WER & OBW - All - Panzerschreck upgrade

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Comments

  • #32
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @mrgame2 said:
    Ptrs do have 3 times the rof, so that also equals out. Like i say shrek and ptrs are in good place, unlike TS calling for nerf to only shrek.

    And less then half penetration, long aiming time compared to shrecks 360 no scope instashot.

    PTRS DPS against med ranks is so low that its not even funny, exclusively ostwind has low enough armor for PTRS to do something and still it needs to be extended over time, giving a lot of time to run/attack while taking minor chip damage.

    AT that doesn't burst is bad.
    PTRS is not burst weapon.

    Shrecks can instakill M3 or UC.
    PTRS isn't even a threat to Kubel unless its not being micro'd.

    Stop being so delusional.

  • #33
    1 year ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Shreks cant insta kill uc or m3 unless they not micro. A simple reverse click has good chance shrek miss.

    Besides no one think shrek and ptrs are bad spot except TS.

    I do however fine at satchel too punishing and game turning for its availability and cost. Either change to gun destroy or extend the timer by 50% more.
  • #34
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    240 damage vs 200-240 hp means instakill when it connects.

    You can't reverse out of ambush/unlucky push.

    You are perfectly safe in case of PTRS you try to portray as even remotely comparable.

    AT satchel is SUPPOSED TO BE PUNISHING.
    It literally is designed to be a PUNISH ability for trying to exploit PTRS long aiming time by pushing them, you had this explained like a million times now, its high time to let it sink in.

  • #35
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807

    As I remember, Kubel UC M3 hp is around 220hp.
    3 Ptrs will do 120dmg in the 1st second. Then another 120dmg in the 3rd second
    2 Shreck will do 240dmg in the 1st second. Then another 240dmg in 6-7th second

    Thats mean Kubel actually has 2second to react, which is not enough.
    While UC M3 is much easier, they dont need to react and retreat. Because they are already dead.

  • #36
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @C3Tooth said:
    As I remember, Kubel UC M3 hp is around 220hp.
    3 Ptrs will do 120dmg in the 1st second. Then another 120dmg in the 3rd second
    2 Shreck will do 240dmg in the 1st second. Then another 240dmg in 6-7th second

    Thats mean Kubel actually has 2second to react, which is not enough.
    While UC M3 is much easier, they dont need to react and retreat. Because they are already dead.

    Everything you've said about PTRS is incorrect.
    First, Guards and penals have 2 PTRS, only tank hunter conscripts have 3.
    Second, PTRS takes about 3 seconds before it takes first shot and that is if you're lucky and entities with it do not start dancing like they often tend to, while shrecks take about half a second.

  • #37
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited March 2019

    Im so sorry for bias-ing Axis

  • #38
    1 year ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 2019

    And there goes all the effort on trying to deny how strong Panzerschrecks are atm.

    Great video @C3Tooth

    After watching this video I realized that RTS rifles need higher AP values, to stay at the same level of efficiency as their counterparts Panzerschrecks.

    Either way Panzerschrecks still require nerfs such as range, accuracy and/or damage output.

    How can we check if an Admin from Relic has reviewed recent topics from the forum, like this one?
    .

  • #39
    1 year ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    Pg should need around 1.3 secs to fire first shot.

    Guards should need around 1.7-2.3.

  • #40
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited March 2019

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    And there goes all the effort on trying to deny how strong Panzerschrecks are atm.
    After watching this video I realized that RTS rifles need higher AP values, to stay at the same level of efficiency as their counterparts Panzerschrecks.

    Uhh no. If that's what you got out of the video then you really need to play the game more.

    First of all "AP values" have nothing to do with how long it takes to kill a kubel. Those shots weren't failing to penetrate.

    Second, you are completely ignoring ptrs penals ability to stick a satchel to the side of tanks that can kill the engine. Pgrens have nothing like that.

    Third, let's see what happens with guards (even without dps) and shreck pgrens against INFANTRY. Guard ptrs serve as effective Anti-infantry weapons as well.

    Fourth, are you really gonna base your ENTIRE analysis of two AT weapons on ONE video of them fighting against the lightest vehicles in the game, while all parties involved were standing still? Jesus christ

  • #41
    1 year ago

    To be quite honest, the snare of the scatchel is perfectly fine because its almost the only chance as a russian to reliable way to conter a dive with a panther from getting your katushas for example. The only other way of doing this is by the AT grenades from cons or mines, and with both methods you are gambling.

    Meanwhile the Germans have the Panzerfaust wich is ok balanced but is a snare ~90 percent of the time, has an good range(penals have a 5 m range!) and the mainline infantry(spamed) is equiped with it from almost the getgo. In combination with the low health from most allied tanks and good AT from the germans(7,5mmPaK, Panzerschrecks, Raketenwerfer43, Panther, etc...) a snare from the germans is many times deadly for the tank (if on the front line of course).

  • #42
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807

    He doesnt complain PTRS on Guard, he does on PTRS with ATsachel package on Penal are a great combo
    So we ignore Guard & Cons ATpackage

    Penal & Gren on medium tanks

  • #43
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited March 2019

    @C3Tooth said:
    He doesnt complain PTRS on Guard, he does on PTRS with ATsachel package on Penal are a great combo
    So we ignore Guard & Cons ATpackage

    I'm not sure what you're talking about here, he's complaining that shrecks are too strong. That's what this thread is about.

    It's my opinion that all ptrs squads and shreck squads are mostly fine.

    In your last video, idk why you show the time to kill. That is wildly irrelevant given that one of those tanks could back up and run away at full speed, the other had a dead engine.

  • #44
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited March 2019

    I dont try to prove PTRS worse, its someone tries to prove everything from Axis is at the bottom (T70 comes 4mins late but able to harm Luch. Bofor is stronger than OKW PzHQ tech. Panther can not fight Firefly. Panther can not flank Churchill because ATguns are behind. Ost weapon team can not compete, Allied infantry snare animation too fast...and the list go on)

    Both are fine, I dont complain either both of them. 3 PanzerGrens can delete a medium in under 3sec. And we see Penal PTRS without ATsachel barely make it works. Atsachel is truly needed to defend a rush (with most of the time, Panther rush in to kill a Kat).

    I try to prove everything has its pros & cons.

  • #45
    1 year ago
    C3Thooth Why don't you answer my question frist?If shreck truely OP then why don't pro player spam the crap out of it??
  • #46
    1 year ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 2019

    C3 your video is no representation of actual game and showing nothing new.
    We know Shrek have explosive damage IF it hits.
    UC window is up to T2 but any UC micro knows to gtfo when they see shrek pg, and often Shrek misses on light small target size vehicles, instakill is really bad or sleeping micro.

    Ptrs shine in actual game against micro axis vehicles up to T4, 3x ptrs x3 rof over Shrek can still inflict damages, but no one is disputing Shrek is more directly useful.

    Besides the new commander update will give Pg satchels! And of course Pio repair speed upgrade to Brit assualt sapper speed.

    It will be interesting to see if Alles player practice what they preach of deterrance against snare + 340hp damage.

    To be fair, i expect satchel + shrek pg deadly, which is good against Allies superior armor, but the only way i see this work is to, like i advice, replace engine damage with gun destory. Fair and square, easy balance.

  • #47
    1 year ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 2019

    In any case, I'm sure everyone would be glad if Allies factions receive an upgrade with same stats as the panzerschrecks, I mean ... everyone is defending how they are not strong at all lol

    @mrgame2 if it hits? Try actually missing with panzerschrecks lol

  • #48
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    In any case, I'm sure everyone would be glad if Allies factions receive an upgrade with same stats as the panzerschrecks, I mean ... everyone is defending how they are not strong at all lol

    Well, there are elite bazookas from IR paratroopers and at time it was implemented, the authistic screeching from axis fanbois was loud and long, even certain individual made everything doing vacuum math to prove how op it is only to be hit with brick of reality straight in the face and contrary to his delusional theory, neither doctrine nor the weapon became meta choice. Its still potent choice, but not as strong as shrecks with its 100 dmg.

  • #49
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    In any case, I'm sure everyone would be glad if Allies factions receive an upgrade with same stats as the panzerschrecks, I mean ... everyone is defending how they are not strong at all lol

    They don't need it. Why add something that's unnecessary?

    Have you ever used tank-hunter conscripts? Cause I would take them over shreck pgrens any day of the week, and their 100mp cheaper. The camo combined with the AT nade assault is ferocious, you can easily instagib lights (far more easily than with pgrens) and seriously cripple the heaviest of tanks. They are only balanced by the commander they come on, otherwise they'd be crazy OP.

  • #50
    1 year ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 2019

    @SkysTheLimit limiting myself to only picking a specific commander to get panzerschrecks on infantry?

    No thanks at all, I will take panzerschrecks without any restriction any day!

    Btw they are Partisans, not conscripts ... meaning they are far weaker and inaccurate. So I take your deal! Swapping Partisans for Axis infantry with panzerschrecks 100% of times.

  • #51
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    > @Patrol_Omega said:
    > @SkysTheLimit limiting myself to only picking a specific commander to get panzerschrecks on infantry?

    No. Not to get panzershrecks on infantry. To get something much stronger than panzershrecks and cheaper.

    Are you saying you've never tried tank-Hunter conscripts? Not even once? Cause that would explain the narrow-minded approach you're taking to this debate
  • #52
    1 year ago

    They are cheaper because they are far squishier and with less accuracy. So I still hold my proposal of swapping them for Axis gameplay of having Panzerschercks without needing a commander to get them.

    Now imagine getting the new 250MP Panzerfusilliers!!! buffed with 2 Panzerschercks. Those items definitely need nerfs since they don't have any doctrinal restriction, aside from the already outstanding long range, almost perfect accuracy and damage output of course.

    There is no significant effort on playing Axis factions. Especially the OBW still getting more buffs instead of nerfs to its easy gameplay.

  • #53
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    They are cheaper because they are far squishier and with less accuracy.

    What does this even mean? The tank hunters have less accuracy? Ptrs rarely miss tanks, and its impossible to miss most of the larger ones. The AT grenade assault doesnt need accuracy. Just camo up, and ambush the vehicle. Try using the commander, its really really strong.

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    There is no significant effort on playing Axis factions. Especially the OBW still getting more buffs instead of nerfs to its easy gameplay.

    So now you're not even sticking to an argument anymore. You're just saying axis needs nerfs across the board.

  • #54
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    They are cheaper because they are far squishier and with less accuracy.

    What does this even mean? The tank hunters have less accuracy? Ptrs rarely miss tanks, and its impossible to miss most of the larger ones. The AT grenade assault doesnt need accuracy. Just camo up, and ambush the vehicle. Try using the commander, its really really strong.

    Actually, that's true only for Guards PTRS.

    Penal and Con PTRS can miss even 16 size target at long range(17plus is 100% hit chance if we don't take into account additional modifiers, like blitz), meaning they have a fair chance to miss lights, not as much as in case of other AT weapons, but its still possible.

  • #55
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    @Katitof If you read what you quoted you'll see the I said they "rarely miss tanks" and that its only impossible to miss the larger tanks. You didn't say anything different...

    Even conscript ptrs are much more accurate than shrecks, so his point was flat out wrong
  • #56
    1 year ago

    @SkysTheLimit panzerschrecks barely miss so your point is totally pointless, you need to see the videos from this post or at least go and try it yourself in cheat mod to compare efficiency between both weapons.

    There is no denial on how fast can they destroy enemy tanks (with very high accuracy, range, and burst damage) compared to PTRs Dot rifles and if you think different, then go and create your own post asking Axis factions to get Ptrs rifles instead of Panzerschrecks due to their no comparison efficiency lol ....

    Ptrs rifles definitely need to get buffed or Pzrs nerfed.

  • #57
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited March 2019

    It can not. Ptrs always come with something

    • Penal with ATsachel
    • Cons with squad ATnade
    • Guard with buttoned

    Shreck still come with 340mp squad, Ptrs come with cheaper squad. Both of them are ok.
    Edit: (But I cant image the future Fusilier 250mp though, with 5men, 40ammo all infantry sprint burst 20sec)

  • #58
    1 year ago

    @mrgame2 what Allied tank is superior to the Axis equvalent ?!?

  • #59
    1 year ago

    @C3Tooth Actually not true. Panzerschrecks can be upgraded to

    • 300mp Sturmpioneer Squad
    • 250mp Panzerfusilliers, gets x2 Schrecks

    Besides the unit that you limited yourself to mention before.

  • #60
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited March 2019

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    There is no denial on how fast can they destroy enemy tanks (with very high accuracy, range, and burst damage) compared to PTRs Dot rifles and if you think different, then go and create your own post asking Axis factions to get Ptrs rifles instead of Panzerschrecks due to their no comparison efficiency lol ....

    If you would just learn to read you will see that my ENTIRE point accepts that ptrs are the worst AT weapons. I will say it AGAIN for you, all of the ptrs squads make up for that lower effectiveness by having snares available to them.

    Penals have sticky satchels, gaurds have button (and are still strong against infantry), conscripts have camo and the AT nade assault. These snares are the reason there is nothing wrong with ptrs. Shreck squads do not have snares

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    @SkysTheLimit panzerschrecks barely miss so your point is totally pointless

    I only brought up ptrs accuracy because you incorrectly suggested they were less accurate than panzershrecks. If you weren't mistaken about your facts, then I wouldn't have brought it up at all.

  • #61
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807

    @Patrol_Omega come on, dont try to grab everything to prove Allied is far worse than Axis like mrgame does with the Axis

    • Sturmpion 300mp come with a single shreck. 1200mp for 4squad - 4 Shreck still not able to destroy a medium in a single burst
    • Fusilier is not happen (yet). And if it does in a spamable way like Jeager, it will be nerfed in under 2 weeks.
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