[USF/UKF] [All] - Serious double weapon upgrade blobs.

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Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 1,985
    edited November 2016

    Im sorry, but that scenario is not very likely to happen. Chances are you start firing with the FHT, your opponent just ignores the flames and shoots your FHT to smithereens. Bazookas has a higher range than the FHT. I fail to see how the Halftrack that can take 3 hit before blowing up is supposed to counter a blob like this.

    If you defend a place with 1 FHT and an AT gun, all the enemy is going to need is an AT gun himself and your impenetrable defence barrier suffers spontaneous existence failure.

  • #33
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @Hingie said:
    Im sorry, but that scenario is not very likely to happen. Chances are you start firing with the FHT, your opponent just ignores the flames and shoots your FHT to smithereens. Bazookas has a higher range than the FHT. I fail to see how the Halftrack that can take 3 hit before blowing up is supposed to counter a blob like this.

    If you defend a place with 1 FHT and an AT gun, all the enemy is going to need is an AT gun himself and your impenetrable defence barrier suffers spontaneous existence failure.

    im fairly confident it takes more than 3 bazooka hits given they dont deal the same damage as AT guns. its more like 4 or so.

    and i dont defend areas with one AT gun and a FHT. i defend places with mortars and MGs too. the flamehalftrack just deal a lot more damage in a bigger area than the soviet halftrack so it compliments my defenses better. i dont need more suppression, i have MGs for that or bunkers.

    and it is not an unlikely scenario that you swoop in after they have fired their bazookas, fire on them for a second and reverse gear back. yea you might get hit by a bazooka, but you are rarely going to die from it as no one uses 3 stacks of bazooka infantry and even if they did, its still all about timing and scouting ahead.

    you dont die from getting hit by the first salvo of bazooka shots, so you are free to back off after the first flames hit. just reverse gear in to your pioneers embracing arms for a field repair.

    a well placed flame halftrack can destroy ones mid game completely if done properly. you obviously scout ahead first with either grens or something else. you dont run in with this thing alone.

  • #34
    2 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 1,985
    edited November 2016

    The FHT has 320 HP. Means the 4th hit destroys it. Dude, how about checking some stats? M;eaning the enemy doesnt need 4 stacks of bazooka infantry... they need 4 Bazookas spread across a blob. Thats not that uncommon.

    Supression helps vs. blobs alot better. Flames do more damage, but that is not enough to stop a true blob. Especially as the weapons the blob will have to counter armour have a HIGHER range than the vehicle you want to counter them with. Yeah, sure, driving in to shoot at the blob once then backpeddaling will work, but requires an ungodly amount of timing and micro. If one detail goes awry, your FHT is toast. Bazookas fire every 5.75 seconds. The margin of error between the Bazooka being fired, the FHT approaching, halting, accelerating in reverse and leaving the Bazooka range is very slim. That is not something you can do vs skilled opponents. Not to mention it all falls apart as soon as your enemy has so much as a Clown Car or even M20 around, because the FHT does nothing to them.

    Your scenario is no practicable against any kind of non-braindead opponent. Short bursts of flames wont do much damage and youll have to retreat immediately or get blown up. Id rather have safe, long range supression that grinds a blobs advance to a halt than playing peek-a-boo with a FHT, always praying that I timed everything correctly and pathing wont fail me. Because one error and your mighty FHT goes poof

  • #35
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @Hingie said:
    The FHT has 320 HP. Means the 4th hit destroys it. Dude, how about checking some stats? M;eaning the enemy doesnt need 4 stacks of bazooka infantry... they need 4 Bazookas spread across a blob. Thats not that uncommon.

    Supression helps vs. blobs alot better. Flames do more damage, but that is not enough to stop a true blob. Especially as the weapons the blob will have to counter armour have a HIGHER range than the vehicle you want to counter them with. Yeah, sure, driving in to shoot at the blob once then backpeddaling will work, but requires an ungodly amount of timing and micro. If one detail goes awry, your FHT is toast. Bazookas fire every 5.75 seconds. The margin of error between the Bazooka being fired, the FHT approaching, halting, accelerating in reverse and leaving the Bazooka range is very slim. That is not something you can do vs skilled opponents. Not to mention it all falls apart as soon as your enemy has so much as a Clown Car or even M20 around, because the FHT does nothing to them.

    Your scenario is no practicable against any kind of non-braindead opponent. Short bursts of flames wont do much damage and youll have to retreat immediately or get blown up. Id rather have safe, long range supression that grinds a blobs advance to a halt than playing peek-a-boo with a FHT, always praying that I timed everything correctly and pathing wont fail me. Because one error and your mighty FHT goes poof

    me checking stats? i did. thats why i said it was 4 hits or so rather than 3. because i did check its hp. as long as some of their bazookas have been fired off before i reach, my unit does not die. thats all i need. you work this unit as an ambusher, or rather, you can if you dont use it defensively. and lets not forget that it excels against emplacements too and can fire through walls if you use attack ground, to get to that bofos hiding.

    yea it requires timing, but it works for me. in fact it works very very well for me. it cost 200 manpower and 30 fuel + 90 munitions. its not really the worst even if you fail.

    eventually the enemy gets my flame halftrack, and thats fair, but by the time it gets killed its usually served its purpose with plenty kills on the bar.

    and lets not forget that all the enemy has to do if you use the suppression halftrack is spread rather than blob. then you wont be suppressing a whole lot.

    and lets not forget how fast this thing can come out. its pretty limited how much AT one has at this time of time of the game. you basically speaking force your enemy adapt to an early game AI vehicle so you can basically set the pace.

  • #36
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited November 2016

    @Beardedragon said:
    if you time your attack properly you wont get hit by the bazookas, and in most cases, even getting hit by the bazookas wont necessarily kill you.
    furthermore you can close off gaps and cut off their way with flames.
    i dont know why people dislike the flame halftrack,...

    Again FHT has a range of 30, bazooka of 35 FHT is out-ranged by bazookas by 5.

    No one made a claim that FHT is bad but it only works in the start of the game when there are little AT weapons, very few people will replace their FHT once they lose it.

    A quad can hard counter blob even in late game because it out-ranges hand held AT weapon by 10 and suppress.

    Although FHT is fine unit it does not hard-counter infantry blobs as you original claimed unless those infantry do not have AT weapons/snares.

    If one has HMGs and manages to suppress the FHT is not that important because the blob will retreat before the FHT can do much damage and other units like mortars can deal with suppressed infantry...

  • #37
    2 years ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    if you time your attack properly you wont get hit by the bazookas, and in most cases, even getting hit by the bazookas wont necessarily kill you.
    furthermore you can close off gaps and cut off their way with flames.
    i dont know why people dislike the flame halftrack,...

    Again FHT has a range of 30, bazooka of 35 FHT is out-ranged by bazookas by 5.

    No one made a claim that FHT is bad but it only works in the start of the game when there are little AT weapons, very few people will replace their FHT once they lose it.

    A quad can hard counter blob even in late game because it out-ranges hand held AT weapon by 10 and suppress.

    Although FHT is fine unit it does not hard-counter infantry blobs as you claim unless those infantry do not have AT weapons/snares.

    oh yes this is true. i also dont rebuy the FHT after it dies. yea it works in the early game due to limited AT, but thats why im saying, it works really well at that because few things can actually butcher this unit fast during that pace, so it works very well.

    i dont know if it hard counters anything but it does put the hurt on the enemy when used properly.

    i also wouldnt say the soviet quad hard counters infantry either as it cant really hit all of them when they spread out anyway.

    in the early game i only really need the damage from the flames anyway, i dont really need suppression.

  • #38
    2 years ago

    i just forgot that this is a thread about double weapons so ill probably stop the halftrack conversation now. seems like its been a bit sidetracked.

  • #41
    2 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,302 mod

    In Relic's current balance mod linked above, it says:

    M1919 Light Machine Guns (INFANTRY SCALING)

    The ability to equip two M1919 LMG’s on a squad was resulting in over performing long range DPS for a squad as durable as Riflemen or as cheap as Rear Echelon.

    Can no longer be double equipped via weapon racks.

  • #42
    2 years ago

    @le12ro said:

    In Relic's current balance mod linked above, it says:

    M1919 Light Machine Guns (INFANTRY SCALING)

    The ability to equip two M1919 LMG’s on a squad was resulting in over performing long range DPS for a squad as durable as Riflemen or as cheap as Rear Echelon.

    Can no longer be double equipped via weapon racks.

    oooh. yea im looking through this balance thing right now. when was this released? because i swear a few days ago i started playing CoH2 again after like 2 months off and i saw the exact same balance posts by relic as there was when i left.

    i have never seen this balance post before. some of it looks interesting, others.. well. i dont like all of it.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,302 mod
    edited November 2016

    The thread about the upcoming balance changes and the mod is about an hour old, but in the works for a while.

  • #44
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    Step in the right direction, but why only 1919s.. there is NOT one reason to have double anything on already powerful AI sqads USF and UKF have ...it encourages blobing.

  • #45
    2 years ago

    @MisterBastard said:
    Step in the right direction, but why only 1919s.. there is NOT one reason to have double anything on already powerful AI sqads USF and UKF have ...it encourages blobing.

    does volks not receive double stgs ? and what about obers with upgraded weapons? not really rethorical question. i actually cant remember

  • #46
    2 years ago

    @Beardedragon said:

    @MisterBastard said:
    Step in the right direction, but why only 1919s.. there is NOT one reason to have double anything on already powerful AI sqads USF and UKF have ...it encourages blobing.

    does volks not receive double stgs ? and what about obers with upgraded weapons? not really rethorical question. i actually cant remember

    We are talking about LMGs not SMGs, semi, autos or assault rifles...

  • #47
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @MisterBastard said:

    @Beardedragon said:

    @MisterBastard said:
    Step in the right direction, but why only 1919s.. there is NOT one reason to have double anything on already powerful AI sqads USF and UKF have ...it encourages blobing.

    does volks not receive double stgs ? and what about obers with upgraded weapons? not really rethorical question. i actually cant remember

    We are talking about LMGs not SMGs, semi, autos or assault rifles...

    well i get that, but if you want brits and USF riflemen to only have one weapon they can carry, why should everyone else be allowed to carry several?

    for the USF faction that doesnt really make any sense as they're very infantry based. their front lines are exactly where their riflemen are. if they are gone, their battleline is gone.

  • #48
    2 years ago
    @Beardedragon vickers and bars are better than stgs iirc.
  • #49
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    @Beardedragon LMGs add susbstantially more firepower to basic rifle centric core units every faction gets, while SMGs, semi autos, and Assault rifles, add firpower BUT also change the playstyle and usage of units (look at cons and their doctrinal PPSH package).

  • #50
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    @Beardedragon vickers and bars are better than stgs iirc.

    yes im aware that they are, but are they so good that 1 BAR/bren still provides the same firepower as volksgrenadiers STGs?

    im asking because volks are cheaper, so volks with STGs arent supposed to be winning versus Riflemen even with 1 bar then.

    i dont even see why it should be "almost even" given you pay more for riflemen and they carry more weight than volks does.

    that one BAR that riflemen can then get, should still make them more powerful than Volksgrenadiers with STGs

  • #51
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    yes im aware that they are, but are they so good that 1 BAR/bren still provides the same firepower as volksgrenadiers STGs?

    instead of asking other why not check thing that are easy to check for yourself?
    http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=riflemen_bar_30_06_light_machine_gun_mp
    http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=volksgrenadier_mp44_smg_mp

  • #52
    2 years ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    yes im aware that they are, but are they so good that 1 BAR/bren still provides the same firepower as volksgrenadiers STGs?

    instead of asking other why not check thing that are easy to check for yourself?
    http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=riflemen_bar_30_06_light_machine_gun_mp
    http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=volksgrenadier_mp44_smg_mp

    because i dont know what half of these numbers mean

  • #53
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    because i dont know what half of these numbers mean

    start here
    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/231279/a-guide-to-d-p-s-basics#latest

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