Soviet - Balance problem

#1
6 months ago
HateHate Posts: 12
edited September 2020 in General Discussion

Problem

In fights, I encounter a fundamental problem. The Soviet Union is inferior to the Germans in everything. In the debut of the game, advice cannot create either a quantitative or a qualitative advantage over the Germans.

Conscripts. They cost as much as the grenadiers, but they are definitely inferior to them in battle.
Machine gun Maxim. It turns out much later than Mg. 34, while inferior to him in battle and does not have the ability to withstand armored vehicles. For some reason it costs as much as a German machine gun.
There is simply nothing to resist the grenadiers, assault grenadiers, panzergrenadiers, assault sappers, obersoldats. One squad of assault grenadiers in close combat destroys two squads of conscripts.

For example, a German has at the beginning 1 detachment of sappers, produces a machine gun, calls 2 detachments of assault grenadiers. The Soviet Union can respond to it before the first clash with 1 detachment of sappers, 1 detachment of conscripts and 1 machine gun. Or play through Tier 0 and expose 1 squad of sappers and 3 squad of conscripts.
There is no numerical advantage. What about the quality? German sappers beat Soviet sappers, under certain circumstances they beat recruits. One squad of assault grenadiers is guaranteed to destroy a squad of recruits. German machine gun is better than maxim. The Soviet Union has no chance ...

Solution

  1. Make a squad of recruits cheaper. 200-220 requisition.
  2. Remove upgrades to grenades for conscripts. They are too expensive, while the grenadier squads have them for free.
  3. Reduce the cost of the maxim machine gun to 240.
  4. Reduce the deployment time of the maxim machine gun and improve suppression.
  5. Make it necessary one point to call the assault grenadiers.
  6. Reduce by one point the call of the Soviet assault infantry. 2 points is too late. Already riding armored vehicles and veteran infantry of the Germans, against which expensive assault infantrymen are useless.
  7. Make the Soviet assault infantry cheaper. For example, 340 requisition units.

Comments

  • #2
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12

    The Germans defeat the Soviet Union in the debut, capture points with resources. Further, their advantage grows like a snowball.

  • #3
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12

    And one moment

  • #4
    6 months ago
    Gonter77Gonter77 Posts: 2

    hahahaah the wermacht, needa bust because you need just blob and you can destroy all of the wermacht, you have antitank in all units, your units are more inexpensive than germans and your means are more fast, all units wins 1 vs 1 with german.
    the granadiers are the worst unit in this game because the k98k are nerf.

  • #5
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12

    @Gonter77 said:
    hahahaah the wermacht, needa bust because you need just blob and you can destroy all of the wermacht, you have antitank in all units, your units are more inexpensive than germans and your means are more fast, all units wins 1 vs 1 with german.
    the granadiers are the worst unit in this game because the k98k are nerf.

    I hope it was sarcasm

  • #6
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    In this game, 1sec can turn the game. Such as enemy squad gets into key building 1sec earlier, or your tank escape from an ATgun cone 1sec too late.

    AssGren 280mp, Cons 240mp. Except AssGren doesnt need time to build, Cons requires 25sec. 40mp more is just need 8sec to gain.
    Gren just isnt worth to build anymore. No chance against 5men RM double Bars, 5men Tommy double Bren, 6men Ranger double LMG, Shock, Ranger...The only squad they can fight is Cons. Which no one build nowaday.

  • #7
    6 months ago
    MorisMoris Posts: 71

    In the situation that you are describing, the problem is not Maxim or conscripts. To deduce Maxim against the mobile army does not make any sense. Consripts in the wave can shoot the sturmgren from cover if they give them SVT or wait for the shock to exit.
    In general, the proposed solutions cannot be applied, they are too global. About the Sturmgren problem, I already created a topic earlier.

  • #8
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12

    @C3Tooth said:
    In this game, 1sec can turn the game. Such as enemy squad gets into key building 1sec earlier, or your tank escape from an ATgun cone 1sec too late.

    AssGren 280mp, Cons 240mp. Except AssGren doesnt need time to build, Cons requires 25sec. 40mp more is just need 8sec to gain.
    Gren just isnt worth to build anymore. No chance against 5men RM double Bars, 5men Tommy double Bren, 6men Ranger double LMG, Shock, Ranger...The only squad they can fight is Cons. Which no one build nowaday.

    You are a bad person. Why are you trying to transfer the conversation to another topic? I don't care about your tommies and rangers. The problem in this case is with the Soviet faction. They have absolutely nothing to resist the Germans.
    And even so, how were you going to arm your tommies and RM with double bren and bars when you do not have a map control, and therefore no ammunition?

    @Moris said:
    In the situation that you are describing, the problem is not Maxim or conscripts. To deduce Maxim against the mobile army does not make any sense. Consripts in the wave can shoot the sturmgren from cover if they give them SVT or wait for the shock to exit.
    In general, the proposed solutions cannot be applied, they are too global. About the Sturmgren problem, I already created a topic earlier.

    The same story is with you. How should I arm SVT recruits if I don’t have ammunition? Yes, even SVT recruits will be easily destroyed by assault grenadiers. No tactics with green cover and machine guns work, because assault grenadiers have the ability to run and devastating grenades. And if the map is urban, then even demagogues like you can’t invent anything.
    About the shock. They come out on two points when an veteran assault grenadier runs around the map and light armored vehicles ride on the map. They are useless against armored vehicles, and assault grenadiers with veteransy easily destroy shock. 360 requisition lowered into the toilet, congratulations.

    There can be no other opinions. Recruits, shocks and maxim need a buff.

  • #9
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903

    @Hate calm, I am DEFENDING Soviet here.
    @Gonter77 Cons is cheap doesnt make Cons produce faster than AssGren, since AssGren is a call in unit, which doesnt requires build time. Image both side have 240mp, Soviet build a Cons (take 25sec to complete), Ost wait for 8sec to have 280mp to call in AssGren, at this moment AssGren have 17sec advantage over Cons eventhough they're more expensive.


    I suggest u to download cheating mode to try what's the best unit to count AssGren in early game. At least I think M3 will do the job since AssGren have zero AT option. Penal is also scary even to Sturm, so I dont think AssGren can easily beat them.

    M3 help you to deal with MG42 too.


    The game is like a Rock paper scissor, they may surprise u with AssGren MG42 to take early advantage, answer them with Penal M3.

  • #10
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12
    edited July 2020

    @C3Tooth said:
    @Hate calm, I am DEFENDING Soviet here.

    Does not look like

    At least I think M3 will do the job since AssGren have zero AT option

    M3 has armor as thick as paper and easily takes damage even from assault grenadiers. And absolutely no protection from mg34. There is no reason to order it, except to try your luck.

    Penal is also scary even to Sturm, so I dont think AssGren can easily beat them.

    You are so naive. Assault grenadiers reach the penal in a green cover without using the abilities and destroy them, keeping one model. In any other scenario, assault grenadiers suck out the health of penal without noticeable losses for themselves.

    @C3Tooth said:
    The game is like a Rock paper scissor

    Nonsense. This is a tactical game. I want to be able to outplay my opponent in many ways. In any case, the Soviet do not have paper against the stone of the Germans. It's useless.

  • #11
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903


    1: I said this to Gonter, not u. Explaining why AssGren is expensive but not late to get like Cons

    2: This line is just explain why enemy didnt use Gren, but use AssGren instead.
    What else do u think it doesnt look like?


    Its up to you. Early game is a pure Rock paper scissor game due to lack of units. You can only out play enemy in many ways in mid/late game.

    Its easy to see between Brit vs Okw
    Brit use MG -> Okw use Kubel -> Brit use Tommy -> Okw use Sturm -> Brit use Carrier -> Okw use Rak. And the rotation goes around it.

    One of the strat is to surprise them, if you use a trick once, either success or fail, do it again and enemy knows exactly how to beat u.

    The angry from losing blinding u, please stop. If u come here just to complain and not take any suggestion, go on. I stop here.

  • #12
    6 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 849

    Can confirm, people that actually know how to use a scout car are by far the scariest to face when i am using assault grens, and even if i am not, you use it to chase down and kill weak retreating units. What you do not do is use it like a tank.

  • #13
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12

    M3 useless. For him, you need to build Tier 1, in which there is not a single useful unit. M3 is easily destroyed by a machine gun, a couple of detachments of assault grenadiers. Together with passengers it evaporates from one German mine.

  • #14
    6 months ago
    HateHate Posts: 12

    M3? Say hello to german mine.
    MG34 so happy...

  • #15
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 903
    edited July 2020

    Tier 1, in which there is not a single useful unit.

    Penal wants to talk to u.

    Flame thrower 60ammo, German mine 50ammo.
    By the time u have flame thrower on M3, enemy has a single mine.

    If ur M3 steps on a single mine in an entire map...

    I rather to use Gren snare to counter M3. But as ur problems that enemy spam AssGren which there is no snare.


    There are only 4 types of unit: AI infantry, AT infantry, AI vehicle, AT vehicle.
    AI infantry > AT infantry (u can damage enemy, but they cant)
    AI infantry = AT vehicle (both can not damage each other)
    AI infantry < AI vehicle (u cant damage, but they can)

    I learned in a hard way that keep building TDs to fight a pair of Panther is the most stupid thing I did. Since both are AT vehicle.
    Simply get AT infantry (ATgun, Zook infantry) which they can harm Panther but Panther barely harm them.

    Early game vs MG & AssGren are both AI infantry. M3 & Penal spam are the only choice to counter.

  • #16
    5 months ago
    namvnnamvn Posts: 14
    edited August 2020

    I'm not sure if OP is serious enough, I switched from Wermacht to Soviet for 2 weeks now, have more wins againts Wermacht and beat the living shjt out of OKW. Rifleguard, Penal, Shock troops are like walking diseases, infantry or light tanks you don't run fast enough you dead

  • #17
    4 months ago

    I agree one thing: the Soviets generally fare worse against the OKW than the USF or the British. Their early game infantry may compare to the Ostheer but not the OKW. Even Penal battalions struggle against their aggressiveness.

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