M26 Pershing

#1
2 months ago
The Big Red 1The Big R… Daly City, CA, USAPosts: 681

i still keep wondering if Pershing's 230 FU is really getting my money's worth whenever i use the comet or the M4A3E8 i get what i paid for. what's even funny is comet and pershing have the same amount of HP with some "minor" differences
Comet
HP: 800
Armor: 290/110

M-26 Pershing
HP: 800
Armor: 300/110

Churchill Mark 7
HP: 1400
Armor: 375/140

Churchill Crocodile
HP: 1080
Armor: 290/180

Churchill AVRE
HP: 1080
Armor: 290/180

IS-2
HP: 1040
Armor: 375/140

ISU-152 "Zveroboy/Beast Killer"
HP: 1040
Armor: 340/155

KV-1
HP: 800
Armor: 270/165

KV-2
HP: 1040
Armor: 300/180

KV-8
HP: 800
Armor: 260/145

Comet costs i believe 185 FU to build while M26 costs 230 FU. the other allied heavies seem to give you what you pay for. it still baffles my mind that Pershing still hasn't been made either a bit cheaper or had its HP buffed to make its price worthwhile instead of a overpriced paper tin foil squishy hard hitting heavy tank it is right now.
looking at the big fat cats...
King Tiger
HP: 1280
Armor: 300/140

JagdTiger
HP: 1280
Armor: 525/110

Tiger
HP: 1040
Armor: 300/140

Tiger Ace
HP: 1280
Armor: 300/140

Elephant
HP: 1040
Armor: 400/110

In my honest opinion the way buff the pershing is one of two ways:

Option 1: Decrease the Fuel Cost from 230 to 190-210 range

Option 2: Increase the pershing's HP from 800 to 1040 or 1080

Comments

  • #2
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    Pershing main gun can deal both tank & infantry. Its kind of a mix of Sherman HE & Jackson 90mm into one. Its vet focus only on reload speed makes no Axis infantry dare to face it.
    Except its hp is lower than a Panther makes Pershing a meal for them.

    Im ok if Pershing have defensive smoke & keep hp as 800 (its better to lure Panthers into the trap than extend Pershing hp to 1080. Like what, Axis can build 3 Panther with Blitz & Pz tactic smoke.

  • #3
    2 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821

    pershings power is in its gun and mobility- exactly as the usf faction is desinged to be. its arguably one of if not THE most lethal tank in the game and leaps and bounds above the rest for reliability. any increased durability would have to be coupled with a drop in firepower and i much prefer it to be unique and deadly with a bit of a skill cap than meh and meatshieldy

  • #4
    2 months ago
    The Big Red 1The Big R… Daly City, CA, USAPosts: 681

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    pershings power is in its gun and mobility- exactly as the usf faction is desinged to be. its arguably one of if not THE most lethal tank in the game and leaps and bounds above the rest for reliability. any increased durability would have to be coupled with a drop in firepower and i much prefer it to be unique and deadly with a bit of a skill cap than meh and meatshieldy

    regardless i feel that 230 FU is "overpriced" for its cost. i can easily almost build two M4A3E8 for that same amount of the cost per "weight per ton" it throws at the enemy

  • #5
    2 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821

    @The Big Red 1 said:

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    pershings power is in its gun and mobility- exactly as the usf faction is desinged to be. its arguably one of if not THE most lethal tank in the game and leaps and bounds above the rest for reliability. any increased durability would have to be coupled with a drop in firepower and i much prefer it to be unique and deadly with a bit of a skill cap than meh and meatshieldy

    regardless i feel that 230 FU is "overpriced" for its cost. i can easily almost build two M4A3E8 for that same amount of the cost per "weight per ton" it throws at the enemy

    you could indeed, but even a pair of E8s dont have near the same wiping potential and you have nearly 1/3 less armour. Heavy armour shouldnt always be a clear cut choice over mediums, otherwise usf only has 1 commander that is viable and an armful of waste.
    the 230 fuel price point has limitations, but the pershing is the only usf tank that can bounce a panther. its undeniably the USFs most durable tanks while ALSO being one of the games most lethal.

  • #6
    2 months ago
    The Big Red 1The Big R… Daly City, CA, USAPosts: 681
    edited July 2

    @thedarkarmadillo said:

    @The Big Red 1 said:

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    pershings power is in its gun and mobility- exactly as the usf faction is desinged to be. its arguably one of if not THE most lethal tank in the game and leaps and bounds above the rest for reliability. any increased durability would have to be coupled with a drop in firepower and i much prefer it to be unique and deadly with a bit of a skill cap than meh and meatshieldy

    regardless i feel that 230 FU is "overpriced" for its cost. i can easily almost build two M4A3E8 for that same amount of the cost per "weight per ton" it throws at the enemy

    you could indeed, but even a pair of E8s dont have near the same wiping potential and you have nearly 1/3 less armour. Heavy armour shouldnt always be a clear cut choice over mediums, otherwise usf only has 1 commander that is viable and an armful of waste.
    the 230 fuel price point has limitations, but the pershing is the only usf tank that can bounce a panther. its undeniably the USFs most durable tanks while ALSO being one of the games most lethal.

    true but panther has more to offer than what you pay for as with the other overperforming-more-bang-for-your-buck garbage the axis get. the only thing pershing got to offer is its gun and mobility nothing more. so tell me how is this fair in terms of balance?

  • #7
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    Reason you feel Panther is over performing is its able to build more than 3.
    My friend build 3 ATgun behind Pershing to bait kill Panthers and work all the time.
    By the way, Rilfemen have mine.

    I only hate Panther with blitz and smoke is a possible options

  • #8
    2 months ago
    The Big Red 1The Big R… Daly City, CA, USAPosts: 681
    edited July 2

    my build whenever i play heavy cav is as follows:
    2 engineer units
    2 rangers units
    1 Major
    1 LT
    1 Ambo
    1 M5A1 Stuart Light Tank
    1 Sherman
    1 M36 Jackson
    1 M26 Pershing

    for me RM are merely stopgap or at gun/MG stealers until rangers come in then i yolo them to free up space. Popcap adds up so i need room for them as well.

  • #9
    2 months ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    edited July 2
    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245887/usf-all-i-hope-that-pershing-strengthens-the-place#latest

    In fact, I have explained it before, but some people have the same thoughts as me. I must support it.
    The biggest problem with m26 is that too many units can kill and have no special support ability, so it is not worth investing compared with other ht, mt.
    And THEDARKARMADILLO is a bit misunderstood that m26 can only fight with a black panther, Samsung m26 is also the same as I used in the game (160 damage is insufficient) can only fight with a black panther
    C3TOOTH I told you before that except for elephants and tigers and kv8 other ht can attack tanks and infantry.
  • #10
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549
    I, and other people prefer to treat Pershing as a Med tank, perhaps like Panther command.

    If bring Pershing compared with Tiger or IS2. Each of them has pros and cons. Tiger cant do infantry, IS2 cant hit, Pershing cant tanking. I would say these 3 are really balanced.

    If you bring any of those 3 with Panther, their role is completely fade off. Example Tiger, what you get for 50fuel unit than a Panther? Lower speed, shorter range for 140hp more? Tiger armor is quite questionable to Allies TD now aday, so I dont think 140hp more of Tiger can tank better than Panther. Further more, what I noticed lately is Tiger absorb more damage from P47 air strike than Panther.
  • #11
    2 months ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    Tigers can't be infantry, IS2 can't fight, Pershing can't tank? Strange, my tiger can play infantry, is2 can get rid of enemy players, Pershing can play tanks. Why do you have such a thought? Have you ever played heavy tanks?
    And I tell you that a heavy tank needs strong power and armor and will make players afraid to qualify for high-resource heavy tanks. And do you think Pershing has it? I don’t think he will scare me.
  • #12
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    And I tell you that a heavy tank needs strong power and armor and will make players afraid to qualify for high-resource heavy tanks. And do you think Pershing has it? I don’t think he will scare me.

    You said your Pershing can tanking for other units.
    You said a HT need strong power & armor. (which is Pershing has strong power & you said "Pershing can tank")
    And you said Pershing doesnt scare you.

    I dont understand what you said.

  • #13
    2 months ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    Sorry, there is no immediate answer. I will explain the first question first. In fact, the use of heavy tanks depends on the player's concept and operating technology to decide whether it is strong but this is not war tank or dota. So Pershing can be used by players but not like other Reversing the situation like a heavy tank
    The second and third questions I have answered together have you calculated whether you have tried to kill a cp13 tank and how many units and ammunition I used. I once used only one German anti-AT and one ordinary mine to kill a 2 star full hp Pan. So Hing, for me, Pershing is the easiest kill in all cp13 tanks.
    Finally, I want to ask if the tiger, is2, Churchill crocodile can replace Pershing, will you want to change it?
  • #14
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    Im sure Pershing can 1v1 with all tanks except Panther.

    A Pershing vs a pack of Panthers is something similar to a Okw Panther command vs a pack of Comets. Except Okw have normal Panther & King as non-doc.

    Just image doctrine Pershing can come up with a non-doc IS2 & Comets. Now do you think the Pershing is weak? Well just IS2 with Comets as non-doc sounds already OP to me.

  • #15
    2 months ago
    SaltzmanSaltzman Posts: 7

    Pershing had the same armor as Tiger 1 and better gun. It doesnt perform that way in game.

  • #16
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549
    Pershing is strong, but its a unit that USF doesnt need. A unit that a faction need is can fill up the weakness of its faction.

    Example Fortification for Okw, Ostruppen for Ost fill up the lack of number (today Assgren can do it better), Shock and IS2 for Soviet. And mobility mortar for Brit ect.

    All USF units are fragile but hard hitting, Pershing is the same. Make it feel redundant.
    Image a Pershing goes with 2 Panthers to tank for Pershing would be madness. Same as if USF has a King to shield Jacksons.
  • #17
    1 month ago
    Dont judge the tank from just health and armor.Accroding from my experiance pershing have some what longer range or faster turrent rotation maybe both compare to other "big cat" plus very good mobility.Does all of this attribute sound like front line tank?

    Pershing is more suitable for gorrila warfare like snipe enemy with it long range gun and faster turrent rotation and retreat back with superior mobility.In the most case enemy will not be able to fire back.I call that "free shot" which is basicly come from the fact that enemy take damage but you don't.

    If you seek example just go watch game of throne when sir bronn fight with sir vadis In game of throne.



    basicly the sir vadis have full armor and sir bronn have light armor.And did bronn go fight head to head and trade stab with full knitgh armor to see who can endure more stab?

    No he use his advantage in mobility dancing around until sir vadis get tired then weaken him before finish him off.

    You do the same with pershing you keep dancing around get those"free shot"off and keep sniping until enemy show his weakness maybe when his support raket retreat or enemy big cat is out of position then you use your superior mobility and turrent rotation to flank and finish him off.

    Don't judge the fish by asking it to climb a tree.
  • #18
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited August 19

    Pershing does not have extra range. mobility questionable.. anyway here is a quick video of the tanks in new patch

    vs infantry i did not include machine gun fire of the Tiger

    tank vs tank Pershing gets two lucky bounces.
    Tiger fires 8 rounds and Pershing fires 6

  • #19
    4 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited August 23
    They slightly increased infantry damage again in 1.2 and reduced hvap from 90 munitions to 60 munitions although I still dont think this is enough for this ability compaired to something like spearhead on the tiger or armor piercing rounds on the Jackson 30 munitions.

    60 munitions for a single shot through obstacles that does not even do enough damage to kill an infrared halftrack that can allways see units through the fog of war for next to nothing.


    The ability is pretty limp even if they made it 0 munitions it is garbage.

    It might have longer range ( probably the biggest bonus it has) and fires 1 shot through obstacles but again it's only 1 shot low damage so it is very very underwhelming.

    Give it a duration and cooldown then at the very least I can do some attack ground if I have no vision available.
  • #20
    4 weeks ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    I support the proposal of 38LIGHTNING
    Pershing's HVAP shortcomings have a cooling time of more than 100 seconds and although it is possible to run through the tanks in a straight line, no player will arrange the tanks in a straight line and the damage is normal.
    HVAP cooling time should be as long as 10~30 seconds cooling time
  • #21
    4 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    The thing is both HVAP ability from Jackson & Pershing

    The cost
    Pershing 60ammo, cost double to Jackson.

    The number of round
    Pershing's one cost double but shoot a single round (240damage).
    If you active Jack's one with full potential, it shoots 3 rounds (200damage each).

    The micro requiring
    With Pershing, you have to aim the target, which mean target such as Panther can run away from the shooting spot before Pershing can shoot. And Pershing has to stop to do the ability, which mean easier to get hit.
    Jackson just change its shell for 20sec, you can simply click the ability and chase Panther.

    2 Jacks active the ability for 60ammo, they can shoot 6 rounds x200damage that almost guarantee pen everything except front Ele & Jadtig

  • #22
    3 days ago

    Sorry to resurrect an old discussion, but now that the patch is out, I wanted to discuss my thoughts on the Pershing as it currently is.

    From my experience with it, the loss of offensive ability vs the HP gain we got, even with the HVAP buff, just wasn't worth it. Why? Two reasons: The HP buff came with an armor nerf, which makes the Pershing more vulnerable to stugs, pumas, and panzer IVs (the last being rare). Second, the loss of firepower simply came with what I think is a wash defensively.

    I would change two things.
    1) I'd raise the Pershing's armor back to 300. If you're going to buff survivability, then buff it, don't fog it up.

    2) The HVAP ability should change. Its current form is not useful and certainly not worth it. However, it shouldn't work like the Jackson's either. Instead of raising the Pershing's already high penetration, why not...for 20 seconds, you get a 20% reduction on rate of fire. So at Vet 3, for 50 munitions, you get the old Vet 3 rate of fire for 20 seconds AND you get a rate of fire reducer for Vet 0-2 for 50 munitions, bringing its firepower back up temporarily. For balance, have a lightning symbol show over the Pershing when its active so opposing players know the ability is active.

  • #23
    3 days ago
    Would be interesting to have its ability Jack up rate of fire since it normally has less range anyway.
    Would better suit its mobility and distinguish it further from the better penetration slower fireing Jackson.
  • #24
    2 days ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    I didnt know ability makes Jack has less range. The ability names HVAP, so higher pen fit better, beside the ability is to target Super Heavies.

    But I can image it would be fun and so op over Panther/Pz4 if the ability gives Jack faster rate of fire instead

  • #25
    2 days ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited September 18
    > @C3Tooth said:
    > I didnt know ability makes Jack has less range. The ability names HVAP, so higher pen fit better, beside the ability is to target Super Heavies.
    >
    > But I can image it would be fun and so op over Panther/Pz4 if the ability gives Jack faster rate of fire instead

    No what I ment was that the pershing typically has a very low range and also sight range if you compair it to panther/tank destroyers or tiger with spearhead ability activated.

    The current HVAP ability allows you to fire into the fog of war at an extended range equal to that of a Jackson ide say only it can also shoot through objects and is only 1 shot sometimes it skips across the ground and stops before it reaches its destination wasting the shot.

    The damage that HVAP does honestly seems no different than a normal shot it does not hit hard at all so the only benefit you get is through objects at an extended range which is why I dont use it.
  • #26
    2 days ago

    Honestly, its that lack of utility in the ability. That and its just way too much micro to get it properly on target. It just doesn't suit the Pershing. Its an aggressive heavy meant for hit and run, at least in my opinion. So its HVAP ability changing to an ability that beefs up the rate of fire of the Pershing would fit that aggressive stance. On a faction that spends a lot on munitions, its legitimately not trivial to always hit that ability.

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