[OKW/OST/TEAM GAMES] Tiger, Tiger Ace RUSH

#1
8 months ago
OberOber Posts: 106
edited June 2019 in Balance Feedback
This is a petition for the balance team and relic staff to leave the tigers in the current state, i see tons of messages from 3 or 4 players crying a river because the game is more balanced now and i going to explain why:

1. The tiger should be like his name say... something to fear of, i remember the old state of tiger (ace 17 cp) and the standard tiger (13 cp) after 20 - 25 min call in and then fighting vs mass veted jacksons and firefly killing everything in safe range, that was literally a joke.

2. The allies got the advantage to get every kind of weapons like the axis but some are even better, for example; now the allies can access to mortars (the 3 nations), big problems for mg and the poor and weak axis emplacements i can list all the examples here but will take all the day, and then why the tigers should be worst or the same or come later than the allies super TD, if they got the best TD and other options to fight vs 15 min tiger.

3. The only 2 units exclusive en role for the axis is the JT and Elefant, doctrinal and require good micro, hard to play with.. everything else is the same or even worst than the allies counterpart: mortars, untorrets TD, artillery, Ai tanks, AA tanks, super satchels AT, fire grenades, mini arty and a long list, and then the tigers need to be inmthe current estate to make some difference, and yes guys the tiger should be something to fear like it was

4. The balance patch was created by the community, pro players and relic staff after months of testing and work, so i dont think that they did a bad patch, for me this is the best patch in years, so thank you.

5. How you can leave the enemy get 400 of fuel to go straight for tiger? And then u should ask to yourself this:
A. what i did with my 400 fuel?(talking with the same skills and fuel income) because if you play bad 15mins this is l2p issue

B. The enemy played better than me those 15 min?

C. If only wehrmatch can make fuel cache how a okw player can get 400 fuel im 12 and 15 min?

D. The enemy did 0 tanks and ht 15 min and get ace tiger, maybe need practice?

5. I dont need to show my stats here, but i have more than 6000 hours of game, im not saying than by this i must to be right in balance, but trust me i know very well the game.
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Comments

  • #2
    8 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    I do agree that the patch has brought nice changes in the game. The "General Changes" which helped improve the state of the game. I am glad they did that. Osteehr was really in a poor spot. Other changes in other factions that were adjusted better also. SU slight improvements and changes which is nice!

    I mean the Tiger Ace does come quite too early, I have to admit and it should be given a CP like all other Heavy Tanks.

    I think what they could do it to set all Heavy Tanks limit to 12 CP. They wont come too early neither too late as most heavy tanks do!

    17 CP is kinda ridiculous. Does not really become a viable option then. All heavy tanks should be arriving around 12-14 CP.

    I do not mind a Heavy Tanks earlier but the issue is, it is Osteehr who only can currently do that! I do not see how other factions make that suitable or happen due to how their teching system works.


    OKW having no caches a still somewhat an issue. It should be resolved through giving them proper AT gear to counter this issue. Why, because their AT accessibility and capabilities is the worst in early to mid game. Rak and Sturmpio AT needs improvements.

    In general, OKW is not that good of a choice compared to Osteehr in the Axis side. Reasons why is that their options are not as viable, proficient, and as well their timing. Lacking in AT is the major issue. OKW needs some kind of revamp on its units and timing. Just so that it feels good enough.

    Despite having the Tiger Ace for Osteehr, even without it, there is really no clear reason to use OKW not that it is a better team player overall.


    SU needs changes with the Conscript upgrade coming earlier to T3 instead. Maybe even when 2 bases are built. To make it diverse.

    A resolution for making SU team weapons to perform better, I suggest making it 5 man, possibly 4 man so that it suppresses better. Depending on the adjustments and whether it is justified.


    UKF, should have a default mobile mortar. At least an alternative. Comet should get some improvements since I feel it is not consistent enough against infantry but take the Phosphorous away as compensation. Otherwise it is a bit too much.


    USF, seems fine although I feel maybe the Riflemen could get a price decrease on their Riflemen to 260-270 manpower but make the teching for nades and weaponry somewhat a bit more than it costs now. Some kind of compensation or adjusted changes.

    Riflemen do not do that great in the beginning so making it cheaper at the cost of making tech for nades and weaponry somewhat a bit more than it is now. Seems like a good idea I would say.


    Those are my thoughts so far!

  • #3
    8 months ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32
    edited June 2019

    nonsense.. the game is completely broken in the most popular game modes

    if you don't care about 3v3 and 4v4, ie the most popular game modes and you are only concerned with 1v1 then ok, but to say the game is balance is nonsense, the balance team themselves will admit that the changes they make are purely to address 1v1 game modes as well as 2v2 - to a lesser extent.

    but to pretend that the game is balance in 3v3 and 4v4 is dishonest and couldn't be further removed from reality. are these game modes ever going to properly balance? unlikely.. but the current state of the imbalance is probably the worst it has ever been for these game modes

    the problem with the 1v1 approach is that it's far less popular than 4v4 and 3v3, so unfortunately the balance team is balancing the game for the minority and ignoring the majority.

    tiger 0cp works in 1v1, that's exactly why it was changed, it's affect on team games were brought up and ignored because the balance team is only interested in 1v1, so changes are made regardless of the impact in the larger team modes

    the only way you'll get a competitive team game with this patch is for auto-matching to pair up low skilled or inexperienced axis players with decent allied players, or for allied players to setup pre-made teams and use superior co-ordination in order to compensate for the imbalance

    this is exactly what is happening now in team games, if the system happens to match players of similar skill level the game will not last very long

  • #4
    8 months ago
    javabaljavabal Posts: 88

    I totally disagree

    The enemy played better than me those 15 min?

    and what? I think it's stupid to say that if the allies lose the first 15 minutes it's a lost game. why? Nowadays, if the axis loses the first 15 minutes it can be won with the tigers, on the part of the allies it is impossible.
    In that case put 0cp to pershing, Crocodile and IS-2, because when they arrive at the field, the axis already has many squads with Panzershrecks, panthers, elephants and JT and they do not help me much. I want to kill all the units easily and win.

    The allies got the advantage to get every kind of weapons like the axis but some are even better, for example; now the allies can access to mortars (the 3 nations), big problems for mg and the poor and weak axis emplacements i can list all the examples here but will take all the day, and then why the tigers should be worst or the same or come later than the allies super TD, if they got the best TD and other options to fight vs 15 min tiger.

    really?
    tell me that an allied engineer is better than Sturmpioneer in the beginning of the game?
    Tell me what Indirect Allied fire tank is better than SdKfz 251?
    Tell me what allied unit is better than Obersoldaten?
    Tell me what allied tank is better than the Panther or King Tiger to advance?
    Tell me what allied mg is better than MG42?
    Tell me what allied anti-tank squad is better than Panzergrenadiers?
    Tell me what tank allied against infantry is better than Brummbär?

  • #5
    8 months ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32

    really?
    tell me that an allied engineer is better than Sturmpioneer in the beginning of the game?
    Tell me what Indirect Allied fire tank is better than SdKfz 251?
    Tell me what allied unit is better than Obersoldaten?
    Tell me what allied tank is better than the Panther or King Tiger to advance?
    Tell me what allied mg is better than MG42?
    Tell me what allied anti-tank squad is better than Panzergrenadiers?
    Tell me what tank allied against infantry is better than Brummbär?

    if we are playing that game lets not forget

    • best pak at gun, best pen, quickest reload, stun rape feature and usually used against paper thin armour
    • best 0cp assault units ass grens
    • best one shot mines or for heavier tanks disables completely until repair

    and what engineer is better than the strumpioneer? at any stage of the game? and yes axis fanbois want buffs because an engineer doesn't scale the best in a combat role late game LOL.. best repair speed outside of tech'd and upgraded royals, best damage, survivability.. yes buff more please lol

  • #6
    8 months ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,326 mod

    (moderator input) Let's attempt to keep all the civil talk about the Tiger Ace (including the rush) within one thread.

  • #7
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    Since Tiger is snapped into Ost Tier4, why the rest of Heavy dont have the same access?
    Tier snapping is required to make up the build time (including King, Churchill). CP is also required to make them later than medium.

  • #8
    8 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,823
    @C3Tooth they have stated that this is a trial run to see if it's viable at all. The reason it's axis sided is because both axis commanders had tigers in them and thus tweaking them was in scope. Next patch all heavies will be in scope. Bear with friend, the removal of medium armour from the game is coming for all!
  • #9
    8 months ago
    yes Other heavy tank should also be add in tech tree if you have some access to heavy tank you should be able to push for advantage if you have resource avalible but there should be some extra feul cost for heavy just like werh tier 4 cost maybe 30-50 feul at tech cost.
  • #10
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    At least this Tiger Ace balance problem will be addressed shortly, hopefuly Grenadiers or Panzergrenadiers get a slight town down as well.

  • #11
    8 months ago
    No heavy tank should be tread like superior medium tank not tier skiping comeback unit.
  • #12
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    they have stated that this is a trial run to see if it's viable at all. The reason it's axis sided is because both axis commanders had tigers in them and thus tweaking them was in scope. Next patch all heavies will be in scope. Bear with friend, the removal of medium armour from the game is coming for all!

    Thats why I said CP point is Must to make Heavy comes late. Tech snapping is for build time. Can not ignore one of them. I know they will fix it but what made they think The Ace 0CP call in is a good idea to even make it a patch.

  • #13
    7 months ago
    We don't need CP to delay tiger we it already have resource price to pay slow the arrival time down.Tiger is just a unit no different more than medium or light armor it can be beaten by other units that have similar feul cost.Rushing tiger mean you give up mid and early game light and medium armor and enemy can take full advantage of that.If enemy throw medium and light armor at you and you somehow maintain 50% map control with just infantry then you should be reward with tiger.

    But i do agree with adding build time to tiger since tiger should be tread like other armor unit which are tide with build time.
  • #14
    7 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 52

    Regarding the first post... WHAT???

    MG42 sucks? (tell me about maxim and how it doesn't have armor pen bulelts...)
    PAK40 sucks? (has cc ability and better pen than any other allied AT gun)
    Allied TD can kill anything form safe distance? (that's kinda the point of a TD, even though max range doesn't grant 100% pen chance specially against heavies)

    Elefant and JT are hard to micro? (well maybe yes cuz they're slow af but tell me if there are heavy TD for allies?, not assault gun... TD)

    Now... if you're talking about historical accuracy regarding the Tiger... then ISU-152 (which has bigger gun compared to Tiger or Elefant) should be dealing way more damage with AP rounds since it's a 152mm cannon... IS-2 also has a 122mm gun and should never bounce off a Tiger or Panther in that case!

    I agree that Tiger comes too early... it's not impossible to counter!, but it's quite hard especially in team games where axis can spam ass grens and push your lines hard and pzfusiliers with G43s that can snipe from safe distance

    Again it's not impossible but it's feels kinda broken atm...

    I feel Tiger is ok but all other heavies need something changed along with other faction details like OKW caches as mentioned before.

  • #15
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721
    edited July 2019

    Someone please tell me we already pay tech to build Light tanks then why we have to build tech for Medium tanks?

  • #16
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721
    edited July 2019

    No answer? Ok let me tell the flaw of your logic.

    Your logic:
    How can Allies let the Axis save the fuel and go straight to Tiger that come around at 450fuel? At that time we should almost have 2 TD (~500fuel), there also should be ATgun,snare,Zook to deal with Tiger.

    Image a Sherman is a doctrine unit that put in the same Tier as Stuart. Now apply your logic:
    How can you leave USF save fuel and go straight to Sherman at ~170fuel? At that time you almost have 2 Puma (200fuel) & Volk snare, Sturm shreck, Rak to deal with Sherman anyway. Now image Puma is your best unit.


    Med tank requires another tech away from Light tank is to leave the Light tank has game play time period. This is the same as Heavy requires 13 CP.

    Since the beginning for Coh2, a Light tank comes only earlier than a Med ~6min (if the enemy skips Light tank) doesnt give enough time for Light. The developers/balancers should encourage Light tank game play by raise Medium tech cost another 100fuel.
    About the heavy, except super long range tanks like Elephant/Jad/ISU cause fear to enemy. Tiger/IS2/Pershing dont, your point of view on Tiger being overwhelmed by Allies TD is the same as IS2, Pershing being overwhelmed by Panthers. Heavy are only equal to 1 and a half of Med tank. We should raise up their cost & buff them well good to make these unit more fearsome at 13 CP (or can be higher CP). Heavy tanks should be the last resource for final push/defense, not alternate way to skip non-doc tanks.

    Same should be applied to Elite infantries, raise their cost, buff them good, limited to 1.

  • #17
    7 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 825

    It used to be that the tiger was just a tier 4 unit to build, and it was excellent. This is just that, and it is how wehr was designed. After all, being the only army with 4 tech trees and expensive tech, it only makes sense that you get rewarded for teching all the way up, as it was in coh1.

  • #18
    7 months ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited July 2019
    @C3Tooth I don't see how the hack you having problem using 2 puma and fight with a sherman since you have full advantage here from.range and mobility you can kite him all day long and he still cant thouch you.

    Going heavy as ost require battle phase 3 so we can not said they put sherman on same tier with stuart.

    Rush for heavy tank left you wide open for light and medium rush.I don't know what you can do with that 6 min but in competitive game it change the map control ratio to 60:40 and some time even 80:20 which further delay the tiger and increase you feul income in some case player even have 3 medium when tiger fanally come out.

    The reason that i did not mention this because the skill level of the man that i recently talk with is very low(get beat by mg spam even when using counter unit) he is very likely to run his light armor in to snare and get kill by at.And playing light armor do require some skill.That why i offer the easier option that require much less skill that is to buy specialise unit that will have good time fighthing tiger even when you have little skill.


    And i am telling you that heavy tank should be just a battle field option unit which have it own strenght(armor health) and weakness (dps compare to other medium and range compare to TD)

    If ask for heavy tank buff to create some kind of super overpower unit like ranger that can switch to shreak and throw bundle grenade likein US campian I will have to said NO.Heavy tank should be just like normal unit that have strenght and weakness that can be powerful if you play correctly but can also get kill by enemy that have same amout of resource if you make mistake.Not a "NO BRAIN INVESTMENT"that basicly overpower all other unit in game.
  • #19
    7 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,665

    @ARMYguy said:
    It used to be that the tiger was just a tier 4 unit to build, and it was excellent. This is just that, and it is how wehr was designed. After all, being the only army with 4 tech trees and expensive tech, it only makes sense that you get rewarded for teching all the way up, as it was in coh1.

    In what world?
    Tiger was always call-in.
    Elephant was stock in alpha, but then again, in alpha T34 had 80 damage, you needed 5 to kill 1 P4 and panther had 60 range and 1240 health - I wouldn't refer to any alpha "balance" as "intended design".

    Also, its team games, its extemely easy to get that fuel because of cache spam and luftwaffe supply fuel drops.

    In CoH1 you also had heavies as call-ins only and at NO fuel cost, so no idea what you're trying to praise here, when CoH1 had even more problems in that regard.

  • #20
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    I can use 2 Jackson fighting 3 Panthers can killed 2 without death Jackson. So I can use 2 Puma to easy kill a Sherman with their take turn of stun shot.
    You're trying to apply the 'skill' again. So stop. I do not speak on 'skill'

    Im speaking of the time period for each Light, Med & Heavy. Doc units should be an alternate choice, not a replacement.

    • Pathfinder 290mp can not do anything without Riflemen shield them.
    • Even T34/85 is not a great choice at some case since T34/76 can cause more problem with their more health for the same fuel (2 T34/85 take 10 shot, 3 T34/76 take 12 shot)
    • Cavalry RM can not replace RM because they dont have grenade to actually clean up infantry or MG, you still need RM to do that job.

    Unit that replace for their non-doc faction.

    • New Brit commander M5-HT can let Brit skip 35fuel tech for Bofors/AEC. Which is not good in design of balance.
    • Remember OKW Jager Light 250mp pop out from building at 1 CP in Dec 2018 patch? Why build Volk from the base when you can keep reinforce non stop with them pop out from building.
    • AssGren, I already talk about it.

    Raise cost Heavy tank to 300fuel, buff them to make them fearsome units

    Heavy tank should be just like normal unit that have strenght and weakness that can be powerful if you play correctly but can also get kill by enemy that have same amout of resource if you make mistake.Not a "NO BRAIN INVESTMENT"that basicly overpower all other unit in game.

    Save fuel for a Tiger possible at 12min isnt no brain invesment. We get it sir.

    Are you going to teach me how to get better at Coh2? I need your skill.

  • #21
    7 months ago

    @C3Tooth said:
    I can use 2 Jackson fighting 3 Panthers can killed 2 without death Jackson. So I can use 2 Puma to easy kill a Sherman with their take turn of stun shot.
    You're trying to apply the 'skill' again. So stop. I do not speak on 'skill'

    Im speaking of the time period for each Light, Med & Heavy. Doc units should be an alternate choice, not a replacement.

    • Pathfinder 290mp can not do anything without Riflemen shield them.
    • Even T34/85 is not a great choice at some case since T34/76 can cause more problem with their more health for the same fuel (2 T34/85 take 10 shot, 3 T34/76 take 12 shot)
    • Cavalry RM can not replace RM because they dont have grenade to actually clean up infantry or MG, you still need RM to do that job.

    Unit that replace for their non-doc faction.

    • New Brit commander M5-HT can let Brit skip 35fuel tech for Bofors/AEC. Which is not good in design of balance.
    • Remember OKW Jager Light 250mp pop out from building at 1 CP in Dec 2018 patch? Why build Volk from the base when you can keep reinforce non stop with them pop out from building.
    • AssGren, I already talk about it.

    Raise cost Heavy tank to 300fuel, buff them to make them fearsome units

    Heavy tank should be just like normal unit that have strenght and weakness that can be powerful if you play correctly but can also get kill by enemy that have same amout of resource if you make mistake.Not a "NO BRAIN INVESTMENT"that basicly overpower all other unit in game.

    Save fuel for a Tiger possible at 12min isnt no brain invesment. We get it sir.

    Are you going to teach me how to get better at Coh2? I need your skill.

    1 How can we argue about strategie game without taking skill in to consideration?.If you want to make the point by taking away all skill in game (using range flanking game reading)then rightclick unit like kingtiger would be king of everything already.

    Game should be balance by assuming player can pull out 100% of unit potential not base on brain dead player who only know how to right click at enemy tank.

    2 The tiger is definately alternate choice I don't understand how did you consider tiger as other unit replacement.
    If you want anti tank DPS go for 3 stug if you want anti infantry DPS then go for 3 ostwind.Tiger is just tanky generalist unit not a no brain investment .

    3 saving feul for tiger is not no brain invesment in EVEN game since it left you wide open for......

    Oh god i already explain this

    Rush for heavy tank left you wide open for light and medium rush.I don't know what you can do with that 6 min but in competitive game it change the map control ratio to 60:40 and some time even 80:20 which further delay the tiger and increase you feul income in some case player even have 3 medium when tiger fanally come out.

    If your enemy don't know how to push his advantage with light or medium armor then saving feul for big chease is a viable option.

    But you want to the game to be balance base on your enemy don't know how to take advantage from medium and light armor??????

    That 12 min tiger most of the time come from enemy team holding most feul and almost full feul cache if enemy can hold out both feul and spare 250 mp for each feul cache and you still can't take advantage from that well that is mean you don't know how to play or having much inferior skill compae to your enemy.

    If enemy rush king tiger out it will be almost same story.And why isn't it a problem?

    So you want the balance the game base on one side winning game while beating scarce allies???

    If you have same amout of resource tiger is nothing to be fear but if you barely have anything because enemy took both feul and fully build feul cache.

    For example MR."I have t-70 enemy have tiger" that have viking profile pick he basicly lost both feul and enemy have full feul cache and he barely get anything then tiger come out and he get crush.You want the game to be balance like that? one side get out play and get taking away all resource and yell for balance.

    Are you that kind of person who want to balance the game base one side get both feul and full feul cache compare with other side who basicly get nothing?? is that how game suppose to be balance @C3Tooth ????

  • #22
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    I didnt read but can you teach me how to play?

  • #23
    7 months ago

    You have to learn how to live in community frist.

    FRIST LESSON

    If you are not doctor or pharmacist you should not try to change the medicine ingrediant.

    If you are not a person who is capable or atleast know how to using a unit at it's full potential you should not try to "help" balance the game.

    Yes the admin said this forum are friendly to everyone but for the sake of the game.It should be balance base on person who know how to play the game not from newbie that still asking people how to play the game.

    @C3Tooth said:
    I didnt read but can you teach me how to play?

    Thank you for admiting that you are incapable of playing the game and still have much to learn.Yes i can teach you but after i help fix this game.

    Frist thing that me as your teacher going to tell you to do is to stepback and let the people that know the game work and know how to use unit help balance the game.And one day when you have enough knowledge to not ask people to teach you anymore you will be able to help balance the game.But for now just step back and watch the person who is capable of using unit do the job.

  • #24
    7 months ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,326 mod
    (moderator input) please leave any discussions that are about telling others to L2P out of any balance discussions. Stick to the topic at hand. Everyone is welcome to participate in this thread despite their skill or rank.
  • #25
    7 months ago
    With respect MR.admin but how are we suppose to balance the game with out taking skill in to consideration.

    Previously in high tier game the tiger1 is a giant pinyata because the time that it come out enemy player already have all the counter ready and the heavy tank get kite by TD all day long and with the recent balance patch that allow player to push their resource advantage and send out their such unit in mid game where enemy don't 100% have 1-2 TD in control yet.

    Does this change make tiger op?

    No

    1 heavy rush allow player to get beat by enemy medium and light armor rush.

    2 tiger also can be beat by other unit woth same amout of resource investment.

    Both of this point create by assuming both player have same amout of skill not one side hold 2 feul and get full feul cache when anather side barely have any resource.

    But according to two person that i recently argue with

    1 tiger come to early because allies barely get any feul

    2 other person consider tiger op when we don't take Skill(using range or flanking) in to consideration as the statement

    "You're trying to apply the 'skill' again. So stop. I do not speak on skill"

    SO everyone we going to balance the game today.But frist we need to take in to consideration that allies will lose both feul and axis will have 200 feul lead so we have to delay german armor as long as possible so allies can have time save up for their own tank.Secound is we not going to take skill in to consideration so we must assume player not going use range for their advantage and not going to flank enemy.So we should just assume that if elephant can destroy 5 t-34 frontally when no t-34try to manuver around it should be consider overpower.

    Do you honestly want the game balance to be like that @le12ro ??
  • #26
    7 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,823

    @C3Tooth said:
    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    they have stated that this is a trial run to see if it's viable at all. The reason it's axis sided is because both axis commanders had tigers in them and thus tweaking them was in scope. Next patch all heavies will be in scope. Bear with friend, the removal of medium armour from the game is coming for all!

    Thats why I said CP point is Must to make Heavy comes late. Tech snapping is for build time. Can not ignore one of them. I know they will fix it but what made they think The Ace 0CP call in is a good idea to even make it a patch.

    i dont disagree, however its not an axis v allies issue (well, atm it IS, but its not intended to be) as it was just what was in scope. if anything the power of allied TDs makes it a little less oppressive than if it was allied tanks not restricted
    at any rate i agree they should have SOME restriction beyond tech as it simply brings us back to heavy tank stall. mediums should be the heart of all tank play, not TDs and not heavy tanks in my humble opinion

  • #27
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    Light, dont forget light.
    Light has the cost of 2/3 Medium but they only have 5-7min in hand until Medium time play come (if enemy skip Light) or ~10min if both side use Light. Which most player skip it.

    I agree the tank game should be around the core Medium.

    As today I mostly skip Sherman to get a Jackson because I afraid of Sherman can not do anything to Panther. When my enemy mostly skip Pz4 to get a Panther because they afraid of Pz4 can not do anything to TDs.
    ^ this become a perfect circle that makes the game becomes the fight between TDs & Panther/Heavy like today.

    I think there is a way to fix it, is limit Premium Med/Heavy & TDs. This will ensure core Medium is always on field.

  • #28
    7 months ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited July 2019
    > @Holyspirit999 said:
    > @C3Tooth said:
    > I can use 2 Jackson fighting 3 Panthers can killed 2 without death Jackson. So I can use 2 Puma to easy kill a Sherman with their take turn of stun shot.
    > You're trying to apply the 'skill' again. So stop. I do not speak on 'skill'
    >
    > Im speaking of the time period for each Light, Med & Heavy. Doc units should be an alternate choice, not a replacement.
    >
    >
    > * Pathfinder 290mp can not do anything without Riflemen shield them.
    > * Even T34/85 is not a great choice at some case since T34/76 can cause more problem with their more health for the same fuel (2 T34/85 take 10 shot, 3 T34/76 take 12 shot)
    > * Cavalry RM can not replace RM because they dont have grenade to actually clean up infantry or MG, you still need RM to do that job.
    >
    > Unit that replace for their non-doc faction.
    >
    >
    > * New Brit commander M5-HT can let Brit skip 35fuel tech for Bofors/AEC. Which is not good in design of balance.
    > * Remember OKW Jager Light 250mp pop out from building at 1 CP in Dec 2018 patch? Why build Volk from the base when you can keep reinforce non stop with them pop out from building.
    > * AssGren, I already talk about it.
    >
    > Raise cost Heavy tank to 300fuel, buff them to make them fearsome units
    >
    > Heavy tank should be just like normal unit that have strenght and weakness that can be powerful if you play correctly but can also get kill by enemy that have same amout of resource if you make mistake.Not a "NO BRAIN INVESTMENT"that basicly overpower all other unit in game.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Save fuel for a Tiger possible at 12min isnt no brain invesment. We get it sir.
    >
    > Are you going to teach me how to get better at Coh2? I need your skill.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > 1 How can we argue about strategie game without taking skill in to consideration?.If you want to make the point by taking away all skill in game (using range flanking game reading)then rightclick unit like kingtiger would be king of everything already.
    >
    > Game should be balance by assuming player can pull out 100% of unit potential not base on brain dead player who only know how to right click at enemy tank.
    >
    > 2 The tiger is definately alternate choice I don't understand how did you consider tiger as other unit replacement.
    > If you want anti tank DPS go for 3 stug if you want anti infantry DPS then go for 3 ostwind.Tiger is just tanky generalist unit not a no brain investment .
    >
    > 3 saving feul for tiger is not no brain invesment in EVEN game since it left you wide open for......
    >
    > Oh god i already explain this
    >
    > Rush for heavy tank left you wide open for light and medium rush.I don't know what you can do with that 6 min but in competitive game it change the map control ratio to 60:40 and some time even 80:20 which further delay the tiger and increase you feul income in some case player even have 3 medium when tiger fanally come out.
    >
    > If your enemy don't know how to push his advantage with light or medium armor then saving feul for big chease is a viable option.
    >
    > But you want to the game to be balance base on your enemy don't know how to take advantage from medium and light armor??????
    >
    > That 12 min tiger most of the time come from enemy team holding most feul and almost full feul cache if enemy can hold out both feul and spare 250 mp for each feul cache and you still can't take advantage from that well that is mean you don't know how to play or having much inferior skill compae to your enemy.
    >
    > If enemy rush king tiger out it will be almost same story.And why isn't it a problem?
    >
    > So you want the balance the game base on one side winning game while beating scarce allies???
    >
    > If you have same amout of resource tiger is nothing to be fear but if you barely have anything because enemy took both feul and fully build feul cache.
    >
    > For example MR."I have t-70 enemy have tiger" that have viking profile pick he basicly lost both feul and enemy have full feul cache and he barely get anything then tiger come out and he get crush.You want the game to be balance like that? one side get out play and get taking away all resource and yell for balance.
    >
    > Are you that kind of person who want to balance the game base one side get both feul and full feul cache compare with other side who basicly get nothing?? is that how game suppose to be balance @C3Tooth ????

    I already explain the effect of light and medium armor rush to resource income but someone still refuse to read and making new comment prematurely.

    I like the freedom of speech rule that the admin perpose

    (removed)
  • #29
    7 months ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited July 2019
    You know what @C3Tooth ?

    I am tired of you going through thing that I already explain.

    @thedarkarmadillo we judge the comment by merit in it right?

    How much merit did you see from this prematurely comment that already have answer explained above?
  • #30
    7 months ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,326 mod
    A patch has been released which addresses the issue at hand.
  • #31
    7 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 825
    edited July 2019

    @Katitof said:

    @ARMYguy said:
    It used to be that the tiger was just a tier 4 unit to build, and it was excellent. This is just that, and it is how wehr was designed. After all, being the only army with 4 tech trees and expensive tech, it only makes sense that you get rewarded for teching all the way up, as it was in coh1.

    In what world?
    Tiger was always call-in.
    Elephant was stock in alpha, but then again, in alpha T34 had 80 damage, you needed 5 to kill 1 P4 and panther had 60 range and 1240 health - I wouldn't refer to any alpha "balance" as "intended design".

    Also, its team games, its extemely easy to get that fuel because of cache spam and luftwaffe supply fuel drops.

    In CoH1 you also had heavies as call-ins only and at NO fuel cost, so no idea what you're trying to praise here, when CoH1 had even more problems in that regard.

    Maybe i was thinking of the elephant then. I still liked the tiger being a buildable t4 unit. It just seems right. But since 4v4 economy is screwed up, i can see why it is a bad idea.

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