[OKW/ALL] Sturmpios & Raketenwerfer

#1
4 months ago
Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200
edited June 28 in Balance Feedback

Hi guys

I really think it would be great if Sturmpio could get access to 2 Pzshreks. I really do not understand why there are limited to 1 only considering that other factions can have 2 so I think it would be fair. You can purchase 1 as currently now for 70 ammo, and If you want another, it will cost another 70 ammo. 2 Pzshreks will cost 140 ammo in total.

Balance Raketenwerfer.

Remove Camo completely. Make range as any other. As expensive as any other AT gun. Available in HQ after 1 Base built. Instead of Camo, I was thinking HE shells to make it kind of interesting or different.
The reason why Rak needs changes because it can be unbalanced in the beginning but becomes arguably the worst AT scale late game. OKW without tanks have zero proper AT capabilities as they lack the proper choices late game.

I think this fix certain aspects of the game!

Comments

  • #2
    4 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    Forgot also to mention. Since OKW will not have Rak early.

    Volks can have early snares or Panzerfaust.

  • #3
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    Usf at is also 270mp but more damage and cant retreat or cloak(instead hvap and range boost). So I dont really think rak needs to be more expensive as it is for a simple pen or range boost and get rid of cloak as you sudjest it could very well stay same price.

    Right now rak just have survivability compaired to penetration but okw could use something better vs more heavily armored vehicles when no armor themselves.

    Some have also sudjested giveing okw pack 40.

    I'm not sure how raketens should make changes to better balance them out.

    As far as double shreck they are pretty potent and I dont like wehrmacht haveing double as it is they shred usf more lightly armored vehicles of course same as rak since they can be massed easier.

    So I feel a balance needs to be better struck where they can pen heavier vehicles but not shred lighter ones like usf vehicles.
  • #4
    3 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    I agree with you.

    I do think Pak40 is a better resolution for OKW since Raketenwerfer can be long-winded and annoying. They shred light vehicles but mid-late they get shredded themselves easily.

    Pak40 is balanced in many aspects in comparison especially in terms of scaling.

    The fact is, they can not get as easily access to medium tanks compared to other factions also due to the risks they have to endure.

  • #5
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 547

    USF ATgun doesnt deal more damage. All ATgun deal 160hp, equal to a tank round.

    One way to fix Rak is it take longer reload time, however gain higher pen when fire in camo mode. This will make Rak less op to Light vehicles, but better for Heavy (or Medium if do camo). Of course get rid moving in camo mode.

  • #6
    3 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    I stole a rak last game and it defended my bofors brilliantly. It killed a Panther in the mid to late game.

    The rak is a great at gun, and one of the best examples of everyone's favorite cliche, asymmetric balance. Anyone who wants their rak to be replaced with a pak should pick a different faction, namely, wehr.

    As for double shreks, you would need to consider de-buffing their rate of fire and penetration values to bring them in line with double zooks or piats, and/or removing the volks snare, as this would work more synergistically than usf abilities.

  • #7
    3 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @Bloodygood said:
    I stole a rak last game and it defended my bofors brilliantly. It killed a Panther in the mid to late game.

    The rak is a great at gun, and one of the best examples of everyone's favorite cliche, asymmetric balance. Anyone who wants their rak to be replaced with a pak should pick a different faction, namely, wehr.

    As for double shreks, you would need to consider de-buffing their rate of fire and penetration values to bring them in line with double zooks or piats, and/or removing the volks snare, as this would work more synergistically than usf abilities.

    The likelihood that Raketenwerfer would get any tank kills in comparison to any other AT gun is slimmer. Its only useful when used against any enemy who is unprepared and unaware. Otherwise it is terrible in most cases. Rak needs some changes since OKW suffers AT heavily. They already suffer in relation to fuel. They can not have both Fuel and AT problems as they do now! It is either one or the other. Both is unbalanced.

    I suggested Sturmpio should get 2 Panzerbursche instead since 1 Pzshrek currently is lackluster especially for a price of 70 ammo.

    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245914/okw-all-raketenwerfer-43-anti-tank#latest
    Comment 25#, can see what I think needs changes and why!

  • #8
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 547
    edited June 13
    Funny that I see Katiof tell you to play Ost if you want double shreck of PzGren and cache. Bloody tell you to play Ost if you want Rak has more pen and range and survival-bility of Pak.

    Honestly, just play Ost.
  • #9
    3 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @C3Tooth said:
    Funny that I see Katiof tell you to play Ost if you want double shreck of PzGren and cache. Bloody tell you to play Ost if you want Rak has more pen and range and survival-bility of Pak.

    Honestly, just play Ost.

    Changing to a different faction does not solve anything.

    It is like saying oh Maxim and Conscripts are bad an it should be changed. Then someone say (like you said C3Tooth and Katitof) say it should be/stay as it is and jump into another faction if dont like the current, in this case for OKW. And yet they are getting adjustments. So what does this prove!

    I am happy to see SU and Allies getting some improvements but you guys (C3Tooth and Katitof) only seem to see things more opinionated!

    Ignoring certain facts and self evident features that anyone can realise through their lack of proificient AT gear on top of Fuel deficit is rather unbalanced for OKW. Honestly, anyone can see this in their flexible minds. Even the Devs are open to changes which I am very fond of!

    Therefore, it is not a problem to see fit to adjusting OKW's AT problems.

    I ask you this, can you go Med 1v1 instead of Mechanized? Then you ask me, what does this have to do with anything we are talking about.

    The answer for many especially pros like VonIvan go always Mechanized because of the simple obvious fact that they do not have proper AT enough to keep them alive/sustained.

    If Rak and Sturmpio was proficient enough which is currently not, then MED base could actually be a viable option in 1v1. That is why it is impossible in many case scenarios to even use FHT. Mechanized has Puma to protect, but without it can not protect other vehicles for OKW and that is self-evident. Raketenwerfer and Sturmpio does not qualify as proper AT.

    _Reason being is Sturmpio AT is lackluster and not scary enough as any other factions AT infantry unit (examples are: Penals , Pzgrens, Royal Engineers, USF Riflemen with 2 bazooks on top of snare, and UKF royal engineer) options. All the others having it better since they can have 2 AT weapons for infantry USF, SU, UKF and WEHR (wehr has no snare for AT Pzgren unit) with snares. OKW Sturmpio is limited to 1 and no snares. That is lackluster indeed!_

    Rak, dont have to repeat myself! I explained it already.

    All in all, OKW in terms of AT needs some adjusting!.

  • #10
    3 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    Let me give you an example: I mainly play UKF in 4v4, but I will rarely if ever pick the comet when there's a skilled OKW player, the reason being that I know it's one (extremely likely) camoed rak blob away from not recouping a single shred of its value

  • #11
    3 months ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32
    edited June 28

    (removed)

    the rak is extremely effective, if you are expecting a rak to hold off heavy tanks then you are delusional, that is not what it is for, late game it is a support weapon, much like all allied AT guns against much thicker armour

    why do you think allied players steal raks? even if they are even less effective against much thicker axis armour? because combined with other AT its useful, it's cloaking is useful, its retreat is useful, the fact that it can garrisoned is extremely useful

    if you need more AT as okw then why aren't you building their tank destroyer? there is a reason it's there!

  • #12
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 547
    edited June 21

    This list not include anti light armor options

    Ost: (7 options total)
    HQ: Teller mine, Pzgren 2xShreck
    Tier 1: Gren snare
    Tier 2: ATgun
    Tier 3: Stug, Pz4
    Tier 4: Panther

    Okw: (8-9 of 9 options total)
    HQ: Schu-mine, Volk snare, Sturm 1xShreck, Rak
    pick between
    _Tier 1:
    _Tier 2: Puma
    Tier 3: Pz4, Panther, Jadpz
    King

    Soviet: (7-8 of 8 options total)
    HQ: TM35 mine, Cons snare
    pick between
    _Tier 1: Penal 2xPTRS, Penal sachel
    _Tier 2: ATgun
    Tier 3: SU76
    Tier 4: SU85, T34

    USF: (5 of 6 options total)
    HQ: Riflemen snare, x2 Bazooka
    pick between
    _Tier 1: Stuart
    _Tier 2: ATgun
    Tier 3: Sherman, Jackson

    Brit: (7-8 of 8 options total)
    HQ: x2 PIAT
    Tier 1: ATgun, Sapper snare, AEC option
    Tier 2: Cromwell, Firefly
    pick between
    _Anvil: Churchill
    _Hammer: Comet

    You're welcome.

  • #13
    2 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    It is not about how many!

    It is about how good those choices are.

    If you compare Osteehr even any other faction except OKW, they are solid, strong, viable options.

    Despite the fact OKW has more, they are mostly ineffective. The only good is Tier 3 only! Any other is simply the worst AT you can get! They are not as viable, solid nor strong enough. Quantity does not beat quality. That is where I have been always pointing at which I have pointing from the beginning. Clearly something that has been ignored!


    Raketenwerfer (worst AT support weapon in comparison to the rest, that is clearly a fact) is not that good an AT unit nor is Sturmpio (only 1 Shrek, no snare) AT.

    If you compare have compare to WEHR Pak40 and Pzgrens AT (2 Pzshrek without snare)

    or

    SU Zis Gun and Penals AT (2 PTRS and Satchel snare)

    USF 2 Zookas with snare (depending on which unit) and Best cost effective USF AT gun

    UKF 2 AT weapons with snare (depending on which unit you choose) and good AT gun.


    I am talking about early and mid gameplay mainly. Particularly late but mainly early-mid.
    OKW AT Sturmpio and Raketenwerfer is simply unreliable, and not as viable in comparison.

    I mean, who cares if one captures it or not. Does not necessarily make it useful at all. It is just like saying, "ohh, I captured Maxim, must be very useful right, why is everyone loving this weapon if it is used a lot, lol". Stop changing the obvious, it is clearly the worst AT gun and Sturmpio AT being also the worst AT infantry unit!.

    That is a fact which is obvious and something that can not be clearly ignored since anyone in their right minds would see this clearly!

  • #14
    2 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    You can clearly see why the others are better off in terms of AT!

    All but OKW early-mid game. Early mid is the worst AT accessibility in game for OKW.

    The others can depend on their options throughout the entire course of the game. Their AT support gun and AT infantry unit!

  • #15
    2 months ago
    robocskarobocska Posts: 21

    so you say 2xbazoka rack count as 1xpshreck pioner? becuse => 2x bazoke enginers,rifle,cap,lit even mayor + same go 2xIS sappers and even the brit snaper can have 2x bazoka + doctirnes like okw has the jagdtiger and now panzerfuseliers (and if we want the commander panther)

    SO if we whatch the bigger picture

    Ost tellers,riegel mines faust(grens.Ostruppen)pgren pshreck(pgren,stormtroopers) Pak(basic 43) Stug,p4(basic ,J) panther tiger(ace basic) Elefant TD,puma,Command p4 and AT Stuka run so => 18 option

    OKW basic mine , faust(volks fallshimjaggers) at gun(raket,pak43) p4 puma panther(basic command) jagerspanzer Tigers(King,Ost,Jag)Pshreck(pioner panzerfuselier) AT stuka run riegel by 223 =>18 opton (don't count HVAP)

    USF mine(light,m30) bazooka(Rear,Rilfelman,Lit,Cap(mayor,Pathfinders),Rangers,Airborns) Snare(rifleman,cavarly RM)
    AT gun Stuart Greyhound Jackson.M10 wolv. Shermans(basic E8 76) Pershing P47 rocker run =>20 option (Don't count mayor pathfiner cavarly and LIT and vehicle crews)

    USSR mines(basic PMD-6) snare (cons penal) AT guns(basic m42 b4) PTRS groups(cons,penalsGuards) Pshreck partizans
    Kv(1 2 and (8) T34(76 85) ISU 152 SU(76 85) IS2 Il2(bombing rocket) un Antitank Sherman overwhatch=>21 option Don't count guards K-8 Tank hunter cons AT snares

    UKF Basic mine PIAT(IS Sappers(basic recovery) Commando,Officer) AT guns (basic 18pounder) Snare(Tank Huners IS sappers) AEC, valantine Comet cromwell Chuchill (basic,crocodil) AT rifle (tank hunters (Sniper)) m10 Firefly Strafing run=>19 option Don't cound that Resuplly halftruck can give alies PIAT ,sniper firefly rockets

  • #16
    2 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    Personally I would never put any hand held anti tank weapons on any infantry other than engineers as they cant effectively fight main line Infantry anyway unless they specialize close quarters and get the drop on them.

    As far as okw at ability non doctrin I wouldn't call rak usless but it is not awsome either it is kind of 50/50 at most and ya falls off later Into game penetration wise but very useful for gaining vision when moveing one forward camouflaged will at least give the other at guns a shot (useful in attacking bofor from max range without haveing to wait for puma with its extended visual range). unless you want to use a kubelwagen for its extended visual range along side the rak.

    I think this is why they added the new unit with double shreck i beleive which i use alot just for that alone it bumbs up non armored at option so you can save fuel and has more pen than bazookas but perhaps equal to rak if not just slightly better I feel because if I'm not mistaken all hand held weapons even on non penetrating shots still at least do 50% of its damage now.

    Idk about their tank destroyer I've never used it Ive mainly gone straight to panther but I'm not a major axis player just occasionally I like to change things up and play axis more so okw lately.

    Okw vs usf are ok against american lightly armored vehicles i main usf so trust me I lose alot but mostly to either ost double shreck or 3x camouflaged rak leaving me no time to react simply because they are cheap and can be easily mass produced not needing high pen vs usf.

    When I play as okw though it is a struggle vs russian and british players heavy armor without my own armor. but I understand and feel the same way likewise as an American player vs heavily armored axis tanks leaning heavily on jackson or combined arms like m20 mine and 57mm at gun hvap if the hvap will pen because it is ok vs an ost p4 gaurenteed to pen with hvap and it does bounce within reason vs okw p4 but struggles anything higher like a panther especially with vet armor bonuses plus inel bulletins even brumbar gives it a hurt or god forbid a heavy tank which I would probably need vet 3 to sometimes pen.

    In general okw and usf both struggle vs heavy tanks like okw vs ISU-152 but I dont think a rak will ever pen that from the front so if you have no armor your screwed.

    Although usf has nothing larger than a Jackson which struggles vs king tiger.
    so it goes back to combined arms tactics to try and figure something out which is why I see alot of artillery options getting used not strictly vs static positions but vs heavy tanks hence the very popular use of both the priest and lefh.

    Okw I feel only beat out usf in anti tank because of their own heavy tank options especially if they can get vision.

    But okw does lack In the mid section of the game without the use of mobile armored options like the puma but even that is not going to stare down a churchill or better yet a crocodile. Puma and rak look at each other then run away...lol.

    A rak though is technically a panzershek on wheels so idk they could add a % damage value based on deflection this would give it at least damage opportunities vs heavier armor to gain vet and still not going to be much of a difference vs american lightly armored tanks.
  • #17
    2 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    Oh one other thing just about hand held weapons like the bazooka. Idk about the british but yes you would think 100% putting bazookas on rear echelons is a go to because they are cheap but it does have the draw back that rear echelons dont have the accuracy of rifleman so they can miss alot of shots just thought I would toss that thought up in here.
  • #18
    2 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @38Lightning said:
    Personally I would never put any hand held anti tank weapons on any infantry other than engineers as they cant effectively fight main line Infantry anyway unless they specialize close quarters and get the drop on them.....

    As far as okw at ability non doctrin I wouldn't call rak usless but it is not awsome either it is kind of 50/50 at most and ya falls off later Into game penetration wise but very useful for gaining vision when moveing one forward camouflaged will at least give the other at guns a shot (useful in attacking bofor from max range without haveing to wait for puma with its extended visual range). unless you want to use a kubelwagen for its extended visual range along side the rak.

    I think this is why they added the new unit with double shreck i beleive which i use alot just for that alone it bumbs up non armored at option so you can save fuel and has more pen than bazookas but perhaps equal to rak if not just slightly better I feel because if I'm not mistaken all hand held weapons even on non penetrating shots still at least do 50% of its damage now.

    Idk about their tank destroyer I've never used it Ive mainly gone straight to panther but I'm not a major axis player just occasionally I like to change things up and play axis more so okw lately.

    Okw vs usf are ok against american lightly armored vehicles i main usf so trust me I lose alot but mostly to either ost double shreck or 3x camouflaged rak leaving me no time to react simply because they are cheap and can be easily mass produced not needing high pen vs usf.

    When I play as okw though it is a struggle vs russian and british players heavy armor without my own armor. but I understand and feel the same way likewise as an American player vs heavily armored axis tanks leaning heavily on jackson or combined arms like m20 mine and 57mm at gun hvap if the hvap will pen because it is ok vs an ost p4 gaurenteed to pen with hvap and it does bounce within reason vs okw p4 but struggles anything higher like a panther especially with vet armor bonuses plus inel bulletins even brumbar gives it a hurt or god forbid a heavy tank which I would probably need vet 3 to sometimes pen.

    In general okw and usf both struggle vs heavy tanks like okw vs ISU-152 but I dont think a rak will ever pen that from the front so if you have no armor your screwed.

    Although usf has nothing larger than a Jackson which struggles vs king tiger.
    so it goes back to combined arms tactics to try and figure something out which is why I see alot of artillery options getting used not strictly vs static positions but vs heavy tanks hence the very popular use of both the priest and lefh.

    Okw I feel only beat out usf in anti tank because of their own heavy tank options especially if they can get vision.

    But okw does lack In the mid section of the game without the use of mobile armored options like the puma but even that is not going to stare down a churchill or better yet a crocodile. Puma and rak look at each other then run away...lol.

    A rak though is technically a panzershek on wheels so idk they could add a % damage value based on deflection this would give it at least damage opportunities vs heavier armor to gain vet and still not going to be much of a difference vs american lightly armored tanks.

    Sturmpio is quite an example in this instance. Since it is an engineer and they are mainly useful for repairing but combat is not such a huge speciality. Sturmpio you have to always find the opportunity to close the gap quickly in order to make the utmost use in infantry engagements. Not a problem. The problem is their selection of choices for OKW is rather lacking in terms of AT accessibility.

    If anyone wanted a mobile AT infantry unit when playing as OKW, it is not possible because Sturmpio AT is really the worst in game. 70 ammo is a lot for something that provides little in comparison to a Penal 60 ammo AT Package. It should be good or as good, that is what I pointing at. Not bad or inefficient. Just enough so that it provides a good enough support. It needs to be better than it is now!

    DEVS of COH2, PLEASE look into this issue and FIX IT PLEASE.

    It is very useful in the beginning the Sturmpio but it does not become such a viable combat unit throughout the course of the game. Mostly, Volks are the better and the only ideal choice in most infantry combat situations.

    I mean AT option is there for Sturmpio. I would like to use it more often instead but I can not because I know I would be wasting my ammo on something that is of no proper use. It is simply not worth it for its lacking efficiency!

    Sturmpio has an AT upgrade that costs 70 ammo which is hell of a lot of ammo that provides little effectiveness overall. It should simply be better for that price. That is where I am getting at!


    Here are some ideas, I think Sturmpio AT 70 ammo package should be like. 1 of the 3 options

    Option 1./ Locked behind 1 Base, Package becomes available. For 100 ammo, get 2 Pzshreks like what Pzgrens have. Becomes a shock AT unit

    Option 2./ Same cost 70 ammo still 1 Pzshrek but shoots every 4-5 seconds. Can not pick up any other weapon. Locked to 1 Pzshrek only. Can holster Pzshrek (should be visible on the back of Sturmpio when holstered)!
    Becomes the fastest AT shooter on foot. Reason being, to compensate for its lacking DPS against vehicles!

    Option 3./ For 70 ammo, 1 Pzshrek add snare (Panzerfaust)! Enough to scare off the enemy. DPS remains the same but provides at least proper, viable AT support.


    Currently, it is not even a shock AT,
    not even a reasonable DPS for AT handheld compared to others especially for that price. Being Outperfomed by Penals "AT package" by 2-3 times. Dont forgot to compare the price also!
    not even a viable AT support unit as it is right now!

    It should be a default thing. Not "Pzfusiliers" Doctrinal otherwise. IT IS A LAME & DULL RESOLUTION! What is the point of having Doctrines when something that should have been implemented by default! Which is proper AT package for Sturmpio. There will be no diversity, because OKW really needs proper AT at the end of the day!

    This should be fixed and its quite a major problem. Why should they have to suffer with more AT issues than they already do, as well when they suffer majorly on fuel.

    If one has difficulties in obtaining fuel (which is OKW of all factions) than they should have proper counters against Vehicles. That is how balancing should be!

    Not both difficulties in acquiring Fuel and difficulties in countering Vehicles. OKW without Tanks are for sure screwed up. THEY NEED IMPROVEMENTS ON THEIR (AT) ACCESSIBILITY!!!

  • #19
    2 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > @38Lightning said:
    > Personally I would never put any hand held anti tank weapons on any infantry other than engineers as they cant effectively fight main line Infantry anyway unless they specialize close quarters and get the drop on them.....
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > (Spoiler)
    >
    > Sturmpio is quite an example in this instance. Since it is an engineer and they are mainly useful for repairing but combat is not such a huge speciality. Sturmpio you have to always find the opportunity to close the gap quickly in order to make the utmost use in infantry engagements. Not a problem. The problem is their selection of choices for OKW is rather lacking in terms of AT accessibility.
    >
    > If anyone wanted a mobile AT infantry unit when playing as OKW, it is not possible because Sturmpio AT is really the worst in game. 70 ammo is a lot for something that provides little in comparison to a Penal 60 ammo AT Package. It should be good or as good, that is what I pointing at. Not bad or inefficient. Just enough so that it provides a good enough support. It needs to be better than it is now!
    >
    > DEVS of COH2, PLEASE look into this issue and FIX IT PLEASE.
    >
    > It is very useful in the beginning the Sturmpio but it does not become such a viable combat unit throughout the course of the game. Mostly, Volks are the better and the only ideal choice in most infantry combat situations.
    >
    > I mean AT option is there for Sturmpio. I would like to use it more often instead but I can not because I know I would be wasting my ammo on something that is of no proper use. It is simply not worth it for its lacking efficiency!
    >
    > Sturmpio has an AT upgrade that costs 70 ammo which is hell of a lot of ammo that provides little effectiveness overall. It should simply be better for that price. That is where I am getting at!
    >
    > Here are some ideas, I think Sturmpio AT 70 ammo package should be like. 1 of the 3 options
    >
    > Option 1./ Locked behind 1 Base, Package becomes available. For 100 ammo, get 2 Pzshreks like what Pzgrens have. Becomes a shock AT unit
    >
    > Option 2./ Same cost 70 ammo still 1 Pzshrek but shoots every 4-5 seconds. Can not pick up any other weapon. Locked to 1 Pzshrek only. Can holster Pzshrek (should be visible on the back of Sturmpio when holstered)!
    > Becomes the fastest AT shooter on foot. Reason being, to compensate for its lacking DPS against vehicles!
    >
    > Option 3./ For 70 ammo, 1 Pzshrek add snare (Panzerfaust)! Enough to scare off the enemy. DPS remains the same but provides at least proper, viable AT support.
    >
    > Currently, it is not even a shock AT,
    > not even a reasonable DPS for AT handheld compared to others especially for that price. Being Outperfomed by Penals "AT package" by 2-3 times. Dont forgot to compare the price also!
    > not even a viable AT support unit as it is right now!
    >
    > It should be a default thing. Not "Pzfusiliers" Doctrinal otherwise. IT IS A LAME & DULL RESOLUTION! What is the point of having Doctrines when something that should have been implemented by default! Which is proper AT package for Sturmpio. There will be no diversity, because OKW really needs proper AT at the end of the day!
    >
    > This should be fixed and its quite a major problem. Why should they have to suffer with more AT issues than they already do, as well when they suffer majorly on fuel.
    >
    > If one has difficulties in obtaining fuel (which is OKW of all factions) than they should have proper counters against Vehicles. That is how balancing should be!
    >
    > Not both difficulties in acquiring Fuel and difficulties in countering Vehicles. OKW without Tanks are for sure screwed up. THEY NEED IMPROVEMENTS ON THEIR (AT) ACCESSIBILITY!!!

    The thing is it originally cost 70 munitions instead of 50 because of higher penetration
    and it also got rid of the vulnerability to cold weather which was a big bonus that no longer being in the picture 70 munitions is no longer a viable cost I do agree with but perhaps 60 but keep snare on volks as that way you have more units being your mainline units you will want more of course that will be capable of snares.

    Of course you could simply increase cost to 80 instead you get both the panzershek and hazard removal package giveing them a reason to exist and more versitile having minesweeper plus faster repairs which is not to much to ask for since rear echelons can get 1 bazooka and 1 mine sweeper though they dont repair faster they do have more options In Weaponry and cheaper so ide say fair trade off.

    Likewise same with brits except they can get weapons and snare on the engineer but they won't be massing engineers so less snare opportunities.

    Still allows for the new elite units a reason to have x2 shreck also.

    Personally I think ost x2 shreck should be priced higher than 100 and even given the option of just one or both like 60 per do to higher pen values and range as they do get massed way to easily and even pen usf "heavy" armor while haveing so much dps you cant react fast enough and dont even need to be snared either.

    But at the same time as ost waiting for 100 munitions is a god awful long time if your looking at a universal carrier with flamethrowers especially if you already upgraded your mainline units with a gun or been using grenades.
  • #20
    2 months ago
    NapalmNapalm Posts: 305 mod

    Moving from general discussion to the balance forum.

  • #21
    2 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200
    edited June 28

    @38Lightning said:
    The thing is it originally cost 70 munitions instead of 50 because of higher penetration
    and it also got rid of the vulnerability to cold weather which was a big bonus that no longer being in the picture 70 munitions is no longer a viable cost I do agree with but perhaps 60 but keep snare on volks as that way you have more units being your mainline units you will want more of course that will be capable of snares.

    Of course you could simply increase cost to 80 instead you get both the panzershek and hazard removal package giveing them a reason to exist and more versitile having minesweeper plus faster repairs which is not to much to ask for since rear echelons can get 1 bazooka and 1 mine sweeper though they dont repair faster they do have more options In Weaponry and cheaper so ide say fair trade off.

    Likewise same with brits except they can get weapons and snare on the engineer but they won't be massing engineers so less snare opportunities.

    Still allows for the new elite units a reason to have x2 shreck also.

    Personally I think ost x2 shreck should be priced higher than 100 and even given the option of just one or both like 60 per do to higher pen values and range as they do get massed way to easily and even pen usf "heavy" armor while haveing so much dps you cant react fast enough and dont even need to be snared either.

    But at the same time as ost waiting for 100 munitions is a god awful long time if your looking at a universal carrier with flamethrowers especially if you already upgraded your mainline units with a gun or been using grenades.

    I mean, every faction has a defined AT role, handeld user. All being able to perform as a lethal, stand alone AT unit.

    Of all AT units available in game. Sturmpio for price, performance and accessibility. Is simply the worst and why is that?

    It is has not been looked over nor has it been updated because its description remains the same, as well as its purpose. Sure it had served back then, BUT HOW ABOUT NOW!!!

    It should stand out as others do, because it should be an option for them also. They simply have nothing proper in terms of AT because of their lacking accessibility.

    If Rak, Puma and Sturmpio sucks late game. What can they rely on.

    SU can rely on Penals AT package being one of the best, Zis better overall in AT
    UKF also do the same, strong AT options
    USF also, strong AT options
    WEHR also. strong AT options
    but simply not OKW, since it is lacking AT options

    Why is that?

    It simply should be looked over and fixed.

  • #22
    2 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    @balancedgamer each faction is the weakest somewhere. Okw is mp AT however it has the most FUEL AT options. The rak needs changes for sure but man AT if it can be abused it WILL be abuse. Okw had readily accessible and durable man AT and what happened? It got abused to ever loving fuck so now they suffer. It sucks but it was a decision made by the players who wanted easy mode and now we lack the option entirely.

    Side note, the puma certainly doesn't suck late game. Needs micro sure, but suck? Noooo by late game it shouldn't be your only source of AT but with vet it will ensure you win against any vehicle if only due to its vet ability. Well worth it especially if you use it to stop a light tank as well.
  • #23
    2 months ago
    FreeSpeechFreeSpeech Posts: 34

    @Balanced_Gamer said:

    I mean, every faction has a defined AT role, handeld user. All being able to perform as a lethal, stand alone AT unit.

    Of all AT units available in game. Sturmpio for price, performance and accessibility. Is simply the worst and why is that?

    It is has not been looked over nor has it been updated because its description remains the same, as well as its purpose. Sure it had served back then, BUT HOW ABOUT NOW!!!

    It should stand out as others do, because it should be an option for them also. They simply have nothing proper in terms of AT because of their lacking accessibility.

    If Rak, Puma and Sturmpio sucks late game. What can they rely on.

    SU can rely on Penals AT package being one of the best, Zis better overall in AT
    UKF also do the same, strong AT options
    USF also, strong AT options
    WEHR also. strong AT options
    but simply not OKW, since it is lacking AT options

    Why is that?

    It simply should be looked over and fixed.

    I think u make a great error in your thinking. Why.
    Axis has the best AT hand held wepaons in terms of penetration and damage (160 pen and 40 dmg for far). Shrecks have for most allied tanks a pen of 1. Bazookas have 110/26 for far. Against a PZ4 they have .61 chance to pen. So 1 shreck equals 2 Bazookas in terms of total damage. This slightly changes with XP. So basically axis is quite OP with handheld at weapons. The idea that 1 unit shoudl stand out with 60 DPS at range 10 against infantry with 4 models and then having 1 shreck and still 45 DPS is quite nice. And with 3 squads u can just roam and kill everything. ....

  • #24
    1 month ago
    FaxFax Posts: 45

    Comparing PTRS to Shreks I think it's not that easy... yes PTRS penals have satchel but you have to get close and squads might get a model or 2 dropped if you try to charge against any vehicle with an MG upgraded, a PShrek has more damage and can shoot from a much more safe distance and still pen frontally with high damage to a medium or even a heavy tank (it will take more shots but it will)

    Why would you wanna give stronger AT to OKW? the rak is pretty strong imo, get 2 and you won't have any allied medium tank rushing you or anything, you muts have a bait to take the first shots then push or just spot them first and focus... I would dare to say it's pretty damn strong when it's the only early AT that can retreat and garrison along with vet0 camo...

    Yes it's pretty weak in terms of HP because you must retreat if almost any infantry sees it or either you will give your enemy a free rak... which I mostly do try to steal when playing as ally.

    I think mostly it needs some adjust regarding rak, and sturmpio is already good vs infantry it don't think they really need more AT than they already have.

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