OKW - ALL - Raketenwerfer 43 Anti-Tank

#1
1 year ago

Problem

This AT gun is currently way too cheap and very cost-efficient, resulting in an overwhelming performance compared to any other AT gun from the game. Costing a mere 270MP and being able to recruit it from your initial HQ is just too out of sync with any other factions that are having to struggle recruiting expensive 320MP AT-guns with worst performances.

Allies AT guns are far more expensive but have worst performance, so why would that be? Enemy armor ** and **low chances to penetrate it

Even if the Raketenwerfer has "slightly weaker" stats, it comes out on top in performance, simply because Allies medium tanks have less armor but most importantly far fewer chances of bouncing enemy AT bullets. Resulting in squishy Allied tanks getting demolished by the cheapest AT in the game.

Just as a reminder: The Raketenwerfer 43 Anti-Tank has a faster rate of fire, movement speed, and rotation speed, not to mention that it already comes with camouflage unlocked, instead of getting it at Vet1. Additionally to that, this AT can penetrate around 90% of times against Allied medium tanks (extremely unbalanced stats for such a cheap T0 unit)

The mix of the variables mentioned before allows this faction to be the only one sending AT-guns without bodyguards to simply chase down and annihilate enemy vehicles, as they also come with an easy quality of movement speed and Retreat option. This unit simply has a lot of abilities to offer for its very low cost.

Possible Solutions

  1. Increase its cost to 320mp and make camouflage a Veterancy 1 ability. (it can already penetrate any medium armor almost 100%)
  2. Decrease the penetration values by 20/24/26 for this unit and keep the low cost for recruiting it.

Final opinion

Having high penetration values and a low cost allows this AT-gun to be the most overwhelming AT-gun from the game! ironically it has a 43mm gun to deal damage, but it can heavily outperformance the 45mm AT-gun from the Soviets and of course any other 76mm AT-gun.

Another observation is that the Raketenwerfer 43 is supposed to use the fearsome Panzerschreck to deal damage, as the unit description is written. Proving once again if that is the case, of how bad the Panzerschrecks are balanced.

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Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    This is literally the same as your ZiS gun thread just from the opposite direction, and you're still wrong.

    The nerfs the Raketenwerfer needs are to stop it from stealth crawling forwards and that's it.

  • #3
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 299
    edited April 2019

    I made a thread of this a while a go and had the same suggestion as 1. solutions, right now this unit overperform due to it's stealth and still being able to pen pretty much every allied stock wihicles except Comet's.

    Another problem in mid-late game is how much easyer it is to protect this unit from barrage due to it's stealth compare to allied at guns. The ir half truck that scans the whole map for free and walking stuka combo makes it very easy to get rid of allied at guns, which is often hard to afford new in late game. Compare to allied ironicly it's the katyscha that being hunt by stealthing sniper at gun instead of vice versa due to it's stealth so you can't spot them. If so, OKW has less of a problem affording new once if it should happen to be destroyed.

    1.As memtioned abow
    2. Simply get et rid of the stealth. It's ok if its commander boundled, not as a stock unit that is this cheap and perform pretty much the same as its counterpart if you look at the armor stats compare to axis.

    Heck, seen so many games turn around just because allied happen to steal one or two raketen xD

  • #4
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 883

    @mrdjjag81 seen so many games turn around just because allied happen to steal one or two raketen xD

    This happened to me once in 3v3, they got Left fuel, we left it. Tried to defend the Right fuel while being harassed on Mid. I got a rak, just let it move stealthy to the Left just to find out it was only defended with 2MGs, Soviet rush 5 T34 there, suddenly they lost their fuel, they leaved Mid & moved to the left to get Left fuel back. While tank battling vs T34, my Jackson to rush from the Mid and flank them.

    Reason why Rak stealth is so op, isnt just lied on their sneaky kill Light tank, its ability to move while camo is. You dont move your Sniper right in front of enemy without camo always on.
    An example of me losing an AAHT, I fighting elsewhere, still noticed AAHT took a hit and retreat immediatly, but still too late.

  • #5
    1 year ago
    Stealing a Raketen is the best thing that can happen to you as a Soviet player hahaha I agree! They are so great and easy to exploit
  • #6
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Yupp raks are frustrating for both players due to their short range, small crew, no green cover and affinity to blast the ground as okw and the stupid STUPID awful creeping death as the allies. Nerf the +5 range with vet but keep that of all things.....
  • #7
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 299

    An example of me losing an AAHT, I fighting elsewhere, still noticed AAHT took a hit and retreat immediatly, but still too late.

    Good example how cheesy and effective you can take out light wihicles with it due to its fast reload you have very narrow chance escaping the second shot.

    If this ninja ability should stay in the game it needs to be adjusted to same as soviets camo moving speed, no need to have a stock stealth ability where you can sprint around the map with your at gun. OR, they could have the same stealth mec as snipers, need to be in cover to be abel to stealth and not when moving around in the open, it just look silly as well.

  • #8
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Camo in cover is what the rak used to have and it proved buggy, but there isn't a God damned reason it should be able to move as quickly as it does with full time camo.
  • #9
    1 year ago

    Cammo moved to Vet1
    Movement Speed while using camo slightly reduced
    Cost increased from 270 to 320
    Still recruitable from T0 next to many other units

    Problem solved.

  • #10
    1 year ago

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    Stealing a Raketen is the best thing that can happen to you as a Soviet player hahaha I agree! They are so great and easy to exploit

    Proving how easy and overly cost efficient these things are

    It only took me to steal two RAKETENWERFER 43 ANTI-TANK to wreck

    3 Panzers
    2 Stug II
    1 Panzer IV
    2 Flamethrower HTs

    GG EZ Nex game

    Surpassing in damage deal against vehicles than my five T-34/85 recruited lol

    Those Panzerschrecks used by the Raketen are surely on Beast Mode On

  • #11
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @Patrol_Omega said:

    Proving how easy and overly cost efficient these things are

    All ATGs will routinely crack the 1K% efficiency. It's based on how much they cost vs how much what they kill costs, and because ATGs are cheap MP only items that kill MP + Fuel vehicles, they rack up that efficiency super quickly. If high efficiency or out damaging your main tank are your big smoking gun, then we need to nerf all AT Guns.

    Reduce movement speed in camo, leave at 270MP, Raketen fixed.

    Alternatively, Reduce movement speed in camo, increase to 320 MP, increase range to 60 to match other AT Guns. Raketen... eh. Fixed?

  • #12
    1 year ago

    @Lazarus

    The only cheap AT gun in the game is the Raketen, which must be adjusted in price and performance to match all the other ATs.

    It already comes with:

    • Retreat mode
    • Camouflage without Veterancy needed
    • Fast movement speed while using Camouflage
    • Faster reload gun speed
    • Faster gun rotation speed
    • Uses Panzerschrecks to deal damage, which means that Penetrating even Heavy tanks becomes a joke

                                                      270MP extremely cheap cost for everything you just read
      

    How to balance it to match any other AT gun in 2019?

    1. Cost increased from 270 to 320
    2. Camouflage now requires Veterancy1 to be unlocked
    3. Movement speed while using camouflage slightly reduced
  • #13
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    The only cheap AT gun is the rakketten? Usf 57mm costs the same and the Soviet m42 has a similar cost (don't recall exactly since last round of buffs)

    Also iirc its pen isn't anything exceptional., even a panzer Shrek doesn't have the pen to cut it against heavy tanks. No standard AT weapon does, that's why things like allied TDs and axis panthers exist. Use hard numbers not feelz to back up your claims.
  • #14
    1 year ago

    Are you even trying to compare the Soviet m42 to the Raketen?

    Try it on Cheat Mode and write again how they can't penetrate Heavy armor, please.

  • #15
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    I said that the rak isn't the only cheap AT gun. Don't put words in my mouth.

    And it doesn't matter what happens in game, it's stats that talk. I've killed is-2s with a puma, does not make the puma a heavy armour counter.
  • #16
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 883

    Gain its price, camo at vet 1..doesnt work. Add in 50 more mp and vet just make it harder to do cheese play, not get rid of of it.

    These are ways:
    . Camo button only show when stationary for few sec
    . Rak auto camo when stationary for few sec

    Its just not about their Light tank sneak kill. Its the only unit that can camo and move at the same time. Makes it a powerful scout unit

  • #17
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    > @Patrol_Omega said:
    > @Lazarus
    >
    > The only cheap AT gun in the game is the Raketen, which must be adjusted in price and performance to match all the other ATs

    So you want to buff it up to 60 range?
  • #18
    1 year ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    edited April 2019
    Is it more difficult to find RAKETENWERFER 43 compared to snipers? They have 4 people, right? Do they have optical camouflage?
    I think that AT is itself a tool for defense. RAKETENWERFER 43 has an attack effect because it can move in the hide. So my idea is to make RAKETENWERFER 43 unable to move in ambush but increase the rate of fire.
    By the way, when this article came out, I found that the number of players who used the RAKETENWERFER 43 sneak attack has increased.
  • #19
    1 year ago

    Agree with above commentS, raketen camo has to be nerfed. In my opinion, one of this changes would make raketen balanced. Camo vet 3, activating camo makes raketen stationary, greatly increase the distance from which raketen is spotted, or even remove camo ability, raketen has retreat afterall which is unique thing for AT that increases its survivability, which is enough.

  • #20
    1 year ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    I think camo should either be locked behind veterancy 1 (as most of units in the game have abilities locked at vet1)
    (Don't forget Rak is the only AT that can get inside buildings)

    And I agree to some of the comments above, maybe can have camo locked behind vet1 and make camo movement slower or only stationary

    Maybe an ability can be added so when stationary it will be "locked" in place (can't retreat) and will have current or better firing speed (in order to retreat it will take time to disable or unmount and then can retrat)

    I don't know, there can be many other ways to balance it but definitely something should be done about it

  • #21
    1 year ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited June 2019

    Just increase squad size to 5 man and a little bit more range and take away retreat and lock camo behide vet 3.

    or

    at current state raket
    -low cost mean it is very easy to spam
    -T0 unit
    -have retreat which give it most survivebility in the game
    -have camo that work while moving and if it get discover can press retreat and get that reduce recieve accrucy and sprint inmedietly.
    -low pen does not mean much when you can pen 80% of pen in the game

    It you let me chose between pak 40 or raket.I would pick raket over pak 40 anyday.

    Current problem is the user of raket dont get punish for mis play or mispositioning.
    And even when they do the price is extreamly cheap which make it is easy to replaceble.

    So if we lock camo behide vet 3 it will make the raket hard to replace.
    And give it 5 man to compensate with it raw survivebility and give it more range.Then just take away the ultimate mistake erase buttom in order to punish the mispositioning.

  • #22
    1 year ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @Holyspirit999 said:
    Just increase squad size to 5 man and a little bit more range and take away retreat and lock camo behide vet 3.

    or

    at current state raket
    -low cost mean it is very easy to spam
    -T0 unit
    -have retreat which give it most survivebility in the game
    -have camo that work while moving and if it get discover can press retreat and get that reduce recieve accrucy and sprint inmedietly.
    -low pen does not mean much when you can pen 80% of pen in the game

    It you let me chose between pak 40 or raket.I would pick raket over pak 40 anyday.

    Current problem is the user of raket dont get punish for mis play or mispositioning.
    And even when they do the price is extreamly cheap which make it is easy to replaceble.

    So if we lock camo behide vet 3 it will make the raket hard to replace.
    And give it 5 man to compensate with it raw survivebility and give it more range.Then just take away the ultimate mistake erase buttom in order to punish the mispositioning.

    I like your suggestion for making it 5 man and so forth as mentioned on the first line. It is good and that is what I thnik it needs.

    Removal of camo also is required to make it a proper supportive AT unit.

    If you are talking about teamgames and easy to spam, then it is to an extent true but none in their right strategic minds would do that.


    270 manpower is still costy and to compare it to a USF AT gun costing 280 manpower. I will pick that instead also due to the fact its rate of fire is faster than the Raketenwerfer.

    Camo does not play an efficient role in making it an effective AT gun. It has to deal with its weakness being its limited range thus there is nothing that makes of it a good AT gun.

    Pak40 is still way better than Rak because its stun ability is very useful. Rak is just camo which is nothing in comparison to the others AT role effectiveness. Especially USF AT gun effectiveness for enhanced range in combination with penetration. Camo, has no effect in the role of proper AT or support.

    Rak 270 manpower
    USF AT 280 manpower
    WEHR AT 320 manpower

    Out of these 3 for its price and performance. I would pick first USF AT or Pak40 and last and I mean last Raketenwerfer. Even SU and UKF AT is something I would definitely pick over the Raketenwerfer since you are forced to get closer than usual.


    Usually when an enemy tank approaches directly towards the AT gun at speed, which does happen to everyone occasionally. With Rak, it arrives point blank before it shoots, therefore making it easy for the enemy go around the Rak. With others, it shoots when mid way, causing diffculty for the enemy. Raketenwerfer is in many aspects a terrible AT unit because of its range and reload. Reload being worse than the USF AT gun since it is the fastest. Range is its bigggest issue which needs to be improved in order to fulfill its AT role.

    It is not that cheap as it would decrease your overall effectiveness since Raketenwerfer is arguably a terrible supportive AT unit thus it is a bad investment. Other AT guns can make a follow up in addition to their use of useful abilities. Also since its survivability is the worst due to their significantly high received accuracy in addition to being forced to get close.

    Rak needs buffs and nerfs, here and there. Camo needs to be removed in favour for Range being the same as others. Possibly remove retreat for 5 man for better survivability, and put the reverse mechanic instead since it is essential for making a proper AT gun. That is pretty much it since OKW does suffer in terms of AT compared to other factions. Not the tanks but the rest. Raketenwerfer and Sturmpio 1 Pzshrek AT is lackluster overall. I you disagree, just compare and look closely to the other factions AT gun and AT infantry unit

  • #23
    1 year ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    Totally disagree, playing against the OKW, if you get to steal one or two Raketen on team games, then it is game over.
    The Raketen very fast aimming at targets turns it into a beast, on top of the Cammo and retreat ability.
    Turning this AT gun into the best one out there, as several players already stated.
    I would love to get the OKW AT as the Soviets, for an unreal increase in win rate, due to how forgiven, cheap and buffed the Raketen currently is.
    Not to mention how uncommond it is for this unit to get shots bounced by enemy armor.
  • #24
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 883
    Rak has low pen, the rate it pen Allies premium Medium or higher is the same as USF/Brit ATgun pen Axis premium Med or higher.

    The feel of Rak pen more than Us/Brit Atgun is both Axis factions able to spam Panther, while only Brit able to spam Comet for Allies side. Soviet requires commanders. And Usf cant even do that.
  • #25
    1 year ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    Totally disagree, playing against the OKW, if you get to steal one or two Raketen on team games, then it is game over.
    The Raketen very fast aimming at targets turns it into a beast, on top of the Cammo and retreat ability.
    Turning this AT gun into the best one out there, as several players already stated.
    I would love to get the OKW AT as the Soviets, for an unreal increase in win rate, due to how forgiven, cheap and buffed the Raketen currently is.
    Not to mention how uncommond it is for this unit to get shots bounced by enemy armor.

    I mean, I would say it is mostly useful in the hands of the SU since survivability fixes one of the Rakentenwerfers issues. Yes, it can be used well but at most times, you have to force the enemy to halt/stop. Usually Volks in front and Raketenwerfer behind.

    Sometimes putting Raketenwerfer behind another unit is not good enough. Positioning with it is one of the hardest things to do with Raketenwerfer unless you use a bait (a unit in front of the Rak). Why is it bad and what makes if even more challenging/difficult, I will further explain.

    It's current time to aim is relatively poor especially targeting compared to other AT guns. Not only do I realise that the range is limited but also the width by some margin. Which might explain even further its difficulties. It has more downsides than upsides. Camo which is not a real ability rather an ability used to compensate for its lacking abilities makes this Rakentenwerfer the worst AT gun.

    Explain maybe the reasons behind for Camo and its limited capabilites. It is what is called "compensation" but there is no real upside to it. Just more downsides.

    If I had to compare how times and how frequent I have lost any AT guns in team games especially in 1v1, it is the Raketenwerfer. Even then, you have to have but at most 2 or 3 Raketenwerfers which is unlikely in order to scare off the enemy. With other AT guns 1 is enough and even 2. That is something to consider also. It's morale effect on the enemy due to its significance which Rak has little.

    What also makes this is even more weak. As mentioned before and I will repeat. Having the worst survivability due to having the highest received accuracy of all the AT guns but that is not the worst part, it also has to get close.

    All in all, Raketenwerfer suffers in many aspects to fulfil the role as an AT gun. Maybe that even explains why it is available in T0 because of its overall effectiveness.

    Yes, it can be used effectively but that is only effective when used against those who are slow in decision making, not planting mines and not covering enough ground.

    For 270 manpower, it is simply not worth it. I would rather invest in another AT unit but as OKW I can not due to lacking proper alternatives. I have simply no other choice and that sucks. Trying to use Sturmpio 1 Pzshrek is the most lackluster infantry AT unit in game.


    Sturmpio AT role

    Look at this from another aspect. Comparing Raketenwerfer and Sturmpio only Pzshrek (AT infantry unit) to other factions. It has the lowest effectiveness and efficiency.

    Sturmpio compared to Penals AT role. Penals shoot every 3 seconds with 2 PTRS dealing each 40 damage. For Sturmpio 1 Pzshrek does 120 damage with 1 Pzshrek in over a period of 8-9 seconds.

    So know lets calculate how much Penals does roughly in 8-9 seconds and its 240 damage.

    In 9 seconds Penals does 240 damage while Sturmpio does 120 damage. I must say for 70 ammo that is unjustified for Sturmpio. No, wait there is also something else.

    For Penals 60 ammo, not only does it come with 2 PTRS (that does 2 times better) but also a Satchel AT charge. What a devastating combination right! I am not saying it needs nerf Penals but what I think Sturmpio needs with their AT is a thought through implementation and buff/change in AT role.

    Thus Penals AT costing 60 ammo is 3 times more efficient than Sturmpio AT costing 70 ammo!

    MY IDEA:
    I think Sturmpio should get 2 Panzerbursche instead and shoots slightly more frequently than PTRS since they will have no snare. That is my idea for Sturmpio, also reduce price to 60 ammo.

    Explain otherwise why 70 ammo for that much effect. Penals is undeniably one of the best AT infantry unit alongside Pzgrens. I mean even USF and UKF can have 2 of their own AT weapons in addition to having snare if boths picks the right unit for the role, makes them in some way very efficient also. Sturmpio AT is simply lackluster! IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED!

    All in all, OKW does lack proper defined AT role units. The Raketenwerfer and Sturmpio AT. The main/core roles which should be supplementary enough which fails to fulfil

  • #26
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 883
    Penal doesnt come with ATgun.
  • #27
    1 year ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @C3Tooth said:
    Penal doesnt come with ATgun.

    What I mean is AT weapons. Penals PTRS and Sturmpio's Pzshrek.

    Their AT package

  • #28
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 883
    The game isnt just about 1 unit with another counter part unit. Given the same unit but one has better outcome in a faction than another.

    There are many example:
    .Pak43 in Ost doesnt have PzHQ and flak-placemet support.
    .USF pack doesnt have BattleHQ support (this word from Darka not me)
    .LeFH arty in Ost doesnt have InfrareHT
    .USF ATgun doesnt have MGs to defend it like Brit (USF version has many abilities so its fair though)

    To this day, the only thing that I want to nerf from Axis side is to raise the cost of Volk or lower their utilities, and Im considered as an Allies bias.

    "Leig need more damage, Panther need AI power, Sturm need another shreck, Pershing should not be in game, Gren should have 20% harder to hit"

    I know Ost weakness well so Im going to play Okw for a month to exploit its weakness, it must has a flaw for people keep complaining.
  • #29
    1 year ago
    FreeSpeechFreeSpeech Posts: 104

    @C3Tooth said:
    Rak has low pen, the rate it pen Allies premium Medium or higher is the same as USF/Brit ATgun pen Axis premium Med or higher.

    The feel of Rak pen more than Us/Brit Atgun is both Axis factions able to spam Panther, while only Brit able to spam Comet for Allies side. Soviet requires commanders. And Usf cant even do that.

    I don't think this is an argument. 1st pen is higher than 1 for most allied tanks, i.e. higher than 160. 2nd allied at guns can't "run". Less pen would make it more a camo unit. Now it's just front side in and run....

  • #30
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 883
    Of course it wasnt argument, just point out the fact of the game without stat required.

    Tell, 3v3 game of Brit/Soviet/USF vs Ost/Ost/Okw

    In Mid late game, Rak fires at Crom,Sher,T34 has less pen than Brit Atgun fires at 3 Panzer

    In Late game, tell me Rak fires at Comet/Sher,T34 and Brit ATgun fires at Panther/Panther/King. Which will deal more pen? This explains why Allies player feel Rak pen is better than their ATgun.
  • #31
    1 year ago
    FreeSpeechFreeSpeech Posts: 104

    @C3Tooth said:
    Of course it wasnt argument, just point out the fact of the game without stat required.

    Tell, 3v3 game of Brit/Soviet/USF vs Ost/Ost/Okw

    In Mid late game, Rak fires at Crom,Sher,T34 has less pen than Brit Atgun fires at 3 Panzer

    In Late game, tell me Rak fires at Comet/Sher,T34 and Brit ATgun fires at Panther/Panther/King. Which will deal more pen? This explains why Allies player feel Rak pen is better than their ATgun.

    That's wrong: USF AT GUN has PEN of 150 (near) Raketenw has 200 (near). PZ 4 has 180 Armour ==> 150/180 < 1 pen chance.
    Sherman 200/160 >1 ==> will always pen. It's not a feeling it's a fact.

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