(OKW) Luchs under-performing for its cost.

#1
4 months ago

Some of you might be aware of the fact that I have posted this topic under "General Discussions", "Luchs needs a little buff" but I feel it is appropriate to bring up this issue since it under performs for its price in comparison to any other light tank vehicle.

From what I have realised it takes longer for a Luchs to kill an infantry unit while on the move in comparison to a T70 which can take up to 2 guys in one shot + an mg that is strong, having a much stronger DPS than Luchs, reload speed is faster and overall more deadlier.

T70 is a vehicle considered as a leathal threat, that attempting a single squad to Panzerfaust it, might just cost you a squad wipe. Luchs however does not have that dangerous feeling, it is something that you would not consider as dangerous as a T70, its killing power has been nerfed and lacks against infantry. I feel it is almost pointless getting a vehicle like that. It is so bad at times that I feel what is the point in getting a vehicle like this. OKW is term of vehicles, is very lacking. I you see them 1v1 each other, T70 and Luchs, it is a duel but most of the time T70 wins, even better in infantry engagements.

The Luchs relies heavily on being stationary in order to excel or become more accurate and potent against infantry than on the move. It makes it utterly vulnerable. It feels it does not live up to its expectations due to time it takes and how inconsistent its firepower is. It should be than it is, its a terrible investment.

I do not see the benefit of Luchs having "Camo Ability", it camouflages as a means to serve as a recon, but it does it really give any other benefits. T70 has something similar but no Camo, it is called "Recon Mode" which gives you extra sight and enables you to capture territory. Luchs is just terrible against AI and relies heavily on support than a T70 which can roam around, harass the enemy and capture territory. Luchs does not have a least one of those things, it can not harass, it can not roam around, even capture territory.

T70 has a better time alone protecting itself against AI and AT. Luchs can easily be countered by Stuart and AEC which are similiar in terms of prices but both does even overall better than the Luchs alone. It is just terrible, I usually a the light tank vehicle to be on the move to make it difficult for the enemy but instead it makes it difficult for me when I can not get any kills out it. It forces to either keep a distance or be stationary. I do not want it to do either of those for a vehicle that costs for its price.

It needs AI buff and accuracy because OKW lacks vehicles that can do such things, thus heavily relying them upon PanzerIV or Walking Stuka. All costy, mainly late game. You can of course get a Flakhalftrack but that can easily counter by a Stuart or AEC on the move (even better against infantry). Puma has to be its bodyguard if you want to ensure it stays alive. Puma has been lately inconsistent with its first shots on the move (when you surprise it even in mid range) resulting in a miss against vehicles. Do not know if it was due to a server maintenance or fix but I have been having real bad luck lately with it. Before it was doing fine, but I feel like there is something wrong!!!

I usually skip the Mechanized Base because it does not serve any purpose except AT, Walking Stuka is good but its cost, early to mid, repairs and everyone generally wants a mobile AI vehicle.

I can elaborate more later, but I really think that Luchs needs either a price decrease, or a buff for its poor performance.

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Comments

  • #2
    4 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 393

    T70 required 40-70 more fuel duel to expensive tech, that mean T70 comes 4-7mins later than Luch.

    Its good to buff Luch if Tankovy tech cost from 90fuel to 40fuel. So Luch has similar firepower to T70 & T70 comes at the same time with Luch.

  • #3
    4 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    Yeah I can't build a t70 from my first tech building. That's pretty much what ends the comparison.

    That doesn't mean the luchs shouldn't be touched, but don't go pointing out how much better the t70 is. The puma hardcounters the t70 better than anything the soviets have to counter the luchs.
  • #4
    4 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,595

    Luchs is also 20 fuel cheaper then T70 and arrives earlier.
    Its cost and performance is well placed.

  • #5
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 186

    How about UKF AEC and USF STUART as I have mentioned. They come early also, British earlier and US earlier than Luchs. How does that Justify Luchs performance for the time it arrives? Both these AEC and STUART perform better overall for a similar price. Can also combat Puma, and peforms at the same time as well as Puma in AT and has more capabilities!!!. Luchs does not seem good in AI its main job and light vehicles, only when stationary, only then it is good. I feel that OKW lacks good light vehicles against infantry.

    Seriously, do you really think that Luchs is that good. I mean there are other factions with cheaper options that does better against infantry. I feel that it has more downsides than upsides.

    Its manoeuvrability is another factor, it is worse than other allied armoured light tank that I have mentioned. I get glitches, sometimes bouncing back, sometimes with Luchs making wierd zigzag movements preventing me from escaping enemy light tank vehicle. I think manoeuvrability and accuracy on the move, it is truly its downfall.

    FlakHalfTrack, which relies on it being stationary does a relatively better job than Luchs being stationary and on the move combined. FlakHalfTrack is more vulnerable but what good does a vehicle like Luchs if it cant do either properly. Many times against Brits, being very versatile, get AEC or STUART early and they can counter FlakHalfTrack with ease especially against a Luchs. It is because of their better manoeuvrability, capabilites and earlier timing.

    The fuel difference is more or less 10 fuel. Despite difference, for Luchs and the fact that it comes later, for its price should be good against infantry on the move.

    I really do not see how it justified, I feel Wehr scout car and OKW Luchs performs more or less the same, just Luchs having a bit more health and amour, performs only slightly better, price difference by half roughly, I would rather take Wehr scout car for its price than Luchs. Luchs is just terrible in my opinion where it failed countless times to finish guys on the move compared to T70, AEC, and STUART.

    For those 3 (T70 later, AEC earlier and STUART earlier) being more versatile, it should cost more right, justified than wouldn't it? It is just simply not justified if it cant do one thing properly espeically when it comes later. Luchs comes earlier than T70 only.

    Accuracy on the move needs to be buffed. Compare to the other allied vehicles mentioned, they are better. Just that would improve its performance, accuracy because it is not the good. Do you personally use the Luchs yourself, because then you will understand how frustrating it is when you circle around a unit and it feels like it is missing most of the time compared to any other cheaper vehicles which does better than Luchs for its price.

    Take M3A1 Scout Car SU, it is absolutely cheap and accessible in the beginning. It is such an exploit against Axis if you use it properly with guys on top, engineers with flamethrower will already do a better job than Luchs. I use this, and just abuse the advantage I have other axis, particularly OKW. If used correctly, you chase them down before they make back to headquarters, I usually pull off a least 1 squad wipe to 3 on average, that is as long as the does not have early on AT capabilities. It is easier to pull this off against OKW.

    Kubelwagen being the cheapest lightest vehicle in game does terrible, it is almost pointless having it as an accessible unit compared to british Universal Carrier which costs 260 manpower, 50 manpower difference for a vehicle that performs way better, with more upgrades. Life expectancy last on average 2-3 times more.

    OKW lacks light vehicles consistency and performance in my opinion.

    It is easier to counter germans early to mid game. Late game, as long as the axis hold and get their beasts, they will eventually win. That is their only chance if both are good players.

    I just do not see how it is justified. Please tell me whether AEC and STUART are justified? Luchs comes later, so should there be some changes in order to justify its abilities then?

  • #6
    4 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,595

    @Balanced_Gamer said:
    How about UKF AEC and USF STUART as I have mentioned. They come early also, British earlier and US earlier than Luchs. How does that Justify Luchs performance for the time it arrives? Both these AEC and STUART perform better overall for a similar price. Can also combat Puma, and peforms at the same time as well as Puma in AT and has more capabilities!!!. Luchs does not seem good in AI its main job and light vehicles, only when stationary, only then it is good. I feel that OKW lacks good light vehicles against infantry.

    What about them?
    AEC is just a bad puma with shorter range and stuart is below average vs both, armor and infantry.
    Stuart is also much more expensive then Luchs and AEC comes from exclusive tech that locks bofors out.

    Seriously, do you really think that Luchs is that good. I mean there are other factions with cheaper options that does better against infantry. I feel that it has more downsides than upsides.

    If it wasn't good, top players wouldn't rush it every single time.

  • #7
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 812

    The easiest way to fix the luchs is actually to just make the Stewart and AEC come out later. T70 is def way too good and should be nerfed, but thats for another thread. Luchs could be buffed, maybe a slight buff to performance on the move, but i wouldn't really go nuts on it. Its other armies having tools far too easily/quick that really makes it look bad.

  • #8
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 186

    It is not about rushing all the time, it just does not rush as well. AEC and STUART has less range than Puma but reload is really the same, Pumas armour is less since it can take damage from small arms, Puma is not good against infantry.

    If AEC flanks Puma, there is chance that AEC will win, same with Stuart. For Puma, range may be slightly longer but how frequent that does that occur compared to late game Firefly and Panther, a bigger range distinction. There is not any benefits for getting a Puma compared to AEC or STUART.

    Puma heavily relies on flanking the enemy vehicle as well vice versa. The fact it is more versatile and does well against infantry the AEC and STUART, forces axis player to go aggressive. Puma costs the same or very alike as AEC and STUART.

    Yeah, there are differences in terms of versatility. That often decides the outcome of the game.

  • #9
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 186

    @ARMYguy said:
    The easiest way to fix the luchs is actually to just make the Stewart and AEC come out later. T70 is def way too good and should be nerfed, but thats for another thread. Luchs could be buffed, maybe a slight buff to performance on the move, but i wouldn't really go nuts on it. Its other armies having tools far too easily/quick that really makes it look bad.

    I most certainly agree. You have stated good and clear points. To be honest I do not think performance should depend on the timing or the arrival of the vehicle, I do think they should weigh its overall average performance and adjust accordingly to HOW IT PERFROMS, not when it arrives, I mean it is factor but should weigh the difference in terms of performance more than timing of arrival. Then the game will be more balanced, would you not say?

    That is by far easier to calculate its performance and distinction. Too bad there is not a clear site to give these proper statistics because the numbers are usually everything.

    Back to topic:
    In conclusion, Luchs needs a slight buff. I am not asking for drastic or huge changes, rather improve its current inconsistent state.

    Can you guys tell me what other light vehicle stands out for OKW, according to its arrival and performance? Ignore the medium and heavy tanks. Its options during early - mid game.

  • #10
    4 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 4
    T70 main gun has unusually good RNG chance to splash kill 2-3 man in a shot, for wehr that is big problem. So AC, luch and ostwind cannons may look busy shooting away, they are not effective killing man. I suggest let luch and ostwind have side upgrade with light suppression ability, 60ammo upgrade, 15ammo for subsequent use with 10s cooldown. Luch accuracy on move raised from 0.3 to 0.5 to be same with t70.

    Pro okw players now prefer fht because it is cheaper and does better job againt allies infantry.
    Pro Soviet love t70 because only p4 can counter it or have to forced into puma doc as seen in many pro matches.

    T70 has insane reload times, superior to luch in most all stats but its popcap is same as luch. It should be raised to 8.
    Its a bit later but way better.

    Another issue with current allies meta, their unit popcap is low for the performance, allowing them to field more units that overwhelmed axis already nerfed armor.

    Usf scotch howitzer carriage need to raise from 10 to 12, like with other arty units.
  • #11
    4 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    I think allies unit pop cap can be relook at. It is one reason for their stronger late game. Their army size just overwhelmed and outflank axis. They keep coming back even before you finish repairing your tanks.
  • #12
    4 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited March 4
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > Can you guys tell me what other light vehicle stands out for OKW, according to its arrival and performance? Ignore the medium and heavy tanks. Its options during early - mid game.

    AAHT. I got 40+ kills with it in one game last week. Vet 5 and lasted the whole game. Far from the first time I've gotten a vet 5 one too. It's really strong
  • #13
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 186

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > Can you guys tell me what other light vehicle stands out for OKW, according to its arrival and performance? Ignore the medium and heavy tanks. Its options during early - mid game.

    AAHT. I got 40+ kills with it in one game last week. Vet 5 and lasted the whole game. Far from the first time I've gotten a vet 5 one too. It's really strong

    Exactly. It is the only highlight, light vehicle OKW has in proper terms against infantry. I just can not pick or think of any other vehicle during early-mid game. It is, if not the only best option OKW has. Due to its weakness against AEC and STUART, which can easily counter the AAHT, possibly T70 but would be more difficult, it really is a good supporting unit. Better than having a MG32 which is the worst HMG in my opinion. Terrible in every way except decent suppression which is the only highlight of it.

    @mrgame2 said:
    T70 main gun has unusually good RNG chance to splash kill 2-3 man in a shot, for wehr that is big problem. So AC, luch and ostwind cannons may look busy shooting away, they are not effective killing man. I suggest let luch and ostwind have side upgrade with light suppression ability, 60ammo upgrade, 15ammo for subsequent use with 10s cooldown. Luch accuracy on move raised from 0.3 to 0.5 to be same with t70.

    Pro okw players now prefer fht because it is cheaper and does better job againt allies infantry.
    Pro Soviet love t70 because only p4 can counter it or have to forced into puma doc as seen in many pro matches.

    T70 has insane reload times, superior to luch in most all stats but its popcap is same as luch. It should be raised to 8.
    Its a bit later but way better.

    Another issue with current allies meta, their unit popcap is low for the performance, allowing them to field more units that overwhelmed axis already nerfed armor.

    Usf scotch howitzer carriage need to raise from 10 to 12, like with other arty units.

    I just wish that Luchs for its price and performance should be overall better. Although OKW can get it earlier the Luchs compared to T70, (already mentioned how much more earlier AEC and STUART comes), OKW place themselves in a rather difficult or disadvantageous position in terms of infantry and better units. Mainly against UKF and USF. Possibly even SU when against Penals with PTRS.

    You sacrifice healing your units, thus losing more manpower, of course you can use medkit but you will waste more ammo that you can make better use of. There is more cons than pros in getting a Luchs overall, performance, consequences and so forth. There no real upside in getting Luchs early, it is really a disadvantage.

  • #14
    4 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 237

    Well, the big problem for soviet is that you have to skip the t2 in order to get out the t70 early, which also mean you going to lack anti tank gun and be forced to upgrade your penal to ptrs and lose the effect on killing inf, which also means u you will get your ass kicked by costeffective volks and jli.. OKW dosn't has that problem since the raketen get unlocked when the first truck is seted up. Getting an t70 means also you will have to deal with an p4 early, even if the okw player goes luchs, before you can build the t-4 and get out an su-85, the t34 cant counter the p4. Your mostly one step behind with what you need to counter OKW it feels like if the player places its card right, feels like u pretty much forced to realy on commander still to counter OKW.

  • #15
    4 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,802
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > It is not about rushing all the time, it just does not rush as well. AEC and STUART has less range than Puma but reload is really the same, Pumas armour is less since it can take damage from small arms, Puma is not good against infantry.
    >
    > If AEC flanks Puma, there is chance that AEC will win, same with Stuart. For Puma, range may be slightly longer but how frequent that does that occur compared to late game Firefly and Panther, a bigger range distinction. There is not any benefits for getting a Puma compared to AEC or STUART.
    >
    > Puma heavily relies on flanking the enemy vehicle as well vice versa. The fact it is more versatile and does well against infantry the AEC and STUART, forces axis player to go aggressive. Puma costs the same or very alike as AEC and STUART.
    >
    > Yeah, there are differences in terms of versatility. That often decides the outcome of the game.

    Puma hard coumters lights and is potent even vs mediums.
    Just because you Can flank it doesn't make it poor. You CAN flank an elefant but that doesn't mean that it's not still a counter for armour.

    If you are worried about the T70, Stuart, AEC get a puma and watch their armiur advantage disappear and you will have AT ready for their first medium.
  • #16
    4 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    @Balanced_Gamer The puma is also really good. It hardcounters all of the allied lights that you say are so much superior.

    So the puma is GREAT at it's job, the AAHT is very strong, and luchs is okay. It's not amazing, but it's also the fastest light tank to hit the field.

    I really don't understand how you can think OKW doesn't have good lights. Ostheers are easily the worst, but thats only because they arrive even earlier than the luchs.
  • #17
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 186
    edited March 4

    @mrdjjag81 said:
    Well, the big problem for soviet is that you have to skip the t2 in order to get out the t70 early, which also mean you going to lack anti tank gun and be forced to upgrade your penal to ptrs and lose the effect on killing inf, which also means u you will get your ass kicked by costeffective volks and jli.. OKW dosn't has that problem since the raketen get unlocked when the first truck is seted up. Getting an t70 means also you will have to deal with an p4 early, even if the okw player goes luchs, before you can build the t-4 and get out an su-85, the t34 cant counter the p4. Your mostly one step behind with what you need to counter OKW it feels like if the player places its card right, feels like u pretty much forced to realy on commander still to counter OKW.

    That is true, it can be disadvantageous going against OKW if you upgrade Penals with PTRS (losing infantry firepower), thus giving OKW volks and jagers the upper hand.

    I think the best option would be then to get Guard Rifles Infantry since they are the most versatile unit, both against infantry and vehicles surprisingly great in both areas. They have 2 DP28 upgrade increasing overall infantry efficiency and PTRS that actually hit infantry for 27 damage. That is the way you can completely annihilate OKW with its light vehicles.

    It is even a threat against a PanzerIV when you use mark target. That is the best option I usually go for since I do not have to sacrifice anything!!! Except for its cost which I believe is around 340-380 manpower but it is extremely worth it, great in all ranges, preferably mid - long range and must be stationary (like Grenadiers in someways with MG42 upgrade).

    One or two of them will be enough to hinder from advancing with PanzerIV into your territory. Mines are also a good way to scare them too, but this is better.

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > It is not about rushing all the time, it just does not rush as well. AEC and STUART has less range than Puma but reload is really the same, Pumas armour is less since it can take damage from small arms, Puma is not good against infantry.
    >
    > If AEC flanks Puma, there is chance that AEC will win, same with Stuart. For Puma, range may be slightly longer but how frequent that does that occur compared to late game Firefly and Panther, a bigger range distinction. There is not any benefits for getting a Puma compared to AEC or STUART.
    >
    > Puma heavily relies on flanking the enemy vehicle as well vice versa. The fact it is more versatile and does well against infantry the AEC and STUART, forces axis player to go aggressive. Puma costs the same or very alike as AEC and STUART.
    >
    > Yeah, there are differences in terms of versatility. That often decides the outcome of the game.

    Puma hard coumters lights and is potent even vs mediums.
    Just because you Can flank it doesn't make it poor. You CAN flank an elefant but that doesn't mean that it's not still a counter for armour.

    If you are worried about the T70, Stuart, AEC get a puma and watch their armiur advantage disappear and you will have AT ready for their first medium.

    I understand that Puma can be used as a means to counter AEC, STUART and T70. That is it is even potent against even vs medium tanks. AEC is also potent vs medium tank I believe too, maybe STUART but not T70.

    Difference really is if Puma wins, yes there is no threat from AEC but it does not have that capability against infantry like AEC, not that it should have but I do not think considering the price is the same, AEC should not get it either.

    Puma and AEC are the same price, the clear difference really is AEC is good against infantry also which Puma does not have. Should Puma get its capabilities against infantry too, or what is it exactly that make Puma stand out in terms of AT, or should AEC get a nerf in terms of against Infantry which Puma does not have for the same cost?

    Puma and AEC differences

    AEC:
    1. Stun ability "Target Tread (alike)
    2. Smoke Screen (same)
    3. Emergence War speed (different)
    4. Good Against Infantry (different)
    5. Armour that does not get damaged by small arms (does not happen except with axis HMG with "incendary rounds")
    6. Health (same)
    7. Manoeuvrability (same or alike)

    PUMA:
    2. Stun ability (alike)
    3. Smoke Screen (same)
    4. Does not have war speed
    5. Not good against infantry, it can but it is not advisable.
    6. Armour weaker, exposed to small arms
    7. Health (same)
    8. Manoeuvrability (same or alike)

    There is a clear distinction between to two vehicles for the same price but AEC is overall better. Puma is only a counter against vehicles. AEC the same but it is also a counter against infantry. Bofors are sacrificed for AEC, that is how the tech tree works.

    I do not think there is as much benefits as having an AEC, cost effective as for OKW they have to buy Luchs in order to do exactly the way AEC performs against units.
    You see the difference right?

    That is why Luchs is not good. When you play OKW use Luchs, you will see how it is harder to get kills than the other allied vehicles mentioned which does it with far greater ease.

  • #18
    4 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > That is why Luchs is not good. When you play OKW use Luchs, you will see how it is harder to get kills than the other allied vehicles mentioned which does it with far greater ease.

    Luchs isn't as good as lights that cost more and arrive later. How is this a problem?
  • #19
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 812

    Its a problem cause its pointless to even bother using it when its a better strategy to spam volks and rekens. Using AEC is always a good idea. Stewart is always a good idea. T70 is always insanely bs OP. Pz2 is...... always a bad idea. See the difference?

  • #20
    4 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @ARMYguy said:
    > Its a problem cause its pointless to even bother using it when its a better strategy to spam volks and rekens. Using AEC is always a good idea. Stewart is always a good idea. T70 is always insanely bs OP. Pz2 is...... always a bad idea. See the difference?

    No actually I don't. Using AEC is always a good idea because using the Bofors is a HORRIBLE one. It's an AA gun that can't even shoot down aircraft. There's zero reason to ever get it, so you might as well grab an AEC.

    Getting 2 6lbers and rushing a centaur can be a better idea. I see it done all the time in 2v2s by my partner to great success.
  • #21
    4 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,802
    @Balanced_Gamer your comparing a generalist to a specialist and even in your comparison you are skewing it to favour your argument. The AEC won't have warspeed until hammer is teched, hardly a reasonable thing to add to the comparison, secondly you are ignoring the range advantage of the puma and the power of aimed shot which is only vet 1.
    It will engine damage lights, lock the turret on tanks, stun assault guns and force weapon teams to redeploy. It doesn't have the raw killing power but as a support unit it is superb AND you are making certain the enemy lights who have all their points in aggressive combat stats have to be defensive or dead. 10/10 times I will pick the puma over the AEC because from the moment it's available it is viable and scales well.
  • #22
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 186
    edited March 4

    Here is a video of Luchs performance against infantry. Watch this video of Twitch streamer FaHu playing as OKW, he used Luchs 3 times in the match, although you can get it early, it easily be countered by Penals with ease, if a mistake was made which FaHu did by accident with the first Luchs. T70s chance of survival in comparison to Luchs is bigger. Watch it and give your opinions please about it!

    FaHu is very good player, I am quite many of you are aware of FaHu.

    Match Analysis of Luchs performance:

    Match starts 01:12:34

    Gets Luchs 01:19:47 , you can see how it performs, yes you get it early, but performs... ok but not for its price, just judge it for yourself. See its firepower against infantry. It should be

    Loses it to Penals with PTRS 01:21:43, Satchel Charge is the strongest grenade (high explosive) in game. 3/4 of health taken with one satchel only, dont know the exact the damage it does but easily counters Luchs, if ambushed or surprised.

    T70 comes and another Luchs shortly after around 01:22:53.

    It means that you have roughly a benefit of 2:30 to 3 min against SOV only, other factions, you are aware of when STUART and AEC's arrival. Both of them come earlier. Easy counter would be at least one Penal with PTRS to scare the Luchs.

    An opportunity to see the difference in performance between the two vehicles

    01:23:33, Luchs vs T70. Luchs shots mostly ricocheting the T70 while has an easier time penetrating Luchs. T70 as you can see although price difference in fuel is 10 extra for T70.

    Loses another Luchs against Penals 01:24:51. SU has units that can easily counter with mobile AT early on (although you sacrifice inf firepower, it is still not completely gone, still can combat but worse).

    Gets another Luchs 01:26:00. It does not survive long either.

    In Conclusion
    If Luchs gets a buff then increase its price also by 10 fuel. I seriously would not mind that change myself. As it currently is in comparison T70, it performs better for its price. Luchs not as much. That time gap is not that big a difference compared to the rest of the whole game. I do believe it needs improvements. It should be able to last long too. T70 generally last long, if not longer than Luchs because it shreds against infantry better, simply stands a better chance. It is just as simple as that.

    The fact it can easily be countered by allied AT, most mobile infantry units or light AT vehicles is the reason as to why I believe it should get a buff.

    Get back its performance as it once was (to stand out a little more) or slightly improve it and if changes are to be made, just increase it by 10 fuel to make it balanced or more if you think it is deemed necessary according to its performance.

    You can see how difficult it was for him to go up against Soviets. It is not easy playing as OKW. He backed more times with Luchs than T70 against a mobile AT squad. OKW is not strong or OP, I do not see how it is that strong. Just an improved faction compared to Wehrmacht. Wehr has better team weapons accessibility than OKW I think personally.

    In early game you see SU had the upper with Scout Car, but FaHu a smart player countered him. That is certainly a vehicle that comes early too right?

    Luchs can easily be countered by one Penal squad. If you put it in a duel. Luchs and a Penal with PTRS. Penal takes an average loss of around 2-3 guys. It is that bad. If it were T70, I bet it might survive a better chance.

    I think it should overall get a buff with an increase in the price of fuel if that happens. I most certainly would not mind that change myself, as you can see during the gameplay, it was not really standing out as it should for its cost. Time was not a real huge distinction. I think it needs accuracy improvements especially on the move. That is all.

    **Answer this Question Please!!!
    **
    Do you think Luchs should get a buff at a cost of increase in fuel by 10 or more? Accuracy improvements mostly and slightly with survivability.

  • #23
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 812
    edited March 4

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    > @ARMYguy said:
    > Its a problem cause its pointless to even bother using it when its a better strategy to spam volks and rekens. Using AEC is always a good idea. Stewart is always a good idea. T70 is always insanely bs OP. Pz2 is...... always a bad idea. See the difference?

    No actually I don't. Using AEC is always a good idea because using the Bofors is a HORRIBLE one. It's an AA gun that can't even shoot down aircraft. There's zero reason to ever get it, so you might as well grab an AEC.

    Getting 2 6lbers and rushing a centaur can be a better idea. I see it done all the time in 2v2s by my partner to great success.

    You dont have to make a AEC, or a bofors, you could just skip building it and make croms. Know why everyone makes AEC? cause it's always a good idea. No one can prove why making a luchs is ever a good idea, but its easy to prove its always a bad one.

  • #24
    4 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited March 4
    > @ARMYguy said:
    > You dont have to make a AEC, or a bofors, you could just skip building it and make croms.

    Dude in the post you quoted I literally just gave you an example of ignoring both and rushing a centaur with 2x AT gun support. Which I've seen done very effectively.


    > @ARMYguy said:
    > Know why everyone makes AEC? cause it's always a good idea. No one can prove why making a luchs is ever a good idea, but its easy to prove its always a bad one.

    Is that why pros build the luchs so often? Because you can prove its a bad idea?

    @Balanced_Gamer So you're saying the luchs isn't good enough because of this replay? This replay shows exactly why it can't be any stronger. He got one at 7 MINUTES.

    If you want the luchs to be better, you better be prepared for a good sized cost increase.
  • #25
    4 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,595

    @ARMYguy said:
    You dont have to make a AEC, or a bofors, you could just skip building it and make croms. Know why everyone makes AEC? cause it's always a good idea. No one can prove why making a luchs is ever a good idea, but its easy to prove its always a bad one.

    And you know why its a good idea?

    To not get roflstomped by FHT or luchs.

  • #26
    4 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Luchs has terrible accuracy on move, i dont see how you get roflstomp? Fht is only good to delay sector. Brit can get quick at gun. Hell aec rolfstomp all axis light vehicles until p4, which will be delay if getting luch or fht.

    Now what does people think of t70 taking only 6 popcap? lower than 1 gren/volk squad? Same pop size as luch and fht?

    Or you just keep quiet and enjoy another relic oversight, still retaining Soviet faction uniqueness after all the balancing?

    T70 cost only 260mp and 70fu. Look at how much ac, luch, fht, flameht cost...

    At vet1, t70 becomes a super kubel with capture unlock.

    Another reason for Soviet totally dominant now. Combine with Brit hardiness and brens spam, as with usf rifles spam, relic needs to relook 4v4 same way as panther 'spam' nerfs.
  • #27
    4 months ago
    DarjeelingMK7Darjeelin… Posts: 244
    edited March 5
    Why are you guy keep compare an anti infantry specialist to a generalist ?
    T70 is completely on a higher tech lv and it arrive at least 3min later than pz2.
    The p2 use to dominate UKF because they dont have snare until very recently.

    Brit can have quick AT while OKW have free AT on 1st building.
  • #28
    4 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Except for generalist t70 is very good to wipe 2-3 man in 1 shot. What is so special about luch now? Move acc 0.3 is pure bad.

    This is problem we highlight to relic to fix.
    T70 is too cheap, luch is too bad specialist.

    In 4v4, brit blob with brens just stand and wipe even retreating axis infantry.

    All these little faction unique cheese is strong with current allies meta.
  • #29
    4 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 393

    Someone keep complaining a light tank comes at 6min & another comes at 10min.

    With 200fuel income, Soviet can get a single T70 OR SU76 and have 20fuel left. But OKW can get a Luch & a Puma.
    If you're not willing to build a Puma to defense Luch from a T70, but rather try to save fuel for Panther or King. It's your choice to have your Luch being dominated, not the game.

    Only Stuart & AEC are Luch's problem because they come earlier and strong than Luch. Its smart to get a Puma instead. If you see a Stuart & AEC and still decided to get a Luch. It's your choice to have your Luch being dominated, not the game.

    With 300fuel available, you get a King. If I pick 2 Sherman instead of 2 Jackson, its my choice to lose the game, not balance.

  • #30
    4 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Except puma is doctrine, and puma commanders are not as good. Look at gcs, a lot of axis play had to lock in early puma because of t70 and generally fast allies Shermans, they ended up suffering late games.

    So unless relic throw in useful abilities with puma commander (like IS tanks and il2), or make puma something like m10 wolverines, power in mass. Puma commander to counter t70 makes suffering. Game over once the first t34 or Sherman comes out.

    Address the elephant here instead of kicking down the can.

    why is t70 takes up so low popcap, why it can capture pt, why luch and ostwind has terrible AI hits, why punish luch with 0.3 mov accuracy?
  • #31
    4 months ago
    DarjeelingMK7Darjeelin… Posts: 244
    Puma is doctrinal? LOL. Nice joke, but it is not funny at all. You must stat the game now and play OKW.
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