Game Discussion 4v4

#1
1 month ago
38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
edited August 19 in General Discussion

I am player Zanduel USF in this Replay I did go Lieutenant and Stuart Just Because it tends to be a unit I never use and MG gun for support. I usually go AAHT and Captain with Bar.

Anyway This Gameplay went pretty Badly.

Normally I would Fair pretty well with my build order typically being Rif mort Rif Cap+Bar and I use mortar for smoke cover from MG fire as it is "free" smoke after the initial manpower cost which winds up saving me munitions in the long run.
Later I Would follow up With AAHT which does good vs all Light Vehicles as long as I Get the First few Shots in on them.

Really Early on I would typically keep Rear echelon and Rifleman together to deal with Sturmpioneers and I try not to use grenades if I can help it as I typically get bars with weapon Racks only after I have given Captain his Bar as to conserve the manpower and fuel for AAHT possibly second mortar then later into the game I will tend to add grenade tech.

Normally I get M20 over The Stuart When I go Lieutenant as it can easily deal with axis MG guns and infantry as well as a Headache for Vehicles With the Crews Bazooka ( if going two m20's Disembarking next to a cocky puma can net a kill if an opportunity arises) While Later to Be used to Provide Mines and Vision For Jackson Support and some Anti Air ability as well.

Stuart Seems Very Very underwhelming in my opinion compared to my other options especially with proper micro.
The Stuart on the other hand quickly becomes a useless unit doing little damage and if survives only being used to blind target as support and very rarely engine damage which can result in a dead Stuart.

in the early game my other options give me the anti infantry capabilities I need earlier so I don't take to many losses as I slowly get more bars and either allow me to be defensive and slow down infantry (AAHT) or be really Aggressive (M20)

Also I noticed in this replay I did a lot of infantry damage with not so many kills compared to my ally Razorbeard as well as doing the Highest damage overall on our side But somehow I am 2 CP points Behind.

Comments

  • #2
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    This Game Goes Very Well and I Emphasize My M20 Gameplay

  • #3
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    This Match was a very weird build order.
    I went Rear echelon, Grenades Package, Rear Echelon, mortar, mortar, mortar.

    Extremely Intense Match we pulled a win out our buttholes.

  • #4
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549
    edited August 10
    Its super rare to see M20 play. And it requires so much skill to use one consider it come mostly 2min earlier than a 222. So I respect any who uses it.

    I truly think M20 should be unlocked once you go for Platoon (Lieu) tech, in exchange no free Lieu squad, requires 35fuel. Not Mechanize Platoon requires 55fuel.
  • #5
    1 month ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 730
    I also find the Stuart extremely underwhelming.

    Very expensive in fuel for a unit that is really only good against light vehicles.

    Personally I would like it's ai capabilities upgraded. But then I suppose that might revert it to a previous unbalanced state.

    At the very least it could come down 10 fuel.
  • #6
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    Honestly if you put stuart and aaht in the same tech with same cost I would pick aaht every time since even though it cant always win a direct conflict if you get the jump on them you can even kill a puma with just the aaht alone.
    Stuart for the price you would think is a better option since it is a tank and not a halftrack or armored car but the best it does is kill halftracks possibly luches which aaht can kill as well.
    Stuart tanks slightly more damage but does not deal out damage vs infantry (not as much help vs mg guns) or vs armored units like puma either for that matter and without an at gun you are helpless.
    Mg guns are ok but you waste more munitions than anything for AT rather than getting weapons upgrades which you should have already been getting bars to deal with okw powerful early game.

    Then the other thing is when fallschimjager come out what is the best way to deal with them?? Since they seem to rip my infantry apart plus the abilities they come with and panzerfaust.
    Even double bar rifleman struggle, then the 37mm stuka circles around suppressing makeing it that much more difficult to hold or take ground.
  • #7
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    My Gameplay vs Fallschirmjager

  • #8
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    trying to play with Stuart a bit this game goes fairly well although I don't see a ton of at, mostly infantry spam.

  • #9
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited August 14
    I did have a couple games go really bad with stuart I think it amounted to the fact that I had no anti tank guns by the time panzer 4 showed up on the field which was just as I finished building captain (bad timeing) I did have bazookas but it was not enough.

    Stuart built around 7 mins gives me only maybe 3 mins to have it do some work before axis mediums.
    (Not includeing the fact okw can get early reketen and puma also every volks has panzerfaust by this time)

    So yes I beleive coming down perhaps 10 fuel and a little more ai capability might be enough and allow for an earlier at gun.
  • #10
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549
    To me, Lieu tech is so underwhelming than Cap tech, being that Stuart is mostly the only option for AT that also no chance vs Puma. Once Stuart die, you can only rely on Zook.

    Stuart cost down to 60fuel will make Luch 65fuel become so costly. As said, if you say then make Luch cost down to 55fuel. Then AAHT is too costly for Luch, then 222, then clown car..

    There is one way is to raise up medium tank tech, giving more time for Light play. 4min is not enough.
  • #11
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited August 15
    > @C3Tooth said:
    > To me, Lieu tech is so underwhelming than Cap tech, being that Stuart is mostly the only option for AT that also no chance vs Puma. Once Stuart die, you can only rely on Zook.
    >
    > Stuart cost down to 60fuel will make Luch 65fuel become so costly. As said, if you say then make Luch cost down to 55fuel. Then AAHT is too costly for Luch, then 222, then clown car..
    >
    > There is one way is to raise up medium tank tech, giving more time for Light play. 4min is not enough.

    I can agree to this it makes sense how it would effect other vehicles.

    I would still like to see a slight ai buff as it cannot always be fighting halftracks and it is only a matter of time before your dealing with puma, medium tanks, shrecks and at guns so it will need to vet better in the mean time.

    Take all factions and increase medium tank tech cost say 20 fuel idk

    Also a usf tech change could help and ide like to see both ideas implemented together.

    Unlocking either captain or lieutenant should give acess to both the mg and at gun under their respective command post irregardless which you choose and you can then choose which mechanized units you would like to unlock first.

    Right now it cost so much up front in fuel for so little unlocks and not gaurenteed to be able to get what you need with little flexibility.

    Right out the gate wehrmacht 80mp 10 fuel
    Can build 5 units and all grenadiers have acess to panzerfaust as they are made.

    they get panzerfaust which we have to vet up to unlock which in essence is a typ of cost I assume to make up for the fact axis engineers dont have a grenade like re smoke??

    rifleman lost smoke so they should replace that atleast with a tech locked permanent anti tank grenade on all rifleman.

    Actually what sounds better is a cp locked anti tank grenade at cp1 plus either captain or lieutenant, get permanent anti tank grenade on all rifleman and timing wouldn't be to far off with my proposed tech change

    Fixes the vet issue and maintains a typ of cost.
    Like okw king tiger has a cp lock and tech lock.
    0

    Just looking at what it takes to unlock panzer 4 and assuming you would also make infanterie kompanie because why the hell not for 80mp 10f... that's a no brainer grens are your mainline infantry after all.

    520mp 155f with weapons/grenades/ panzerfaust.
    Now able to purchase p4 with access to mg gun, mortar, panzergrenadiers, sniper but no acess to anti tank guns or light armor.

    For usf it cost 440mp 175f

    We can get only 1 captain or lieutenant on the field that only they can get weapons and we have no grenades or anti tank grenades if no vet (Cp1 fix this please so we dont go half the match with no anti tank grenades late game lol)

    We also only get 1 unlock of either mg gun or anti tank gun.
    So we are at a loss in multiple ways no weapons, we lack one or the other support weapon and no grenades.

    Only advantage usf has in this scenario is access to a light vehicle and 1 mainline unit on the field with 1 support unit the major which has less combat ability than a re and both are payed for In fuel for the lack of manpower spent on them so they are not "free" as some people exclaim but it does force us to have extra infantry units rather than something els and also slows down our ability to produce units if we do not want to make to many rifleman considering manpower is easier to obtain and unlock is timed to far back.m

    Now if wehrmacht gets mechanized and usf gets grenade/weapons rack

    Usf then does have weapons and grenades but still lacks 1 support weapon and still missing the other 2 mechanized units but has access to mediums.

    Wehrmacht gets access to light vehicles and now have all support weapons and mediums

    Whermacht 720mp 175f

    Usf. 740mp. 205f





    All upgrades total

    Whermacht 920mp 225f

    Usf. 990mp 260f
    An Extra 70mp and 35f for usf plus 3 units on the field.


    Personally I would:

    Weapon rack. 150mp 15f
    Grenade package 150mp 15f
    Lieutenant 220mp 30f
    Captain 220mp 30f
    One commander unlocks both support weapons not just one

    Mechanized 80mp 15f
    Mechanized 80mp 15f
    Major 190mp 125f

    Usf new cost 1090mp 240f

    Or add in a new upgrade support weapons package that unlocks both support weapons from the main barracks and gives you a choice of commanders that cost their full manpower prices of 280mp

    Racks 150mp 15f
    Grenades 150mp 15f

    Support package 80mp 15f
    Unlocks commanders and both support guns.

    Lieutenant 280mp
    Captain 280mp
    Either commander required befor being able to unlock a mech choice.
    Mech 50mp 30f
    Mech 50mp 30f
    Major 190mp 120f

    Idk something like that anyway to get the overall fuel price down and more choices is the goal with commanders costing their full price and coming out earlier to replace rifleman.
    Probably could use some tweaking.
    Im Tired cant think anymore lol.
  • #12
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    what happens during this match? game goes not half bad then suddenly we are getting rofl stomped.
    I am not sure if I could have done anything els to improve the situation.

  • #13
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    Very interesting game i thought i would share it

  • #14
    1 month ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    this one i tried something a bit different since i was faced with Elephant and panthers.
    m8 scotts smoke the approach and cavalry rifleman throw the satchels.

  • #15
    2 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302

    cant get any closer than that

  • #16
    1 week ago

    what do you do when the enemy has the area locked down Like This?

  • #17
    1 week ago
    I feel like the only way to deal with this is massed artillery.
    Still that would leave you further vulnerable to tanks and shrecks.
    I had 3 Sherman's to deal with shrecks and rangers with zooks to deal with Panthers.
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