OKW - New Commander Mod Official Discussion

24

Comments

  • #32
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 211

    @Mr_Ruin Finally a coherent and objective point of view. The person who proposed these new abilities definitely knew what you are outlining, this new Commander will create unrest among players.

    For example

    • Panzerfusiliers got their price reduced and enabled at the initial HQ, however, they haven't got their stats and grenades restrictions modified in order to be coherent with the initial 4 minutes into the game the least. They should require a granade upgrade to unclock it.
    • 250mp units running faster with 2 Shrecks equipped? Go in, delete an enemy tank in 2 seconds and press R (Infantry with Panzerschrecks shouldn't receive the movement speed buff)

    Amongst subjects mentioned in the previous comment.

  • #33
    3 months ago

    After playing with the Command Tiger for a bit, I'm finding I rarely get it to vet 4 let alone vet 5. The whole point of its command ability is to be used, yet it almost never will be since its difficult to get vet 4 especially late in the game. Perhaps bumping these down a veterancy would let them be used more while still keeping overuse to a minimum.

  • #34
    3 months ago

    Panzerfüsilier

    Hand grenade should unlock the same way as the Volk Flame grenade

    AT-grenade should require 1 half track deployed like the Volk snare

    two Panzerschrecks are way to powerful when combined vet 5 passive sprint. As an alternative I suggest:

    Light-AT Package

    squad size increase from 5 to 6
    squad gains 2 AT rifles
    can lay teller mines

  • #35
    3 months ago
    Aleksi134Aleksi134 Posts: 1

    Infrared obersoldaten
    This ability is not very useful due to the heavy cost of it in the munitions and obersoldate arriving so late game. I felt that this could be replaced by something more useful or even reverse back to the option of having the volks assault package. I feel that with the MG as an option for obersoldaten and the STGs costing 120 muns, its not worth picking this upgrade.

  • #36
    3 months ago

    Grand offensive 2.0

    im not a fan of the infrared STG 44 package, g43s Panzerfüsiliers do basically the same thing, and one thing OKW lacks is early/mid game LMG squad so here is my alternative

    Veteran grenadiers (new unit)

    Visual note: reuse Obersoldaten models and voice lines

    unlocks at 2CP

    Cost 300MP

    Squad size: 5

    Reinforce cost/time same as ostheer grenadiers

    abilities: rifle grenade

    upgrades LMG42

    Vet1: Unlocks the 'Field First Aid' ability

    Vet2: +40% accuracy,

    Vet3: -20% cooldown, -23% received accuracy

    Vet4: Rifle grenade 10% increased range -10% cooldown

    Vet:5: unlocks ambush camouflage

    what this units adds to Grand offensive is an early/mid game LMG squad that can provide LMG fire support for the Panzerfüsiliers whether they take a AT or AI role

  • #37
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 211

    @SomeguyfromIdaho The OKW already has the best tanks from the game, therefore they need to have weaknesses in the early game, which they barely have in the current state of the game. Now those Light Mgs are beast! No wonder why do you want them so bad.

  • #38
    3 months ago
    Sander93Sander93 Posts: 49
    edited March 30

    @Aleksi134 said:
    Infrared obersoldaten
    This ability is not very useful due to the heavy cost of it in the munitions and obersoldate arriving so late game. I felt that this could be replaced by something more useful or even reverse back to the option of having the volks assault package. I feel that with the MG as an option for obersoldaten and the STGs costing 120 muns, its not worth picking this upgrade.

    IR STG44 upgrade on Obersoldaten costs 60 munitions, not 120.

    60 munitions for one of the best weapon upgrades in the game is a bargain.

  • #39
    3 months ago
    SomeguyfromIdahoSomeguyfr… Posts: 79
    edited March 30

    @Patrol_Omega

    If you think giving them LMG42 would be OP how about captured DP-28s? the theme i'm going with the Veteran grenadiers is harden eastern front veterans being transfer to the western front.

  • #40
    3 months ago
    freejones12freejones… Posts: 51
    edited March 30

    Infrared STGs is an awful trade-off. Obers are already scarcely used, and I can't see much reason to use the STG over the already powerful LMG 42. I was excited we finally were getting a unit that can match soviet shock troops more available, not the least used ability of special operations. It seems each of these commanders is only allowed 4 good abilities, and 1 useless one.

  • #41
    3 months ago
    Sander93Sander93 Posts: 49

    @freejones12 said:
    Infrared STGs is an awful trade-off. Obers are already scarcely used, and I can't see much reason to use the STG over the already powerful LMG 42. I was excited we finally were getting a unit that can match soviet shock troops more available, not the least used ability of special operations. It seems each of these commanders is only allowed 4 good abilities, and 1 useless one.

    You seem to completely underestimate the power of the IR STG44 for Obersoldaten. It's basically the best squad in the game. Arguably even better than the LMG34 because the IR weapons get a 0.9 accuracy modifier versus units in cover (while almost all other weapons get 0.5 modifier). It's an extremely powerful upgrade.

    Volks MP40s do not stand up to Shocktroopers. They get completely slaughtered. In fact, ironically, IR STG44 Obers is the only Axis squad in the game that can handily beat Shocktroopers head-on.

    And the ability is there to keep the commander's power level in check. It's already very good/meta with Panzerfusiliers and the Tiger, and Stuka Smoke and Tactical Movement on top of that. Every good/meta commander already in the game has an ability that is average or situational to balance it out. Lighting War has "Relief Infantry", German Infantry has "Assault and Hold", Recon Support has "Raid Tactics", Spec Ops has "Radio Silence", etc etc. You can't just slap 5 powerful on a single commander and expect it to be balanced.

  • #42
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 211
    edited March 31

    @SomeguyfromIdaho I've noticed how everyone is trying to mix the better units from each Axis faction lol
    I wish Soviets could get light mg upgrades on their regular army, having those weapons become very useful.

  • #43
    3 months ago

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    @SomeguyfromIdaho I've noticed how everyone is trying to mix the better units from each Axis faction lol
    I wish Soviets could get light mg upgrades on their regular army, having those weapons become very useful.

    The Axis factions are popular so of course people want new things for axis

    I've been wanting dp28s for conscripts since the game came out, but it never seems to happen

  • #44
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,802

    @freejones12 said:
    Infrared STGs is an awful trade-off. Obers are already scarcely used, and I can't see much reason to use the STG over the already powerful LMG 42. I was excited we finally were getting a unit that can match soviet shock troops more available, not the least used ability of special operations. It seems each of these commanders is only allowed 4 good abilities, and 1 useless one.

    maybe @vipper can workj his magic to show you how incredibly powerful the IR stgs are.
    from memory they have some of the best close range DPS in the game, as well as ignoring cover

    they are an aggressive alternative to the attack movey lmg34
    try em out seriously and you might be pleasantly surprised

  • #45
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,722

    Total DPS for ST44 Ober is

    58.6/51.1/29/19.4 at ranges 0/10/20/30

    For comparison Shock troops have
    85.3/85.3/9.9/0.7

  • #46
    3 months ago
    MrWhiteMrWhite Posts: 2

    Panzerfusiliers shreck upgrade is just OP. already sick of people spamming PZgrens with schrecks now the same problem will be faced by allies even with OKW and with cherry on top 5man squad.

  • #47
    3 months ago
    Sander93Sander93 Posts: 49
    edited March 31

    @Vipper said:

    Total DPS for ST44 Ober is

    58.6/51.1/29/19.4 at ranges 0/10/20/30

    For comparison Shock troops have
    85.3/85.3/9.9/0.7

    Raw DPS is only half the story, as IR STG44 also have:

    • 0.9 accuracy modifier versus cover (PPSH have 0.5);
    • 75% of total squad DPS concentrated in two transferable weapons so most DPS is kept until the last two models;
    • 0.9 moving accuracy (PPSH have 0.8);
    • a very good DPS curve at all ranges while PPSH completely drop off between range 10 and 15 (this isn't as clear in the distances you chose for comparing DPS).

    (They do not completely ignore cover like JLI or snipers because they still have a 0.5 damage modifier versus heavy cover that all weapons get.)

  • #48
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,802
    Thank you @vipper and @Sander93 for helping show how bloody great the ability is.
  • #49
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,722
    edited March 31

    @Sander93 said:
    Raw DPS is only half the story, as IR STG44 also have:

    • 0.9 accuracy modifier versus cover (PPSH have 0.5);
    • 75% of total squad DPS concentrated in two transferable weapons so most DPS is kept until the last two models;
    • 0.9 moving accuracy (PPSH have 0.8);
    • a very good DPS curve at all ranges while PPSH completely drop off between range 10 and 15 (this isn't as clear in the distances you chose for comparing DPS).

    (They do not completely ignore cover like JLI or snipers because they still have a 0.5 damage modifier versus heavy cover that all weapons get.)

    Accuracy modifier vs cover are not important in CQC due to point blank mechanism.

    The comparison with Shock troops is not really good because the unit serve different roles, they should be comparade with ranges or SMG paratroopers.

    I simply provided the stat that although the ST44 has good close DPS that does not make ST44 obers able to fight other elite CQC infatry at point blank.

    Ober ST44 are good and they should be used in mid range preferably from cover to cover fight.

    One could make ST44 ober a call in units and better design them for that role.

  • #50
    3 months ago
    > @Vipper said:

    > Ober ST44 are good and they should be used in mid range preferably from cover to cover fight.
    >
    > One could make ST44 ober a call in units and better design them for that role.

    That sounds like a great idea
  • #51
    3 months ago
    ColonelRadecColonelRa… Posts: 52
    edited March 31

    Replace Tactical Movement with 105 Barrage. Full honesty, I really dislike this ability, since doesn't offer much other than speed. Unlike Valiant Assault which at least it provides units a buff. But this won't be a good recommendation since obers will get STG and can be a tad too deadly. I prefer the artillery barrage since the Commanders theme is a combination of all units, Artillery, Air, Ground Troops and Vehicles. Since the artillery is missing this is a perfect replacement.

    The fusiliers can get a buff, but on the g43 upg. It's hard for them win any engagement vs other infantry even with the package. They were strong before the nerf, because of the vet bonuses and the pop. But now an 8 pop squad(same as penals) that has trouble on all ranges vs other squads it ain't that much worth it for it's abilities. Maybe switch their rifles for panzer grens version of g43 would make it more appealing, it can use take the two weapon slots and adds the flare ability. Vet 1 can be a bonus to sight when in cover. Not a fan of the teller mines, but of the schrecks yes! Replace with tank sense(same as Tank hunter section) or work the same as hammer tactics when they hit vehicles.

    I prefer the Mp40 package over the STG one. The only thing I don't like about it is mess of grenades, why not just give the smoke and remove scavenge to clean up a little the UI. Or combined them? But needs to be under surveillance just in case it becomes a little too much.

  • #52
    3 months ago
    Mr_RuinMr_Ruin Posts: 92

    I was thinking a bit about Tactical movement in this commander and I think it is not that useful with the rest of the things you get. Your main infantry (fusiliers) is long ranged and even Obers have quite ok long range attack (and their main use is to counteract close range troops trying to kill your fusiliers) so there is not that much need for sprinting. And you get stuka smoke to close distance.

    Also the main weakness in this commander is being munition starved. Upgrading fusiliers is 90 or 120mun. Obers are 60, Stuka smoke is 40mun, put a couple of grenades, heals and a minesweeper in the equation and there is never enough munitions.

    Unless that is as intended to counteract the rest of commander's strenghts (works in 1v1 and maybe 2v2 while in bigger matches there will be caches) I think it could be replaced with something to get more munitions.

    So what do you think about Tactical movement being replaced with Thorough salvage? Or if you want something from Ost then a Cargo Truck or Supply Drop zone? It helps the rest of the things this commander has and is also tematic (late war German Offensives were fuel and munition starved so they scavenged, stole and macgyvered just to make ends meet).

  • #53
    3 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    Panzer Commander and a Tiger with a veteran Command ability? Hmmm. How long is that going to last?

  • #54
    3 months ago
    SomeguyfromIdahoSomeguyfr… Posts: 79

    @PanzerFutz said:
    Panzer Commander and a Tiger with a veteran Command ability? Hmmm. How long is that going to last?

    Yeah I thought using @Vipper 's idea of reworking IR stg44 into a callin unit was a much better option

  • #55
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,802
    I'm on the fence. I'd be happy to see either ability have more milage but also God damn. Every chance the KT gets to experience panzer commander there is a unit that locks it out in the commander....


    Side note, can we get the KT to be able to upgrade to the panzer commander and the MG again? The unit costs enough to be unique in that regard
  • #56
    3 months ago
    ReichsgardeReichsgar… Bad Tolz, Bayern, GermanyPosts: 121
    I don't know if it is a good idea to lock the Tiger 1 behind all tech buildings since that makes it rather pointless in my opinion. Locking it behind the Schwerer Panzer HQ seems sufficient.
  • #57
    3 months ago
    zn0207zn0207 Posts: 6

    I don't know if it is a good idea to lock the Tiger 1 behind all tech buildings.
    I really want to see tiger and king tiger fight in the same time.

  • #58
    3 months ago
    freejones12freejones… Posts: 51

    It kind of defeats the purpose of the KT to lock the regular tiger behind all buildings as well. Its also the only other unique tank to have this if I'm correct. Not the Sturmtiger, not the Command Panther, not the Jagdtiger. Only the regular Tiger and King Tiger? I guess the Tiger I is a little cheaper for being a little less good, but its still a strange choice.

  • #59
    3 months ago
    freejones12freejones… Posts: 51

    Also if I'm honest the only reason I'm biased against the IR STG's is because I think the in-game model looks kind of bad XD. Those IR scopes are so obnoxiously big.

  • #60
    3 months ago
    YanggesaisiYanggesai… Posts: 32

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    @SomeguyfromIdaho I've noticed how everyone is trying to mix the better units from each Axis faction lol
    I wish Soviets could get light mg upgrades on their regular army, having those weapons become very useful.

    Yeah, like "LMG Penal" or "shock LGM troops"....? If you are expecting something as a Soviet player, try that its commander. And I do not understand the one that you are expecting has any differences with Guards...

  • #61
    3 months ago
    YanggesaisiYanggesai… Posts: 32

    @SomeguyfromIdaho said:
    > @Vipper said:

    > Ober ST44 are good and they should be used in mid range preferably from cover to cover fight.
    >
    > One could make ST44 ober a call in units and better design them for that role.

    That sounds like a great idea

    Indeed, Ober in base means that, when they are showing up with 0 vet, the ememies are infantries carrying LMG in Vet2 and 3. How could you survive and grow up poor Ober....

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