commissar Command Squad - 2 CP
No Retreat, No Surrender! - 3 CP
For Mother Russia - 6 CP
Rapid conscription - 6 CP

Here is yet another early-game infantry-oriented proposal, this one being totally devoted to spamming low-grade infantry units that are motivated to fight to the death by love of country and NKVD guns in their backs. I don't find the concept of human-wave attacks appealing but, it's certainly popular with those that play the Soviet faction. This doctrine has to be included due to its use of elements from other parts of the game. It's the same as all the other infantry-spamming proposals and yet different at the same time. Oorah!

~

Guard Motor Heavy Tactics

KV1/KV8 constructed from t4 (0 cp, passive)
Guards Rifle Infantry (2cp, call in)
ML20 or B4 Howitzer (8 cp)
Sturmovik IL2 (loiter, 12 cp)
IS2 (call in 13 cp)

For a change, this is an idea that relies on heavy late-game elements. I can't tell whether the author intended to have one or both of the KV's available to build but, I can tell that it's more likely to be accepted if it's just one. (Which one is better would be a personal choice but, I'm inclined to favor the flame tank for its utility against infantry. I am also disposed to prefer the ML20 over the B4 because, the smaller gun fires more rounds so accuracy isn't as big an issue.) This doctrine is much more in line with my taste in commanders; it would be a must-have for those of us who love it heavy. However, it may be just a little too heavy for the developers.

~

Deep Line Tactics

Anti-Tank Ambush Camo (2 CP)
DSHK 38 HMG (2 CP)
HM-38 120mm (2 CP)
Fear Propaganda (4 CP)
B4 203mm Howitzer (8 CP)

This coherent and consistent suggestion is a support doctrine with no specialist infantry or tanks. It looks like one of the better doctrines with Fear Propaganda in it, having plenty of heavy weapons to punish any units which get trapped under its barrage. The AT Ambush Camo will help dealing with any tanks and the howitzer can be used as a direct fire weapon as well. It might be best suited to a team game but, playing against this doctrine in a 1v1 game would present a challenge as well. It may not be to everyone's taste but, it's definitely a likely candidate.

~

Guard Armor Defense Tactics

PMD-6 Anti-Personnel Mines (2 CP)
Guards Rifle Infantry (2 CP)
Commissar Command Squad (2 CP)
Recon Overflight (4 CP)
IS-2 Heavy tank (13 CP)

Like a lot of other proposals for the Soviet faction, this doctrine has a lot of low CP items. The exception is the heavy tank. I believe this is partly due to the lack of middle CP items available to the Soviets. However, in this case, I think the author included an item which doesn't really fit the theme and it could be replaced with a better, higher CP item. The mines don't fit the Armor Defense theme. (In my opinion, the PTAB Anti-tank Bombing Run would be a better choice for this doctrine. It fits the theme better and makes the doctrine more balanced.) As it stands, this suggestion may be fun to play but, it doesn't seem to be a likely choice.

~

Heavy Armor Intercept Tactics

(0 CP) T34-85 Medium Tank
(2 CP) Anti-Tank Gun Ambush Tactics
(3 CP) Conscript Assault Package
(4 CP) Recon Overflight
(14 CP) ISU-152 Heavy Assault Gun

The pairing of the T-34/85 and the ISU-152 is what makes this doctrine interesting. The other items will help in the early game but, in the later stages, the quality of this armor combination will really make a difference. This combination favors a smaller, more potent armored force that should have an advantage over the medium tanks of every other faction. The T-34/85 and the ISU-152 don't appear together in any existing doctrine and the novelty may give this proposal an edge.

~

Operation Bagration Tactics

(0 CP) T34-85 Medium Tank
(2 CP) Shock Troops
(2 CP) Anti-tank Gun Ambush Tactics
(4 CP) Spy Network
(12 CP) IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike

I applaud the author of this proposal for the historical reference but, it may be a bit too specific to gain acceptance. The doctrine itself is quite good; all arms except artillery are included, even intelligence-gathering. Both offense & defense will benefit under this commander and it should suit most scenarios. It looks like it would be fun to play and quite worthy of consideration.

~

Urban Support Tactics

Forward Headquarters
•Available from 1CP
DShK 38 Heavy machine gun
•Available from 2CP
PMD-6 Anti-Personal Mines OR PMD-6M light anti-vehicle mines
•Available from 2CP
Conscript Assault Package upgrade OR Conscript PTRS package
•Available from 3CP(AP) OR 2CP(PTRS)
B-4 203mm Howitzer
•Available from 8CP

This suggestion is another infantry-oriented doctrine, this time offering support for fighting in urban environments. The author couldn't make up his mind about which mines to use. Given that the Soviets already have non-doctrinal AT mines, I would suggest the anti-personnel mines make more sense, especially on an urban map. The choice of which conscript package to use is more a matter of personal taste. I would favor the PTRS package slightly because, this doctrine lacks any other AT options and the PTRS complements the duskha so nicely. This is one of the better infantry-oriented proposals but, the lack of balance in all of them could weigh against any of them being chosen.

~

*(Special Mention) As with the UK review, I've set aside any proposals which include items from other factions. Unfortunately, in this case, there is only one that met the requirements but, it's still an interesting suggestion that's quite different from anything else proposed for the Soviet faction.

*Lend-Lease Reserve Doctrine

Valentine Light Tank - 0CP (Built at Tankoviy Battalion Command)
Radio Interception - 0CP
Air Resupply Operation - 4CP
Vehicle Crew Repair Training - 7CP
IL-2 Bombing Run - 12CP

This suggestion is what might be called a "light" doctrine. There are no tanks or artillery and no specialist infantry or upgrades. What it does offer is a light tank and a weapons drop to help during the period of a game when the opposition is using light armor to take bites out of Soviet infantry formations. In the latter stages of a game, Crew Repairs and the Bombing Run provide support during battles fought exclusively with core force units. I don't think this idea will find much favor, with either the players or the developers. However, it's something so different from the other suggestions for this faction I felt it needed to be included on this list.

~

There you go. I almost didn't write this review because, some players of this faction take things a little too personally. Again, this is just my opinion so don't be too unhappy if your proposal isn't here. The developers are unlikely to share my opinion so, your proposal may still be chosen. As the Flash said in "Justice League": Dostoevsky!

Tagged:

Comments

  • #2
    1 week ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 267

    Like the UK review, I've done a count of the items in the proposals listed above. Based purely on the number of times they appeared in the suggestions, these are the most popular items for the new Soviet commander. I've compiled them into the format of a commander for the sake of seeing what it might look like.

    Note: This is NOT necessarily what the final commander will look like. I am NOT involved in the decision-making process and this is done purely for entertainment purposes.

    Hypothetical Tactics

    (2 CP) DShK 38 HMG (5 suggestions)
    (2 CP) Commissar Command Squad (6 suggestions)
    (3 CP) Conscript Assault Package Upgrade (7 suggestions)
    (6 CP) For Mother Russia (5 suggestions)
    (12 CP) IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike (5 suggestions)

    It's actually not a bad doctrine, quite coherent if a little unbalanced. For the sake of balance, I would personally prefer a heavy tank instead of the heavy machine-gun but, the gun would be useful on an urban map. (I might even go so far as to suggest this is an "Urban Assault" doctrine.) It does lack anti-tank features but, the Soviets have that well covered in their core force. Heavy tanks will present a problem in the latter stages of games with this doctrine but, the Precision Bombing Strike should help wear them down enough for core units to finish the job. The real issue for this commander will come when the player launches late-games assaults; then the lack of a good heavy tank will be keenly felt. I wouldn't be rushing to acquire this commander but, if I had it, I would probably use it (under certain circumstances).

  • #3
    1 week ago

    Howdy. I'm the guy with the strange name choices for the doctrines I made lol. I just like to be creative and step outside of the box with some of these doctrine like my British Apocalypse Regiment and the OKW that was very infantry focused. Like you said, it may not appeal to the wider community but maybe to some players who wanted to play that style due to their interests or maybe a mod like infantry only mod. That was my thought process. I just wanted something that is arguably different than everyone else. :)

  • #4
    1 week ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 267

    @im_behind_you Your proposals are certainly different, no argument from me. The names are interesting, just unlikely to ever be used in the game. Your ideas are unlike any other suggestions in the threads, but in a good way in my opinion. I admire your creativity. Your doctrines have been some of the most enjoyable to think about, regarding both how to play them properly and how to counter them.

    Of the suggestions you made, the OKW doctrine looks to have the best chance (in my opinion); it's a little unbalanced but it offers the OKW a potent infantry assault commander. However, it would never appear under that name. The use of anything related to the SS is strictly taboo in this game.

    Thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know people are actually reading what I wrote and not just scanning the post to see if their proposal got mentioned. Cheers.

  • #5
    1 week ago

    I had no idea that the SS were taboo, otherwise I would have not named it that.

  • #6
    5 days ago

    My commanders got featured in all of these besides the U.S. one. Glad you liked em!

  • #7
    4 days ago
    SlayerSlayer Posts: 98
    I lile the Elite Troops from Soviet very much. The units are "new" but already present ingame (capaign, ToW). Do they count as new units according to your rules?
  • #8
    4 days ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 267

    @Slayer My understanding is this: if it doesn't already exist in the Campaign, ToW or Skirmish modes it's not allowed. This means modded units and abilities are off-limits. I believe the developers are a little bit flexible about it but not much. I chose to follow a strict interpretation of the "no new units or abilities" rule, in the hope that I wouldn't be accused of favoritism with my choices. It also made things easier for me; I didn't have to go check every item to see if it had already been modded.

    As for the Soviet Elite Troops doctrine, I'm not sure to which one you are referring. There are 3 doctrines with Elite in the names. Unfortunately, none of them made it onto the list so, I'm still in the dark regarding which one you meant. I'll give you my reasons for not including each of them, in the hope that I'll answer your question.

    darkfireslide's proposal:

    Guards Rifle Elite Tactics

    (2 CP) DP-28 Light Machine Gun Package for Conscripts
    (2 CP) Guard Rifle Infantry
    (5 CP) Conscript Repair Tactics
    (8 CP) Mark Target
    (17 CP) IS-2 Ace

    This was a tough one. I really like it and I really wanted to include it. However, my understanding is that the machine-gun package for the Conscripts requires the creation of a new model - a conscript holding and firing a DP. Even though I would very much like to see DP's given to conscripts, that was enough to disqualify it. If someone involved in the decision-making process told me this could be done, this doctrine would be immediately included on my list with a big tick of approval. Also, the IS-2 Ace is borderline, in that it doesn't exist in the 3 live game modes as far as I know, but it doesn't require a new model. As far as I'm concerned, it's allowed.

    karapapagan's proposal:

    Elite Force Tactics

    (1 CP) Mortar Pits
    (2 CP) Pozharsky squad
    (2 CP) Anti-Tank conscript squad
    (6 CP) OT-34 Stationary tank
    (10 CP) Veteran T-34/85

    This idea got a fair bit of support from other players. Unfortunately, all of the items come from the All Units mod, which disqualifies this suggestion under my interpretation of the rules. I might have overlooked 1 item (the veteran T-34/85) but, I couldn't find the other 4 acceptable. Additionally, given the amount of complaining about British mortar emplacements, I find the Mortar Pit unit a little strange. Why does anyone want to add another fixed mortar position to the game? I would prefer to see them add an unoccupied gun pit to the game, one which could accommodate a gun, a mortar or even just an infantry squad. But, that's just my opinion.

    ssanti93's proposal:

    Elite Guards Army

    0CP Elite snipers
    4CP IL-2 Smoke bombs
    7CP Vehicle crew repairs training
    8CP B4 203mm howitzer OR ML-20 152 mm gun howitzer
    17CP Elite IS-2 heavy tank Call in

    There are 2 reasons I disqualified this idea. First and foremost, the IL-2 Smoke Bombs is a repackaged Wehrmacht ability. It's in the game but, it constitutes an ability borrowed from an Axis faction. That goes against Rule #2 of my reviews. I am of the opinion that the Soviets do need a smoke barrage and on its own I would have accepted it. However, ssanti93 also included not 1 but 2 new elite units in the doctrine as well. Again, these units don't require new models and are technically within the rules. I just think that 2 veteran units together is a bit much, even though I think both units make sense on their own. If you compare this to the Wehrmacht Elite Troops doctrine (as it is now), this suggestion is way more powerful - perhaps too OP to ever be chosen.

    All three of these ideas have a lot of merit and may be under consideration by the development team. I was on the fence with both the first and third proposals because, they are both right on the line between in and out. Perhaps I was wrong to leave them out. In my defense, I did the Soviet review last and, by the time I got to it, I was getting tired. I may have been stricter than necessary just so I could finish a little faster. I apologize for that.

    I hope this helps you understand my choices. Cheers.

  • #9
    4 days ago
    SlayerSlayer Posts: 98
    Yeah, I meant the Elite Force commander.

    If a unit doesn't have to be created (modeled, skinned, animated, etc), it's not a new unit in my book, but maybe I'm being too loose with the rules here.
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