Winter Balance Preview Mod Feedback

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  • #1112
    3 years ago
    I stopped playing bigger games as soviets. On most bigger maps you are forced to take the enemy on frontaly, you cant really catch stuff out of position like you can in 1v1. (Soviets are the worst at frontal attacks)

    This is as said by Farra because of the few smoke options they have, also the soviet mortars and katty are not as leathal as brits or usf counterparts or axis arty as well, this gives axis lots of time to reposition instead of retreating and thus keeping a stronger frontline throughout the game. You basicly need more arty then others to break the line.

    The late game is quite underwelming for soviets imo. If you go for a doctrine without t34 85s or IS-2s you will fall behind without question. Stock t4 will not deliver in big games imo.

    I mostly would be out of mp when late game starts because the immense rate wich infantry drop or get wiped and how fast the vehicles are taken out. Axis tanks hit really early indeed. Plenty of times it happend that the panthers hit the field shortly after su76s and p4s well before that.

    This is my overall experience with soviet in 3s and 4s.
  • #1113
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    If you want to discuss about Soviet viability in 3v3/4v4 (pre- or post-)WBP, please make a separate thread, and I'll join that thread to enumerate the reasons why Soviet late-game feels so lacklustre in those modes.

    Until then, I'll have to stick to my principles and not derail the thread :)

  • #1114
    3 years ago
    Ill go back in and see if things how things are.
  • #1115
    3 years ago

    @Mr_Smith said:
    If you want to discuss about Soviet viability in 3v3/4v4 (pre- or post-)WBP, please make a separate thread, and I'll join that thread to enumerate the reasons why Soviet late-game feels so lacklustre in those modes.

    Until then, I'll have to stick to my principles and not derail the thread :)

    Lol, why must we, if the soviets main infantry is going to be nerfed next patch!?

  • #1116
    3 years ago
    JLXJLX Ottawa, CanadaPosts: 29

    @Mr_Smith When a US Lieutenant is grouped with Rifleman, would it be possible to have the frag and smoke grenades be active in the command panel? At the moment, when grouped they're blank. I realize they are technically different units but they share the same 2 grenade abilities on the same keys. It's a little cumbersome to tab to the unit before throwing.

  • #1117
    3 years ago
    kingdun3284kingdun32… Posts: 1,090
    edited March 2017
    The reason why SU's late game in bigger team game sucks is simple. It's because the artillery of SU sucks. You need multiple(usually 3or above) katyuahas to fire at a single spot to be effective. But it get killed extremely easy by the air superiority of axis even at base. Not to mention most of the ost commander just get the utterly op sdb that can one shot a ML 152 without any effort with a relatively cheap price. However, there is only one commander from SU which have both reacon and il2 bombing strafe to do the same trick with an obviously higher price.
  • #1118
    3 years ago

    We approaching any definitive ETA's? Stormless said he suspected as early as this Wednesday on his stream (based on I don't know). @Mr_Smith please give the populace the sustenance needed to survive!

  • #1119
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @JLX said:
    @Mr_Smith When a US Lieutenant is grouped with Rifleman, would it be possible to have the frag and smoke grenades be active in the command panel? At the moment, when grouped they're blank. I realize they are technically different units but they share the same 2 grenade abilities on the same keys. It's a little cumbersome to tab to the unit before throwing.

    I have never looked into it, but I wouldn't be suprirsed if it were impossible to address this. Even if two units have access to the same ability/upgrade/building, selecting the two units at the same time will make the relevant buttons unavailable.

    For instance, all tanks of the same faction share the same prioritise vehicle ability. However, when you click through different types of tanks (e.g., Stug and a P4), the ability becomes invisible. Other examples include pioneer & Grenadier bunker-building.

    Could somebody verify that selecting (Elite Doctrine) Stormtroopers & Panzergrenadiers makes their G43 invisible?

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    We approaching any definitive ETA's? Stormless said he suspected as early as this Wednesday on his stream (based on I don't know). @Mr_Smith please give the populace the sustenance needed to survive!

    Very soon™.

  • #1120
    3 years ago
    Ok guys we can decipher Mr.Smiths trademarked answer:

    VERY - Adverb
    "used for emphasis.
    synonyms: extremely"

    SOON - Adverb
    "in or after a short time"

    Note the synonym "extremely" while also knowing the context of when winter ends and spring officially begins in the northern hemisphere.... It's gotta be this week sometime! Praise the lord!

    Future investigation for a particularly day this week would include averaging Relics past releases for official patches. Could be Saturday based on the balance iterations.
  • #1121
    3 years ago
    ScottishNomad1988ScottishN… Posts: 35
    edited March 2017

    Agreed with JLX. This really needs to be looked at. It would also be incentive to use the Lieutenant with your riflemen and has him not handicap your control group. It would be nice if I could have a Riflemen & Lieutenant in one group and a Riflemen & Rifleman in the other. Without one being handicapped by a poor UI system.

    Back in my days as a modder for Battle for Middle Earth 2, an OLD game at that, the UI never had this problem and worked when units shared the same abilities (When coded correctly to use not only the same abilities but also the same slots). It's very hard to imagine why that's impossible for a more advanced engine.

  • #1122
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204
    edited March 2017

    Stug iii E AoE it's bad vs infantry,the shells can actually hit the model but they won't die,usually 2 shots on the same model for a kill,and that's bad.Assault grens are kinda expensive for what they do.They don't need a debuff when running so they can get in close quarters.I think assault grens need a price reduction or increase their damage a bit(cause for 280,same price as IS and rifleman,they don't worth it).Why?cause you need to charge to be in close range and at medium range,they poor.Even at close range are meh vs rifleman(vet3) with cover and without

  • #1123
    3 years ago
    JLXJLX Ottawa, CanadaPosts: 29

    @Mr_Smith said: Could somebody verify that selecting (Elite Doctrine) Stormtroopers & Panzergrenadiers makes their G43 invisible?

    Sry. I don't have that commander. Anyone else?

  • #1124
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Mr_Smith said:

    Could somebody verify that selecting (Elite Doctrine) Stormtroopers & Panzergrenadiers makes their G43 invisible?

    i did not have any issue with the g43

  • #1125
    3 years ago
    ScottishNomad1988ScottishN… Posts: 35
    edited March 2017

    I checked the Stormtrooper and Panzergrenadier combo. The G43 upgrades are invisible when placed in the same control group. You know... I think I remember CoH1 didn't have this issue. You could have Riflemen and Rangers in the same Control Group and use Grenades with no annoying UI issues.

    Shame the coding is different between both games, yet have a similar UI system (Tabs to select specific squads). Relic has to know something, surely.

  • #1126
    3 years ago
    JLXJLX Ottawa, CanadaPosts: 29

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    I checked the Stormtrooper and Panzergrenadier combo. The G43 upgrades are invisible when placed in the same control group. You know... I think I remember CoH1 didn't have this issue. You could have Riflemen and Rangers in the same Control Group and use Grenades with no annoying UI issues.

    Shame the coding is different between both games, yet have a similar UI system (Tabs to select specific squads). Relic has to know something, surely.

    I'm glad you were able to check. Would be a great UI improvement if they can implement it in this version.

  • #1127
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    Guys,Stug iii E needs a buff.If the shell hits a model,then he will die in 2 shots.You don't imagine what this means vs ptrs penals.Armored car 222 should be really armored(cause right now every faction have a counter vs that car)

  • #1128
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    edited March 2017

    @Xutryn_X7 said:
    Guys,Stug iii E needs a buff.If the shell hits a model,then he will die in 2 shots.You don't imagine what this means vs ptrs penals.Armored car 222 should be really armored(cause right now every faction have a counter vs that car)

    If Stug-E can't wipe models in one shot, then stand around and fire a second shot. Stug-E has a long enough range to accommodate this arrangement.

    Live version T-70 shell deals "only" 40 damage. This means that T-70 is also unable to kill things with one shot. Yet, nobody in their right mind would ever lay a claim that T-70 is useless because it can't wipe in one shell. I would expect a similar type of reasoning for the Stug-E.

    Alternatively, get 2-3 Stug-Es and watch wonders unfold.

  • #1129
    3 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 2,006
    I'd still take a Sherman over 3 Stug Es since a single tank spells doom for those Stugs while the Sherman, possessing similar AI, is also useful vs tanks.
  • #1130
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    Stug iii E it's underperforming for a call in unit.Also live t70 shoots faster.I don't want it to be like brummbar but not be rekt by "light" at infantry so easy.Penals should miss from time to time those light vehicles,don't you think?British trenches are still too small to be shot

  • #1131
    3 years ago

    Stug E was fine in the way it shoots, just needed to be nerfed in the same kinda way the T70 was. Not sure why health was decreased - it's not a light tank.

  • #1132
    3 years ago
    MakcumMakcum Posts: 75
    edited March 2017

    What sence nerf soviets, if its weakest nation in game? If someone need nerf - its british forces. Their comets - tanks-mutants that have not realistic armor like panthers, easy pins and kill infantry like konigstiger and movement speed like pz 4. Little of they have boforce that wasnt english weapon, best infantry that can with brens kill mg in suppression, they also have best tanks that more than doubtful.

  • #1133
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    Stug E was fine in the way it shoots, just needed to be nerfed in the same kinda way the T70 was. Not sure why health was decreased - it's not a light tank.

    Its cost says otherwise.

  • #1134
    3 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434
    edited March 2017

    @Katitof said:

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    Stug E was fine in the way it shoots, just needed to be nerfed in the same kinda way the T70 was. Not sure why health was decreased - it's not a light tank.

    Its cost says otherwise.

    Rather have its cost + cooldown increased and have it keep its proper medium vehicle status. It's a Stug with a different high explosive round. It just got mixed in with the other unrelated op light tanks/vehicles. It had a call in-meta problem that did over perform for its cost. Increase the cost then and/or give slight nerfs. Bypassing tech was a reason for its nerf but Wolverine spam not touched.

    Even under the balance notes it says "Stug E (LIGHT VEHICLES)" :neutral: The description giving reason to the rather drastic nerfs that created an overhaul of a unit spanning many changes in iterations from 1.2 right up to .9 - doesn't say why a decrease in armour to 3 anti tank gun shots was ALSO needed. Allied infantry - the units the StugE is suppose to be a deterrent to, will have a field day imo.

    I don't think many people like the way the unit is now but I digress. Can always be reverted/changed later on.

  • #1135
    3 years ago

    I think a possible compromise would be to increase the cost of stug E or lock it behind Tier3 tech or the building. At 7 cp, the vehicle should be quite good offensively as it still has low health, armor, and does very little vs anything more armored than a Stuart.

  • #1136
    3 years ago

    Gotta mention some quality of life changes:

    • Give grens sandbags.
    • Disallow Brit emplacements in base sectors. Quite a problem on smaller maps
  • #1137
    3 years ago
    Grens would need a nerf and or loose bunkers. if they get that just like tommies do imo. The wfa inf will be nerfed that would make grens a tad to effective.

    And i want cons to be effective at long range :p joking. Grens are designed to be fragile just like cons were with durability.
  • #1138
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    IS squads should not be treated as ghosts.Their received accuracy is to low.It destroys grens balance.Can you give some damage to cons and grens so they will be a bit closer to WFA/UKF infantry?.Why ass grens are 280mp if they still lose in close range(and point blank range)vs infantry who are good at long range???plus they are doctrinal

  • #1139
    3 years ago
    Never seen that happen once. But i dont play that commander. Nor do i play brits much.
  • #1140
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited March 2017

    @Xutryn_X7 said:
    IS squads should not be treated as ghosts.Their received accuracy is to low.It destroys grens balance.

    How? Its much more expensive squad with much less supporting options for them.

  • #1141
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    @Katitof said:

    @Xutryn_X7 said:
    IS squads should not be treated as ghosts.Their received accuracy is to low.It destroys grens balance.

    How? Its much more expensive squad with much less supporting options for them.

    Tell me as ostheer how am I supposed to fight IS at vet 3?,grens barely scratches them,pz grens can't be builded in the same amount as IS.Why they have ~0.66 at vet 3 received accuracy?is not fair and real at all.THey are way over the top.Also they accuracy is insane,dropping ostheer models in first second.Their cover bonus make them even OP.I thought no one wants terminator squads A move everything without giving a .... about their infantry cause they can't get wipe so easy at all.Right now rifleman are balanced(at least for okw).Grens can barely kill some IS models.

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