(UKF) (ALL) - Assault officer, Tommy & Medic changes from the Winter Patch

#1
9 months ago

Disclaimer: I'm a UKF main player and I have hundreds of hours in the game, but I'm no MLG and I recognise these may be wrong.

I understand why there were made, to give a CQB squad, to move healing reliance from Tommies and try to make Tommies more balanced. But most of the debate seems to be agonising over numbers and values when the prob is just there's an unfilled role which needs a unit to fill it. When an existing unit is adjusted to perform well in a role it wasn't intended to be in, it has multiple domino effects into it's original niche and interactions with units, as we're seeing with the current state of Tommies.

Basically there are 3 things which need to be fixed with Brits::

1) After the latest update, UKF healing to too powerful and encourages blobbing (or it already was with Section's medical supplies)
2) How to keep the Tommies' in cover strengths while giving the UKF faction some open ground potential
3) How to give UKF earlier anti-garrison and a serviceable CQB unit.


1) After the latest update, UKF healing to too powerful (or it was already was with Section's medical supplies)

I haven't played against UKF since the update, but by playing as one, it feels like there's too much healing now? I have an amazing medic squad who can go wherever independently AND my rifles can heal themselves and anyone near. It feels way too easy to keep everyone topped off.

I understand why the medic squad was thought necessary and I like the freedom of moving my healing unit around at will, so my suggestion is:

  • Remove the medical supplies upgrade for IS

And replace it with another upgrade, perhaps to try to separate out the IS's power a bit late game across different squads and encourage some diversification and micro. When just one of your combat squads can heal everyone nearby simultaneously WHILE ON THE MOVE blobbing gets much easier too.

I would also suggest make the medic squad's medical supplies ability a toggle-able AOE that locks movment (Like USA ambo) So it can't heal on the move and it can be set up by a retreat point.


2) Keeping the Tommies' in cover strengths while giving the UKF some open ground infantry potential
This is an idea that's literally older than the game itself, has been raised loads and was successfully implemented in COH1 - it's basically proven to work, are the devs deliberately avoiding it?

  • 'Green Jackets upgrade' like the recon section from COH1. A light, fast section for mobile warfare, flanking and harassing, so normal tommies can be kept in their cover-loving defensive identity, but UKF still get something more mobile to work with them:

"Tommies receive a skirmishing package of sharpshooter rifles and artillery flares. Section sacrifices their heavy weapons capacity for better performance in mobile warfare."

Requires Platoon Command Post

  • Sprint ability
  • Add scoped lee-enfields
  • Removed out of cover penalties and in-cover bonuses
  • Removed weapon slots (no brens or PIATS)
  • receive parachute flares when the player picks hammer tactics instead of gammon bomb. (from Pz fusiliers & rifleman company)
  • arty flares (without the smoke drop) & smoke rifle grenade (from Rear Echelons). Remove current arty flare upgrade, so arty dropping is tied to this Green Jackets package.

By late game a current Tommy that can throw down smoke, then run up to call in an arty strike and throw a gammon bomb feels a bit much. Making flares and smoke part of this upgrade instead would separate the firepower (of dual brens & gammon bomb) from the arty & spotting a bit and give the UKF a mobile squad to compliment regular Tommies. I guess these would synergise similarly to US rifle squads and pathfinders.

To work with vet bonuses for IS:
vet1: Sight range in cover increases by 10m in heavy cover
vet2: Received accuracy decreased by 33%
vet3: No longer gives 2 scoped lee-en-fields


3) Giving the UKF earlier anti-garrison and a CQB unit.

The assault officer is very powerful and it really feels forced into the unit roster and out of place, it's a commando stylised officer unit with no other assault units to command! And I think having no dedicated CBQ assault squads is a fair factional disadvantage to have given the UKF's other strengths and defensive nature. But it still needs something.

-Remove the airlanding/assault officer from the Platoon command post.

  • Give Ro.E enfield rifles as standard
  • Give Ro.E an 'assault package' upgrade. Squad receives light gammon bombs for garrison clearing, buffed Stens and body armour (from Heavy engineers) for CQB. Squad loses the ability to construct buildings and defences (mines etc) but can still repair. Weapon slots also removed (no PIAT/Bren)
  • Heavy engineers could remain the same (now with enfields not smgs) but . ..
    . . . the upgrade feels like it can't identify between a combat engineer or advanced repair unit. With this other assault package upgrade in the game. 'Heavy engineers' could be renamed as 'R.E.M.E package', the upgrade loses the Vickers and body armour in return for gaining the repair critical ability (from US vehicle crews). Keeps the double repair/build speed (ofc) and is still slowed down in combat from the extra repairing gear

The minesweeper could be upgraded alongside either of the two RE packages.

If you don't know what REME are: https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/corps-regiments-and-units/corps-of-royal-electrical-and-mechanical-engineers-reme/

There is now a mid-game anti-garrison assault unit and the anvil engineer upgrade feels a bit more purposed, not hamstrung between a combat upgrade and something I want waiting to fix my tanks.


Also, these ideas together feature true units and regiments in the real UKF of WW2, not an abstract 'heavy engineer' or 'assault officer'. I think it's a major plus.

Comments

  • #2
    9 months ago
    WAAAGH2000WAAAGH2000 Posts: 132

    I miss COH1 IS rifle grenade....

  • #3
    9 months ago
    SkazzSkazz Posts: 57

    wow, i thought healing in combat and on the move was taboo :o

  • #4
    9 months ago
    CobraVCobraV Posts: 3

    Nobody uses the combat medic, watch some replays; it's a waste of MP and it can't take hits - on top of all that, the healing doesn't work properly.

  • #5
    9 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 305

    I use them, they not that bad for 180mp concider they not stationary. You can walk around with them or order them to a forward post so you don`t have to be forced to choice between forward retreat or healing (whish i don´t understand when glider comes with medic and retreat, also okws truck is able to upgrade with both and sturms have selfhealing as well)

    But they have some issius healing, looks like if you don´t use the "all healing" they seak to wonded squad and heal by themself

  • #6
    9 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    edited April 2020
    What would be nice is if you could give medics a patrol area that they dont move any further than that circle.
    Click to set a patrol use mouse wheel to select circle size and left click a location like right behind whatever size building or buildings.
  • #7
    4 weeks ago

    With over a 1000 hours as the UKF to my mind the minutae of IS costs and benefits tend to completely miss the point- as the problems UKF face are more generally strategic. IS are merely a crutch for an otherwise broken faction. When I bought the full game I was gobsmacked at how easy it was to play as OKW in particular.

    First off UKF have no reliable non doctrinal strategic or tactical recon, other than the 17 pdr flares. Though to get these you have to get the emplacement to vet 1 and dedicate a units worth of manpower to garrison it. So that's 20% of your popcap gone, or a FA which is a units worth of precious manpower. It used to be the case that you could get an IS to vet 1, pyro it, then pop it into a UC for it's garrison bonus for fast spotting but they seem to have nerfed it. Was a great trick, which I kept to myself. :)

    17 pdr can be anywhere on the map for the flares, though they are merely vet givers to axis indirect so noone uses them.

    The second problem is resources. A UKF player can either afford to equip his units or to use his crutch doctrinal ( and constantly nerfed) abilities but not both. Munitions are the key but many useful ones go unused due to an overall shortage. None of the other factions seem to require anywhere near as many munitions, Soviets especially.

    The third problem is that UKF only has one mainline infantry, hence relic have to cram early, middle and late scaling into IS alone. Hence they are awful early game, and very effective with all vet and upgrades. Heavy sappers are locked out by hammer though curiously seem to roughly mimic IS with all upgrades.

    By design UKF are supposd to field smaller numbers of defensively minded units..

    http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2015/08/17/coh2-faction-comparison

    Though playing UKF feels more like playing chess always as black and without a queen.

    With all that said my suggestions would be...

    1. Add a resource boost to the 17 pdr and remove the need to garrison. Hence make it a flyswatter for diving vehicles behind the lines, or one that dies bravely in a frontline sector but one which pays for itself in terms of resources expended provided it is kept alive. I've no idea what values would be deemed right and proper but a significant boost to munitions. In other words resource substitution between fuel and munitions.

    2. Add an upgrade to the UC, locked behind tech, to give it a proper role later in the game, when frankly almost everything pretty much one shots it. Very long sight range, a speed boost and defensive smoke or smoke callin should do it. Also consider whether the Valentine could have a non doc role. Turn one of them into a mobile observation post.

    3. Add light infantry right from the start. 5 man squads which could be bolstered to 6 though with weapons upgrades limited? Rifles to start replaced by stens for instance, or a single weapon slot. Maybe even start them at 6 and no bolster.

    4. Make the Churchill a proper heavy tank rather than a damage sponge. I have no idea what a damage sponge is meant to be other than to facilitate quick vetting for the opposition. Feel free to limit it to one unit though it's historical armour was equal in thickness to the KT and of far superior metalurgical quality.

    5. Make more use of the base howitzers in a counter battery role. Something akin to the doctrinal counter battery capability.

  • #8
    3 weeks ago

    Seems the flares on the 17 pdr have been nerfed, though no idea when or why. Shows how often anyone builds one though. You can now only use them.... Pretty much within touching distance... After a long delay.

    As though anyone could think that the most useless waste of space unit in COH2 was OP? They were just about the only reason to build one and allowed the use of commanders which had no recon of their own (most of them). The most popular OKW commander has basically the same ability though without the need to gift vet to the opposition indirect fire or Paks.

    It is quite notable that all potential avenues for recon on the UKF side are constantly nerfed or removed entirely. Command vehicle had a free recon plane, which was promptly always shot down by all the free axis AAA such as their base guns. Was amazed to see that a steep munitions cost had been added for this almost useless ability.

    A faction which by design has to rely on fixed emplacements has got to have cheap non doc recon or else it is just deliberately designed as a sitting duck with no counter play possible against indirect fires. And this seems to be the direction of travel.

    I see that even the expensive pyrotechnic upgrade for IS is due to be nerfed in the name of 'balance' in an upcoming patch. I can only think of a single UKF commander ability which can be used without line of sight into the fog of war so I will reiterate that making a static faction as blind as possible is not and never could be balanced.

  • #9
    3 weeks ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 305
    edited January 1

    It is quite notable that all potential avenues for recon on the UKF side are constantly nerfed or removed entirely. Command vehicle had a free recon plane, which was promptly always shot down by all the free axis AAA such as their base guns. Was amazed to see that a steep munitions cost had been added for this almost useless ability.

    I notice also that the flare ability has almost no range on the 17 pdr.

    In term of recon the officer in the stockbuilding has a great recon pass ability, sure it's locked behind vet1 but it's almost impossible to not get the officer to vet1 withing a coupple of minits. The only problem is that he is a mp-bleeder, cost some crazy 35mp to reinforce. I hope they fix that and make him a 30mp reinforce instead. I get it if you wear able to build more then one, but with only one squad he´s too expensive to reinforce.

    Anyway, there you have your stock recon

  • #10
    2 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903
    edited January 5

    A faction which by design has to rely on fixed emplacements has got to have cheap non doc recon or else it is just deliberately designed as a sitting duck

    Early
    1. Tommy
    2. UC
    3. Vicker
    4. Medic

    Mid
    5. Sniper
    6. ATgun
    7. Sapper
    8. Officier
    9. AEC
    10. Bofors
    11. Mortarpit

    Late
    11. Cromwell
    12. Firefly
    13. Centaur

    Super late
    14. Comet / Churchill
    15. Pounder17

    Early
    1. Volk
    2. Sturm
    3. Kubel
    4. ATgun

    Mid
    5. MG34
    6. Luch / Supportgun
    7. Puma / FlakHT
    8. Stuka / InfragHT

    Late
    9. Pz4
    10. JadPz
    11. Panther

    Super late
    Unlock 6,7,8 units again
    15. King


    At mid game, you have 11 different units. Okw has 8.
    Remove Bofors & Mortar, you have 9.
    9 > 8

  • #11
    1 week ago

    @C3Tooth said:
    At mid game, you have 11 different units. Okw has 8.
    Remove Bofors & Mortar, you have 9.
    9 > 8

    8 units that are more effective at what they do that all that UKF have.
    Bofors and Mortar are too easily deleted by field artillery or a couple of walking stuka barrages. Which forces you to dedicate sappers to repairs and risk getting them wiped.
    A single Panther cancels mediums and IS stronger than firefly or a comet for that matter.
    All in all OKW combined arms is stronger.

  • #12
    1 week ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    Bofors and Mortar are too easily deleted by field artillery or a couple of walking stuka barrages. Which forces you to dedicate sappers to repairs and risk getting them wiped.

    I dont know why people bring in stuka, I find Supportgun is better than putting 200damage on 1000hp Bofors then reload for 90sec. Double stuka is no way can delete Bofors & Mortar. Plus push back 200fuel will massive delay Okw Medium.

    A single Panther cancels mediums and IS stronger than firefly or a comet for that matter.

    High rank players said Comet vs Panther is only matter of RNG.
    Panther is better to kill core Medium than Comet, and able to AA.
    Comet is superior in AI
    They are equal in different perspective

    All in all OKW combined arms is stronger.

    Sadly, this game "reward" specialized units than combined arms. This is why blob is always a thing.

    There was a match, 4v4, I was USF vs an Ost 1v1 on the south of a map.
    He had an MG42 bunker, an MG42 squad, a Gren, a Pion, a Snip, a Mortar.
    I had a Rear, 2 Riflemen, a Mortar, then I dropped a Paratrooper far behind his defend. Waiting to finish Thompson upgrade.

    I used Mortar to smoke behind his defend so he cant see Para coming. I grenade MG squad, tactic assault instantly whip Pion (I focus on whip so I pick Pion before Gren), he was panicked retreat his Snip just only also get whipped. Gren is the only squad that "able" to fight Para, and retreat soon after. Mortar could not do anything to me, then I lay demolition on bunker, Mortar also retreat right after that.
    A single smoke and a Para completely destroy a well "Combined arms" defensive.

    I used to main USF, I only use 3 Para, 2 Jack, a Scott and do the highest damage in most game.


    Brit is much stronger faction.

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