What the new balance patch got wrong?

#1
4 weeks ago
vsrvsr Posts: 93
edited August 22 in General Discussion

Personally I dont think this patch needs to be super game changning since after all these years of patching, the game balance is in a pretty good place. If you know what u are doing, u have a decent chance of winning while playing any factions.

Getting to the patch notes:

Overall the changes are not that bad, but the patch has some really awkward ones.

Controversial/Unecessary changes:

  1. Raketenwerfer 43

Range from 50 to 55.
Crew size from 4 to 5.
Camouflage ability now locks the unit in place unless revealed. Cannot move, but can rotate.
Requires veterancy 1 for camouflage.
Retreat function removed.

^ This removes the uniqueness out of the Rk43 and makes it just like another dull AT unit.

  1. Schwerer Panzer Headquarters

Cost from 200MP/120 to 100/80; unlocks Obersoldaten and the doctrinal Hetzer; Obersoldaten upgrades locked behind Panzer Authorization.
Can now be upgraded with ‘Panzer Authorization’ for 100 manpower and 40 fuel. Unlocks Jagdpanzer IV, Panzer IV Ausf. J, and Panzer V Panther as well as the doctrinal Flakpanzer IV Ostwind. Also unlocks Obersoldaten weapon upgrades.
Flak gun disabled until the Panzer Authorization upgrade is purchased.
Panzer Authorization must be repurchased if the Panzer HQ is destroyed and is required for all heavy tank call-ins.

^ OKW's Panzer HQ and its upgrade is pretty pointless since you gotta do the full upgrade to get the upgrades on the Obersoldaten units and the non-upgrade hq will be only useful if the you go with hertzer doctorine. Moreover, panzer hq upgrade requirement for the heavy tank call in is not good since it punishes players too much and if you lose it is pretty much GG.

  1. Kubelwagen

Health from 240 to 192
Received damage modifier of 0.8 added.
This will decrease repair times, without changing the durability of the unit (which is still 192/0.8=240 effective hitpoints).

^ basically, majority of the community wants the kubel to vet up faster since it dies out too early.

  1. Tiger II (KT)

AOE distance from 1/2/3 to 0/1/4
AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.05 to 0.75/0.25/0.125
Scatter angle from 7.5 to 5.
Spearhead to veterancy 1, Combat Blitz to veterancy 3

^ Now if KT makes just one wrong move, it is pretty much fkd if the oppo has even one SU 85/ Jackson/ Firefly.

  1. Churchill Mk.VII

Population from 16 to 18.
Grenade ability moved from veterancy 0 to veterancy 1.

^ At the given cost, churchill is seriously too good at soaking shots, like insane good. Either its health or preferablly its amrour gotta be reduced. OR, increase the cost to like 180 fuel.

  1. Emplacements

All emplacements can now be torn down by Royal Engineers once they no longer serve their initial purpose, to free up population cap for other units. Note that resources will not be refunded.

Deconstruct Emplacement ability added to Royal Engineers
Ability does not refund any resource

^ Come on relic, this just PROMOTES MORE SIM CITY. Brit sim city players should have consequences for going full on emplacements in 3v3/ 4v4 matches.

  1. Maxim

Nearby suppression radius from 13 to 15
Nearby suppression multiplier from 1 to 1.1

^ THis just promotes the return of MAXIS SPAM. tbh, maxism is good atm as a support role unit.

Well you guys agree right?

Comments

  • #2
    4 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    I agree on buffing the Axis more.

    Something like Puma in Tier0 to counter carrier or clown car or ambulance ect

  • #3
    4 weeks ago
    vsrvsr Posts: 93

    @C3Tooth said:
    I agree on buffing the Axis more.

    Something like Puma in Tier0 to counter carrier or clown car or ambulance ect

    I said nothing about buffing the axis.

    Be specific on what u mean.

  • #4
    4 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    1. Do you know why unlike other ATgun, Rak has camo & retreat abilities?
    Camo ability is to give them a tool to get close, ambush vehicle since the gun has no armor & close range. Retreat, of course, to quick retreat after success ambushing such as close range.
    Well Im talking the obvious but remember because Okw had no MGs or Volk stg to defend them.

    2. PzHQ upgrade is pointless
    But its only for Okw side, for the Allies side its better since now its harder for Okw to setup PzHQ on fuel/ammo point in the middle of the map. Force them to actually put it at cut off point which they were supposed to. Again, they had no MGs, PzHQ flak canon is for defend cut off point.

    3. Kubel
    This unit is quite worthless for Okw side, but its a night mare in open map for Allies. Note that in open map a Kubel 210mp can hold a Riflemen 280mp, that a big advantage in early game for Okw. Beside, cant expect a unit great at early game should be good at mid/late. You dont see Clown/UCarrier pass 10min anyway.

    4. King
    2 Jacksons cost more than a King. 2 Puma cost less than a Jackson. Figure it out.

    5. Churchill
    I believe those premium tanks as Panther/Comet/Churchill should be limited to 2. But that will make Ost worse than Okw since Okw can possibly field 2 Pan & a King which Ost can not.

    6. Emplacements
    Okw fortification sim city is bigger. Pak43 pop is equal to a Bofors

    7. Maxim
    Wrong, you dont see MG42 spam because they're so powerful that a player only need 3 of them to defend 1/3 the map. Especially you arm MG42 50m range with Pion 50m sight. Then MGs can spot of itself.

  • #5
    4 weeks ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32

    @vsr said:
    blah blah blah nerf allies buff axis blah blah blah

    this is what a axis fan boy looks like

    every nerf to axis is bad, every buff to allies is bad... see a pattern here... this is why coh2 sucks in large teams game now, because of this type of feedback which shouldn't be taken serious IS being taken seriously

    case in point, nerf to the pak howi in this patch yet the more economical unit lieg is untouched, has almost twice as big as a firing cone.. yet the reason for the pak howi nerfed is because it lacks micro enough, this for a faction that is ALL about micro.. meanwhile every single large game you'll get 3 or 4 leigs sitting near a flak hq and the balance team on that, lack of micro isn't a probem - with the factions own inbuild cover from a hq truck and a more spammable unite that almost covers twice the ground and shreds opposition constantly

    yeah but who cares about 3v3 or 4v4... who cares about the most popular game modes, great job

  • #6
    4 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549
    Did you say Leig is untouched?

    -Incendiary scatter angle from 8 to 7.
    -Incendiary scatter max from 10 to 8.
    -Incendiary reload from 2.3/3.6 to 0.75/1
    -Incendiary shell garrison damage modifier from 0.5 to 0.75; only affects impact damage
    -Flame DOT changed from 1 to 2
  • #7
    4 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited August 23
    > @C3Tooth said:
    > Did you say Leig is untouched?
    >
    > -Incendiary scatter angle from 8 to 7.
    > -Incendiary scatter max from 10 to 8.
    > -Incendiary reload from 2.3/3.6 to 0.75/1
    > -Incendiary shell garrison damage modifier from 0.5 to 0.75; only affects impact damage
    > -Flame DOT changed from 1 to 2
    >

    Not only did leig get buffed further but the mortar now has counter barrage range from 80 to 100.
    So much for encouraging better micro game play

    At the very least counter barrage needs to have a cooldown and a cost for the extended range auto fire against artillery units.
  • #8
    4 weeks ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32
    edited August 23

    it is absolutely ridiculous how the balance team is progressively destroying this game for the most popular game modes... every single patch they make it worse

  • #9
    3 weeks ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 730

    @ankle said:
    it is absolutely ridiculous how the balance team is progressively destroying this game for the most popular game modes... every single patch they make it worse

    This patch is a balance haymaker. 4v4 is going to be completely decimated. I mean. Not that that's not already the case.

  • #10
    3 weeks ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32
    edited August 25

    balance team approach: ostwind unfavoured because piv is an AI beast... so we must buff ostwind, now it does more damage than a centaur, it's lightening quick compared to a centuar and of course cheaper... meanwhile piv is still a beast at AI

    pack howi not enough micro (for US forces lol) nerf... leig spam every team game... cheaper, almost twice the firing cone, faction inbuilt protection with flak truck, map hack IR truck which boosts half the team.. no thats fine, lack of micro not an issue.. in fact lets buff it lol

    utterly ridiculous

    the best bit we hear is - team games are impossible to balance.. so lets just ignore the flow on effects of these changes, who cares its what keeps this game alive

    brain dead

  • #11
    3 weeks ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    The OKW FlakHalfTrack is still in a pretty bad spot.

    It needs some improvements because its performance is bad simply. Needs to be good or on par with USF AA Halftrack.

    Should Rear Echelons be made cheaper, like how SU can acquire Engineers for 170 manpower.

    At least Rak is getting changed too.

  • #12
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    Flak HT come with smoke, only able to shoot stationary, its designed to be a defensive unit. AAHT is one offensive unit.

    Rear can not be cheaper, due to ability to get 2 Bars and still able to upgrade mine sweaper.

  • #13
    3 weeks ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @C3Tooth said:
    Flak HT come with smoke, only able to shoot stationary, its designed to be a defensive unit. AAHT is one offensive unit.

    Rear can not be cheaper, due to ability to get 2 Bars and still able to upgrade mine sweaper.

    Yeah that makes sense with Rear Echelon.

    Though the FHT is used defensively, it is not potent enough. Damage output is just bad in comparison to AA Halftrack.

    Although it is defensive, does not mean it is supposed not kill.

    The only difference really between the 2 really is one being mobile and the stationary.

    I mean, what do you think about the FHT?

    Personally I think it is not good enough and it needs some fixing.

  • #14
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    To me, FHT should be in the same tech as Puma so Puma can protect FHT.

    BattleHQ has InfraredHT, leig & FHT give too low in fire power. While MechaHQ has Puma, Luch, Stuka give too much fire power & fuel consuming.

    FHT backthen has very slow setup time (I remember it was 4sec), but its ability to pin & damage infantry was really great, its almost a mobile Bofors, only ATgun has ability to damage FHT because infantry could not get close. But today they make FHT easier to play (instant setup), in exchange lower in damage and abit of pin. If change, revert back to what they were.

  • #15
    2 weeks ago

    Both the USF Halftrack and OKW Halftrack need a buff considering how vulnerable they can be, they need to see more action and to scale properly.

    OKW FHT is underperforming. It states that it is supposed to be "efficient vs infantry, lights and AA.

    It is definitely good against AA but infantry not so much but terrible against lights.

    That is why it needs a damage buff in order for it to better combat against infantry and lights. Especially when its accuracy is not so good at range among other factors that make it unreliable against infantry.

    It has a hard time Vetting due to the performance. It only vets well when shooting planes but against any other forms, it is unreliable.

    Currently FHT cant deal with infantry properly in mid nor long range. Close range is its main and only opportunity really to get kills.

    Either increase AoE to 2 (to improve just against infantry) or increase damage to 20 (to better combat infantry and lights).

    USF AA Halftrack is great against infantry although it has a hard time doing AA but in a good position it is great. Can simply combat lights better than FHT.

    Its current performance is good and it means that its veterancy gain is good which it is, since acquires faster and more efficiently than the FHT does. Imo.

    Set ups faster that it can pull of shots with main gun faster against lights and does drastically even more damage. Main gun does 40 damage per shot and including the 2 other guns sums it up to a max total of 80 damage per second, this damage is effectively useful against vehicles but infantry it does around 40 damage per burst and lower.

    All in all, it is more efficient.

    Can kill infantry far better close range and even in mid range. Can do so while on mobile and stationary. Does not really matter but it does the job better.

    I think in addition what both Halftracks needs, is an upgradable purchase where they can increase both armour and health which costs 60 ammo. Would be nice for them to be able to scale late game.

    Oh, when you acquire last tech, the upgrade option is free. Just to create more incentive in order to use it even late game.

  • #16
    3 days ago

    I think the fht is pretty okay damage-wise; what would make it perform better is if it dealt suppresion to massed infantry just slightly quicker. Right now against usf, if they approach it with a blob of 3 and up with a vet 1 rifleman and a bazooka, the fht can't stand its ground reliably-- and the whole point of the unit other than aa is to deal supression and force blob retreats.

    My suggestion would be to either buff its dps or its suppression mechanic, one or the other

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