[OST/OKW] PAK43

#1
7 months ago

Just a small appreciation thread for the good old PAK43. A wunderwaffe that for some mysterious reason still has an ability to shoot things through structures and obstacles, and when 'killed' is only de-crewed, unlike it's allied counterpart, rendering it basically indestructible, especially in team games.
In all seriousness though, this is something that I don't understand why still exists. There are virtually no downsides to this unit.

Comments

  • #2
    7 months ago
    XalloXallo Posts: 17

    so true...

  • #3
    7 months ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 29

    Relic know that but don't move the finger...
    Why, because if it removed it will be vulnerable and Axis players will complain.

  • #4
    7 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 849

    No downsides to this unit? What game mode can you use it in? Cant use it in 1v1, and anything 2v2 and over its useless due to massive amounts of offmap/onmap arty. I actually wish i could use it more often, because its such a cool unit. Sadly, it is not the case.

  • #5
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    Do you want to know the upside for Allies vs Pak43?

    Killer the crew, then arm the Pak with your best squad (Shock, Ranger, Commandos ect), you will have half your squad crew the Pak. Use self detonate, half the squad that crew the Pak become a new squad. Now you have 2 Shock.

    You're welcome.

  • #6
    7 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    PAK43 is very powerful but it also gets destroyed easily after 2nd or 3rd time decrewed, or you can also shoot ground with another AT or Tank to kill it faster since it's quite big (once decrewed).
    As Soviet you can plant a demo and blow it.

    There are lots of ways to counter it you just gotta see what's best for your situation, there's the 120mm mortar as soviet or just normal mortar even, you have Fire Artillery, Katyusha.
    As USF you have mortar/pack howi/Scott and even some call in Arty or Cluster Bombs

    Or just as C3Tooth said, just crew it and use the self destruct ability and punish the player that poorly positions it's ATG.

    It's quite annoying tbh since Allies don't have very strong tanks compared to Axis but also 17pounder won't bounce on any tank anytime soon

  • #7
    7 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    I'll agree their are methods to kill pack43 but I think what tips the scales is very simply ease of placement.
    Because it can fire through objects It wont be fireing into the dirt of a hill side like most at guns and also due to this it is easier to place on a variety of maps with no direct line of sight then you add in it has a smaller size it can fit into locations the massive scale of the 17 pounder can only dream of.

    In reality the british player may not build the 17 pounder at all but if you have acess to a pack 43 you really have no reason at all not to build one at least in comparison.

    It is just far to easy to utilize.
  • #8
    7 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 305
    edited June 2020

    @38Lightning said:
    I'll agree their are methods to kill pack43 but I think what tips the scales is very simply ease of placement.
    Because it can fire through objects It wont be fireing into the dirt of a hill side like most at guns and also due to this it is easier to place on a variety of maps with no direct line of sight then you add in it has a smaller size it can fit into locations the massive scale of the 17 pounder can only dream of.

    In reality the british player may not build the 17 pounder at all but if you have acess to a pack 43 you really have no reason at all not to build one at least in comparison.

    It is just far to easy to utilize.

    Don't forget it outomove also once it spot a tank in range, so no micro need compared to the 17 pounder. It's also way faster to rotate and ready aimtime the first shot than the QF 17.

    There was a reason it could be garrison and get some decent bonus to add up for it, but a lazy fix with moving one ability to vet 0 was choisen instead and cutted out the garrison bonus totally by simply just making it unable to garrison..

  • #9
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    I find a problem that Pak is smaller & able to shoot through that make them much easier to build, without pay alot of time to think where to build them. While able to build behind big buildings for protection. In 4v4 urban map, Axis has Pak and if Allies have zero off map or Penal sachel, its really hard to destroy Pak.

    Beside that, Pak is much more fragile because of crew. Pounder is extremely tough, they should be though, because of 70fuel price.

  • #10
    7 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 849
    edited June 2020

    I literally have not seen a pak43 since this game came out in 2013. But then again, no one ever used hull down and yet it somehow got nerfed. Nothing surprises me anymore.

  • #11
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    I see them alot as Allies player. Sometime they paired with an Elephant, instantly kill any medium in a blink.
    But mostly Pak are from Okw heavy fortify commander, not Ost

  • #12
    7 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 849

    I don't play 3v3 or 4v4, so maybe that's why i don't see them.

  • #13
    7 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    Thats explain, some units / commanders just dont suit in big game, and vice versa.

  • #14
    6 months ago

    @ARMYguy said:
    I literally have not seen a pak43 since this game came out in 2013. But then again, no one ever used hull down and yet it somehow got nerfed. Nothing surprises me anymore.

    Just because you don't encounter some things doesn't necessarily mean no one uses them. 1v1 and 2v2 are relatively balanced modes. Mass modes have literally no balance whatsoever and thing that may be outright stupid in 1v1 becomes a winning strategy in 3v3.

    And just to add the context to the topic.
    Just consider options of eliminating the thing that are at allies disposal.
    Penal satchel... provided penals can survive the trip and it doesn't get caught on some outstanding prop.
    Grenades/molotov... same as satchel minus getting caught.
    Mortars... require too much time to at least de-crew
    Pack-howitzer... more or less reliable but only is available to USF
    Rocket-artillery... virtually useless when PAK43 built behind a building, especially tall one.
    Doctrinal abilities... anything reliable is around 200 muni plus requires vision to be called, so it requires a suicide rush or a combo with a recon(+~60 muni)

    In team games combo with a replenishment option, especially OKW one renders you attempts to be in vain.

    @C3Tooth said:
    I find a problem that Pak is smaller & able to shoot through that make them much easier to build, without pay alot of time to think where to build them. While able to build behind big buildings for protection. In 4v4 urban map, Axis has Pak and if Allies have zero off map or Penal sachel, its really hard to destroy Pak.

    Beside that, Pak is much more fragile because of crew. Pounder is extremely tough, they should be though, because of 70fuel price.

    I'm sorry, but 17-pounder is anything but tough. I'ts a precious little gem that breaks after 2 stuka of werf volleys if not braced, burns from a couple of fire mortar or filed arty rounds and gets bullied by any AT gun since it needs a clear line of sight to fire. It used to be good when it was an actual threat. Right now it is more of a glass canon. It packs a punch, but can take none. And on top of that it costs 70 fuel.

  • #15
    6 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 849
    edited June 2020

    @Tezozomoctzin said:

    @ARMYguy said:
    I literally have not seen a pak43 since this game came out in 2013. But then again, no one ever used hull down and yet it somehow got nerfed. Nothing surprises me anymore.

    Just because you don't encounter some things doesn't necessarily mean no one uses them. 1v1 and 2v2 are relatively balanced modes. Mass modes have literally no balance whatsoever and thing that may be outright stupid in 1v1 becomes a winning strategy in 3v3.

    And just to add the context to the topic.
    Just consider options of eliminating the thing that are at allies disposal.
    Penal satchel... provided penals can survive the trip and it doesn't get caught on some outstanding prop.
    Grenades/molotov... same as satchel minus getting caught.
    Mortars... require too much time to at least de-crew
    Pack-howitzer... more or less reliable but only is available to USF
    Rocket-artillery... virtually useless when PAK43 built behind a building, especially tall one.
    Doctrinal abilities... anything reliable is around 200 muni plus requires vision to be called, so it requires a suicide rush or a combo with a recon(+~60 muni)

    In team games combo with a replenishment option, especially OKW one renders you attempts to be in vain.

    @C3Tooth said:
    I find a problem that Pak is smaller & able to shoot through that make them much easier to build, without pay alot of time to think where to build them. While able to build behind big buildings for protection. In 4v4 urban map, Axis has Pak and if Allies have zero off map or Penal sachel, its really hard to destroy Pak.

    Beside that, Pak is much more fragile because of crew. Pounder is extremely tough, they should be though, because of 70fuel price.

    I'm sorry, but 17-pounder is anything but tough. I'ts a precious little gem that breaks after 2 stuka of werf volleys if not braced, burns from a couple of fire mortar or filed arty rounds and gets bullied by any AT gun since it needs a clear line of sight to fire. It used to be good when it was an actual threat. Right now it is more of a glass canon. It packs a punch, but can take none. And on top of that it costs 70 fuel.

    You literally just described the same exact pluses and minuses of the PAK43 as you did the 17 pounder. They both pack a punch, and both die to a stiff breeze. It is the point of them both. PAK43 is actually even worse, you can snipe it out and capture it with ease.

  • #16
    6 months ago

    Except PAK43 is behind cover, is decrewed when "killed", does not require it's own line of sight to shoot.
    They are the same in purpose, but entirely different in execution. And so far PAK's ups outweigh it's downs.

  • #17
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    A bonus ability Pak has that i dont like is self destroy to get back 15 fuel. Beside, doc units are usually better than non-doc. Shock & Pzgren are example

  • #18
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    edited July 2020
    I can agree I dont much care for the destroy and fuel reimbursement if I have it placed where I want it then it will either be destroyed or I need to get the best use of it I can so i need meaningful abilities which Is why I am glad they got rid of the usf refuel and refit on mechanized company.
    But at least you get something out of it I believe british get diddly squat returned if I'm wrong correct me on that though.


    yes general rule of thumb is doctrin units are better in Some regard but standard ones can still be used effectively if used acording to their strengths like putting rifleman or panzergens behinde cover to do as much damage as possible before assault grens or shocks get close enough to do enough damage as to win the engagement at close ranges meaning many of the units still maintain their own strategic values to a certain extent and their own quirks like panzergrens ability to sprint with vehicles now is nothing to snuff at either and you could then even kite the shock troops around as long as a vehicle is nearby to never allow them to get close enough to you while you keep stoping periodically to fire at them from a distance eventually they would have no choice but to retreat as they cannot keep up with you or you can activate sprint for a cost of 15 ammo I think to get you some distance again to squeeze some more damage in before they can get to close.

    Something like this on capt lieutenant or rifleman would have been a nice flavor as well like say rifleman get sprint for a short period of time after being in heavy cover would allow to dodge some assault grens grenades and could be used in unison with sand bags or tank traps to keep distance from short range weapons and squeeze off a few extra rounds.

    Rifle company sprint is not to bad in individual skirmishes but not as good as pansergrens vehicle sprint or cover to cover In terms of cost effectiveness.

    In any regard the 17 pounder lacks this same level of cosistent strategic usefulness of a non doctrinal unit and so sees very limited usage in games if any usage at all.
  • #19
    6 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 849
    edited July 2020

    Honestly, why is the 17 pounder an emplacement and not just a giant unmovable pak like the 43 anyways? They should have just made them similar and been done with it.

  • #20
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    The other thing no one sais is how the 17 pounder can be destroyed by a couple close range pioneers in about 25-30 seconds and that is without flamethrower upgrades.
    So it is not like it is invulnerable to small arms fire in the least either.

    Perhaps if they got rid of or reduce brace effectiveness and increased it's normal defences.

    Not allow it to take small arms fire would be a huge step since this unit can already take at weapon damage like zooks unlike the pack43 until it gets decrewed and also make sure it does not get destroyed in a single off map barrage since it is double the cost In fuel I could see it haveing half health after being hit by a barrage and be ok not like now where it is a complete loss of resources if you do not have brace doing this would increase consistency with the unit at the very least and allow a chance to use it more often.
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