[All] British as faction

#1
2 weeks ago

British are broken!

If you play as axis you are well aware that british are most painful and broken faction in game. Simple mistakes agaist them is equal to losing a game. Thier infantry, vehicles and technology can roll over you with very little punishment if you are justgood enough player.

I think the british need a major changes like OKW is geting in upcoming patches in order to tweek thier balance.

Here are issues that should be messed around with in order to make british faction more competetive and not couse the faction to lsoe its flavors.

Infantry Section - somehow it is the best infantry in game. Grenadiers have no chance with them one on one no matter what. Even if odds are heavly agaist them Infantry section will mop down every infantry. Only most elite infantry can win with them like for example Obersoldaten.
There are many ways they could be nerfed but in order not to change the feel of the unit for everyone i sugest:

-15% of walking speed for infantry sections outside of frindly territory
o This way infantry sections are less dangerous in early game, it is harder to rush ambient buildings
o Geting cought ooutside of cover is more punishable
o It is harder to rush and blob enemy positions

To further reinforce this change i would also make infantry section slightly less accurate on the go

PS - artylery flares cost increased since they are trown as commonly as grenades. Medkit use now cost 15 ammo, same like in Ostheer

Bren Carrier - I am nto sure how this unit does not cost any fuel. Even soviet scout car cost fuel and it is not half as tough. It is amazing power spike and it is annoying as hell, specialy if you are an ostheer player who can't make early AT and is forced to chase it around with panzerfaust, losing his fragile grenadiers. Also your rush for an armoured car is not interputed right now by making Bren, this is so broken.
Lower manpower cost and set a fuel cost. My sugested proportions would be something like 200/15 at least.

Boffors/Magic Car - requierments to unlock these increased so they are harder to rush. Fuel cost to unlock tech could be increased or more requierments made. Like for example at least one infantry upgreat.

Tank rebalance - To keep it short:

  • Churchils of all kind are way too durable. They also posses huge firepower. I tough they should be more like Kv-1 or even weaker since Kv-1 is doctrines exlusive.
  • Comets are broke. Increast cost so they are harder to mass and losing one is more punishable

I think these chances would be interesting for both sides. British player would be encourage to be more tactical about thier units and axis player would have less painful expirnce. Especialy that playing agaist british is mostly pain right now.

Comments

  • #2
    2 weeks ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,621
    edited September 4

    Go read preview patch notes.
    And the fact that you complain about UC and Comet says your problem is somewhere between chair and a keyboard.

  • #3
    2 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    InfantrySec Should be the best core infantry because they dont have any other infantry. (Ost has PzGren, Okw has Ober)

    Bren Carrier: same as Kubel, I dont know why these units dont cost any fuel while Soviet cost 15fuel.

    Mid tech for USF Lieu/Cap are 55fuel. OKW MechanizeHQ cost 60fuel. Mid tech for Brit is 30fuel include Bofors/AEC tech is 65fuel. What else do you want?

    Churchill is just way too much better than KV1. For non-doc tank vs a doc tank.


    Brit design break most of the game balance & purpose. As their MGs in Tier0, force balance team to put Ost MG42 from Tier1 to Tier0, which completly defeat the whole design of the 1st MG42 has to face 2 Conscript back then (1 Conscript while Ost builds Tier1, 1 Conscript while Ost build MG42)

    Brit mid game units go around emplacement, destroy the purpose of the game: mirco units.

    Heavy defensive position such as Brit design & Okw fortification doc should not bring back in Coh3.

  • #4
    2 weeks ago
    MorisMoris Posts: 9

    For the Briton there is nothing more to fight except this. Mortars and grenades are very effective against infantry in shelters. No need to try to shoot Tommy

  • #5
    2 weeks ago
    YappirYappir Posts: 58

    @Moris said:
    For the Briton there is nothing more to fight except this. Mortars and grenades are very effective against infantry in shelters. No need to try to shoot Tommy

    If i have 2 Infantry sections somewhere in my territory i can't just send 2 infanty untis to deal with them. I need a mortar, mg, vehicle, a bit of infantry... and so on and so on.
    Fighting these is a nightmare. Amount of equipment needed to deal with it is crazy.

  • #6
    2 weeks ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,621

    @Yappir said:

    @Moris said:
    For the Briton there is nothing more to fight except this. Mortars and grenades are very effective against infantry in shelters. No need to try to shoot Tommy

    If i have 2 Infantry sections somewhere in my territory i can't just send 2 infanty untis to deal with them. I need a mortar, mg, vehicle, a bit of infantry... and so on and so on.
    Fighting these is a nightmare. Amount of equipment needed to deal with it is crazy.

    If you have 560 menpower on your territory, obviously 480 menpower will be insufficient.
    How is that a problem?
    Its called balance.

  • #7
    2 weeks ago
    YappirYappir Posts: 58

    If i would send 2 panzergrenadeirs would they win? (680 vs 560) nope
    CoH is not reduced to simple math. If it would it would be much less interesting.

  • #8
    2 weeks ago

    @Yappir

    Infantry section?

    • Reducing speed so you can freely capture buildings with the best MG from the game? which actually needs a slight supression and arc nerf.
    • Not only that, it will devaste the mainline British infantry against every other squad, tanks, mortars etc

    Bren Carrier?

    • Did you read the nerf it already got?
    • Kubel needs a fuel cost, don you agree? after the vast amounts of buffs it got, it makes sense don't you agree @Yappir?

    Boffors/Magic Car

    • I peronally proposed a tech needed so you won't rush Panzergrenadiers but here we are

    Patch notes:

    • Werhmact got the most amounts of buffs since the New Commander Patch, compared to any other faction and yet here you are asking for more? @Yappir
  • #9
    2 weeks ago
    YappirYappir Posts: 58
    edited September 4

    I am not talkin about nerfing bren carrier but to make it cost fuel since it have major impact on early game. Even russian scout car cost fuel. Lets be consistent in our rules.
    Kubel doesn't have impact on the game at all it is just caping vehicle, so no. If we make it have major impact on the game, then yes it should cost fuel.
    Infantry section is the strongest basic infantry in the game, it can gun down even most elite infantry. This can't look like this. If it is ment to be as strong as it is (and i prose it does) it has to be cripled in other parts of the game so british can't just bash every other unit to death with it.
    I seen british infantry charge mgs in buildings and they just smash it.
    every mg has in its discription that it is ment to cut down infantry. Something is clearly wrong here.

  • #10
    2 weeks ago

    @Yappir I wonder if you know how much time players requested for an improvement for the Maxim mg, and it is still nowere near in performance to the best mg in the game, the MG42.

    The carrier also got a nerf to it's armor and ammo cost for repairs, so it has being tonned down a lot.
    However Grenadiers ATrange hasn't been nerfed, nor the Pschrecks deleting enemy tanks equipped on Panzergrenadiers.

    Indeed several changes should be addressed. But nerfing the mainline infantry of a highly dependant faction is weird for you to ask, since you can recruit from T0 the best MG from the game #DamnSon

  • #11
    2 weeks ago
    YappirYappir Posts: 58
    edited September 4

    I am not saying whole game is tip top balanced both axis and allied feathures could use a tweeks but...
    Mg42 is far away from being best mg in the game. Vickers can cut it down no problem.
    Maxim role is to pin down enemy infantry not to kill it (same as mg34) and it even has ability that helps it with it.
    Panzershreks delete enemy tanks becouse this is thier role. The cost to performence is reasonable, especially that the unt carrying Shreks is somewhat fragile..

    British mainline infantry has to be nerfed becouse it overperfomrs. British depends on it becouse it is overpefroming. People don't have to be creative with units becouse they can just bash enemy to death with a filthy blob of ifantry.

    You can LEGIT send 3 infantry sections (with lmgs to be fair) on Mg42 and they will kill it in a matter of seconds.
    This unit breaks the game rules. On every buletine and tool tip game reminds you that machineguns are counter to infantry.
    Inafantry section does not obey this rule.
    This is how broken it is. It is so broken that game has problem obeying rules it sets by itself.
    If that is not good enough argument I can't help you further.

  • #12
    2 weeks ago
    Hopefully the new infantry section changes will help with that. I always found them obtuse.

    But like Tooth said, the difficultly is that brits don't have a non doc elite option.
  • #13
    2 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    British mainline infantry has to be nerfed becouse it overperfomrs. British depends on it becouse it is overpefroming. People don't have to be creative with units becouse they can just bash enemy to death with a filthy blob of ifantry.

    Brit doesnt depends on Infantry Section because its over performing. Brit depends on IS because its the only infantry they have. Do you expect Brit to use Sapper to fight your Obersodaten that beat up Riflemen holding 130ammo a Bar & a M1919?
    Just throw in Commandos in non-doc for Brit to fight your Ober, then IS can be toned down in line with Volk.


    Someone said Maxim gets pin buff will cause Soviet players to spam more.
    Maxim does more damage than MG42. But Maxim's pin is too low, they need more Maxim to able to pin Axis infantry. You never see MG42 spam because they actually do their job, which is Pin infantry.
    Just answer this question: 2 abandoned Maxim & MG42 lay next to each other, you have a 4 men squad to pick them up. You gonna pick Maxim or MG42?
    You answer prove which one is better.


    I never call in more than 2 Paratrooper or 2 Rangers because they ARE effective. But with Riflemen? Im gonna go 4 squads with 8 Bars.

  • #14
    2 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 302
    edited September 6
    @Yappir

    As a usf player I prey to have at least 1 brit on my side.

    Trying to plow through mg guns with rifleman and mortar just dont cut it.
    Universal carrier with flame throwers saves the day and I help repair that baby.

    Otherwise ide just get picked apart by okw infantry being suported by whermacht mg guns and cheap kubelwagens also with no fuel cost minde you that is fairly quick to repair soon to be repaired even faster.

    Soon I won't even be able to support my infantry with mortar smoke barrage once counter barrage range is increased to 100.

    Not that smoke does much to 3 mgs covering each other and repositioning with sturmpioneer hiding in the smoke waiting for it to clear and pounce.

    As far as the british player rushing your machine gun with brens I am guessing it was a solo machine gun the british spread out his infantry and had what is a long rang lmg the bren possibly x2 and caused your machine gun go into what is called a death loop which is gona happen if it has no other squads nearby to support it.

    As far as shreck cost.... it cost the same as bazookas.
    Only exception being sturmpioneer which is 1 for 70 and they can move through rough terrain unhindered like general mud.

    Bazookas dont have nearly the same destructive power though they are essentially same weapon.

    Honestly shreck needs to be brought down in line with the bazooka.
  • #15
    2 weeks ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 823

    Not that it matters, but a shrek and a bazooka are hardly the same weapon, as the shrek is a massive 88 mm calibre rocket as opposed to the american 60 mm. This is why the shrek does more damage. It better do more damage, it penned a lot more armor in real life. You pay more, you get a better weapon.

    Tommies do over perform quite a bit, as do many brit units. This is widely known and some of the issues were looked at in the upcoming patch.

  • #16
    1 week ago
    So tommies overperform before or after their added man? With or without brens?

    As far as shreck being more powerful for more cost then fine increase the cost because right now they only cost 50 per shreck.
  • #17
    1 week ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    If we see Tommy as a 4 men squad that cost 280mp, they're reasonable strong for their cost. But in later game having them 5 men holding 2 Brens is another story for 280mp. Since the other squads with abilities to add another men, they requires ammo and another 20-30 manpower to recruit the man (which Gren 5 men cost 60ammo and 270manpower, Cons cost 60ammo and 257manpower)

    For their cost, they should have the choice between upgrade 5men or 2 Bren, not both. Or they should have their build as 4men and requires another 35manpower to get the 5th men. As in a Tommy 5men will always requires 315 manpower.

    Beside, if you bring either Tommy, RM, Volk, you will see their 7 popcap is too low for Gren & Cons.

  • #18
    1 week ago
    YappirYappir Posts: 58

    I took a closer look at maxims and i have to admit that they are not performing well. SO i have to admit that, maxims are not as good as i felt they are.
    Anyway back to the point.
    An example sicuation that shows that british infantry is an issue.
    Reails and metal.

    From the south OKW player, from the north Biritsh.
    OKW player will be first in the house that is a key to controling area. British will take green cover behinde the truck.
    No matter do you have volks in that house or pio. They will lose that engagmnet. If OKW gives up the house they will lose the control of the fuel and eventualy lose the game.
    As OKW you do not get mortars or mgs in early game.
    OKW are forced to activly fend off british off the house in a sicuation where every of thier infantry units can't win alone. Each grenade trow will be ammo spend just to buy time. British player, all he has to do is dump infantry in reasonable cover and enjoy.
    OKW player will build something eventualy, either hospital or mechanics. OKW player has to quickly make mg 34, leig or anything to help him force out british infantry from his fuel. If you buy any of thouse however you will lose. Becouse british can just skip any purcheses and rush an armoured car. OKW player has problem with infantry but can't even buy anything to counter it as he needs to buy a raketen that will still struggle to take down this armoured car. Luchs, AA truck, anything is not viable option becosue of looming armour. Car is a counter to everything axis can try to use and instatly forces them to go Anti tank. Not mentioning british can go instatly landlease doctrine and even get a mortar what will be a pure nightmare for axis player.
    This sicuation is preposterous it is so one sided.

    I don't buy an argument that this is thier only infantry so it has to be broken as hell. In COH 1 Panzer-elite also had only one infantry, panzergrenadiers. They were not even close to being as unbalanced as current infantry section is. Examples of factions working around single infantry type are numberous in many RTS games.
    Fact that it is thier only infantry option is an excuse.

  • #19
    1 week ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    I took a closer look at maxims and i have to admit that they are not performing well. SO i have to admit that, maxims are not as good as i felt they are.

    Maxim was supposed to be instant setup and instant pin but had only 60 degree cone. It was really hard for newbie to use but dangerous by experience players. I was glad they change the cone to 90 back then. But today I wish they could change Maxim back to what it was. Because Maxim is inferior in both cone & pin.

    OKW player has problem with infantry but can't even buy anything to counter it as he needs to buy a raketen that will still struggle to take down this armoured car. Luchs, AA truck, anything is not viable option becosue of looming armour.

    Erm..how can Sturm, Volk stg44 & MG34 has problem with infantry?
    Luchs & AAHT will be dominated by AEC, however you didnt mention Puma that easily to take down T34-76 due to its self spot & long range.
    vs Brit, I suggest to use Puma since its more powerful than AEC & had longer range than Bofors, its pretty much deny both mid tech from Brit.

    Now let tell the case is Okw at south, vs USF at north.
    Just put Volk in the building, having Sturm charge at Riflemen at the truck. There is no way for USF that have 1 Rear, 2 RM to win over 1 Sturm, 2 Volk (which requires less manpower). And then Okw put an MG34 in the building later. Its likely a lock down if Okw also have a Rak and a Volk stg to defend the fuel.

  • #20
    1 week ago

    @Yappir nor is the British infantry op, nor shall they be nerfed to "unplayable". I can understand how you are used to abuse OKW early rush with Sturms and 2 other squads rushing in at the same time... No other faction has such a strong early game, luckly it is going to stop.
    However the Werhmacht can do exactly the same if they choose the boosted doctrine.

    Some weak -but better than nothing- balance changes are being applied. Hopefully they don't keep buffing Axis squad or tanks performance while nerfing Allied vehicles or support weapons mainly as they have been doing on the last patches.

  • #21
    1 week ago

    I totally disagree this stuff.

    It is nonsence,

    Infantry Section

    Infantry can't be substituted, like other say, British has not any elit unit (only option is commando but its only using special situation, they can't be Basic unit)
    and they can't use anti-tank grenade, Its kind of critical.

    but look at Okw or Werhmacht
    they can choose Obersoldaten, Light Jager infantry, or panzergrenadier.
    Infantry section is not ensured against them if they already got some upgrade (like 5 man, or bren)
    still can say Infantry section is overperfomrs? , OKW has light jager infantry, also fallshrmjagers
    or Werhmacht has rush commander in first 0~10min, they got some choice unlike UKF

    Bren Carrier

    since bren Carrier nerf, they can't effect against any kind of someting if hasn't upgraded bren
    its had several time nerf. compared to first

    after recently patch, UKW has tough time because early time(within 0~ 15 or 25 min) has been shrink keep on. OKW or Werhmacht can easy to upgrade tech compared to past

    UKW is traditionally strong in early time they designed at first.
    so they has awful tank performance, it is why

    On the contrary, UKW need berf, or more choseable commander.

  • #22
    1 week ago
    MorisMoris Posts: 9

    All that was required for the Tommy nerf was to reduce accuracy on the go. This solved the blob problem. What we have after the patch is terrible.

  • #23
    1 week ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 549

    The only way we can get rid blob playing is: when a squad is 5 meters close to another squad, they get debuff like -5% of everything (easier to pin, easier to get hit, lower accuracy, slower to gain vet, slow ability cool down ect). I dont know if its possible to coding them.

  • #24
    1 week ago
    that would be crappy if your only heavy cover was right next to each other and your opponent has a better side of the map in that regard. (Map design and close quarters gameplay.)
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