Relic Balance Preview Mod Feedback

#1
4 years ago
Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin
edited April 2016 in Balance Feedback

The Balance Preview Mod is now live and we want your feedback on the numerous changes outlined in our release notes. That being said, there are some guidelines that must be followed for your feedback to be considered. Those guidelines are:

Rules for Providing Feedback

  1. You MUST have played the Balance Preview Mod. Preferably more than a couple hours.
  2. Your feedback must be directly related to the goals outlined in the Balance Preview Mod Release Notes.
  3. Your feedback must be directly related to the units outlined in the Balance Preview Mod Release Notes. For example, requests for additional changes to units, commanders or abilities not mentioned in this mod fall outside of the scope of this balance patch and will be automatically moved or deleted from the thread.

All posts that do not follow these guidelines will automatically be moved or deleted.

Other than that we are excited to test and get your feedback on theses changes and hope you enjoy them!

Subscribe and play Relic's Balance Preview Mod now!

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Comments

  • #3
    4 years ago
    GenObiGenObi Posts: 1,368
    Just wanted to say that so far its been a great experience playing the patch. I wanna give more detail feed back as soon as i have a good amount of time with the mod but just wanted to drop by and say fantastic work.
  • #4
    4 years ago
    StrategicMidgetStrategic… Posts: 58
    edited April 2016

    So far I am very impressed, had several hours playing the patch so far. I played a combination of OKW and Soviets, so I will submit my feedback as such.

    OKW:

    The new Volks are easily one of the best changes In this patch, being much more fun to use. A combination of brilliant scaling and combined arms potential makes them a capable frontline unit which is bizzarly more fun to use than the previous VolkShrekBlob. The faust is certainly a life saver in this regard, being able to punish aggressive light vehicle play in conjunction with a Racketten. The STG upgrade gives the Volks a great balance between being basic infantry, yet able to deliver quite a punch and thus give them late game potential. Therefore the Volks can now do well at any point in the game while not being too powerful, while their veterency really rewards unit preservation, which really corresponds with OKW strategy. It was good to see a new upgrade icon as well, although the icon shown on the unit after upgrading is still the Ober scoped version.

    The Racketten might need a look at, give that its the now the main early-mid game anti-tank for the OKW, and is still a little underperforming in terms of survivability and target acquisition, would recommend a slight look at. However, its certainly by no means atrocious, and is a great unit to use in synergy with volk faust to kill light vehicles.

    Certainly the combo is effective, although of course it can be a problem when there is no munitions for the panzerfaust, and/or the Racketten dies, making things a little hectic to say the least. Certainly If the allied player goes vehicle heavy double rackettens and copious amounts of mine are a must.

    The truck side tech caught me by surprise, but I have not played enough games to judge if it is a real problem ofr OKW as of yet, certainly a decent idea by all means now that OKW are at normal income.

    Having a non-doctrinal Mg34, with a 42 for the two commanders which formerly had said MGs, is also quite simply fantastic. It adds some much needed suppression that doesn't cost fuel (although the Flaktrack is still useful by being much better at its job) The 42's are, as predicted deadly, but not overly so (need to test vet4-5) Solid Change.

    Thus overall the OKW game has certainly changed for the better, and OKW susceptibility to light vehicle harass is not nearly as bad as people thought it would be. The best way to describe it would be simply...refreshing, refreshing in that OKW now have a nice number of equally rewarding choices and units to go for, while being much less cheesy. Overall It is fantastic. And conbributes to OKW no longer being so predictable to play.

    Soviets:

    A little less to say here, but I am also equally happy with things so far.

    Penals are in a real good spot right now, with a much greater capability for late game viability without being too cheesy while doing it. Overall I had some great fun with them, while balancing the risk of going Tier 1 with no antivehicle (good combo with guards)

    The Sniper is also much more survivable, which is great, although caution must be taken when buffing such units. Worth making sure that it is not overbuffed, but currently as I feel its in a good spot.

    One thing I found possible problematic is the fact you can now use tripwire flares to detonate demo charges, now that it does damage. Not sure if the implications of this are too powerful, since you can place the tripwire directly on the charge and also guarantee a micro-free wipe.

    The changes to soviet armour are quite simply fantastic as well, the T34 feels much more deadly on the battlefield (both using it and going against it) Furthermore the Su-85 is much more consistent and therefore fun to use, had a blast using one in conjunction with an IS-152.

    Overall thoughts: While I hope to test the other factions in time, so far my experience for this patch proposal is one of refreshment. So far there is no case of overbuffing, which also makes a welcome change when it comes to balance updates. Hopefully we can see some additional changes as the patch develops, with buffing of redundant units/commands/bug fixes and all that jazz.

    Recommendations:

    OKW might profit from a Shrek Sturm upgrade to give a more mobile infantry AT option, which cannot be spammed. Given that the Faust/Racketten combo is workable most of the time It may not be required, but considering that the Unit already has shrek voice data included, and is a natural fit it might be an idea to compliment late game OKW play, especially if the Allied player trains units that really hard counter both Volks and Rackettens, with artillery coming to mind. (perhaps unlock the shrek upgrade for sturms through building a second Truck, to encourage teching scaling, while making the faust/racketten play still very much relevant in the early-mid game)

    Thank you for reading, and great work so far!

  • #5
    4 years ago
    KithKith Posts: 144

    OVERALL
    I like the direction that things are being taken. The Heavy Tank Rear Armor nerf makes Heavy Armor much easier to counter, and also much easier to punish bad micro. I'm also a fan of the Mine nerfs, as they could be very frustrating to deal with.

    The spawn point movement I'm not too sure about - I didn't really notice much of a difference in terms of Time To First Engagement, but I'll keep an eye on it and see if it makes any major differences in other games.

    FACTIONS
    So far, I've only played Soviets extensively, so I'll give my feedback on them now and move on to the other armies at a later date.

    T-34/76
    The buff was definitely welcome, and making the machine guns more powerful is a neat way of adding additional micro opportunities.

    SU-85
    I'm happy that the SU-85 is now more effective against heavy armor on a per-shot basis - it feels much more appropriate. The previous rapid-fire version was nice enough for fighting light and medium armor, but lacked the "oomph" that I would expect from a dedicated tank destroyer (especially with the SU-76 being available).

    IS-2
    I'll be honest, I didn't notice much of a change. If I use them at all, I typically support my IS-2s with SU-85 or SU-76 escorts, so I cannot say for certain if the penetration buff helped very much.

    Trip-Wire Flare Mine
    Similarly to the IS-2, I rarely used these, opting to spend my munitions on an actual mine instead.

    RPG-43 AT Grenade
    Feels much, much more responsive. I'm very happy with this change.

    Penal Squad
    The new Penal Squad feels very nice and I've been using them extensively. However, I am concerned that Assault Package, Oorah, and Satchel Charge all make Penals overly versatile, in a way that I feel is too powerful for their price and intended role of "dedicated anti-infantry unit":

    • The Assault Package is the least offensive of the three, given that flamethrowers and SMGs are very much anti-infantry weapons, but I feel that the Soviets in general have too many tools for dealing with enemies in cover - Combat Engineers have Flamethrowers available to them and Conscripts have Molotovs. I would be much happier if Penals had access to a DP-28 upgrade instead, to further emphasize their anti-infantry role without giving them additional flexibility.
    • As for Oorah, I've always felt that the Penal Squad should not have it and I feel that more strongly than ever. The bottom line is that sprint abilities should only be available to close-combat infantry (Conscripts, Rangers, Assault Grenadiers, ect) to give them mobility to compensate, and Penal Squads are effective at all ranges. Also, it's always bothered me that it was granted at Vet 2.
    • Finally, Satchel Charge is for demolishing buildings and immobilized tanks. Given that the Penal Squad is being pushed towards dedicated anti-infantry, I do not feel that the Penal Squad should have access to it.

    In addition, despite Penal Squads now being viable to field, I have concerns about the potential holes that they leave. Building the Special Rifle Command means that the player is unlikely to build the Support Weapon Kampaneya to prevent delaying the construction of the Tankoviy Battalion Command, leaving them without core HMGs, Mortars, or AT guns. The lack of AT guns during the transitional phase can be compensated for with AT Grenades or mines, but the lack of any form of Suppression is very rough. To compensate, I suggest that the Penal Squad gets access to Volley Fire (similar if not identical to the Rear Echelon's version) for limited Suppression duty, to tie in to their intended role of dedicated anti-infantry and to make up for the probable lack of HMGs.

  • #6
    4 years ago
    DjDrowsyBearDjDrowsyB… Posts: 46
    edited May 2016

    I am really liking this patch so far guys, awesome job!

    A few notes on the UKF:


    UNIVERSAL CARRIER:

    PROBLEM: The Universal Carrier getting stock self repair along with the other improvements goes a long way in helping the UC, but I'm still finding it difficult to justify getting it past the 5 minute mark. Once the enemy starts pulling out pumas or 222's then the UC loses any real usefulness. The only ways it could maybe be useful afterwards is as a very iffy mobile suppression platform with the Vickers k (which seems better done by just getting an extra vickers MG), burning infantry out of buildings using the wasp (if they don't have anything to blow up the UC first), or upgrading it as a command vehicle (which is doctrine dependent and only really takes advantage of its low population cost). I know the UC is in a weird place for the Brits, but it would be awesome to see it have usefulness throughout the game rather than just at the beginning when there isn't much out.

    RECOMMENDATION: Giving it a recon/healing ability of some sort may go a long way in addressing this and add a new dynamic to the game for the British (I wouldn't mind a price increase to compensate if that is deemed necessary). Additionally, experience requirements should be lowered to help the UC achieve vet upgrades.


    SEXTON:

    PROBLEM: The Sexton buff seems to have worked out really well. In the last 2 games I played with it I managed to get around 30 kills both times (both in heavy choke point maps which is to its advantage). It still isn't a fantastic unit for combat (though it is preforming admirably) but it works great as area denial now. In all, I honestly think it is finally worth the investment. The reason I label this as a problem though is because of how the Sexton is preforming (so far) in relation to the Royal Artillery commander or, more specifically, the "Concentrated Sexton Barrage" ability. In order to take full advantage of the Sexton in the Royal Artillery doctrine you would (ideally) need at least 2 Sextons and a Valentine. This would allow you to use the Valentine's "concentrated Sexton barrage" ability and achieve its full intended effect. The issue being that it requires far too much population (Valentine-12, two Sexton- 28, 40 in total). This especially seems excessive to me considering the armored car (which plays much like the valentine from a combat perspective) takes 8 population and the Land Mattress (which is much more cost effective) takes 10.

    RECOMMENDATION: I earnestly believe that lowering the population cost of both the Valentine and the Sexton to 10 would greatly improve the overall dynamic of the Royal Artillery Commander. This would make using the Concentrated Sexton Barrage ability much more plausible and encourage the use of that joint ability throughout the entire game (at the moment the high population cost becomes too cumbersome in the late game when more tanks are out).

    EDIT (Sexton):
    PROBLEM: I would like to also address another problem with the Sexton, if possible. Currently, the Sexton's vet 1 upgrade is unlocking the "creeping barrage" ability. The issue is that there is no practical use for this ability. It is too slow (even with the patch buffs) to hurt blobs or work as area denial and the shots do too little damage to be effective against a row a defensive structures. It makes more sense on the Priest since it has higher damage and gets increased ROF/accuracy on vet 2 but it doesn't make any sense on the Sexton. I have been told that the first shot always lands in the exact same place and that the first shot's accuracy can be used as a sort of "sniping" ability but I am certain that is just an exploit and not intentional.

    RECOMMENDATION: Changing the vet 1 ability is all that is necessary to fix the problem. I believe the best ability to replace it with is a "white phosphorous" barrage (maybe 3 shells, same radius as regular barrage). This would make the Sexton more versatile and further cement it as an area denial unit (which would also have the added benefit of making it more unique when compared to the Priest). Alternatively, the ability could just be completely taken out and vet 1 turned into status buffs for the Sexton. Either would work, but I firmly believe that changing the ability would be best for the Sexton.


    LAND MATTRESS:
    PROBLEM: The Land Mattress is too cost effective. Raising its CP requirement was the right move but it is still over preforming for its cost.

    RECOMMENDATION: Raise the Land Mattresses fuel cost to 80. I believe this would be a fair price considering how well it trades and would force the British player to have to seriously consider whether they want a Land Mattress or a tank.


  • #7
    4 years ago
    FiresparksFiresparks Posts: 373

    t34/76:

    the new coaxial and hull are too powerful.

    after calculating their dps, I think the coaxial and hull mg on the t34/76 needs to be nerf a bit.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xHuOW76BClAkbPMZE8N0c9g_sJgwCu9Qzk6ugQTIDmg/edit?usp=sharing

    according to my calculation, the combined dps on the hull and coaxial on the t34/76 is almost as high as the hull+coaxial+pintle on the panzer4. I would nerf the hull and coaxial closer to around panzer4.

  • #8
    4 years ago
    LeoLeo Posts: 74
    edited April 2016

    I played two factions until now (okw and soviet- 4 hours or something)-

    My thoughts-

    So after playing many games using this mod, I can say mod is kinda odd but decent. I still feel that shrek should be given to sturmspios. Truck upgrade is okay for me and I enjoyed soviet after so much time. 3 penal squads with upgrade can tear apart axis infantry but then again I am yet to see 3-4 volks with upgrade going up against 3 penals with upgrades.

    As I said, only downside for me is the removal of shreks. They are very important for axis. I would highly recommend Relic to give it to sturmspio.

  • #9
    4 years ago
    KithKith Posts: 144

    @Firesparks said:
    t34/76:

    the new coaxial and hull are too powerful.

    after calculating their dps, I think the coaxial and hull mg on the t34/76 needs to be nerf a bit.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xHuOW76BClAkbPMZE8N0c9g_sJgwCu9Qzk6ugQTIDmg/edit?usp=sharing

    according to my calculation, the combined dps on the hull and coaxial on the t34/76 is almost as high as the hull+coaxial+pintle on the panzer4. I would nerf the hull and coaxial closer to around panzer4.

    The Panzer IV's main gun has a higher fire rate, less scatter, and more penetration than the T34's. The Panzer IV also has more armor, clocking in at 180 as opposed to the T-34's 150. Considering that the Panzer IV can still outpace the T-34's MG damage by adding the MG turret, I don't see what the issue is.

  • #10
    4 years ago
    Reza RazorReza Razor Posts: 16
    edited April 2016

    Captain

    after 2 match I don't see any upgradable bazookas for this new Captain. I remember ugprading to bazooka was an option.

    Tank Hunter Infantry

    second which happend playing agains AI was AT infantry section of UKF was the same as regular IS of UKF when deployed!

  • #11
    4 years ago

    SOVIETS

    Penal Squad
    I appreciate their power up, expensive but effective, that could give an approach more offensive for soviets in early game.

    T34/76
    Finally it can fight infantry in decent way, is not powerfull as Panzer IV ok, but now it could be a good choice in mid game.

    IS-2
    I didn't see a great change in its offensive power against tanks, it was destroyed easilly in a fight vs a Panther, it need some boost in its penetration stats.

    OKW

    Volks
    Finally that annoyng shreks are removed, and that will require a micromanagement for OKW players, that lacking for them. This is, in my opinion, the main feature of this balance, that could give a more funny gameplay for all factions, avoiding blobs. For the add of STG 44 i appreciate that, it could give an aggressive boost for OKW.

    MG 42
    I don't see the sense of this add, since it is possible to recruit MG 34 in the main halftruck, maybe chang it with assault troops like assault grenadiers could be better.

    Medical and Repairing stations
    Pay for have medical and repairing stations improve micromanagement.

    OVERHAUL

    The main feauture of this balance is about OKW. Finally has a micromanagement, and the removing of shrecks could avoid the abuse of volks blobs, that kill the gameplay at the moment.

  • #12
    4 years ago
    Sob3rSob3r GreecePosts: 31
    edited April 2016

    @Detto4102 said:

    IS-2
    I didn't see a great change in its offensive power against tanks, it was destroyed easilly in a fight vs a Panther, it need some boost in its penetration stats.

    I think the IS-2 fires HE shells. If I'm right that means it cant have penetration?! Why fire HE shells anyways? Wellit's ok vs infantry. That is when it ever hits anything at all!!!

  • #13
    4 years ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    Soviets

    Penals
    I have played 3-4 matches as soviet and i can say penals are too strong , reduce their dmg per shot back to 8 and they will be fine. Right now they obliterate every other axis early game squad at any range.

    Their assault package should stay because Soviets don't have any infantry upgrades on their in tech tree and upgrade is not that overpowered.

  • #14
    4 years ago
    HeldentodHeldentod Posts: 1,537

    There's one thing I noticed: the Call-in MG-42 for the OKW has a much smaller arc than the regular one and takes a lot longer to pin enemies. Is that intentional? Because I don't see much of a reason to use it when you can get a cheaper MG-34 with a bigger arc.

  • #15
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited April 2016

    General
    Heavy armored Tanks

    With the new rear armor values most tank will penetrate rear armor reliably but also most AT weapon hitting the back side of the vehicle from max range will also penetrate.

    Imo the new values are too low and affect all weapon not only flanking tanks.

    Suggestions:

    • Increase the close penetration of medium tanks, this will give the desired affect without affecting other ATG weapons.

    mines
    Good changes
    AOE of mines probably needs to become bigger since they are less lethal in order to affect more squad members.

    The suppression seem to be too much for PMD-6 AP mines with a cost 7 MU and problematic with the S mine since it prevent squad member to hit multiple mines.

    suggestions:
    *Increase cost of PMD mine or remove suppression.
    *Remove sing from S minefields or make suppression after squad has step second of third mine.
    *Make MPD-6 AT mines work similar to prepatch USF mines causing engine damage when 2-3 mines are hit.

    Suppression
    A good change.

    suggestions:
    * Range reduction should not be % but a fixed value of 10-15, since most abilities have different ranges.

    • In addition smoke grenades should also be affected meaningfully. Even with the range reduction if they can still be used they will brake suppression. They should be completely unavailable if the units is suppressed.

    Hand Held AT weapons
    A good change.

    suggestions:
    Since the damage vs infantry is greatly reduced maybe add a fire on vehicles only option similar to tanks for these weapons.

    Snipers
    A good change

    Core Infantry/Small Team Weapon Spawn Points_
    This change does not affect all faction the same and it is very map related. For instance on map like rails and metal being able to spawn units from the bottom right base by building in an allied base makes quite a difference and it is not available for all factions.

  • #16
    4 years ago
    javabaljavabal Posts: 88
    edited April 2016

    The patch is fantastic, I am very happy with the changes.
    There is just something I would like to review, I play with USF and before Captain was an important tool against anti-tank, now that you take bazookas I think you should take another more important role. The lieutenant is good against infantry as it comes equipped with a gun, the Mayor good in indirect fire, and Captain? They would need to give any weapon or ability to be very useful as a unit.

  • #17
    4 years ago
    Sob3rSob3r GreecePosts: 31

    @Maelstrom said:

    British

    Universal Carrier is still 210MP and not 260MP as described in mod release notes!

    I think that change was in miragefla mod. Not in the official balance patch tho.

  • #18
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited April 2016

    SOVIETS

    T-34/76
    The unit is simply over-buffed.

    Mg buffs as commented by firespark at post 9.

    Main gun reload
    a +11% buff seem to much especially since the unit gains reload with veterancy.

    Cost reduction being cheaper than Ostwind and valentine price the unit is clearly over performing.

    T4 is not actually to expensive to built. T4 comes at the same cost as OKW T3 with a cost of (SU 640MP/165FU) (OKW 600MP/165FU) and PZ IV with a cost of 360/160 can not keep against T-34/76.

    To make thing even worse T-34/76 being cheap allow it to be used for ram even if lost the enemy will not be able to replace his armor as fast as T-34/76.

    Suggestions:
    Instead of quadruple buff to the unit change vet 1 ability, increase close penetration and fix ram (heavy crush while ramming, ram improving with veterancy)

    SU-85
    The accuracy buff unnecessary. With the suggested value (0.05/0.0375/0.25 typo far value should be 0.025) it has 20% more accuracy than stug at same range and have 88% chance to hit vs Brumbar at range 60 96% chance to hit vs Panther 100% on anything heavier.

    Penetration buff is way to high becoming even worse at vet 2, chance to penetrate vs Panther at range 60 68% at vet 2 89%, chance to penetrate vs Tiger at range 60 73% at vet 2 95%, chance to penetrate vs King Tiger at range 60 59% at vet 2 76%.

    Cost. The unit's price is too low since it cheaper than the JP although it is better at more expensive heavy tanks.

    **Suggestion: **
    "Trucking" and "focused sight" should be removed from the unit. The unit is far too powerful at Range 60 to be able to spot for itself. Accuracy changes should be reverted. Cost should go up.

    IS-2
    With less scatter it should also get less AOE.

    Trip wire flare mine
    it can be used to detonate satchel charges.

    **Suggestion: **
    Greatly reduce time to built, remove damage add stun and make flare last longer.

    Penal Battalion
    Penal battalion clearly over perform. When tested a vet 3 Penal wiped out Vet 3 lmg gren at range 35 and heavy cover losing 1-2 models, a vet 3 Penal with 2 vicker K wiped out a vet 5 LMG ober at range 35 and heavy cover. In game I had a vet 3 Penal battalion by minute 7.

    The weapon although of carbine profile does too much damage and has too much accuracy. thing become even worse with veterancy bonuses and abilities.

    SVT accuracy the proposed number make it have better accuracy that g43 (63.30% 48.30% 42.60%) which is limited to half the sqaud. and has Mu cost. To make things even worse veterancy bonuses and "Last man" kick in a vet 3 Penal (1.31.3) with 3 members (1.041.04*1.04) would have a accuracy of ( 1.330714112 1.235663104 0.855459072) making the weapon way to accurate and able to bypass target size cover modifiers at some ranges....

    It's DPS profile seem to be good at all ranges making relative positioning rather pointless, and to make things even worse Penal can actually chose the distance they want to fight at vet 2 with ourah.

    Price and reinforce cost has minimal affect since it can be bypassed by merging.

    The "assault Package" upgrade is actually not worth it since it make the unit good only at range 15-20 while the SVT Penal about 50% better at ranges over 20.

    suggestion:

    Choose a distance where Penal would perform optimal and give them a appropriate weapon, if designed for close give them PPsh, if for mid give them SVT with a new mid profile, if for far give them bolt action, relative positioning should be make a difference when using Penals.

    Fix veterancy bonuses to fit unit's optimal range.

    Remove ourah (unless designed for close combat) and satchel (give it tech cost or combine it with a weapon upgrade).

    Reconsider weapon upgrade to better fit role.

    Change vet ability to either improve defense or offense but not both

    Redesign SVT weapon to follow carbine weapon profile.

  • #19
    4 years ago
    SHB2099SHB2099 Posts: 20
    1. AI Bug:The British Expert CPU can't use the Sexton correctly,AI doesn't use it as an indirect-artillery-fire,but always use it as a normal front-line tank! I never see AI use Sexton fire just one shell(except in some mods,like "all units mod",the AI in those mods can use Sexton correctly.)But US Forces Expert AI can use Priest as an indirect-artillery properly.Now,AI only use Sexton as a victim!That is so disappoint me!
    2. About OKW:In balance preview mod,all factions except OKW have thier own personal anti-tank weapon,such as PIAT,Bazooka,PTRS-41,Panzershrek (in Wehrmacht),I urge Relic to bring Panzershrek back to OKW,the reasons are listed below:
      I think Panzershrek can increase Strategic Diversity,because infantry with personal anti-tank weapon can move faster than anti-tank gun team,which result in players often use infantry with personal anti-tank package to flank the enemy vehicles which are already hurt from friendly anti-tank gun fire, but survived when enemy vehicles reverse move out from our friendly anti-tank gun's firing area,and because of anti-tank gun's low moving speed,they are too slow to persue and attack enemy fugitive vehicles,and if at this time,players don't have a tank to follow up enemy's injured vehicles but still want to kill enemy's wounded vehicle,the only choice is using infantry with personal anti-tank weapon or imprecise artillery.You may say you can use panzerfaust with some cost of munitions,but panzershrek won't need any extra cost once you have owned it with some one-off cost and I prefer to focus on route-choice strategy when persue the enemy but not focus on munition's amount! If OKW lose their panzershrek,it will be so unfair to OKW and break the game balance seriously because all factions except OKW have their own free-cost using of personal anti-tank weapons.Use panzershrek to flank enemy vehicles can give players much funny time and it can show the courage of infantry when a man bravely against an enemy unit which more powerful than himself and this is in line with the theme of Company of Heroes,because only brave units who can get up the courage to fight against enemy which are more powerful than themselves can be called "Heroes"! I play COH2 as OKW previously,the Volksgrenadier blobbing never occurs to me,because different players have various strategy or habit in mind when play as the same faction.I think when a game proceed to later stage,infantry is always more vulnerable and weaker than tanks because infantry are too easy to be suppressed from not only HMG fire,but also any mines explosive , artillery or airplane strafing-run,and when they are suppressed for longer time,they can't fire thier weapon and just wait to die if not retreat.Infantry's moving speed is much lower than tanks,and infantry is easy to suffer from lose a whole squad.The reasons above result in I never let Volksgrenadier blobbing happen.I think the best choice or the best game is give all options to players,and just let players to choose,to create.This can take example by looking at Spearhead mod,Versus mod,All units mod,etc.I mean you can add both STG44 and Panzershrek upgrade options to one unit like Volksgrenadier,and just leave it to players to choose which upgrade they want to use as their own habit.And I think if one squad could upgrade and equip various of weapons at the same time is much better.The best game is which can give the maximum degree of freedom to players without violating corporation's own profit.
    3. I hope OKW's kubelwagen can perform as a HMG team.Because if all factions use infantry as HMG team,it will decrease Strategic Diversity and fun of game.But if kubelwagen could perform as a HMG team will solve the problem.But although if the kubelwagen can perform as a HMG team,I still want OKW can spawn MG34 or MG42 infantry team at base buildings just because more unit spawn options there are,more better the game is.By the way,don't you think the produce-select area of each base buildings are so empty?In fact,there are various kinds of units or weapons in WW2 history,but look at present COH2's available units at base buildings,each building have only a few available units to select to produce while there are total eleven slot position at base building produce area,but often 5 to 7 slots of them are empty!Again,the best game is which can give the maximum degree of freedom to players without violating corporation's own profit.
  • #20
    4 years ago
    FiresparksFiresparks Posts: 373

    @Kith said:

    @Firesparks said:
    t34/76:

    the new coaxial and hull are too powerful.

    after calculating their dps, I think the coaxial and hull mg on the t34/76 needs to be nerf a bit.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xHuOW76BClAkbPMZE8N0c9g_sJgwCu9Qzk6ugQTIDmg/edit?usp=sharing

    according to my calculation, the combined dps on the hull and coaxial on the t34/76 is almost as high as the hull+coaxial+pintle on the panzer4. I would nerf the hull and coaxial closer to around panzer4.

    The Panzer IV's main gun has a higher fire rate, less scatter, and more penetration than the T34's. The Panzer IV also has more armor, clocking in at 180 as opposed to the T-34's 150. Considering that the Panzer IV can still outpace the T-34's MG damage by adding the MG turret, I don't see what the issue is.

    the panzer 4 is significantly more expensive.

  • #21
    4 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    I think the M2 mortar might be a bit too good actually. It's not so much what it does to units garrisoned and such. It's rather to units in the open actually fighting the Americans. It can very early on and for a low cost give the Americans quite the edge there. Throw in the smoke and you can quickly neutralize MGs from quite a distance.

    It can thusly give the Americans who already have the advantage in the early game a bit of a further edge.

    So i think it needs to require a small sum of resources to unlock really. Or be made more expensive. But say 100 manpower and 10 fuel. Nothing much. But just enough to stall it a bit or make it more of a choice.

  • #22
    4 years ago

    @ImperialDane said:
    I think the M2 mortar might be a bit too good actually. It's not so much what it does to units garrisoned and such. It's rather to units in the open actually fighting the Americans. It can very early on and for a low cost give the Americans quite the edge there. Throw in the smoke and you can quickly neutralize MGs from quite a distance.

    It can thusly give the Americans who already have the advantage in the early game a bit of a further edge.

    So i think it needs to require a small sum of resources to unlock really. Or be made more expensive. But say 100 manpower and 10 fuel. Nothing much. But just enough to stall it a bit or make it more of a choice.

    I haven't tested the USF much since the preview, so I don't know how the mortar preforms yet. If you're worried about it giving the USF too much of an early advantage though then maybe it would be wise to go the same route as with the new OKW MG34. Keep it in tier 0 and unlock it once the Lieutenant/Captain is researched. At the very least it would delay the mortar entry by a few minutes.

  • #23
    4 years ago
    Cpt. BlitzCpt. Blitz Posts: 729

    Can you automatch against human players with the mod?

  • #24
    4 years ago

    I think this patch is ok, but there's few problems maybe u guys should consider. 1. u nerf all campus HT's side armor, that's fine, but why except British? 2. Soviet sniper got 2 guys a group, which means they got the highest survive possibility than others. and there's no reason increase their healthy. 3. penal troops are so op in this mod, 3 penal troops can kill 2 HMG42, are u guys sure they are penal troops not guards? 4. the Tripwire mines, these things got very small spaces required, especially now they got 20 damage to infantries, so if I put 4 of them together at the door of a building, it can absolutely kill any infantry who came out from the building. I hope u can consider these problems, and I played COH2 for over 1000 hours, and my rank in 1v1 is 32, so hope my advises can help u to improve the balance of this game we love

  • #25
    4 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    @DjDrowsyBear said:

    @ImperialDane said:
    I think the M2 mortar might be a bit too good actually. It's not so much what it does to units garrisoned and such. It's rather to units in the open actually fighting the Americans. It can very early on and for a low cost give the Americans quite the edge there. Throw in the smoke and you can quickly neutralize MGs from quite a distance.

    It can thusly give the Americans who already have the advantage in the early game a bit of a further edge.

    So i think it needs to require a small sum of resources to unlock really. Or be made more expensive. But say 100 manpower and 10 fuel. Nothing much. But just enough to stall it a bit or make it more of a choice.

    I haven't tested the USF much since the preview, so I don't know how the mortar preforms yet. If you're worried about it giving the USF too much of an early advantage though then maybe it would be wise to go the same route as with the new OKW MG34. Keep it in tier 0 and unlock it once the Lieutenant/Captain is researched. At the very least it would delay the mortar entry by a few minutes.

    Well it is why i suggested it as a small upgrade. But that could work as well.

  • #26
    4 years ago
    Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin

    For any bugs you find while playing the Balance Preview Mod, please report them in the Balance Preview Mod Bug Reporting thread.

  • #27
    4 years ago

    The update was overall very nice. I tried both USF and GBF and it was quite satisfying. The addition of the mortar to the USF made them much more effective while combating MGs, which now both Wehrmacht and OKW have. It also help remove the effect of the frag grenade nerf. it also improved USF's ability to fight in urban areas and put pressure on buildings. The increase of penetration of the M2HB made it very effective against wheeled vehicles, which really do increase the value of Lieutenant, and is a good counter to armoured cars. Personally I don't understand the decision to remove both bazookas from the Captain. Leaving him with one bazooka should be enough to decrease Captain's capability to counter early armour to an extent that doesn't make him useless. The removed bazooka should create a weapon slot where he could grab anything from the weapons rack. I don't agree with the decision to remove immunity from suppression. it would also be quite late game when the Captain is vetted up to such level, there will most likely be heavy armour support from the German players. If it breakes the suppression or pin, but there are more than one MG shooting and quickly suppress them again, they will be very easy targets for heavy armour and would make the game more of a war of positions. The most valueable ability of the Major is still the Recon and the Forward retreat point, it might be better if the shells fire much more quickly, perhaps landing in 3 seconds, but are less powerful, like mortar shells but still deals some amount of damage to armour.

    For GBF, the boost in man power did help a little, and is quite balanced. The increase to the flare range significantly helps, and let the British truly utilize their best weapon, the powerful 25pdr. The adjustment to the counter barrage is fine, but a slight reduce of scatter for all 25 pdr abilities would significantly improve the quality of life. I feel like the increase of CP of the Land Mattress is too much. The increase of 1 CP should be enough, since the land mattress have quite of big scatter and a slower fire rate compared to most other rocket artillery. The fact that its dragged around by soldiers makes it a little too vulnerable and should be compensated with a lower CP. Now on to the Firefly. The fire rate for the Firefly is still somewhat low. It is much slower than I expected, compared to the significant decrease of damage made to the tulips. Using the tulips alone makes the GBF too dependent on munitions, and makes the Firefly quite ineffective for its cost.

    This patch is very nice overall, if the small adjustments were made I believe it would be much better.

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