Suggestion - Small soviet defensive tactics buff

#1
7 months ago

Hello,

I'm 100% sure that a lot of people like new commander patch, but especially, buffs for the underpowered ostheer units like panzergrenadiers and ostwind.

Here's my suggestion, can we slightly buff the most rare and underpowered commander for the soviets?

Let's be fair, this is one of the most underpowered commanders for the soviets in the game. Without any real late game ability, nearly every other commander is better than him thanks to the tanks, elite infantry, better abilities...

Also this commander doesn't really feel like a "defensive" commander, it feels more like a commander with every type of support weapon as a call-in and nothing else.

Here's my suggestion to buff him a bit along with the ostwind, stug, and pgren buffs:

Merge PMD-6 mines and Tank Trap abilities into one, and make it 0 or 1 CP

(You need 2 CP to make tank traps and mines? No thanks)

Give new defensive-oriented ability into empty slot

I have few suggestions:

152mm Howitzer would give him some real late-game ability, furthermore, it fits into "defensive" feel of this commander.

Just tell me, what would fit more into this commander if not FHQ? Urban defense commander would be still better thanks to the kv-2, shocktroops, and booby trap ability, and giving FHQ to the defensive tactics would be very nice altenartive.

And if for some strange reason you don't think that howitzer/FHQ is a good idea for this commander, booby trap territory ability would also fit this commander nicely.

I hope you liked it, and I welcome for the further discussion

Comments

  • #2
    7 months ago
    ThundragThundrag Posts: 4

    It should give soviets an mg emplacement like the rest of the defensive commanders if anything at 3cp, they have voice lines for mg emplacements being unlocked for soviets too in the files.

  • #3
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited April 17

    Exactly, an emplacement is the most needed defensive ability that Soviets are lacking and will die for.
    0 CP cheap mg emplacement and between a Forward Headquarters or just an AT airstrike.

  • #4
    7 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    During the last commander revamp, I suggested revamping the Soviet Defensive commander. I cited very similar reasons, namely that the Wehrmacht and OKW Defensive doctrines were much more powerful. Both doctrines have Pak43 emplacements and off-map artillery, with a couple of other powerful items thrown in for good measure. The Soviet doctrine has none of these and is sorely in need of a revamp.

    My suggestion looked like this:

    Alas, this commander wasn't chosen and remains as it is.

    At this point, I would change the Tank Traps to a suite of upgrades similar to those provided for the Wehrmacht's Defensive commander in the Defensive Fortifications item. This bundled Tank Traps with Concrete Bunkers for Pioneers so, there's no reason why something similar couldn't be done for Soviet Combat Engineers. An MG bunker could be used in place of the Concrete Bunker; all the assets are already in-game. It would also help if Conscripts were given some additional utility by allowing them to build wire and trenches.

    My suggestion removed the mines in favor of an Incendiary Barrage but, they could be retained by adding them to the Defensive Fortifications ability. This version still isn't as powerful as the German versions but, it is a lot better than what is currently on offer.

    Unfortunately, there is not a lot of incentive for Relic to change anything at this point. They are busy with the new commanders for now so, it may be a long time before they do another revamp (that is IF they ever do another one). If they do, I will support any campaign to have this commander strengthened. Cheers.

  • #5
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    If may I @PanzerFutz, the Anti Tank Ambush Tactic doesn't synergize well with the rest of abilities proposed, because if you are already getting a Mortar and a Mg it is most probable that you will skip your T2 and go for tanks. So perhaps adding an actual AT ability or squad might come in with better synergy.

    The Anti Personel Mines should cost 1CP to be kept.

    Btw is the tank trap barricade useful? I haven't tried out this Commander, but I do know it is in the bottom of Soviet Commanders from what I've read around several posts.

    An emplacement would be the most brilliant and quality of life addition to the Soviets.

  • #6
    7 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @Patrol_Omega Ah, you spotted what is, in fact, a mistake on my part. It was supposed to be Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics, not Anti-Tank Ambush Tactics, but I never got around to changing it. Tank Hunter Ambush is the more potent variation because, it can be used on the SU-76 & SU-85. When camouflaged, the SU-85 becomes one of the most dangerous weapons in the Soviet arsenal; only the ISU-152 outranks it.

    Either way, it's not about the synergy of the ability with other items in the roster. It's about using camouflage and surprise to trap enemy tanks inside kill zones. That's where the tank traps are useful. They can stop a tank from charging past the gun or out-flanking it. It works best on urban maps with limited avenues of approach.

    As I see it, the synergy of this doctrine flows the other way, with the other items supporting the AT elements of a player's force. The player would use the MG, mortar and incendiary barrage to fend off enemy infantry attempting to silence the AT guns, while the guns are busily destroying the enemy's most expensive assets. Anti-personnel mines also fit well in this scheme, as would MG bunkers. However, this doctrine really only suits a defensive-minded player (as the name suggests); it's not much use to an aggressive, attacking player.

    On your last point, the only emplacement the Soviets have is the ML-20 Howitzer and it has no defenses. It could be included instead of the barrage. On the plus side, it doesn't cost munitions to use and it can be fired into an area without spotting. On the minus side, it has a limited range (although quite large) and scatter is an issue when it's used defensively.

    If you are angling for a new unit, then you should know it is extremely unlikely that Relic will add any new units to the game; they have explicitly and repeatedly stated that it will not happen. The Soviets are (probably) never going to get an AT gun which is the equivalent of the Pak43. :'(

  • #7
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    Isn't the new Bunker for the Wehrmacht a new type of building or addition? But yes it might be asking too much, but by raising your voice, it might be heard eventually.

    Btw you can find the description of the ability you are looking for on the Tank Hunter Tactics Commander. Which btw needs a different image to differentiate it from the common ability that you posted, nice point.

  • #8
    7 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @Patrol_Omega "by raising your voice, it might be heard eventually" Well, it hasn't worked so far with the new British commander and I don't want to wait for another commander revamp to fix it. I've also seen numerous Russian players come and go because, no matter how many times they asked for new Soviet units, their requests were completely ignored. I've become used to being ignored and you'll get used to it too, eventually.

    As for a "new unit", they mean one which has to be designed and animated from scratch. The bunker is already an in-game asset so, technically they haven't added a new unit. I think they wanted to use the radar dish that can be seen in the picture but, although it's in the game, it's just a map element, not a working unit. Radio towers are the same but, there are some ToW scenarios and modded maps where they can be captured. I'm surprised they didn't use a radio tower for this item but, I believe it's because they want it to be garrisonable (in other words, it can be defended). Hence, they've used a bunker instead.

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