[USF] [ALL][81mm mortar]

#1
3 years ago

The 81mm mortar is over performing. It also mess with faction design.

USF went from having weaker support weapon to having the best mortar in the game coming earlier than any other mortar.

81mm has more range less scatter and better vet bonuses then other mortar and it only cost 20MP more. The mortar of should either be nerfed or delayed or other aspects of USF game should be nerfed like the far DPS of riflemen, the smoke grenades the forward retreat point and the movable healing reinforcing points.

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Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    Also think it's OP, the small model was better. Main reason to brig the mortar should be to smoke. But this artillery is to strong for US fraction design.
  • #4
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    @Vipper said:
    The 81mm mortar is over performing. It also mess with faction design.

    USF went from having weaker support weapon to having the best mortar in the game coming earlier than any other mortar.

    81mm has more range less scatter and better vet bonuses then other mortar and it only cost 20MP more. The mortar of should either be nerfed or delayed or other aspects of USF game should be nerfed like the far DPS of riflemen, the smoke grenades the forward retreat point and the movable healing reinforcing points.

    whats the problem in it coming earlier than other mortars?

    wehrmacht has MGs coming earlier than other MGs as well which also, werent like this always.

    whether its over performing i cannot say, but the USF certainly need the mortar to be less grenade and smoke dependant versus MG spams and what not.

    the mortar for tier 0 was sorely needed

  • #5
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited June 2016

    @Beardedragon said:
    whats the problem in it coming earlier than other mortars?

    It means it comes at same time as wer HMG and earlier than OKW HMG. If a hard counter of unit arrive at say time or earlier than the unit itself then, in most case, that unit has less time to be a good investment.

    but the USF certainly need the mortar to be less grenade and smoke dependant versus MG spams and what not.

    And since the USF now have a mortar their infantry do not have to be so strong and versatile as they were.

  • #6
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    whats the problem in it coming earlier than other mortars?

    It means it comes at same time as wer HMG and earlier than OKW HMG. If a hard counter of unit arrive at say time or earlier than the unit itself then, in most case, that unit has less time to be a good investment.

    but the USF certainly need the mortar to be less grenade and smoke dependant versus MG spams and what not.

    And since the USF now have a mortar their infantry do not have to be so strong and versatile as they were.

    how else would you give the USF faction a mortar if not by tier 0? it takes like 50 fuel to even go the cheapest of the two tiers, and bunkers completely destroys USF in the early game because they have nothing that can remove them before teching up.

    MGs also completely destroys USF if one doesnt tech grenades.

    And if USF wants to use MGs themselves, they would have to tech up, meaning their MG already has close to no time at all to be any sort of good investment. i mean by the time USF even gets one MG, you have a ton of counter units up.

    something tells me when things are balanced out it will be fine. its either a mortar unit or move the MG to the tier 0, but that wouldnt help them against bunkers or structures.

  • #7
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    It is simply too good + riflemen. Massive blobs (US) and good early mortar is massiv. I understand they need one, but more decent because they get the howitzer too.
  • #8
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    @Widerstreit said:
    It is simply too good + riflemen. Massive blobs (US) and good early mortar is massiv. I understand they need one, but more decent because they get the howitzer too.

    seems fine with me. i have yet to try the new mortar out, hence why i cant say if its over performing though listening to some it sounds like it might.

    but they most certainly need a mortar unit of some sort for tier 0, even if its worse.

  • #9
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    Maybe less fire-rate or -5 range?
  • #10
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited June 2016

    @Widerstreit said:
    Maybe less fire-rate or -5 range?

    no idea. as i said i have no idea how it performs. i will have to try it later today. i can only argue for the mortar in terms of what USF needed in general, not balance related things in terms of numbers of models, damage, accuracy etc.

    so ill have to get back to you on that one

  • #11
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    US really fit good if you set some mines and build two mortars. They fit better than Ost now, that's my opinion.

    At least I really like the mortar for US, only the clone is annoying. Other stats would be cool.
  • #12
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited June 2016

    @Widerstreit said:
    US really fit good if you set some mines and build two mortars. They fit better than Ost now, that's my opinion.

    At least I really like the mortar for US, only the clone is annoying. Other stats would be cool.

    USF cant plant mines only the commander with assault engineers can.
    cant remember if other commanders can but regardless, they cant plant mines by stock.

  • #13
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited June 2016
    Yea, I mean with this commander they are amazing. Try it. ^^

    Early game is over for Wehrmacht. Only long range inf (Grens) and MG42 = both will be eaten by 81mm. PnzGr will be eaten by US riflemen and 222 will be destroyed by mines because Ost pio will be eaten by rifleman too before you find all mines.

    Yes.

    Edit: I only think that US mortar maybe needs -5 range, so Ost can counter it with their own mortar. Americans will stay able to counter MGs and support.
  • #14
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    something tells me when things are balanced out it will be fine. its either a mortar unit or move the MG to the tier 0, but that wouldnt help them against bunkers or structures.

    1) USF might need a mortar or not (stat indicate that they where doing fine without it) but they certainly did not need the best mortar in the game.
    2) If you have not tested it test it and post after testing it.
    3) Since they do have a mortar their infantry should probable be toned down a bit.

  • #15
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited June 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    something tells me when things are balanced out it will be fine. its either a mortar unit or move the MG to the tier 0, but that wouldnt help them against bunkers or structures.

    1) USF might need a mortar or not (stat indicate that they where doing fine without it) but they certainly did not need the best mortar in the game.
    2) If you have not tested it test it and post after testing it.
    3) Since they do have a mortar their infantry should probable be toned down a bit.

    1) i did not say they needed the best mortar in the game
    2) i will
    3) they have no artillery units (rocket truck, panzerwerfer etc) so they have no hard blob counter except for their riflemen. a sherman with heat shells hardly does what the panzerwerfer or rocket truck can do, nor can the aoe stuat thingie do the same (it probably just dies anyway)

    if the callilope was stock, sure tone down the infantrymen but it isnt.

  • #16
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    3) they have no artillery units (rocket truck, panzerwerfer etc) so they have no hard blob counter except for their riflemen. a sherman with heat shells hardly does what the panzerwerfer .....

    Drifting of topic this is about the 81mm mortar. (actually USF have plenty of counter to blobs both stock an doctrinal but will leave it for another thread....)

  • #17
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    So, let's say 81mm is a kind of too good? ;)
  • #18
    3 years ago
    kingdun3284kingdun32… Posts: 1,090
    edited June 2016
    [removed] The stat of usf mortar is exactly a copy from ost mortar. If it was op, then the ost one would be the same. USF needs non doctrinal to counter garrisoned unit. As OKW got special care for having flame nade, there is no reason for leaving USF behind. For those againsting the usf mortar, try to deal with garrisoned mg42 spam at the city side of lenna forest in first five minute without teching up to LT or CT tier.
  • #19
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited June 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    3) they have no artillery units (rocket truck, panzerwerfer etc) so they have no hard blob counter except for their riflemen. a sherman with heat shells hardly does what the panzerwerfer .....

    Drifting of topic this is about the 81mm mortar. (actually USF have plenty of counter to blobs both stock an doctrinal but will leave it for another thread....)

    it actually was ON topic since you want to tone down the riflemens performance for receiving a mortar unit. i dont want to tone down riflemen performance because they have no artillery unit and they cant even plant mines.

    @Widerstreit said:
    So, let's say 81mm is a kind of too good? ;)

    if its too good, then nerf it. as someone probably mentioned already, USF is meant to have a mortar unit,but they are not all about defense, they are about utility. their mortars arent meant to smash wehr ones, i agree with that.

    just a small decent early game one.

  • #20
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited June 2016
    They have better line infantry than Ost. That is why it is op. And Ostheer is still behind.

    Riflemen are fine.
  • #21
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited June 2016

    @Widerstreit said:
    They have better line infantry than Ost. That is why it is op. And Ostheer is still behind.

    they have better infantry because axis have stronger tanks, access to artillery and can mine entire areas.

    USF doesnt and cannot.

    but as i said, the USF mortar isnt meant to beat wehr one nor out range it if it does. its meant to be decent, not directly good.

  • #22
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    Riflemen are fine, like them. Simply the mortar is to good for their aggressive gaming style of their inf.

    First time this game is something being balanced. Nerf 81mm's range and it will be fine.
  • #23
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,039

    If you nerf the mortar we're just going to go back to RM x 4 -> tech.

    Reduce RM effectiveness now that they have indirect fire support and smoke with no fuel requirement.

  • #24
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    I think a range reductions would be very decent. Also a longer reload would be good. So they have to be played more offensive and dangerous. Also smoke needs longer to be full set.
  • #25
    3 years ago
    VutherVuther Posts: 2,129

    @Lazarus said:
    If you nerf the mortar we're just going to go back to RM x 4 -> tech.

    Reduce RM effectiveness now that they have indirect fire support and smoke with no fuel requirement.

    Actually, apparently just the mortar itself is definitely nuts. https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know/post/545404

  • #26
    3 years ago
    whitesky00whitesky00 Posts: 407

    I can attest to the mortar being OP. I get between 20-40 kills per game with just 1 mortar unit in team games. The weapons needs range reduction, reload time increase, and possibly scatter increase. The mortar should be a more defensive unit that supports the riflemen with smoke and to displace weapon teams like mgs. However, it is just hitting and killing everything. I expect a hotfix for it soon. If you read the link from Vuther, you will see there are plenty of other bugs as well such as 30 pop cap B4 and vet destroying new bonuses in the patch.

  • #27
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    There seems like a problem right now.
    1. If we revert the buffs/additions to support weapons, rifle spam will be the only viable strategy
    2. If we nerf riflemen, then the strong infantry that's the defining point of the USF will be dulled and the factions will become sameier.

    I'm not sure how to square this circle.

  • #28
    3 years ago

    As "Cruzz" mentioned at coh.org on 21.06.:

    "USF 81mm mortar (also affects mortar HT) has 106 range (same as 120mm), fastest firing mortar in the game with a 1.6 sec advantage over ostheer one, and about half the scatter of any other mortar in the game plus scatter reduction veterancy at vet1 and vet2."

    As a T0 mortar... WOW!

  • #29
    3 years ago
    whitesky00whitesky00 Posts: 407

    well, this is not reverting a buff since the mortar never existed to begin with. my 1 mortar does more damage and as many kills as 2 riflemen squads throughout the game. that's pretty OP. It just needs to be put in line with soviet mortar or OST mortar at best in terms of above mentioned variables.

  • #30
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    It seems like it could use a nerf, but it definitely needs to stay, because otherwise rifle-spam is the only viable us tactic.

  • #31
    3 years ago
    Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin

    The mortar was launched was some bugs that are making it over-perform. It is being looked into and will be patched this week.

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