(USF) Issues

#1
2 months ago

Hello everyone, im a big fan of the COH(1,2) and Dow 2 (similar games) they are something else to be honest but id like to point some things out from my experience...i meanly play USF but 2 months ago i decided to play 20 matches with each faction and see how things worked out, lets say i had a balance issue that i did whant to expose
-Brits : i had some problems with the brits but it was ok in the end

-Soviets : izi games solid faction in my opinion

-Werh : decent ,spam spam spam untill you get the big boyz then you roll over xD

-OKW: not the most hard faction to play...if you gain vet on your troops and keep em alive you win im most scenarious

PS: If the a unit like Fallschirmjäger whould not be on axis and will be on Allies omg people would Rrrrrageee like hell..but if its at axis...welll its fine....they not have granades that can wipe 2 squads...or tanks that you dont need to micro that well,or even 5 stars vets

-USF: ohhh boy now its getting interesting,i found this to be amusing i lost most of the games with USF dunno why and its my favorite faction its wierd i mean lets explain

-RE: OK infantry good for what they do not the best not the worst i find em ok

-Rifleman - Again good infantry unit cant ask more from a first unit the only problem with em its that they are the only one in USF that can do something in early game thats why YOU have to spam em and one of the reasons USF is kinda boring...you cant go anything else...the Axis is spaming Mg and you need 3-4 atleast and the blob USF meta is born...
The only commander that can refresh american start its the Pathfinders ( becouse you add one path squad with the riflemans,but in the end normal pathfinders are just a lil more powerfull rifleman they do the same ) and the assaultEnginners that i rarely or never see them becouse they are locked behind a rarely use doctrine

-Mortal Team : -Basic mortal team cant ask much i think its the weakest of all but i might be wrong ( its weakest then the russian one becouse it has 6 people and can survive much more on the field thats for sure ) decent troop all around its USF only tool to get past a MG spam in early becouse of its smoke

-Ambulance : - Solid unit and the best part you can get the medics out and leave em at the base

  • Pathfinders : Normal Rifleman only with higher damage in early game and can put the Beacon ( dunno why they cant reinforce from it they are still airborne) but if you are not carefull with em they bleed and they bleed you hard...
  • I&R Pathfinders : same as above but they have better utility

Tier 1 : - USF needs a Sniper unit...i understand pathfinders will take that role but its a role they cant furfill they are not snipers...they are Riflemans changed a little, adding a sniper unit will greatly help agains MG spam and it will change the USF tier 1 for sure...no more Rifle Spam becouse thats the only thing they can do...i understand you can counter MG with mortal but its based on RNG...it may hit it may not hit and you loose time...and the smoke is a hit or miss...depends they can have another MG backing up or the entire army and it can give the MG time to reposition

-Sniper Ability : - Smoke Greanade Or TrueSight (While in cover the Sniper unit will have slighter vision range) or Tracking Shoot (A bullet that do little to no damage to a target but will give vision to the player on that unit for a period of time )

Tier 1 ( Liutenent ) - First lets speak about the tech itself...i see everywhere people cry about USF getting free units when they tech...its not free first you have to pay for him then you have to pay for the unlock if you need something from that tier and second he is nothing special...its a Rifleman squad and to be honest i dont need a extra rifleman on that stage of the game...i already have 3-4 rifle why add another one..if i go 2x rifle to get the 3x with this guy il loose map control if i go 3x and get this guy...they will bleed my manpower like creazy in the long run..its a tech that shoot you in the leg in most scenarios...i think the Liutenent,captain needs a major rework ... the major its fine he brings something new but the other 2 guys...are lame rifleman squads ( with some irelevant abilitys that almost no one uses like the captain one )...

-.50 Call MG - lets be serios this guy is a joke....he comes wayyyyy to late to do something, and its not something special about him i find him boring and sad

  • Armored car - Meh decent...worth for 2-3 minutes when it cames out now with every Axis basic unit AT potential its kinda low but i usually try to keep it alive and gain vet untill i get a Jackson out and switch crews

-M15A1 AA half-track : - a unit that needs way more micro then anything on axis side xD but good enough

Tier 2 ( Captain ) : - Same as a liutenent .... a Rifleman squad and one ability that is almost never used becouse he is not a stationary unit he is out fighting and a decent ability "On Me" all and all a Rifleman

-AT gun...Another joke well the weapon itself is good but becouse of the Axis tanks that have tons of armors and have CRAZY accuracy on infantry it usually dont do its job

  • M1 75mm pack howitzer : this is a dream unit i think its one of the best USF units in the game its just a good Artillery piece. ( Respect)

-M5A1 stuart : Another good USF unit not for his raw power but for his utility, this lil sucker won me some crazy matches becouse he damaged the panther or the panzer engine very nice unit again

Tier 3 Major - This is an impovement from the other "Free" stuff that USF gets he is not a Rifleman he cant fight like the Captain or Liutenent but he has some nice utility Skills +1 Like the Major

  • Sherman : boy oh boy good ol sherman to bad in COH 2 Sherman is not so good he can kill infantry with his HE rounds and...can be a meat shield for the axis tanks literally thats all you run with a sherman and try to distract and attack from rear while your jackson is doing damage its a stuard with 2 months at the gym ... when i build a sherman i do it for 2 reasons...i pay 110 fuel for A distraction AND a smoke grenade...lets not say about ap/he rounds you need to switch with a 6 sec cd to be able to touch infantry while the axis tanks destroy infantry left and right no problem no ammo switching nothing just BOOM you had 5 vet 3 rangers? now you have 2...Press retreat on Rangers they are retreating? BOOM "Reports indicates that one of our infrantry had been wiped out"

-Jackson : Good range good Damage, has the same problem as the AT gun becouse of the High armor of the Axis tanks 4/6 attacks bounce...and he has been nerfed to the ground...still no better alternative so it will suffice

-Motor C - Not bad i kinda like it its guffy and funny and it will do the job

Now lets talk about the Call in Units And commanders :smile:

-Assault En : - nice unit but its locked behind one commander and thats bad for the USF and OKW not enough commanders and no variation...if you whant to have assault eng you need to go Armored division even if you dont like that commander

  • Paratroopers : - good unit , the only thing il change to them its make Airborne a 5 man squad so they cant bleed like hell and the Thompson Ability "tactical assult" remove the movement penality...they get a damage bonus but are slowed and take more damage + it costs munition and to make things worst if you activate "Tactical Assault" and you are force to retreat the slow will remain even on retreat .
    And they should come like the Fallschirmjäger with 2 thompsons give em 2 more thompsons if you upgrade to SMG package or if you upgrade to LMG remove the thompsons and recieve LMG

The LMG upgrade its great maybe to great to be honest

-Rangers : "rangers lead the way" not here boys, they lead nothing its like a basic rifleman unit without the snare ability on vet 1 but they do a little more damage (rifleman 8,Rangers 10) with thompsons are like Paratroopers with no abilitis except grenade,the only difference its that they dont bleed as much becouse 5 man squad and they are harder to hit by 10% i think but thats all
They even look basic...they are Rifleman with a backpack on and the veteran level are copy paste from Paratroopers.

Rangers needs some active skills like : Sprint or Smoke to help em get closer and do there job
As well as variation in the description it say "High trained Marksman" so i though to well give them to pick from Assault Package (Thomsons+Sprint or smoke) OR Markmanship package (M1903 Springfield or M1 Garant ) for Medium/long range distance fighting that will make em adaptable you have the Vanilla that are good medium range, thomson that is good close range and M1903 Springfield that is good medium long range

-Pershing : The only Heavy tank that is unlock behind a Commander what can i say great job ( and i think its equivalent to a Tiger i can be wrong here dont know for sure )

  • m10 wolverine : Another joke of the USF to be honest this tank should not be locked behind a doctrine,when you get this "Badboy" the Axis already has a Panzer or the panzer its at the gates waiting to come on the battlefield and the Wolverine its just bad not worth its cheap but as i say cant do much his purpose is to destroy light tanks and vehicle yes but it come out to late for that and dont start with the Crushing potential of the Wolverine xD we all know thats not possible when the enemy have these days almost all basic units has zooks or shrecks he will die before taking out a single men

  • M8 Greyhound : decent but nerfed to oblivion

-M4A3E8 "Easy Eight" Sherman : good tank i like it

-105mm Sherman Bulldozer : Brummbar wanna be but still it does his job don't gonna complain ;D

-Chatillope : good piece or artilery but cant shoot its main gun and that's a drawback you shoot and then 2 minute its a dummy tank and can be easly flanked and destroy by a fast tank on a raid in base

-Priest : - "Noice"

USF Base : Path problems...your troops will get stuck in the base or will go around and wast a lot of time trying to equip a weapon from the rack usually its done with the BAR and the LMG ...the zooka its oky becouse its in the middle

-Cavalry Rifleman : Whyyyyy?....why not make a new unit instad of RIFLEMAN AGAIN!!!!

Conclusion : - I don't want to say that Axis its OP or broken or something like that or Soviets or brits ...i just say USF has very many flows and it feels like a Rushed out race just to be there...

I want to hear you opinions what will you change and what not :)

«1

Comments

  • #2
    2 months ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    -Werh : decent ,spam spam spam untill you get the big boyz then you roll over xD

    Well, not really, and doesn't make me want to read the rest

  • #3
    2 months ago
    ClearCutClearCut Posts: 39

    The big problem for USF is to kill tanks...
    Bazookas are almost useless and Jackson are too expensive for their performance... They can't dive and kill a tank.---
    Leaves AT gun. Well big problem areal attacks.
    USF needs a lot of infantry and they ll giet wiped in the late.... No comeback .....

    Just a hint: Cpt and Ltd with vet2 are pretty nice. Use them to quick capture in late game....

  • #4
    2 months ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23
    edited March 23

    @Darkpiatre said:

    -Werh : decent ,spam spam spam untill you get the big boyz then you roll over xD

    Well, not really, and doesn't make me want to read the rest

    but they are spammy...i have nothing agains Axis forces but trust me i see more 3x MG openings and late game 4-5 of the same tanks :D(especially in team games in 1v1 they are oky) same with OKW they almost every game you will see atleast 3 Obersoldaten or 3-4 panzerfuseliers dont try do deny it + the 5 vet its just a bad mechanic

    @ClearCut said:
    The big problem for USF is to kill tanks...
    Bazookas are almost useless and Jackson are too expensive for their performance... They can't dive and kill a tank.---
    Leaves AT gun. Well big problem areal attacks.
    USF needs a lot of infantry and they ll giet wiped in the late.... No comeback .....

    Just a hint: Cpt and Ltd with vet2 are pretty nice. Use them to quick capture in late game....

    • God yes xD Axis always roll over with tanks push and you cant do sh!t , AT guns are destroyed by artilery and bounce like crazy when they shoot, Shermans do nothing you need 3 of them to MAYBE do something ( vet 1 if not they are useless) , and jackson is to expensive and if they are not vet 3 they get demolished ( i had today a game had a jackson vet 3 he had to KILL 9 TANKS to get vet 3 jesus its almost impossible to get that dude vet 3 only if the opposite players are throwing tanks and playing sloppy) lets not say the jackson CANT hit infantry at all i know he is a tank destroyer but he cant vet from killing a model or two here and there like the other tanks

    -Imagine this scenario, its late late game over 40 min march enemy has 3 basic infantry,2 medium tanks and 1 elephant you simply cant push as USF elephant will 2 shoot your jackson and you cant engage with the jackson cuz of the range the elephant has ,your rifleman will put a fight vs the enemy grenadiers and maybe win in a fair fight but the axis medium tanks that are Notorious at making allies infantry bleed will eat em alive what can you do? Elephant is keeping your tanks at a very long range your infantry cant do much becouse enemy has infantry as well and axis tanks has better AI then allies tanks , use artilery? lel will i can use a Scott but its slow same with the howitzer its a very potent unit but again its slow,you have to go around and or try to flank but some maps dont give you that option

    i see a ton of people come and say ah its easy just get 4 shermans and run around and shoot its izi , yes i know thats shermans mechanic to be an agile tank that can kite the axis more powerfull tanks but that works on paper when you have path problems in the game agile tanks gets cripled and its sad...lets not say about panzershrecks when every tank its with a shreck squad that can damage and snare your Sherman and its pretty much over and to be honest i dont find shermans that cheap 110 fuel its pretty much for what they can do, and the price tag its lazy balance my opinion no matter how expensive a unit its you will get it and once its out if its to strong will snowball the battlefield lets say the Sherman costs 180 fuel and 500 mp but its like a tiger...and axis tanks has sherman stats...oky in late game(becouse 3/4 games will go in late game) if i get 2 OP shermans out and i will get it and enemy has 4 much lowers stats tanks and i storm in kill 1 then get out and repair my tanks i instantly win 110 fuel and 380 mp ( or whats the cost of that weaker tanks) DO not balance around price...if a tank has 100 mp more cost and 40 fuel more and can do 3x more things than the cheaper one then its unbalanced

    Again on paper its something in the game its something else

    EDIT: I never think that the axis are in and OK spot didn't made this post to cry about Axis op and things like that, the only problem with axis are the Ober's are to powerful in my opinion but thats becouse of the LMG and its a LMG stuff in general how i did write in the original post about the Paratroopers i thing the LMG are a little to powerful now, the post was about USF that are kinda on a dull side right now and look like they are rushed out , even on high skill games like pro player...check some replays 9/10 will loose as USF

  • #5
    2 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 92

    Tier 1 : - USF needs a Sniper unit...i understand pathfinders will take that role but its a role they cant furfill they are not snipers...they are Riflemans changed a little, adding a sniper unit will greatly help agains MG spam and it will change the USF tier 1 for sure...no more Rifle Spam becouse thats the only thing they can do...i understand you can counter MG with mortal but its based on RNG...it may hit it may not hit and you loose time...and the smoke is a hit or miss...depends they can have another MG backing up or the entire army and it can give the MG time to reposition

    I agree, I think every faction should have a sniper because looks a bit unfair how 2 allies have snipers and 1 axis only (I mean Relic did it for a reason but I don't see why)

    • Sherman : boy oh boy good ol sherman to bad in COH 2 Sherman is not so good he can kill infantry with his HE rounds and...can be a meat shield for the axis tanks literally thats all you run with a sherman and try to distract and attack from rear while your jackson is doing damage its a stuard with 2 months at the gym ... when i build a sherman i do it for 2 reasons...i pay 110 fuel for A distraction AND a smoke grenade...lets not say about ap/he rounds you need to switch with a 6 sec cd to be able to touch infantry while the axis tanks destroy infantry left and right no problem no ammo switching nothing just BOOM you had 5 vet 3 rangers? now you have 2...Press retreat on Rangers they are retreating? BOOM "Reports indicates that one of our infrantry had been wiped out"

    Yeah standard Sherman is kinda meh, it has issues dealing with a P4 at times so I would never 1v1 a tank with standard Sherman, it needs to be supported either by AT Infantry or ATG to defeat a P4 more effectively, but against a Panther is terrible tbh not to mention a Tiger.

    -Jackson : Good range good Damage, has the same problem as the AT gun becouse of the High armor of the Axis tanks 4/6 attacks bounce...and he has been nerfed to the ground...still no better alternative so it will suffice

    I think Jackson doesn't bounce as often as you say, it pens Panther most of the time and also Tigers, but it has issues against higher armor like KT or JadgT (like you need to use HVAP to pen a KT from safe distance)
    I really like m36 Jackson because it pens reliably and the HVAP is great to guarantee pen at max range and deliver a killing blow when a tank is retreating but it's lack of AI and the nerf on armor it's getting next patch looks like it's going to suck a lot </3

    I have seen 2 Jacksons in matches which seem to be quite effective but also takes more micro since they're fragile
    But I have never seen more than 1 Jagdpanzer or StugIII (because axis don't need that much against ally tanks)

    Maybe they can raise the pop cap so people won't be likely getting more than 1 but buff it's stats to not need more than 1

    Rangers needs some active skills like : Sprint or Smoke to help em get closer and do there job
    As well as variation in the description it say "High trained Marksman" so i though to well give them to pick from Assault Package (Thomsons+Sprint or smoke) OR Markmanship package (M1903 Springfield or M1 Garant ) for Medium/long range distance fighting that will make em adaptable you have the Vanilla that are good medium range, thomson that is good close range and M1903 Springfield that is good medium long range

    I think rangers do need a different ability to help them close the gap, they're very good close range but for example Shock Troops have 2 grenades and rangers don't have smoke or armor to tank more shots while closing in

    • m10 wolverine : Another joke of the USF to be honest this tank should not be locked behind a doctrine,when you get this "Badboy" the Axis already has a Panzer or the panzer its at the gates waiting to come on the battlefield and the Wolverine its just bad not worth its cheap but as i say cant do much his purpose is to destroy light tanks and vehicle yes but it come out to late for that and dont start with the Crushing potential of the Wolverine xD we all know thats not possible when the enemy have these days almost all basic units has zooks or shrecks he will die before taking out a single men

    I'd like to like this unit too, it's still good against P4 but that's it. It's very weak and comes too late to get to vet before a Panther or Tiger comes in.

    -Chatillope : good piece or artilery but cant shoot its main gun and that's a drawback you shoot and then 2 minute its a dummy tank and can be easly flanked and destroy by a fast tank on a raid in base

    I wish this tank would shoot, I don't know why it can't shoot if it has a cannon, they should have picked another Rocket Artillery unit for that... or should have made it an attachment for shermans like they already do with dozers

  • #6
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited March 24

    Jack & Panther have equal pen: 260 at close range, 240 mid, 220 far.

    While Jack has 110armor & Panther has 260armor, King has 375armor, which mean:

    • Jack pen Pan 100% at close, 92% at mid, 84% at far
    • Jack pen King 70% at close, 64% at mid, 59% at far
    • Pan & King pen Jack 100% at all range

    Jack with AP ability gain pen to 300/280/260

  • #7
    2 months ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    @GrayGabi well why does the Soviet/UKF/USF does start with the same opening every time, which 2 maxim or mass conscript or mass strafiki, mass tommies + eventually 1 mg, mass rifleman? So complaining about spam at the start of a game is quite ridiculous

    And will not re-edit what I already said in my post but I will simply ask one question, if the USF is so weak, why does it have one the best winrate if it is not the best in every type of game?

  • #8
    2 months ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23
    edited March 24

    @Darkpiatre said:
    @GrayGabi well why does the Soviet/UKF/USF does start with the same opening every time, which 2 maxim or mass conscript or mass strafiki, mass tommies + eventually 1 mg, mass rifleman? So complaining about spam at the start of a game is quite ridiculous

    And will not re-edit what I already said in my post but I will simply ask one question, if the USF is so weak, why does it have one the best winrate if it is not the best in every type of game?

    well its simple

    USF starts with mass rifleman becouse if you had read my first post will understand, they start with mass rifleman becouse they have no other choice what to start with? Rear Echalon? and get eated alive by sturmpioners? or MG, 2 mortals? so the enemy can push you and do nothing with it? an ambulance get the medics our and put em to fight? thats why i say USF has NOTHING decent except riflemans thats why they go only riflemans even the liutenent and the Captain ar riflemans....nothing more same with the pathfinders are riflemans with a beacon and higher damage if used well if not they die fast

    Soviets : i see a lot of soviets starting with and without Maxim ( Maxims are kinda sad agains to high number of people that this thing have ) of yea the maxim thing its debatable and i dont have the knowlage to balance the maxim so il stay away from it

    UKF : same here they usually go for Carrier + 2 infantry and inginers , or MG + infantry + royal depends on the map ( but i never seen someone as UKF or USF make more then 1 mg if they have 2,3 its becouse they wipe axis mg and stole em,i personally dont buy mg and at the end of the games i usually have 3 mg-s becouse i stole em xD )

    i personally prefear 1 echalon +2 rifleman + fast captain or liutenent (depends on the game ) if they spam infantry 3-4 volks or grenadiers il get the MG and the Stuard or armored car for the Mine and control early mid game if not il get the AT to prepear for the tank rush

    @Darkpiatre pls play 30-40 matches as USF and play serious as good as you can, then come here and say that they are OP, they are hard...you have to sacrifice in most cases Rifleman AI for zookas becouse the tanks can't hold agains a panzer/tiger attack and the shermans and jacksons path is horrible they will bounce back and forward they will do silly stuff that will get em killed they will tend to go melee range not stay at max range if you order an manual attack on a infantry or an vehicle, on the axis side the panzer and tiger have GODLIKE path's i never lost a axis tank becouse he is retarded and bounce back and forward and his turret its not rotating

    EDIT: - Today i had a game i was attacked by a tiger and my jackson didn't want to turn his turret to face the tiger and he didnt shoot i had "prioritize vehicle" on it was the only vehicle on that area...to make him turn the turret and attack i had to STOP HIM then he SLOWLY turned the turret and attacked

    -Why allies has more winrate? well they are more skill based races...axis player tend to DESTROY 2-3 noobs then they get overconfident and as we all know.... "Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" they will go vs good allies player that will think and dont do the same mistakes over and over again and they will roll over with heavy tanks and gets anihilated,
    PS: Last time i checked USF had the worst winrate of all

  • #9
    2 months ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    -Why allies has more winrate? well they are more skill based races...axis player tend to DESTROY 2-3 noobs then they get overconfident and as we all know.... "Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" they will go vs good allies player that will think and dont do the same mistakes over and over again and they will roll over with heavy tanks and gets anihilated,

    Well, I personaly don't think that there is more skill base faction than others, but think what you want

  • #10
    2 months ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23
    edited March 27

    (removed)

  • #11
    2 months ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23

    @Fax said:

    Tier 1 : - USF needs a Sniper unit...i understand pathfinders will take that role but its a role they cant furfill they are not snipers...they are Riflemans changed a little, adding a sniper unit will greatly help agains MG spam and it will change the USF tier 1 for sure...no more Rifle Spam becouse thats the only thing they can do...i understand you can counter MG with mortal but its based on RNG...it may hit it may not hit and you loose time...and the smoke is a hit or miss...depends they can have another MG backing up or the entire army and it can give the MG time to reposition

    I agree, I think every faction should have a sniper because looks a bit unfair how 2 allies have snipers and 1 axis only (I mean Relic did it for a reason but I don't see why)

    • its a MUST in my opinion and its a High risk High reward unit .... the only reason they have not and probably will not imprement its becouse it will help USF vs MG42 in early game and kids will come screaming on the internet becouse why not let Axis have both fuel points under mg cover for 5 min untill you can get a mortal and counter em

      • Sherman : boy oh boy good ol sherman to bad in COH 2 Sherman is not so good he can kill infantry with his HE rounds and...can be a meat shield for the axis tanks literally thats all you run with a sherman and try to distract and attack from rear while your jackson is doing damage its a stuard with 2 months at the gym ... when i build a sherman i do it for 2 reasons...i pay 110 fuel for A distraction AND a smoke grenade...lets not say about ap/he rounds you need to switch with a 6 sec cd to be able to touch infantry while the axis tanks destroy infantry left and right no problem no ammo switching nothing just BOOM you had 5 vet 3 rangers? now you have 2...Press retreat on Rangers they are retreating? BOOM "Reports indicates that one of our infrantry had been wiped out"

      Yeah standard Sherman is kinda meh, it has issues dealing with a P4 at times so I would never 1v1 a tank with standard Sherman, it needs to be supported either by AT Infantry or ATG to defeat a P4 more effectively, but against a Panther is terrible tbh not to mention a Tiger.

      +1 but his path is horrible ... the bounce and jesus it must be a agile tank,but the path problem of USF tanks its killing his role

      -Jackson : Good range good Damage, has the same problem as the AT gun becouse of the High armor of the Axis tanks 4/6 attacks bounce...and he has been nerfed to the ground...still no better alternative so it will suffice

      I think Jackson doesn't bounce as often as you say, it pens Panther most of the time and also Tigers, but it has issues against higher armor like KT or JadgT (like you need to use HVAP to pen a KT from safe distance)
      I really like m36 Jackson because it pens reliably and the HVAP is great to guarantee pen at max range and deliver a killing blow when a tank is retreating but it's lack of AI and the nerf on armor it's getting next patch looks like it's going to suck a lot </3

    • same with the sherman above the path is annoying and when they attack they tend to not stay at maximum range but go in melee (same with the sherman)

      I have seen 2 Jacksons in matches which seem to be quite effective but also takes more micro since they're fragile
      But I have never seen more than 1 Jagdpanzer or StugIII (because axis don't need that much against ally tanks)

      Maybe they can raise the pop cap so people won't be likely getting more than 1 but buff it's stats to not need more than 1

      Rangers needs some active skills like : Sprint or Smoke to help em get closer and do there job
      As well as variation in the description it say "High trained Marksman" so i though to well give them to pick from Assault Package (Thomsons+Sprint or smoke) OR Markmanship package (M1903 Springfield or M1 Garant ) for Medium/long range distance fighting that will make em adaptable you have the Vanilla that are good medium range, thomson that is good close range and M1903 Springfield that is good medium long range

      I think rangers do need a different ability to help them close the gap, they're very good close range but for example Shock Troops have 2 grenades and rangers don't have smoke or armor to tank more shots while closing in

      Are just...boring and simple need something for them

      • m10 wolverine : Another joke of the USF to be honest this tank should not be locked behind a doctrine,when you get this "Badboy" the Axis already has a Panzer or the panzer its at the gates waiting to come on the battlefield and the Wolverine its just bad not worth its cheap but as i say cant do much his purpose is to destroy light tanks and vehicle yes but it come out to late for that and dont start with the Crushing potential of the Wolverine xD we all know thats not possible when the enemy have these days almost all basic units has zooks or shrecks he will die before taking out a single men

      I'd like to like this unit too, it's still good against P4 but that's it. It's very weak and comes too late to get to vet before a Panther or Tiger comes in.

    • In 1v1 its good becouse people usually axis go for p4 but out of it is dont worthy of a place in a that doctrine lets see Armor division : - ass inginers ok,Vehicle elite crew ok i guess (good if they will allow vehicle to vet faster but i think its just them if you use em as a unit and you never do) , Wolverine just said my opinion , the buldozer has no AT potential and the artilery decent all around Armor division and have no real answear to Axis advance medium,Heavy armor

      -Calliope : good piece or artilery but cant shoot its main gun and that's a drawback you shoot and then 2 minute its a dummy tank and can be easly flanked and destroy by a fast tank on a raid in base

      I wish this tank would shoot, I don't know why it can't shoot if it has a cannon, they should have picked another Rocket Artillery unit for that... or should have made it an attachment for shermans like they already do with dozers

    • we all wish that Calliope should come with a main gun or atleast a Sherman with upgrade to Calliope like the buldozer one

  • #12
    2 months ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    @GrayGabi can't bear that someone has another opinion?

  • #13
    2 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 92

    @Darkpiatre said:

    -Why allies has more winrate? well they are more skill based races...axis player tend to DESTROY 2-3 noobs then they get overconfident and as we all know.... "Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" they will go vs good allies player that will think and dont do the same mistakes over and over again and they will roll over with heavy tanks and gets anihilated,

    Well, I personaly don't think that there is more skill base faction than others, but think what you want

    It looks like you need more game experience, and I'm not being mean but seems you don't really understand how hard is to play with USF compared to other factions.

    As USF you need to constantly micro your units because they can self repair that's great but also need to be attentive to not get your crew killed because they're as fragile af, and basically can loose a vehicle if no infantry is nearby, can get stolen even. (Play against Artificial Intelligence and you'll see how often you can steal their tanks, or simply the AI will abandon them for no reason)
    You have to watch out for that on top of regular micro.

    USF is more flexible in a way but you need to be attentive to your units a bit more than usual, because they can come in and out of vehicles.
    Might look simple but try to do that in the middle of the fight where you need to watch out over your infantry and frontline tanks, having less armor and just say 1 volley of panzergrens pzshrecks will really hurt any medium (lucky if 1 misses).

    Do you need to worry about riflemen/LT with zooks against a Jadgpanzer? maybe
    Panther? KT? nah they will bounce like fireworks most of the time and KT will 1 shot half of the infantry unit as they need to get close to shoot

    As a side note:
    I'd genuinely like to see Zooks reduced cd between shots to make up for those less pen/damage stats since most of them bounce, and the only units that get slightly buffed stats from zooks are Paratroopers and Rangers... but that's basically wasting an AI that is expensive to dive against tanks.

  • #14
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807

    The difference between units was MUCH MORE than today.
    Today, Jackson has 640hp (4 hit kills), 160 damage. 6 hit to kill Panther (960hp)
    Now image in 2014 Jackson used to have 480hp (3 hit kills), 240 damage which is also 3 hit nearly kill Panther (800hp)

    There are many new players that cant play Jackson because of low HP, so they had to increase HP and reduce damage.
    Talking about Panther vs Jackson required 15sec to kill each other, now it require 20-25sec. I dont talk about balance in this comment, Im telling the game nowaday is easier, you have 25% more time to react. But in the opposite, its easier to spam.

  • #15
    2 months ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48
    edited March 25

    @Fax well, if micro units in a fight is the most difficult part in game, so Ostheer is the most difficult faction to play, because 4 man squad mean either a lost shell from arty or a grenade that you didn't see can just wipe your entire section, and this type of problem can easily be seen in 1vs1 where at the end of the game, even if there is 200 vp in each side or the Ostheer is winning in VPs, the fact that he lost his entire infrantry will automaticaly make him lose. And with all type of arty available on the allie side, you can be sure that there will be nothing left at the end.

    Zooks were design to counter only medium armor and below since Coh1 and for a reason, plus there is a mechanic where when something bounce, it does 20% of it's inital damage i guess (not sure of the number so).

    As for a buff, well I would like to see paratroopers with their own type of bazookas like they had in coh1, maybe it would be more expensive but as effecient as a schrek, but each game is different.

  • #16
    2 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 92

    @C3Tooth said:
    The difference between units was MUCH MORE than today.
    Today, Jackson has 640hp (4 hit kills), 160 damage. 6 hit to kill Panther (960hp)
    Now image in 2014 Jackson used to have 480hp (3 hit kills), 240 damage which is also 3 hit nearly kill Panther (800hp)

    There are many new players that cant play Jackson because of low HP, so they had to increase HP and reduce damage.
    Talking about Panther vs Jackson required 15sec to kill each other, now it require 20-25sec. I dont talk about balance in this comment, Im telling the game nowaday is easier, you have 25% more time to react. But in the opposite, its easier to spam.

    Oh boi I didn't know about that I don't have that much time playing, I barely remember when bulletins were stackable but I did not play much back then.

    @Darkpiatre said:
    @Fax well, if micro units in a fight is the most difficult part in game, so Ostheer is the most difficult faction to play, because 4 man squad mean either a lost shell from arty or a grenade that you didn't see can just wipe your entire section, and this type of problem can easily be seen in 1vs1 where at the end of the game, even if there is 200 vp in each side or the Ostheer is winning in VPs, the fact that he lost his entire infrantry will automaticaly make him lose. And with all type of arty available on the allie side, you can be sure that there will be nothing left at the end.

    Ok look, I see you're very resilient to anyone that has commented to you here and the other post about OST so far... if you're not open to other opinions then there is no purpose to keep discussing with you.
    We all are explaining to you what points we agree and which not and some have proven that with numbers, but you keep defending axis on every point we talk and not saying what you agree and what not, you just keep saying Allies OP because Axis has less infantry in numbers and Panther is weaker than Comet (when Panther is basically the strongest non-doc medium tank in the game)... you're missing the point, axis late game infantry is getting cost reduced next patch and Tiger AI is getting nerfed in case you didn't notice, these are still subject to change but you get the point.

    I could say the same about Axis (both OST and OKW), they have Arty which has Counter Battery to counter other Arty and PAK43, why allies don't have a PAK43 equivalent too? Why it that can shoot through walls when Axis has higher armor like Panther, KT and JadgT? UKF has 17 Pounder but can't shoot through walls and can't get de-crewed but is non-doctrinal so that's fair.
    I'm not complaining at all I do think these 2 big ATs are balanced, I'm just using your logic to compare how you complain about things, you say Allied Arty can 1 shot your infantry, yes also Axis arty can 1 shot infantry if clumped, nothing new.

    Your opinion is not balanced, you are just saying stuff that you think is bad for axis without agreeing with something on allies like on the other post you're commenting

    Zooks were design to counter only medium armor and below since Coh1 and for a reason, plus there is a mechanic where when something bounce, it does 20% of it's inital damage i guess (not sure of the number so).

    Then why PzShrecks can badly hurt Heavy Allied tanks but Ally can't reliably hurt a Panther if it's not with an ATG or other Tank? then nerf PzShreck like zooks too, they don't do bounce damage at all, it sure can be implemented but I don't think that will change

  • #17
    2 months ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    @Fax then it's time to learn to read properly

    You are just putting as an absolute thruth that my opinion is not balanced, then who are you to say that? At no point I have directly say that your example are bullshit or personnaly attack your way to think, just use another argument or example as defense, if you can't do the same then you are the one who can't handle a debate.
    Plus if you've really understand my logic, you would just have agreed on many point i've just said, because it's my logic isn't it? But no, you just keep complaining because we dare touch your dear faction.

    As for arty, axis doesn't have any Priest or sexton, so if it have one of those 2 doctrines, you're just dead because they are armored vehicule, so at an arty vs arty game they will automaticaly win, because they are more resilient and mainly because they can move.

    Then why PzShrecks can badly hurt Heavy Allied tanks but Ally can't reliably hurt a Panther if it's not with an ATG or other Tank? then nerf PzShreck like zooks too, they don't do bounce damage at all, it sure can be implemented but I don't think that will change

    Well nothing more to say, must just be a joke, or you haven't a single clue about the second world war and it's technologie and the will of the game to respect ,at least a little, historical matters.

    • rangers with 3 zooks do piece easily a panther frontal armor, so I guess you've proven another of my point.
  • #18
    1 month ago
    FaxFax Posts: 92

    @Darkpiatre said:
    @Fax then it's time to learn to read properly

    You are just putting as an absolute thruth that my opinion is not balanced, then who are you to say that? At no point I have directly say that your example are bullshit or personnaly attack your way to think, just use another argument or example as defense, if you can't do the same then you are the one who can't handle a debate.
    Plus if you've really understand my logic, you would just have agreed on many point i've just said, because it's my logic isn't it? But no, you just keep complaining because we dare touch your dear faction.

    As for arty, axis doesn't have any Priest or sexton, so if it have one of those 2 doctrines, you're just dead because they are armored vehicule, so at an arty vs arty game they will automaticaly win, because they are more resilient and mainly because they can move.

    I never said I have a dear faction, I'm just criticizing your opinion and I'm not personally attacking you, you're entirely missing the point here but whatever you say dude, good luck.

  • #19
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited April 1

    rangers with 3 zooks do piece easily a panther frontal armor, so I guess you've proven another of my point.

    Non doc tanks

    • Panther armor: 260
    • King armor: 370
    • Pz4 armor: 180
    • JagPz armor: 230
    • Stug armor: 140
    • Ostwind armor: 110

    RM Zook pen: 130
    Ranger Para Zook pen: 160
    Soviet PTRS pen: 100
    Piat pen: 130

    => Ranger Zook pen 61% on Panther, 43% on King at close range


    • Sherman armor: 160
    • T34 armor: 150
    • Crom armor: 160
    • Jack armor: 110
    • SU85 armor: 140
    • FF armor: 160
    • Comet armor: 290
    • Chuch armor: 240

    PzShreck pen: 180

    => PzShreck pen 62% on Comet, 75% on Churchill

    Can u stop crying abit...at least about Zook easily pen Panther & King
    Like man, look at that, Shreck pen 100% every Allies tanks except Brit Tier4 tanks
    Ranger Zook cant even pen Pz4 100% at close range

  • #20
    1 month ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23

    the only think I don't like about the state of balance is that as USF I need to make Sherman to deal with AI(they are kinda meah vs tanks), and Jackson to deal with tanks ( ONLY Tanks they cant hit infantry ) ...as for axis they can make 1 tank that can deal with tanks and infantry

  • #21
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807

    a Sherman in any vet may lose 1v1 Pz4 in the same vet.
    Though at vet1 if Sherman go in swarm to get Radio net 3 effect, they're a beast. Sherman vet1 with Radio net 3 can beat Pz4 vet 3 easily.

    But nowaday who builds Shermans? They have no chance against Panthers
    Who builds Pz4? They just barely have chance against TDs (except u surprise 4-5 Pz4 rush kill TDs)

  • #22
    1 month ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48
    edited April 2

    @C3Tooth well nice numbers, so if you take 2 rangers squad (6 zooks so) you can do some basic maths, that's makes an average 4 rockets which can pass through the panther armor, plus the bonus damage and there you are. Plus it is not a surprise that 2 section of zooks-ranger are less expensive + easier to macro than 3 PZgren. (removed)

    As for the churchill (165 fuel), he has 1400 HP against 1280 for the KT (260 fuel) (why? I still don't understand but whatever), that's why you can spam it with it's decent pen, high survivability (HP+armor+Smoke) and have a decent AI capacity. And that's the point of many allie tanks, whether it is the T-34-85, the Easy eight, the M4C, the Churchill, The M4 with dozer blades are all cheap yet versatile units, which makes them spammable, that was your point, wasn't it?

  • #23
    1 month ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23
    edited April 2

    @Darkpiatre said:
    @C3Tooth well nice numbers, so if you take 2 rangers squad (6 zooks so) you can do some basic maths, that's makes an average 4 rockets which can pass through the panther armor, plus the bonus damage and there you are. Plus it is not a surprise that 2 section of zooks-ranger are less expensive + easier to macro than 3 PZgren. (removed)

    As for the churchill (165 fuel), he has 1400 HP against 1280 for the KT (260 fuel) (why? I still don't understand but whatever), that's why you can spam it with it's decent pen, high survivability (HP+armor+Smoke) and have a decent AI capacity. And that's the point of many allie tanks, whether it is the T-34-85, the Easy eight, the M4C, the Churchill, The M4 with dozer blades are all cheap yet versatile units, which makes them spammable, that was your point, wasn't it?

    il just copy paste from another post :D

    I think if im not mistaken 3 pzgren with shrecks(180 armor pen) do more damage because zhrecks have more penetration then rangers zookas ( + pzgren get automatic weapons so they can hold the line agains infantry + sprint when near a vehicle + OP nade + smoke and repair + can build ) if you like math ok do the math for the damage of 3 squads shrecks + the pzgren utility then do the rangers utility ( a decent grenade ) and the zooka damage (160 armor pen)
    its a fair deal In my opinion

    me for one id love to see the otherway give the rangers the utility of the pzgrenadiers (OP nade,repair,build,combine arms passive,4x thompsons from the start) and not be a doc unit and make the pzgren a doctrine unit make em 5 unit squad give em 3 pzshrecks and one normal grenade and to pay for the 4x assault rifles if you desire assault rifles not shrecks

    • no one here is crying we just speak please show some respect to @C3Tooth he is not picking a side the man has some knowledge ( I read some of his posts ) and he know what he is talking about...check some of his posts this man don't have tunnel vision he know what is wrong with allies factions and axis as well

    @C3Tooth Respect man I admire you

  • #24
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited April 1

    I cant deny that I sensitive to people who cry alot.


    I doing it here, but Im not hoping u understand it.

    The way Church tanking damage is different than King. Using Panther 260pen on Churchill 240armor, Panther will pen Churchill 100%, requires 9 shots to kill. Jackson 260pen on King 370armor, Jack will pen King 70%, requires 8 shots to kill.
    With the rate, total of shells Panther needs to kill Churchill is 9, total of shells Jackson need to kill King is 12 (8 shells / 70 chance to pen x 100hp). Fair enough?

    Its like u have an old Ferrari, see your neighbour has a new Toyota, wishing "geez, I wish I have a new Ferrari"
    U care for 1400hp Churchill more than 1280hp King, deny King has 370armor more than Churchill 240armor. You want that 1400hp while keeping 370armor.

    My point: each unit has their own advantage that u're not willing to see it.

  • #25
    1 month ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    @GrayGabi from all you're the most incredible one, but I will be a bit more patient with you, in order to see if you can see a bit further.

    Let's begin with:

    @C3Tooth said:
    => PzShreck pen 62% on Comet, 75% on Churchill

    and

    @C3Tooth said:
    => Ranger Zook pen 61% on Panther, 43% on King at close range

    So I think we can consider that they are pretty similar in their utility, now let's suppose the schreck really do more damages, would it do any differences since 2 volley is enough to kill a regular tank. Now the pen, does really 20 is much of a difference? seems not regarding to @C3Tooth numbers. And NOW THE REAL POINT: i'm sure than 3 PZgren would be a bit more efficient because they cost 300 MP MORE, AND THEY ALSO TAKE MORE POP CAP, AND MORE DAMAGE SPREAD AMONG MORE SECTION MEANS MORE VETERANCY REQUIEREMENT.

    Now let's see where you are completly wrong:
    -OP nades: Cost 50% more, do more damages, simple
    -Sprint near vehicule: vet 1 + I hope you're hugging your vehicule or it is tanky enough so survive long enough where the PZgren are suppose to go (and they are suppose to go in the TD formation...)
    -Smoke nades: I guess only 2 commander have the ability to give them than, so It's quite the same thing as the Urban doc
    -Repair: same as above, only 2 commander and that's not really usefull
    -Can build: really, they can? Where? who? what?

    So if you don't mind, it's time to learn a bit more of the game before talking. Plus I love your new PP, where did you get it?

  • #26
    1 month ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48
    edited April 2

    @C3Tooth Making a strict comparison between the churchill and the KT wasn't the point (that's why I said "anyway"), plus the KT isn't spammable, so my point remain. (removed)

  • #27
    1 month ago
    GrayGabiGrayGabi Posts: 23

    @Darkpiatre said:
    @GrayGabi from all you're the most incredible one, but I will be a bit more patient with you, in order to see if you can see a bit further.

    Let's begin with:

    @C3Tooth said:
    => PzShreck pen 62% on Comet, 75% on Churchill

    and

    @C3Tooth said:
    => Ranger Zook pen 61% on Panther, 43% on King at close range

    So I think we can consider that they are pretty similar in their utility, now let's suppose the schreck really do more damages, would it do any differences since 2 volley is enough to kill a regular tank. Now the pen, does really 20 is much of a difference? seems not regarding to @C3Tooth numbers. And NOW THE REAL POINT: i'm sure than 3 PZgren would be a bit more efficient because they cost 300 MP MORE, AND THEY ALSO TAKE MORE POP CAP, AND MORE DAMAGE SPREAD AMONG MORE SECTION MEANS MORE VETERANCY REQUIEREMENT.

    Now let's see where you are completly wrong:
    -OP nades: Cost 50% more, do more damages, simple

    WUUUUTTTTT it costs 35 munition xD the rangers/rifleman nade cost 30 or 35

    -Sprint near vehicule: vet 1 + I hope you're hugging your vehicule or it is tanky enough so survive long enough where the PZgren are suppose to go (and they are suppose to go in the TD formation...)

    *facepalm

    -Smoke nades: I guess only 2 commander have the ability to give them than, so It's quite the same thing as the Urban doc

    Only 2 commanders give rangers for the USF so its legit

    -Repair: same as above, only 2 commander and that's not really usefull
    -Can build: really, they can? Where? who? what?

    Not build its MARK TARGET ability that will make em even more potent vs tanks then rangers

    So if you don't mind, it's time to learn a bit more of the game before talking. Plus I love your new PP, where did you get it?

    you say I don't know the game :D but you just say the bundle cost 50% more then the USF nade Noice :D and this is my last post Goodnight :)

  • #28
    1 month ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    @GrayGabi I will make it more simple just for you:
    -the nade cost more, it does more damages, simple enough
    -Vet 1 sprint is in a small area which encourage the combined armed tactic more than the sucide squad tactics, so you will have to send a vehicule in front of TD to keep the sprint which will get it kill, so the sprint isn't something usefull in this kind of situation ( instead of the ability of the USF)
    -USF have less commander than the Ostheer, so having 2 commander with an ability doesn't represente the same % of the commander allowing you to use it, + those 2 commanders aren't the most popular since they don't even unlock an heavy tank.
    -MARK TARGET ability? Maybe, but I don't think it works on tank anyway, have to try, but again it's part of 1 ability of 1 commander.

    So yes, you are not accurate enough in your post, so whether you don't play the game or you don't know enough about, in either way you are not able to debate properly, so I encourage you to stop until you're able to bring real argument with real accurate numbers.

  • #29
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807
    edited April 2


    If u compare 2 units, u bring all the stat both has, u dont just bring in HP & Price for "why Church is cheaper but more HP". Its a fail comparison.

    King is the only tank in the whole Coh2 game that able to tanking, killing infantry, and pen most of tank.
    Churchill barely able to fight tank, they can tank and fight infantry

    Churchill is unlocked in Tier4 the same as Comet, Churchill & Comet are equal in game design but each has different role. King is behind Tier4, u dont unlock King in Tier4, u have to back tech to get King.

    Im afraid, people who u say "are reading" here are those who agree with u in ur pov. All I do is to tell each units have advantage, eventhough some can not be used like the old day like core Medium tanks. And u compare 2 units that not even in the same Tier about little numbers that Allies has it better, while speaking I strict compare them.

  • #30
    1 month ago
    DarkpiatreDarkpiatre Posts: 48

    @C3Tooth the point was just to bring the fun fact that the most tanky tank was the churchill, despite the over price and historical matters around the KT. Because for most people, me included, the most tanky tank was suppose the be the Jagtiger or King tiger. Anyway the point is, the churchill isn't that bad against tank and can be spam due to it's cost and survivability quite easily.

  • #31
    1 month ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 807

    1 thing I dont like that Churchill is non-doc but better than KV1 doc, for exactly the same role. Especially with smoke ability
    Churchill is op IF u have 3 USF team mate that have 10 TDs staying behind u ready to support.

    More HP doesnt mean a tank can be tanky, if every shell drop ur HP. As I said at close range, Panther pen Churchill 100%, it will be always 9 hits to kill. But for King able to take 8 hits, but 70% pen rate which they may take various from 8 to 16 (as 12 is the average)
    But its easier for Church players control when they should retreat. For King if you got pen 2/8 shells and bounce another 10 shells, u can be confidence in an advance. But if suddenly the next 3-4 shells are all pen, there is no way to retreat.

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