After watching about 40 USF vs OKW/Wehr matches

#1
4 years ago
half of them were 1v1s by the way

1st 5 minutes:
The 2 sides quickly get to work, capping points and preparing to harass.

5-10 minutes:
Suddenly the Axis gets pummeled by wave after wave of light vehicles, flack tracks, riflemen and slowly get pushed to their base sector

10-25 minutes:
40%: Axis surrenders, USF wins

60%: Axis decides to bite the bullet and do raids and potshots against the double sized USF army. the USF, getting overconfident, decides to not make anything aside from making a rifleman and reinforce, even though he has a sizable army, enough to destroy what litle the Axis has left. Meanwhile, the Axis, while resources starved, slowly gets vet for what few units he has.
25-30 minutes:
Suddenly, OKW, with its Vet 3-5 Oberstaltin, Volks, Panzer 2s, Pumas or the Wehr with Vet 3 Grens and Panzers. decide to rollout and steamroll the USF barely vetted units and quickly get a foothold in the map

30-End
The Axis slowly win by VP, ending with a King Tiger and Panther.

Afterwards, in the forums:
The USF player complains in the forums that the Axis is Overpowered and call for nerfs.

Does this match what happens with 1000's of other matches?

Comments

  • #2
    4 years ago
    AvnasAvnas Posts: 1,750
    usually there are more katyushkas than that
  • #3
    4 years ago
    balancestillsuxbalancest… Posts: 359
    p much right on. with scavenge doctrine you just wait until 9 cp,s then you arty walk like the brits or canadians from the old expansion. gg
  • #4
    4 years ago
    C0ffeebeanzC0ffeebea… Posts: 4,547
    Pretty much...The Ostheer is definitely capable of winning against USF, but they will have to work a lot harder for their victroy. Doesn't help that their Tier 4 is useless in 1 v 1 and to some extent 2 v 2...It's the weakest faction right now IMO. Their only "strength" is the Tiger, which is 11 CP and was nerfed a few patches ago.

    As for O.K.W., they're mostly OK except for the Kubelwagon, overpriced Panzer II and Panther, and useless Flak half-track.
  • #5
    4 years ago
    Pretty much...The Ostheer is definitely capable of winning against USF, but they will have to work a lot harder for their victroy. Doesn't help that their Tier 4 is useless in 1 v 1 and to some extent 2 v 2...It's the weakest faction right now IMO. Their only "strength" is the Tiger, which is 11 CP and was nerfed a few patches ago. As for O.K.W., they're mostly OK except for the Kubelwagon, overpriced Panzer II and Panther, and useless Flak half-track.
    Ost weakest? I dont see that happening. Whats wrong with the kubels? Except them being superfast mg's on wheels that you can spam to keep sov and usf from capping anything in the first minute or two. And panzer II is everything else than overpriced. And for the Panther meh maybe 5-10 fuel less but more manpower.
  • #6
    4 years ago
    daspoulosdaspoulos Posts: 2,633
    Riflemen should get a very slight long range dps nerf. And minor price adjustments in t4 for ostheer and t4 okw. I think that would prevent riflemen from steamrolling early game, and still make them super elite gods when dual upgraded.
  • #7
    4 years ago
    shadowwadashadowwada Posts: 78
    USF still has a shot to win after their inf starts getting owned. You replace the inf with a bunch of shermans and HUEHUEHUEHUEHUHUEHUEHUE around the map
  • #8
    4 years ago
    Sifer2Sifer2 Posts: 200
    daspoulos wrote: »
    Riflemen should get a very slight long range dps nerf. And minor price adjustments in t4 for ostheer and t4 okw. I think that would prevent riflemen from steamrolling early game, and still make them super elite gods when dual upgraded.


    If Riflemen get any nerfs then US is going to need some more units in tier 0 none doctrinal. Right now I can't help but feel many German players are mad Grens lose but forget the US side has zero other options but to spam Rifles. So it's on the German player to used combined arms.


  • #9
    4 years ago
    GinsengGinseng Posts: 169
    checkout GeneralsGentlemen good cast, i see okw and ostheer both dominate, and usf destroy early game as well. Haven't seen too many Soviet matches lately.
  • #10
    4 years ago
    C0ffeebeanzC0ffeebea… Posts: 4,547
    Ost weakest? I dont see that happening. Whats wrong with the kubels? Except them being superfast mg's on wheels that you can spam to keep sov and usf from capping anything in the first minute or two. And panzer II is everything else than overpriced. And for the Panther meh maybe 5-10 fuel less but more manpower.
    Ostheer and Soviets both have expensive teching, so it's better to just use Tiger instead of Tier 4, or T-34/85 instead of Soviet T3 or T4.

    -Ostheer has only two infantry units, one of which is overpriced and dies easily to upgraded Riflemen. Panzergrenadiers are only useful for Panzerschrecks now IMO.

    -Grenadiers lose to Riflemen at all ranges.

    -They need two MG42s because one will easily be overwhelmed by USF.

    -Ostheer players have to spend close to 700 MP getting their first PaK 40 ASAP or the M15A1 will roflstomp their whole army.

    -222 Armored Car is easily destroyed by US early game.

    -Flame half-track is completely worthless now.

    -Panther is overpriced for 1 v 1

    -Brummbar is overpriced for 1 v 1

    -Ostruppen are useless

    -Assault Grenadiers are easily counteredOf course Wehrmacht is still capable of winning, but I consider them the weakest faction because they have the highest number of underperforming units of any faction. The Tiger is the only thing Wehrmacht has over O.K.W. now, but O.K.W. can have the King Tiger, so...
  • #11
    4 years ago
    PelimanPeliman Posts: 314
    Ostheer and Soviets both have expensive teching, so it's better to just use Tiger instead of Tier 4, or T-34/85 instead of Soviet T3 or T4.

    -Ostheer has only two infantry units, one of which is overpriced and dies easily to upgraded Riflemen. Panzergrenadiers are only useful for Panzerschrecks now IMO.

    -Grenadiers lose to Riflemen at all ranges.

    -They need two MG42s because one will easily be overwhelmed by USF.

    -Ostheer players have to spend close to 700 MP getting their first PaK 40 ASAP or the M15A1 will roflstomp their whole army.

    -222 Armored Car is easily destroyed by US early game.

    -Flame half-track is completely worthless now.

    -Panther is overpriced for 1 v 1

    -Brummbar is overpriced for 1 v 1

    -Ostruppen are useless

    -Assault Grenadiers are easily counteredOf course Wehrmacht is still capable of winning, but I consider them the weakest faction because they have the highest number of underperforming units of any faction. The Tiger is the only thing Wehrmacht has over O.K.W. now, but O.K.W. can have the King Tiger, so...


    You didn't answer any of his questions. You are just saying same arguments over and over :confused:
  • #12
    4 years ago
    NapoleonBonaparteNapoleonB… Posts: 242
    Peliman wrote: »


    You didn't answer any of his questions. You are just saying same arguments over and over :confused:

    He just answered it lol, overpriced units and useless ones = weakest faction
  • #13
    4 years ago
    PelimanPeliman Posts: 314
    He just answered it lol, overpriced units and useless ones = weakest faction
    Well we can easily list every Russian unit which is overpriced and useless. It doesn't mean Russia is the weakest.
  • #14
    4 years ago
    NapoleonBonaparteNapoleonB… Posts: 242
    Peliman wrote: »
    Well we can easily list every Russian unit which is overpriced and useless. It doesn't mean Russia is the weakest.


    What you fail to realize is that the units he listed are basic core units of the Ostheer.
  • #15
    4 years ago
    C0ffeebeanzC0ffeebea… Posts: 4,547
    Peliman wrote: »
    Well we can easily list every Russian unit which is overpriced and useless. It doesn't mean Russia is the weakest.
    [FONT=verdana, geneva, sans-serif]SU-76 and Penal Battalions are the only Soviet stock units that are under-performing. Everything else aside from a few commander abilities is fine...If anyone thinks Soviets are weak atm, they belong in an Asylum.[/FONT]
  • #16
    4 years ago
    PelimanPeliman Posts: 314
    What you fail to realize is that the units he listed are basic core units of the Ostheer.

    Well we can do exactly same list:
    • Ostheer has only two infantry units, one of which is overpriced and dies easily to upgraded Riflemen. Panzergrenadiers are only useful for Panzerschrecks now IMO.
    • Russia has only two infantry units, one of which is overpriced and dies easily to upgraded Grenadiers. Conscript are only useful for throwing AT grenade now IMO.
    • Grenadiers lose to Riflemen at all ranges.
    • Conscript lose to upgraded Grenadiers at all ranges.
    • They need two MG42s because one will easily be overwhelmed by USF.
    • Russia have to spam Maxim because one and two is easily overhelmed by Ostheer.
    • Ostheer players have to spend close to 700 MP getting their first PaK 40 ASAP or the M15A1 will roflstomp their whole army.
    • Russia have to spend 40+50 = 90 fuel to get basic unit like Penals and ZIS in the field or the Flak half-track will rolfstomp their whole army.
    • 222 Armored Car is easily destroyed by US early game.
    • M3A1 Scout Car is easily destroyed by OKW early game.
    • Flame half-track is completely worthless now.
    • SU-76M Assault Gun is completely worthless now.
    • Panther is overpriced for 1 v 1
    • ML-20 152mm Gun-Howitzer is overpriced for 1v1
    • Ostruppen are useless
    • Rapid Conscription is useless
    • Assault Grenadiers are easily countered
    • IS2 is easily countered
    We can also add more:
    • All Russia's infantry dies to Obersoldaten IMO!
    • Russian sniper lose even to engineers at close range IMO!
    • NKVD Disruption Tactics is worthless.
    • Russian Conscripts Support Tactics is worthless.
    • ZIS are easily countered by infantry.
    • ISU (260 fuel!!!!) dies to well managed PUMA! IMO LOL OP SHIT
    • Katyusha lose to basic infantry at close range! OMG
    • Tank "counters" SU85 lose to Elephant!! OMG HOW SHIT IMO PATCH THIS
  • #17
    4 years ago
    CorsinCorsin Posts: 853
    Ost weakest? I dont see that happening. Whats wrong with the kubels? Except them being superfast mg's on wheels that you can spam to keep sov and usf from capping anything in the first minute or two. And panzer II is everything else than overpriced. And for the Panther meh maybe 5-10 fuel less but more manpower.

    Kubels die very quickly, and cost the same as a squad of infantry...Especially when there can be an M3 on the field almost instantly (in some cases the american jeep thing) which will pretty much instantly kill it, resulting in what may as well be a squad wipe... The kubel is a cross between a scout unit and an MG, unfortunately it does neither effectively, dies too easy. Id rather have another volks squad or upgrade one of my trucks for the 240 manpower drain.

    Panther is overpriced at 175 fuel... thats like 225 normal fuel. (see the issue now?)

    also.... the Ost is NOT OKW... lol i think you got your factions mixed up. Ostheer is the Wehrmacht on the russian front army.
  • #18
    4 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,018
    [FONT=verdana, geneva, sans-serif]SU-76 and Penal Battalions are the only Soviet stock units that are under-performing. Everything else aside from a few commander abilities is fine...If anyone thinks Soviets are weak atm, they belong in an Asylum.[/FONT]
    But Coffee! My Soviet units can't all stand out in the field with their guns up their asses and kill all Sturmpios the second they enter sight range and therefore everything is roflstomplolololOP and OKW needs nerfs clearly because gun bums must be valid because if I'm losing it's not because I suck but the game is obviously broken.
  • #19
    4 years ago
    sebastian_panzermansebastian… Posts: 358
    Ostheer and Soviets both have expensive teching, so it's better to just use Tiger instead of Tier 4, or T-34/85 instead of Soviet T3 or T4.

    -Ostheer has only two infantry units, one of which is overpriced and dies easily to upgraded Riflemen. Panzergrenadiers are only useful for Panzerschrecks now IMO.

    -Grenadiers lose to Riflemen at all ranges.

    -They need two MG42s because one will easily be overwhelmed by USF.

    -Ostheer players have to spend close to 700 MP getting their first PaK 40 ASAP or the M15A1 will roflstomp their whole army.

    -222 Armored Car is easily destroyed by US early game.

    -Flame half-track is completely worthless now.

    -Panther is overpriced for 1 v 1

    -Brummbar is overpriced for 1 v 1

    -Ostruppen are useless

    -Assault Grenadiers are easily counteredOf course Wehrmacht is still capable of winning, but I consider them the weakest faction because they have the highest number of underperforming units of any faction. The Tiger is the only thing Wehrmacht has over O.K.W. now, but O.K.W. can have the King Tiger, so...

    that was some good speech right there.....thanks cofeebeans, u are my favourite forumer, despaulous also.....u guys got the guts to say the truth, not some invented versions
  • #20
    4 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951
    Yeah, him, Corsin, Lazarus and Katiof tend to be on top of things.

    But of course, there's always a couple Lolcakes or Balancesquads around as well who see the world through blinders and lack any concept of a holistic view of the game.
  • #21
    4 years ago
    C0ffeebeanz;n81951
    Ostheer and Soviets both have expensive teching, so it's better to just use Tiger instead of Tier 4, or T-34/85 instead of Soviet T3 or T4.

    Q-Ostheer has only two infantry units, one of which is overpriced and dies easily to upgraded Riflemen. Panzergrenadiers are only useful for Panzerschrecks now IMO.

    A-volksgreniders cost less then riflemen get a 3rd squad out and the bar upgrade is just that a UPGRADE for 60 munitions PER SQUAD for 1 bar riffle per squad.

    Q-Grenadiers lose to Riflemen at all ranges.

    A-(once again cheaper if you want a unit to beat a more expensive unit u might want to upgrade it or buy a support unit your t1/0 building has mg teams US dose not.)

    Q-They need two MG42s because one will easily be overwhelmed by USF.

    A-the fact that you can easly pop out 2 mg 42 and stop the us advance says that you already have a viable counter maby you should use it.

    Q-Ostheer players have to spend close to 700 MP getting their first PaK 40 ASAP or the M15A1 will roflstomp their whole army.

    A-you just said you shrek your pgeniders thus maby u should use those sheks you also have handy dandy riffle grenades u might want to use those which btw after the nerf to the M15A1 2 shreks will cripple/kill and if u get some riffle dmg on it as its a lightly armored vehicle its a 100% kill.

    -222 Armored Car is easily destroyed by US early game.

    - u can get it out faster then we can get out at guns if so if we are going for the M15A1 and went bazooka upgrade to kill your 222 it use your infantry /mgs to kill us...

    -Flame half-track is completely worthless now.

    ​got me their haven't used it yet but attleat you don't have to upgrade a squishy squad of engineers to have flamethrowers on your half track that comes out at 4cp.(mechanized doc)

    Q-Panther is overpriced for 1 v 1

    A- i honestly have no clue what your talking about the panther is a mainly anti vehicle tank use it like a Jackson it is also fast and maneuverable keep it alive and snipe the crud outa enemy tanks.

    Q-Brummbar is overpriced for 1 v 1

    A- you have lots of immensely powerful endgame units if a few of you units are "over priced" that might mean its something u stall for

    Q-Ostruppen are useless

    A- their probably mostly useless but so are combat engineers and vehicle crews with Thompson upgrades.

    Q-Assault Grenadiers are easily countered

    A- so are riflemen dig in you have superior bunkers you have faster access to long range support you have so menny tools to deal with pure riflemen its not even funny
  • #22
    4 years ago
    C0ffeebeanzC0ffeebea… Posts: 4,547
    A-panzergreniders cost less then riflemen get a 3rd squad out and the bar upgrade is just that a UPGRADE for 60 munitions PER SQUAD for 1 bar riffle per squad.
    -That's not true at all. Panzergrenadiers cost 340 MP and Riflemen cost 280 MP. Not to mention the costs to tech up just to have access to PGrens, while Riflemen are available right off the bat...

    A-(once again cheaper if you want a unit to beat a more expensive unit u might want to upgrade it or buy a support unit your t1/0 building has mg teams US dose not.)
    -Penals are also expensive, but lose at range. Assault Grenadiers are also expensive, but lose at range. Assault Engineers are also expensive, but lose at range...Cost isn't everything. Riflemen have no drawbacks at all atm. Almost everyone agrees that they're too strong vs Grenadiers...With Penals, you can just keep your distance and you'll win the engagement most of the time. With Riflemen, Grenadiers will lose no matter what unless your opponent is charging at you without any cover...

    A-the fact that you can easly pop out 2 mg 42 and stop the us advance says that you already have a viable counter maby you should use it.
    -One MG42 is easily destroyed head-on by M1919 Rambo squads...That's why you NEED two.

    A-you just said you shrek your pgeniders thus maby u should use those sheks you also have handy dandy riffle grenades u might want to use those which btw after the nerf to the M15A1 2 shreks will cripple/kill and if u get some riffle dmg on it as its a lightly armored vehicle its a 100% kill.
    -You're suggesting to use rifle grenades against M15?...And no, I don't buy Panzerschrecks before my PaK 40 because those PGrens will be suppressed by the M15 before they can fire their second volley...Even if I did get schrecks, that's still a ton of resources the Ostheer player has to spend early on to get AT. Resrouces that could've went towards more AI units like Grenadiers, 222, or mortar...

    - u can get it out faster then we can get out at guns if so if we are going for the M15A1 and went bazooka upgrade to kill your 222 it use your infantry /mgs to kill us...
    -Sure, if ~30 seconds is enough to make use of 210 MP + 15 FU, and 55 MU before an M20 or M15A1 hits the field...

    A- i honestly have no clue what your talking about the panther is a mainly anti vehicle tank use it like a Jackson it is also fast and maneuverable keep it alive and snipe the crud outa enemy tanks.
    -Panther has the lowest DPS of any tank hunter. It has very good survivability, but 175 FU is still too much since it got nerfed. With current performance it should be 155-160 FU.

    A- you have lots of immensely powerful endgame units if a few of you units are "over priced" that might mean its something u stall for
    -Well I'm not talking about those other units, I'm talking about the Brummbar. It's the rarest unit in the game and for good reason. It's overpriced for 1 v 1 and dies easily to SU-85 and Jacksons. I'm not asking to buff it, I'm saying that it needs a FU cost reduction so people actually start using it for once. It's not a bad unit by any means, but it's really expensive, especially considering the amount of resources you have to spend just to tech up to Tier 4...

    A- their probably mostly useless but so are combat engineers and vehicle crews with Thompson upgrades.
    -What's that got to do with Osttruppen? You're saying it's OK for them to be useless just because other units in the game are underperforming as well? At least Combat Engineers can have a flamethrower...Ostruppen can't even fight their way out of a wet paper bag despite costing 200 MP.

    A- so are riflemen dig in you have superior bunkers you have faster access to long range support you have so menny tools to deal with pure riflemen its not even funny[/QUOTE]
    -Seeing as how you need two MG42s to babysit your Grenadiers, they're not really "easy" to counter at all...And once Riflemen gain veterancy and buy upgrades you're going to need a Panzer IV or Ostwind since your Grens and MG42s will just get shredded without tank support.
  • #23
    4 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468
    Which is why i've been playing allies lately, you win early most of the time...but they are hollow victories i'll admit, and deep down, a part of you dies.
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