How to deal with UKF late game
#1
4 years ago
Martinste…
Posts: 84
We've been trying this combination. I choose OKW and my friend chooses Ostheer.
But in late game, British Armor spam just wrecks us! Simply is that. Racketenwerfer can't even damage them and since they're fast, they can flank our forces. We try to flank their tanks with panzerschrecks but their Achilleses don't let us do that.
Axis armor is too weak for them. Their cruisers and fireflies are godlike. Not to mention that crocodile will denies any infantry presence on it's vicinity.
So, what should we do ? Is it some kind of balance issue, or are we playing wrong ?
- My friend has Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine and all the other free commanders.
- I don't have any premium commander.
But in late game, British Armor spam just wrecks us! Simply is that. Racketenwerfer can't even damage them and since they're fast, they can flank our forces. We try to flank their tanks with panzerschrecks but their Achilleses don't let us do that.
Axis armor is too weak for them. Their cruisers and fireflies are godlike. Not to mention that crocodile will denies any infantry presence on it's vicinity.
So, what should we do ? Is it some kind of balance issue, or are we playing wrong ?
Comments
Lose the mentality that every muni should go into shrecks and learn to use the sturmpio mine.
If they go emplacements just get a couple mortar teams and attack ground until they're dead.
Go straight for firefly tanks and destroy those first - they turn slow and have low armor and they can be shooting way back from those nearest tanks. Just ignore the nearest at first and destroy the fireflies. Check out the heavy churchill when it drives very close then it's going to drop a grenade, so just move everytime it's coming close.
That's it.
The amount of truth here hurts.
Funnily enough won a game with some friends in a 3v3, 2 of us British and 1 as the US. And my friend playing the other British used mines extremely effectively, so well to the point the Germans on the other team called him a map hacker, and then it descended to the base accusations of blaming Churchill spam, when we had a total of 3 Churchills between two of us. When really what he was doing was placing sandbags and then placed mines on the other side, so as soon as his German player saw free Green cover he ran over to it and put units there only for them to explode and never learned from this at all. And that entire side crumbled because of my friends excellent use of mines.
Now to be helpful from a british players perspective to avoid being a biased rager.
Mines. Jesus I hate AT mines. And the faust. And the skreks. In that particular order
Avoid basic tigers. But kings are good ENDLESS the enemy has mines and some form of tank above the average medium tank, then u will just get bogged down flanked and killed. Panthers. We still have nothing to compete with panthers. Our comets kinda can but they cost more and come later game and are overall weaker except to maybe infantry. Pgrens with shkreks will destroy anything short of a churchill in its tracks.
As OKW the volk blob of doom will wreck endless there is a centar. IF so just primary it then work on whats left. I rarely see brits have 2 at any given time
Brits don't have a tank snare or a form of personal AT. (PIATs are a joke even axis recognize it at this point) No at nades or anything of the like so ur medium tanks are usually safe to push just minus the mines some players use but ours are triggered by infantry so using em late game is rough on the muni supply aswell as our sappers don't enjoy being bullet sponges placing the things.
Hope this helps
Another Brit player perspective:
My main two commanders that I pick from are Mobile Assault Regiment, and Royal Engineer Regiment. Which I choose is usually based on how quickly I need a counter to OKW blobs and what my fuel income looks like.
Mid-game things that are a joke to me as a Brit player:
Late-game things that don't scare me as a Brit player:
Late-game things that do scare me as a Brit player:
Yet another Brit player perspective.
Tigers and KTs do not scare me as the Brits for one simple reason - I can outnumber them. For every Tiger or KT I can potentially field different combinations of vehicles to easily counter them - 2 Comets / 1 Comet + 1 Firefly / 2-3 Cromwells - or even just 1 tank supported with an AT gun. Perhaps it's due to some of the myths surrounding the Tiger series but I see a lot of players treat them almost like they are nigh-on invulnerable, sending them in with little to no support to protect the Tiger / KT from enemy AT infantry, AT guns or enemy tanks.
What scares me more late are when the Germans start fielding the cheaper but more plentiful units.
(I disagree somewhat with the Superheavy Tank Destroyer method, as without supporting AT they can be too easily dealt with by mutiple faster tanks, especially when Brits go Hammer Tactics and gain the temporary War Speed boost - it again feeds into the same problem that the Tigers and KTs have in my mind, relying too much on one tank against the Brits. With that said, I can see how it could be effective as other have mentioned above).
Panzer IV's in numbers are a quite good counter to the Cromwells, especially when supported by other AT like PaK guns. Panzer IV's supported by StuG III G's are even scarier due to the StuG's rate-of-fire and mobility. Yes the Firefly out-ranges it but the DPM of the Firefly is awful, StuG's are a fairly good counter to Fireflies. Take advantage of the Fireflies bad DPM to bring it down would be my advice.
What is even scarier is when Panzer IV's and / or StuGs are backed-up with a Panther in the late-game - Panthers are the rough equivalent of Comets and have the potential to beat them 1-on-1.
Also... MINES!
Now this isn't to say the Tiger and KT (and Elefant and Jagdtiger) cannot work against Brits; they most certainly can and I have had them work very well, but they must be supported with other AT against Brit tanks. To be honest that's a good rule to have for every faction - I see far too many people make the mistake of relying too much on getting that one, big late-game tank to win them the battles, (A mistake I used to make all too often with the USF Pershing), so that even if they get the early-game advantage they wind up losing the late game because they don't have the effective support the tank needs.
So my advice, as a Brit player, would be this: if it fits into your strategy then get the Tiger or the KT, but do not rely on it as that single game winning unit; make sure it has the support it needs to deal with multiple enemy tanks - even something as simple as Grenadiers using Panzerfausts is good, but make sure the support is there.
P.S. Just wanted to say I disagree with Lunarstor somewhat about PIATS. I can see why many think they are a joke, they have trouble hitting a moving target, but here it is a matter of micro. Success with PIATS comes from being able to out-micro your opponent, so they don't keep the tank moving then the PIATS can hit. And when PIATS hit the damage they do is respectable.
You should consider destroying enemy fuel caches; get at least 3 volks with shreks out in the frontlines in combo with an AT gun or two; puma is very potent against medium armor and below once its vetted, plus it has target weak point ability, which locks hull gun; get either a jag panther or the big panther 5 (which ever you can afford at the moment) b/c both are very effective counters. All of these units will help you fend off brit amour until your heavy armor hits the field. Believe me their all worth fuel/man power investment, but don't spam them so you can afford KT later.
STUGs can pretty much deal with any British armor threat with their insane ROF and cheap cost. Using an Ostwind/STUG combo is surprisingly effective vs. British because it forces them to make AT guns. Learn and abuse the Rifle Grenade on Vickers. Scope + STUG = dead British vehicles. Well-timed weak point shots will make mincemeat out of Cruisers/Centaurs even Comets.
As OKW, Jagdtiger Commander is by far the best anti-British commander. Assault artillery + Jagdtiger + G43 Fusiliers is pretty effective. P4s and Panthers are a waste of time. Your infantry are better than theirs. Jagdpanzers are amazing tank hunters. King Tigers are pretty effective if supported by Volksgrenadiers to deal with Fireflies.
But yeah, I never use Panzer IV's Panthers or regular Tigers ever. They are not worth the cost to straight up damage tanks.
I wanna know how to deal whit late game german stuff as USF the m36 is just missing and bouncing and flanking & mines wont do much when they have shrek spam on the side and a stuka.