British and usf artillery

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  • #32
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    My main goal from the beginning was to have rocket artillery as an option non doctrin to allow for more options in the commanders.
  • #33
    4 months ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 931 mod

    Understand. Even rocket arty executes differently. For example you have a terrain denial type arty (or attrition) in Katy, Calliope and Land Mattress, or a more precise hit/miss type like the panzerwerfer. Perhaps something in between like a stuka. Which would you want to see in the USF arsenal as non-doctrinal?

    I guess the more important question is what would need to change in the USF unit capabilities (if any) to not put them out of balance? They generally bust up a defense now by superior smoke and maneuver as they can run and gun with the best of them. They already have non-doctrinal recon which is a HUGE enabler for rocket arty as it is generally not counter-able. They have a flexible and easily movable forward retreat point that no other faction has, the ability to keep veterancy for crews and of course to overbuild.

    With rocket artillery on top of these and many other unmatched enablers other factions would love to have would this be too much?

  • #34
    4 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74
    edited May 2

    @Rommel654 said:

    "They already have non-doctrinal recon which is a HUGE enabler for rocket arty as it is generally not counter-able."

    Sort of like the IR truck for the OKW, eh? Additionally, If I'm not mistaken, you need the major to be in a much closer vicinity to the recon sweep than what you get out of an IR truck

  • #35
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    Smoke won't counter multiple garrisoned units very well either other than allow your units to be suppressed as soon as they move through or smoke clears and grenades are a very costly option. Tanks even with smoke can be hit with attack ground before takeing down structures + enemy can simply reposition and or deny you with incindeary grenades and or off map call ins.
    I'm not positive but I believe wehrmacht can creat multiple retreat points even if not all useable at the same time, disable 1 on the far left re enable the other on the far right and you move to the other side of the map plus these positions are more durable than an infantry squad and have no upkeep or pop cap.
  • #36
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    edited May 2
    Further thought into your question. I dont think the rocket artillery needs to be as precise as a panzerwerfer or stuka just needs to soften up entrenched opponents. The mobile howitzers would fill the more precise roll and almost gaurentee takeing out support crews perhaps with less fired rounds but less of a cooldown waiting period as to be able to reposition and lookout for maneuvering crews although as is I just give them the stop command to begin cooldown early so it works. rocket arty would still be good with positioning and slightly longer cooldown as an area denial and softening of masses of entrenched foes sometimes even here i use the stop command only because it takes to long to fire and need to get out of that area.

    As far as dealing with smoke yes their are abilities like suppressive aircraft but also I would put a damper on smoke by working with the flame typ abilities as a denial tool of the once made movement opportunity created by the smoke, after all where there is smoke there is fire.
  • #37
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    Going with the idea of fire as area denial. If it comes to that point that changes were to actually be made here I would give more area coverage for incidiary with longer burn time but less damage over time. Increase damage to units in heavy cover or garrisons only as an option and I specify this without light cover because no one will be wanting to run through battle torn terrain with craters of light cover takeing bonus damage.
  • #38
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    edited May 2
    The thing with smoke is even your opponent can use that against you and especially if you are unable to capitalize on it your wasting munitions and just allowing opponent to also hide in it etcetra.

    Now with fire typ abilities being used it may even necessitate the use of light vehicles to capture points more often.
  • #39
    4 months ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 931 mod

    @Bloodygood said:

    @Rommel654 said:

    "They already have non-doctrinal recon which is a HUGE enabler for rocket arty as it is generally not counter-able."

    Sort of like the IR truck for the OKW, eh? Additionally, If I'm not mistaken, you need the major to be in a much closer vicinity to the recon sweep than what you get out of an IR truck

    I certainly agree the IR truck is a great enabler. With some practice, you will find the MAJ can throw recon pretty accurately from anywhere on the map. You don't have to limit to having the target in the circle. Too bad USF does not have snipers as with the MAJ, they would win most sniper fights.

    38Lighni..
    "I'm not positive but I believe wehrmacht can creat multiple retreat points even if not all useable at the same time, disable 1 on the far left re enable the other on the far right and you move to the other side of the map plus these positions are more durable than an infantry squad and have no upkeep or pop cap."

    Wehr can't have retreat points unfortunately. They can build reinforcement and healing bunkers and reinforce from a HT like most factions, but they retreat to their base.

    Smoke can be neutral, but not if you set the conditions. There is no one answer to most problems and even if it works once in a game, it likely will not work again if your opponent is in tune with what you are trying to do - so your smoke needs to set up a different purpose. The USF has the most free smoke of anyone. If you pop in a experienced squad in a M8 Scott, that free smoke can fire from practically across the map at vet 3. Smoke can divide enemy firepower, increase survivability and create diversion.

    All this takes increased micro and further planning ahead to use effectively. The advantage though is that there will quickly be no situation that the USF player can adjust to and defeat. The are flexible, but they gotta move to get inside the opponents planning and execution window. You have to change tactics and operational patterns every few minutes so he will build the wrong units and prepare for the wrong attacks.

  • #40
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    edited May 5
    So then wehrmacht and Soviets only two factions that have no retreat point interesting for some reason I thought wehrmacht had one.
    Although Soviet healing I think is a bit under whelming I usually give them a med truck since they cant build forward.

    I definately understand about dividing enemy forces with smoke.

    It is when they get a defensive line i have problems with hense I winde up picking the infantry company the majority of the time since it has alot of what I lack, better mines, off map I can call down with major recon or allies recon almost a must have when dealing with lefh artillery (I use to use 155mm barrage from mechanized). Mortar half track for the fire shells vs garrisons.

    Right Now it is almost a must have commander over the others in team match at least in 4v4 anyway if no one els has artillery except the Russians it becomes a forced decision rather than I think i would like to play with this commander.

    Their is a difference between oh I must have an easy 8 or (pershing which still comes in to late in the game anyway) and well i could just use a normal Sherman or Jackson even though they are not as good in some aspects vs I have or dont have artillery or off map barrage.

    Even if just the British got some artillery it would be better as to not be so heavily reliant on 1 nation to bring the majority of artillery to the table.

    As far as the recon sweep and snipers?

    I know some have asked for snipers idk if they are necessary or not but I dont think they would be overpowered with majors recon at tier 3. I dont think recon reveals camouflage and their are better options out there such as flares.
  • #41
    4 months ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 931 mod

    Most folks I know have the Infantry Commander in their USF lineup and agree that in many cases it has the tools needed for success in 4v4's. The other options outside of Calliope are very munition dependent.

    The recon planes do reveal cloaked units. Flares from OKW spec ops also do. Flares from mortars and snipers do not - if they do then I don't know the range that they do. I have not tested flares from Panzerfusaliers and riflemen or the Brit Arty and Commando Cdr. I suspect all off map flares do.

    When I'm in a sniper fight with the mix and I see a recon plane I usually just retreat the sniper. USF MAJ recon plane is quick and great for finding raks, illuminating enemy arty so you or a team mate can light it up.

    Probably my least favorite aspect of the game is the random plane crashes. With the MAJ recon, CAS recon, smoke bomb recon planes, Brit officer and some others you can control that somewhat.

    Against good players it is difficult to get call in arty on anything that moves. That is why I like the decoy marker from the MAJ and the quick barrage from the Pathfinders. They have about 3 seconds before they can't get out of the building in time. The decoy smoke and pathfinder quick barrage are very complimentary and if used a lot, will leave the enemy very frustrated over unnecessary retreats and lost support units from bad guessing.

    It also gives credit to your argument for non markered arty support.

  • #42
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    edited May 6
    Ya I dont like the random plane crashes either.

    You mentioned smoke bombs which I believe should be 75 muni at least since it serves a dual purpose and can be directed though I do love the use of it as such.

    Recon planes revealing camouflaged units idk how I feel about that.

    To me you would think a sniper in cover camouflaged would stay hidden unless they give away their position or spotted by a recon unit.

    Larger vehicles and maybe at guns being spotted would be different and should reveal them For a period of time after being spotted kinde of like a debuff.

    I wish lefh and the like remained on screen in the fog after being spotted by recon as well not like they move around much like other structures.

    I just realized the other day Sexton is much cheaper than priest is their a reason for this?
    I thought the Sexton stats were changed to be a replica of the priest.
  • #43
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    USF has a powerful mortar or Howizter which is the best in game. Very powerful and can be considered in many aspects like a small powerful arty. Damn that thing shreds infantry. Comes pretty early although costy. In team games, it is simply the best. 1 USF howizter is equivalent to 2 normal Axis mortars. That is how powerful it is. Direct Hit on squad, might lose 2-3 guys. Force them to retreat. It is damn powerful.

    UKF does have HQ base arty that requires IS to throw flare in order to coordinate arty, predictable but they have powerful arty against static units and defensive positions. Great for countering enemy artillery also if you manage to throw the flare on it. Has mortar emplacement which is good. Very supportive and strong.

    They also have doctrinal arty like units which are good. Axis require doctrine generals also to get artillery. I do not see why anyone should complain about it. Axis players have to equip generals also to get Artillery. Default, they do not have that great arty choices. They are ok. Although UKF and USF do not have late game mobile artillery options, they surely do have early-mid powerful light kind of arty. It is fine.

  • #44
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 294
    edited May 7
    Wehrmacht essentially has a heavy short range arty the brumbar and vet with a bunker buster ability. Okw has leigh which is a cheaper pack 75 and fits somewhere between a mortar and a pack 75 howitzer great combined with IR.

    In terms of resource preservation and blob wipeing or long range barrages the majors off map is not a comparison to mobile artillery units. Cost 60 munitions so cannot fire indefinitely through an entire match like mobile arty.

    (This also leads to a munitions savings that can be used in many other areas.)
    This is a big one.

    can only have 1 unit on the field (ukf shares cooldown) cant flare into the fog and super fragile much less survivable than any dedicated artillery piece.

    If we go with as you said and we dont need mobile artillery then ok but make up the differences between the two and bring the ability and the mobile artillery more in line with each other.

    Russians had their lower end artillery options like the su76 and at gun barrage added 30 munitions to fire cutting down on spam and the duel use nature these have as anti tank.

    So if we take this example and do the same thing to all mobile rockets and stationary howitzer pieces in the game it would cut down on spam and the (long range advantage on top of munitions savings) They all have but still offer a cheaper barrage than commander based artillery off maps while bringing them closer in line with ukf and usf stock ability off map options.

    This would atleast be a step in the right direction.
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