Do you think the Pak Howitzer is still worth it?

#1
3 years ago
WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
edited June 2016 in General Discussion

I'm having a hard time deciding if I'm going to be using the pak after the addition of the USF mortar.

Part of me says yes because the white phosphorous and HE barrage but at the same time the Pak Howitzer is a large commitment because it needs to be using barrage to really hit things and it requires manual retreat.

Even then, the autofire mortar will probably still rack up higher kill counts then a Pak Howitzer.

What do you guys think?

Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago

    I'd only occasionally use the pak howitzer if my early game went well as it requires teching however, now there is mortar at T1 I'll almost never use pak howitzers again. If I want phosphorus then I'll inf company and get the mortar truck but that's doctrinal.

  • #3
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    Mortar will get nerved, only a question of time.
  • #4
    3 years ago
    y03y03 Posts: 1,075
    Yeah, thats definitely a problem that they didn't see coming.
  • #5
    3 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    What is a motor?
  • #6
    3 years ago
    y03y03 Posts: 1,075
    A motor is a mortar.
  • #7
    3 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited June 2016

    @pablonano said:
    What is a motor?

    You're trying to hard.

  • #8
    3 years ago
    ofieldofield Posts: 630

    Until mortar gets nerfed, the m1 has to stay in oblivion.

  • #9
    3 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153

    please for the community and for ur own sanity, don't use the USF mortar. It just makes no sense and I honestly think it's lackluster in USF's unit composition.

    USF has a strong early game since RM deal insane amounts of dmg at close and midclose range and they are countered only by sturms in a 1v1 situation. If you try to fight it with grens or volks, they are going to need to be at least 2 squads because RM will try to close in and if the axis player trys to kite. grens and volks on the move don't perform that well and thus will lose. Mortar just adds one more extra pain in the ass for the axis player during the early game and it's not like the mortars are even balanced. They over perform heavily too.

    RMs have good anti infantry power in the early game, and both axis factions have no real early game advantage against USF. WM has grens and pios, both which get ripped by RMs. And OKW has volks, kubels, and sturms, which with the right micro, working together might be able to scare away RMs but really volks get ripped, kubels are not as effective and sturms are the only unit that wins against RMs, That's one unit, IDK about double sturm opening but yea. Really, giving them the mortar for a early game start is not really a good idea at all, and even worse if they are going to be overperforming like crazy. If USF mortars actually underperformed it might be a good idea but who really wants a mortar that would perform worst than a soviet mortar. I say this because I would suppose that the correct balance would be to make them so because everyone knows that RM are better than cons. And as I said before, giving a faction with good basic inf that perform extremely well in the early game that plays against scaling based, bad early game inf factions a good mortar for the early game is not really a good idea even if it doesn't really overperform in the first place.

    As for Howies, they seem good, AOE seems good on them and accuracy seems above average too. This is also a reason why I think that mortars are lackluster, even if balanced accordingly. But I have to admit that against OKW might be a good idea since OKW might open with double sturms. But really, this is the only opening I might agree to the mortar. But to me this almost even sounds like asking for the maxim for t1. t1 (USF) deals with inf in a different way, giving the sov t1 maxims (mortars) is adding a method of solving a problem that has been already solved within the t1 tech tree itself, which is penals. Its like solving the problem twice. But to be honest penal "nerf" in cost and deploy time feel a little extreme, which is not the case for RMs. And if you are going to talk about the dshk, come on USF has the halftracks. Just imagine how OP it would be to have maxims buffed to be better than dshks with penals. I mean I guess you could use the normal maxim with penals, but teching costs are quite significant.

    sry for going off tangent, but anyway pack howie seems fine and really if it actually reflected the cost difference between the mortar and the howie, I would expect a code which doesn't involve RNG and dmg but something that straight out takes HP out of the receiving squad as it's way of doing dmg, no accuracy involved, no travel time, no actual shell. pure HP removal.

  • #10
    3 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    Same question I asked when I first saw the notes. Why bother with pack howitzer when you have mortar? And grossly bugged as well?

    Should just make LT's teching occur earlier, either less fuel cost (though that brings problems with M20 and AA Halftrack fuel cost and timing), or simply speeding up the tech time. Or maybe even limit them to either LT or CPT tier?

    End of the day though, I think Relic just added in a scrapped unit just to squeeze more life into the game. It got stale so they threw mortar in for more opening meta.

  • #11
    3 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153
    I meant mortar half track lol
  • #12
    3 years ago
    y03y03 Posts: 1,075
    Oh yeah, now the mortar halftrack is also practically pointless. WTF relic.
    I remember someone suggesting something about a short range WP nade for rear echelons for some form of anti infantry clearing.
    Or maybe just a simple smoke nade.
  • #13
    3 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153

    It just makes no sense now, they have 3 mortars now. the pack howie is basically a mortar

  • #14
    3 years ago

    Literally the only reason this is even a conversation is because the USF mortar is "bugged" with an absurdly high rate of fire and accuracy. Wait for it to be nerfed and then this is a relevant question. In the meantime you have two options as USF: use the broken weapon (mortar) or use the still good (but not broken) howitzer. The howitzer has no place in the USF army currently due to the performance of the mortar, which will drop soon.

  • #15
    3 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited July 2016

    @y03 said:
    Oh yeah, now the mortar halftrack is also practically pointless. WTF relic.

    It has stock white phos rounds which is always nice. The 40FU cost is the largest deterrent.

  • #16
    3 years ago
    UlisehUliseh Posts: 80

    Pack howi was one of my fav units in the game, when it worked it was awesome (when was able to supress infantry), i would love to play with it again but with the current meta you will need to spent those MP in better units to survive.

    Also while i agree that mortar is kinda OP now i wish it doesn't get overnerfed, USF gameplay was gardening awful back when Axis players could easily lock an area with a MG until T2-T3 because lets be honest.... Smoke is unviable as a frequent counter to this, your minutions reserves will bankcrupt and will be easy GG for the axis player with better equipped units late game.

  • #17
    3 years ago

    @Uliseh
    I never had any problems with USF gameplay, they remain my 2nd favorite faction though I refuse to use the mortar in its current state. They can have access to an early game mortar the same way that the Soviets and Wehrmacht do, and have a comparable stats to those two weapons. The USF mortar outperforms other weapons in its class in droves. Can USF have a mortar? Sure, why not, but the current mortar is bad for the game.

  • #18
    3 years ago
    y03y03 Posts: 1,075
    The current mortar is only bad because I think it's still bugged.
    The only reason why the Pak still exists is it's HEAT rounds at vet 2 , slightly further range and other somewhat superior statistics.
    The mortar is currently only for more close range indirect better support.
  • #19
    3 years ago
    SilleSille Posts: 70

    i never liked the pack it never hits anything for me and it has no aoe

  • #20
    3 years ago
    QuesocitoQuesocito Posts: 128

    pak is hardly used now, since mortar is better in almost every way, unless they heavily nerf the mort, pak still wont be used.. (even after the bug is removed)

    so no i dont think the pak is worth it. i used to enjoy using the pak, but now why should i when there's morts?

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