Urgent need for balancing the factions

#1
5 months ago

It is no surprise to anyone how strong the Axis factions are towards their counterparts.

It is like if the game developers were simply Axis lovers, starting with Veterancy, Axis units get better combat effectiveness since their first level up, in contrast to the useless "buffs" their enemies get on V1. Soviets as the best example. Giving the Axis an advantage on infantry confrontation.

Axis

-Axis infantry will level up Veterancy even as they FLEE to base avoiding shots (WTF)
-Very early cost efficient infantry
-Anti-tank rocket launchers (unskilled) do way too much damage against Allied armor (take into consideration Allied tanks have LESS armor) and this anti-tank oriented infantry are even great against infantry? REALLY? Late game blob spam and they resist quite reasonable to mg suppression
-Mortars have far better accuracy
-Deployable buildings anywhere on the map so they get free resources? Very early into the game OBKW
-Tanks (really) these are the best option for "I'm getting wrecked 90% of the game 80 to 450- and then suddenly I get almost unkillable and unskilled tanks to change the game entirely for the past 50 minutes. Unreasonable.

Allies
-Not great anti-tank units especially the Soviets armor pen. (WTF) and requires you to get close to them in the case of infantry.
-Veterancy? early game joke
-You have to totally dominate the map since the start of the game or they will rush overpowered tanks giving you no chance of making a comeback "Something highly more in Axis favor when losing"
-Even when you invest all your effort on barely making mistakes, the game will allow the Axis to have a high chance on making a comeback, something that rarely happens for the Allies; Check surrender stats on the database.

As a player who has been playing a lot of strategy games among some other categories, I must grant Company of Heroes 2 the award for the most unbalanced game on present time, and for what I've read on numerous forums from different wéb pages, it has been like this for years.

Patch notes: So through the years they seemed to have nerfed some allied units and buffed some axis units and vice-versa, however, they don't seem to have a track of all of these. As for example, the T-70 mg damage got nerfed years ago, but some enemy infantry units got buffed! so it sank the chance of fighting back fairly, among some other details I've noticed from reading patches notes deeply.

Lastly, to close my point I've been playing this game daily for 2 months because I totally fell in love with it, however, is unreal how error permissive it is with one side, then the other.

In-game
Axis player losing: Your faction is very bad . . . Nope, we just have more squishy time-consuming tanks and infantry that require skill to kill something entirely.

Comments

  • #2
    5 months ago

    I certainly agree with you patrol. My brother and I both have over 500 hours of game play into this game and we are pretty convinced that the people in charge of balancing are Nazi sympathizers. When you match up a German unit to the equivalent allied unit the German units are usually superior.

    Units
    A grenadier will beat a rifleman or conscript at long range despite being cheaper.
    a panzer 4 will beat a comet, t34, or Sherman in a 1vs1 and it is only 10 fuel more. (but they have two more levels of OP tanks above that)
    an OKW panzerwerfer can be stealth in the middle of an open field and ambush a vehicle which doesn't even make sense
    there jagpanzer can go stealth, a tank can go stealth where the Jackson doesn't even have an ability for free
    an obersoldaten can solo an mag frontally
    the Wehrmacht MG has a wider gun arc and deals significantly more suppression than any allied MG, and can utter annihilate soft vehicles and infantry with the API ammo
    the motors are far superior and can counter barrage naturally (which is a commander ability for the British)
    the LEF18 artillery is just straight broken. (which is funny because the strategy use to be that the allies would deploy artillery and the Germans would deploy tanks, but now the Germans just do both because their arty is far better)
    The Panzerwerfer deals suppression on rocket launch, which no other faction does.
    By the way, why don't the Americans have a sniper or the Sherman calliope (without a commander)? the had them in the first one.
    Don't get me started on Sturmpioneers (a 300 manpower unit right off the bat?)
    and the list goes on with unit comparison

    Abilities:
    Abilities are the worst in my opinion.
    The Germans have a loitering airstrike that instantly pins any infantry, while the Russian equivalent just suppresses them briefly)
    The German bombing runs and artillery strikes have a very quick casting time, compared to the allies very slow casting time.
    The US and Ru have almost no artillery abilities in general, despite the US forces are well known for their artillery and naval bombardments.

    You point out a very good observation in your comment too, that the Germans can come back from a 400 VP deficit. I have watched many professional or top 100 player games, and the Germans can come back from big deficits while the allies cannot. Which shows that the Germans can reach a point where the allies cannot.

    I think that the perfect example of how OP the Germans are is a game my brother and I played the other day. We always play allies because we are true born Americans and everyone knows that one of the great american pass times is punching Nazis. But this time we played the Germans (me OKW and my brother WEH) we had played them like 3 times before, and didn't have any kind of build order, we just built the things we usually went up against as allies, my APM was probably 25% of what it is when I play allies. We had no idea what we were doing but ANNIHILATED THEM, it was 495 to 0.

    If an player can pick up a faction they have never played, with a totally different dynamic, and beat someone that hard then the game is broken.

  • #3
    5 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 247
    edited March 11

    Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

    Indeed, if you set an only A.I game the Axis will once again come on top winning, no matter how many times you try, in order to get different outcomes. Meaning that there is something wrong going on.

    Axis factions simply have highly buffed units all around their army, T1 basic units wrecking light to medium tanks with only 2 squads is absurd (4 very long range and high burst Sturmpioneer Squads to take down your IS-152 Heavy tank Lmao). Everyone is just spamming Sturmpioneer Squads during the entire length of the game and having outstanding performance.

    Being able to jump straight to the T4 building and set it next to a Victory Point sigh

    However, there have been outstanding games as an SU player where I destroy his T4 building.

    Tanks ... Axis tanks need nerfs to them armor Those MEDIUM tanks basically allows you to roam around the map while receiving low damage even from AT guns (I've discovered that If I want to lose a game with the Soviet Union, I just have to buy AT guns as they do almost no damage to medium or higher tanks IT'S A TRAP)

    Axis AT guns do less damage BUT once again ...... Allies medium tanks have low armor so they get destroyed quite fast.

    Mgs are my favorite part as they do instant suppression with an arc that covers a lot of territory. I still have yet to confirm if the Axis MG switches between targets after suppressing one unit without giving any manual commands.

    The Schwerer Panzer Headquarters T4 should be restricted outside of Victory Points territory or special points such as Ammo or Fuel depots. In order to balance things out.

    Now to mention an example of Veterancy T-70 Vet1 should be removed as it is totally useless compared to Axis tanks, and just give it a better burst against heavy armor or better armor as it levels up.

    Oh yes I did try playing the Axis in ranked without knowing them and it was a total massacre LOL

    They are extremely easier to play and full of O.P units, so at least for me it is just too boring playing them

    Now, I know that the Axis had a well-trained army with more efficient armament during WWII, but this game shouldn't go as far as creating a big advantage against the entire enemy factions. It should be balanced after all.

  • #4
    5 months ago
    robocskarobocska Posts: 18

    LOL its make me laugh

  • #5
    5 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 247

    Some points to start balancing things out would be:

    1) Restricting the outside of special points territory. This will stop players from spamming it next to Victory Points, Fuel depots or even Ammo depots.

    2) Decreasing the range from Panzerchreck by 5% the least, since they can demolish any armor in front of them from a very far and safe distance

    3) Decreasing the Axis MG's suppression rate, so it will be just like allies MG's. Requiring two full rounds of fire to suppress infantry units.

    4) Increasing the chance of getting hit by 2% for Sturmpioneer Squad, since they are like mini tanks roaming around the map. Shock troops from the Soviet Union are the ones capable of 1v1 them, so you get the point.

    5) Decreasing the chance of deflecting AT bullets on both medium and heavy tanks. Since you tend to deflect a lot of incoming damage (not to mention the over the top armor that they have).

    6) This one is hilarious! The SWS Halftrack is a heavy tank truck that can withstand a lot of anti-tank damage. For example, try destroying it with a T-70 or even with an SU-76M Assault Gun. Moving this T1 vehicle around the map should be riskier

    In my personal opinion point, one and two are the most unfair or unbalanced facts in present time.

    Hopefully, the game gets more balanced since it has a lot of potential to become an important game on the E-Sport industry -even after years of its release date-.

  • #6
    5 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 229
    > @youngmoneyhalloween said:
    > I certainly agree with you patrol. My brother and I both have over 500 hours of game play into this game and we are pretty convinced that the people in charge of balancing are Nazi sympathizers. When you match up a German unit to the equivalent allied unit the German units are usually superior.
    >
    > Units
    > A grenadier will beat a rifleman or conscript at long range despite being cheaper.
    > a panzer 4 will beat a comet, t34, or Sherman in a 1vs1 and it is only 10 fuel more. (but they have two more levels of OP tanks above that)
    > an OKW panzerwerfer can be stealth in the middle of an open field and ambush a vehicle which doesn't even make sense
    > there jagpanzer can go stealth, a tank can go stealth where the Jackson doesn't even have an ability for free
    > an obersoldaten can solo an mag frontally
    > the Wehrmacht MG has a wider gun arc and deals significantly more suppression than any allied MG, and can utter annihilate soft vehicles and infantry with the API ammo
    > the motors are far superior and can counter barrage naturally (which is a commander ability for the British)
    > the LEF18 artillery is just straight broken. (which is funny because the strategy use to be that the allies would deploy artillery and the Germans would deploy tanks, but now the Germans just do both because their arty is far better)
    > The Panzerwerfer deals suppression on rocket launch, which no other faction does.
    > By the way, why don't the Americans have a sniper or the Sherman calliope (without a commander)? the had them in the first one.
    > Don't get me started on Sturmpioneers (a 300 manpower unit right off the bat?)
    > and the list goes on with unit comparison
    >
    > Abilities:
    > Abilities are the worst in my opinion.
    > The Germans have a loitering airstrike that instantly pins any infantry, while the Russian equivalent just suppresses them briefly)
    > The German bombing runs and artillery strikes have a very quick casting time, compared to the allies very slow casting time.
    > The US and Ru have almost no artillery abilities in general, despite the US forces are well known for their artillery and naval bombardments.
    >
    > You point out a very good observation in your comment too, that the Germans can come back from a 400 VP deficit. I have watched many professional or top 100 player games, and the Germans can come back from big deficits while the allies cannot. Which shows that the Germans can reach a point where the allies cannot.
    >
    > I think that the perfect example of how OP the Germans are is a game my brother and I played the other day. We always play allies because we are true born Americans and everyone knows that one of the great american pass times is punching Nazis. But this time we played the Germans (me OKW and my brother WEH) we had played them like 3 times before, and didn't have any kind of build order, we just built the things we usually went up against as allies, my APM was probably 25% of what it is when I play allies. We had no idea what we were doing but ANNIHILATED THEM, it was 495 to 0.
    >
    > If an player can pick up a faction they have never played, with a totally different dynamic, and beat someone that hard then the game is broken.

    I cannot disagree axis just have alot of stock units and great abilities to augment but allies lack and need commanders. P47 rockets for Instance got nerfed but only hit armor. Stuka close support hits both. sector assault hits both and tends to wipe all 4 players armies if your so unlucky to be fighting over a star end ing game especially since they track targets yet armor companies massive shells ability are rng to all hell and had also been nerfed to hell even with buff it's not like they track targets inside the circle or encompass an entire sector for that matter. Calliope nerfed to hell never looked at again. Axis favoritism definitely seen here. On the positive note infintry combat has gotten better and they have their unique advantages.
  • #7
    3 months ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 720
    I basically agree with you except I don't find WEH to be too problematic. Grens are a push over and with good micro and combined arms it's not too hard to overcome the weapon team spams.

    OKW is abominable and complement WEH perfectly. OKW's infantry spam is so obnoxious and efficient. It's impossible to play against because even if you push them off they are likely to have traded up. I quit CoH2 for a long time I have (2000+ hours). I played again last night. Was a waste of time and I was surprised that OKW was still just mindlessly blobbing even though USF had gone through such huge changes.

    I mainly played team games were the issue is five fold and I got bored of 1v1 (I main USF) because I would easily beat WEH and lose hard to OKW. It was annoying and boring.

    That being said I do think the British are obtuse just like OKW is for allies. Tommies are just incredible, insane really.

    I think the main issue with this game is the asysemtric balance paired with low faction numbers. All the patches have basically just rolled back the asysmetries. It's cool to have asysemtric gameplay but if you have to play a broken match up 50% of the time it gets really old fast.

    If they ever make another game I would love to see a lot more factions (USMC, Japan, italy, colonial UK, Afrika korps, SS, France, etc) it would spice up the game and relieve the bad match ups.

    Also. I think strong early game vs late game makes for shitty gameplay. It's not fun fighting an enemy who falls off late game (I would rather have something worth using all the big German late game tools against) and it's also boring to just stomp poor WEHs trying to get a grip while they save up for late game.
  • #8
    2 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 28

    It is quite unforgiving when you play as ally, I've played this game for quite some time now but never bothered to check the forums, now I do and I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels Axis vs Allies are quite unbalanced.

    I feel this is due to lack of flexibility on some factions. For example look at Soviets, cons have no upgrades to fight infantry or tanks beside a grenade, in comparison to Grens, Penals have only 1 AT upgrade that doesn't do a lot damage to medium tanks unless snared to give time for those PTRS rifles to pop a few shots... P.grens just aim an shoot 2 rockets that deal great damage and rarely bounce or miss... as stated before since Allied armor is less resistant to AT and is basically dead if they manage to snare your vehicle.

    USF gets some alt weapons options such as BAR or the Bazooka, Brits also get some powerful upgrades with their Brens and PIATS, OKW can get some STGs on Volks, Grens can get LMGs, soviets get nothing (except 3 doctrinal PPSH... woo?).

    Soviet tanks are very weak in armor and have no MG mounted except for M4C sherman... that's another thing, Soviets have a lot of doctrines that feel outdated, such as Defensive Tactics and the Lend Lease.

    UKF have like 3 or 4 more doctrines besides the 3 you get initially? OKW too? I get is not easy to add units or balance new commanders maybe, but why haven't they balanced the game better over these years? or added some features to improve the gameplay instead of straight line building?

    Yes there are new commanders incoming but these doesn't mean they're addressing the current issues with the meta

    IMO they should at least buff some of the doctrinal units to make them feel more unique such as the Hetzer, Pershing, ISU-152, etc.

    Not to mention the matchmaking is broken AF!, I've been in matches where I have team members with 2 and 3 stars vs 1 star or none at all. I rather wait longer for a good level match that I'm more likely going to enjoy even if I lose because it's on my level, than a quick match where half of the team leaves because they are matched with newbies or that the level difference is too much.

    This game has so much more potential but I honestly don't know why this game doesn't have the attention it deserves.

  • #9
    2 months ago
    SaltzmanSaltzman Posts: 7

    Hes right. Axis has even gotten stronger since last patch. Auto loading sniper Tiger is just what Axis was lacking, right Relic?

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