Lets talk Shermans

#1
2 months ago

Dear all,

The regular stock Sherman of teh USF is an alround tank at a modest price but seems to be outshined by all other main battle tanks. Its smoe ability, different kinds of ammo and great veterancy make it a diverse but little used tank. it seems to have to little speed nor the armour let alone the penetration to deal well with other tnkas. Additionally its HE shells are underwelming making it an below average anti infantry tank.

Perhaps improving the tanks speed, turning speed, turret rotation speed etc. help it to become on par with the main battle tanks of other factions. Perhaps at a small fuel cost increase. The sherman was such a prominent tank for the allies, its a shame that it (in its basic form) is so under used and outclassed by the other tanks.

Thoughts?

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Comments

  • #2
    2 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    I also agree, non-doc sherman feels really lack luster in damage and AP pen against a P4 not to say a Panther.
    At least some RoF or turret speed should be adjusted to compensate a bit for the lack of damage

  • #4
    2 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 511
    @BlaCOH ya that sucked. I watched the replay. A good 5 minutes at least you did almost double damage to infantry and he just kept coming right back got a luches to even out the damage lost the luches to your Sherman, Snook over with 2 racketenwerfers at your base with a great big cheese of a kill on your Sherman and instant retreat all the way back their base.

    If I did that with 57mm they would be decrewed and stolen trying to reverse all the way back home.

    You had enough for a second sherman and he comes out with a panzer while all you get are bounces with Sherman, 57mm and bazookas dam man.
    cant get a flank since you know he is just going to reverse to his volks and raketens.

    Long range shot from raketen finishes your sherman befor you can reverse out and it is basically gg.
    As your 2 57mm guns still bounce rounds off the panzer.
    It took a snare and a Jackson to finally kill the dam thing as you surrender.

    I love how much infantry and vehicle damage his 1 panzer does.
    Was equal inf damage to the luches around 1k with no pintle upgrade.
    But I'll bet even with he rounds your Sherman would not be able to keep up with infantry damage not that you want to have that on while the panzer is roaming at near full hp and not back at base repairing.

    More often then not I see this alot where usf tanks spend more time repairing than actually out doing damage.

    Ya I can get a vet 3 sherman but I'll do about 12k damage and take about 28k in return and not even touch the damage against infantry that axis tanks can produce.

    Now beings it is a panzer 4 j model I understand it is a step up from the whermacht panzer4 but still...it is bouncing a ton of 57mm rounds and typically you would see a decrease in infantry damage with the upgraded variants since they are geared more twords anti tank.

    Honestly if I was playing that match though I would have said F that panzer 4 keep my Sherman the hell away from it and use he rounds against his infantry useing 57mm and bazookas/snare as just a deturrent to not charge your Sherman and wait till you can get enough for a Jackson to come out.

    those raketens going to give you a hard time and ide say if you can kill em off that would open a window of opportunity but good luck with that and their retreat function.

    Even panzershrecks can hit you at max range of you main gun so your just trading blows with infantry.

    Sometimes I get a lucky m20 mine to go off and their tank is about screwed.
    Raketens are the bigger issue though or even shrecks will wreck your tanks since this hinders the jackson.

    Ide say hmg but you will never have at and hmg and tanks unless you steal an hmg.
    I'm glad you did not go and grab lieutenant with stuart since luches ive known to kill off a stuart.
    Hell I've had 3 222's and a luches charge a
    couple stuart I had and kill both in a 4v4.
    Best I did was kill 1 222 and almost kill the luches with engin crit from point blank engin shot.
    Here i thought my Stuart's were going to be enough vs the 222 spam serves me right for thinking.
    Think I even had a 50 cal up their to no avail since it got focused down rather quick.
    Then when the ostwin came out I had no way to pen the armor and it was gg.

    usf needs a good hard look at in contrast to the bigger picture.

    You could build in the early game a fighting position so hmg "support" or spam and sturms dont push you around but guess what hmg out ranges the fighting position so it does not get hit by rifle grenades and 1 volk can run up to it throw a flame grenade to take it down to 30% hp let's say and finished with sturmpioneers assault rifles before you can return the the fighting position.

    Me I would need to take bazookas at gun or mortar to kill a bunker.

    Another one I see is 2 or even 3 kubelwagens early game and not much rifleman can do as they just repair and come back since we have no hmg and a mortar is meh as they can dodge easily enough.
    I hate haveing 2 usf players on the same side in a 4v4 your just asking for trouble.

    Just small things every which way that adds up to a whole bad experience.
  • #5
    2 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 511
    Oof I had a game today I wanted to see what I could do with stuart.
    I will have to try and play more games see if i can get a good video.
    I ended up with 2 Stuart's and 2 Sherman's that in the end helped me kill a king tiger and a normal tiger.
    Funny thing is Stuart's did most of the damage.

    mostly I had Sherman's in the front dealing with infantry and when I spotted a heavy I would run up behinde with a stuart to block movement and point blank engin shot them.
    Still had a hard time because they would turn their heavy tank up against a building so I couldnt stay behind them and gave my Sherman's a hard time so I needed to keep Sherman's at different angles to get a good shot to rear armor and I ended up losing both Sherman's and kept both Stuart's alive in the end doing more infantry and vehicle damage than Sherman's despite he rounds against infantry or flanking the heavy tanks mostly the shermans where their it seemed to just tank damage from the heavy tanks and of course panzershrecks which I somewhat mitigated with 50cal and paratroopers lmg.
    Destroyed 3 battlegrounds headquarters with demolishion charges and tank/mortar fire.
    And 2 axis mortar halftrack typ vehicles
    But in the end sill lost the match.
    Mostly do to teamates poor gameplay.

    But i definately want to try again with the Stuart's hopefully get a good replay.
    + atleast I know I have a snare if I lose all my rifleman to give them something to think about instead of charging in.
    I might still have this replay I could post it.
  • #6
    1 month ago
    lordpeter3lordpeter3 Posts: 347

    Sounds like a great match, stuards do suprisingly well somtimes, just to bad that vanila shermans are so lackluster.....

  • #7
    4 weeks ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 20

    Question,

    Wich unit is equivalent to Sherman in Axis faction ?

  • #8
    4 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 852

    Core medium tank: Pz4. At least for Ost, Pz4 Okw has better stats - more expensive.

  • #9
    3 weeks ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 20
    edited June 12

    Always loose vs Pz4...
    Useless again medium tank and just usefull vs infantry or use smoke

    it seems we don't play the same game sometimes^^ xD

  • #10
    3 weeks ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 982

    @LoveMeNow said:
    Always loose vs Pz4...
    Useless again medium tank and just usefull vs infantry or use smoke

    it seems we don't play the same game sometimes^^ xD

    They aren't mirrored units. The P4 gets better AT but worse AI.

  • #11
    3 weeks ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 20

    There is a difference between equivalent and mirrored, today Sherman is not equivalent to Pz4...

  • #12
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 852
    edited June 13

    Sherman:

    • Vet1: Gain radio net ability, buffed to 1 level for each tank near them, can be buffed to 3 level. Each level -5% reload time, +5% sight.
    • Vet2: Speed max, speed acc, speed dec, rotation +20%. Accuracy + 30%
    • Vet3: Reload time -20%, weapon target +35%

    Ost Pz4:
    Vet1: Gain blizt ability = speed max +35%
    Vet2: Armor +30%, Speed max +40%
    Vet3: Reload time -30%, rotation +20%, Speed acc +10%, Speed dec +10%

  • #13
    3 weeks ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 20

    Front armor 234 I understand why this unit is invincible... thanks for this chart
    It show some ilogic things and this game

  • #14
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 852

    Its more expensive than T34/85. It has worse gun than Sherman. It has worse engine than sherman. The balance is the numbers, more fuel = better than. Except Okw Pz4 only have better armor for 30fuel more, nothing else.

    Beside, 234 armor is pointless vs TD 260 pen.

  • #15
    3 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 511
    I cant say fore sure how true all these stats are.
    I know for certain non vet testing that p4 has better turret rotation and fire rate than Sherman.
    And the advantage Sherman had with accuracy is somewhat mitigated by it haveing a larger target size than The p4 which I remember seeing in some of the more recent medium tank updates.
  • #16
    3 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 511
    Ok the p4 turret rotation was slightly slower but it had a higher fire rate.
  • #17
    3 weeks ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 511
    The higher fire rate also helps mitigate the difference in infantry damage obviously.
  • #18
    3 weeks ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 852

    @38Lightning

    p4 has better turret rotation and fire rate than Sherman.

    I didnt check turret rotation, but sure Pz4 has better reload time by 0.3sec
    All Sherman type has target size 21, all Pz4 & T34 type has 20.

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