Winter Balance Preview Mod Feedback

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  • #1142
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Xutryn_X7 said:

    @Katitof said:

    @Xutryn_X7 said:
    IS squads should not be treated as ghosts.Their received accuracy is to low.It destroys grens balance.

    How? Its much more expensive squad with much less supporting options for them.

    Tell me as ostheer how am I supposed to fight IS at vet 3?,grens barely scratches them,pz grens can't be builded in the same amount as IS.Why they have ~0.66 at vet 3 received accuracy?is not fair and real at all.THey are way over the top.Also they accuracy is insane,dropping ostheer models in first second.Their cover bonus make them even OP.I thought no one wants terminator squads A move everything without giving a .... about their infantry cause they can't get wipe so easy at all.Right now rifleman are balanced(at least for okw).Grens can barely kill some IS models.

    By the time they are vet3 you should have

    -vehicles
    -support weapons, like vetted MG and/or mortar
    -sniper

    IS is literally the only combat infantry UKF has, its meant to scale well.
    Also, its firepower doesn't come from scaling, which in that regard is pretty bad.
    IS scale with defense almost exclusively.

    You're looking at just one stats, ignoring the fact that they don't benefit from bonuses suck as 40% increased accuracy, while grens do.

    Grens also aren't supposed to go toe to toe against any other infantry then conscripts.

  • #1143
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    edited March 2017
    Only combat unit aside from the potentially 5 man assault squad with the dirt cheap reinforcment or cons, slightly more purchase price of pios and less rec acc at vet0 than penals will ever receive At max vet AND the flexibility that is supposed to be iconic of the usf. But yea IS NEED a unvetted target sized of 0.8 cause other wise they would be helpless. Not but a 105 range wipe machine to support them, their trash snper who can only throw flares and deal as much damage as 2 ptrs per shot vs armour, the crappy pak40 clone, the super bleed mg... Poor brits so UP... I guess its a good thing they have access to a 15 fuel cheaper super p4 and mini tiger non doc or those brits wouldnt have a chance, i mean can you imagine- the soviet need a specific unit to level a building, the brits only a certain upgrade path. Or whats worse, ONLY having los pn a tank for 10seconds just because. I mean, if anything the brits are UP. Like, to use the arty that is unlocked free with teching up they neex to select a potentially 5 man at /super AI sqaud and instead of letting itself and any squads withing a radius heal, it needs to opt for inceased los in a non doc upgrade. Like can you believe those poor brits?
  • #1144
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    If your balancing infantry based on the current performance of OST, I fail to see how anyone could think that IS would be
    an exception to that fact. I mean, i know its not like the UKF is horrendously overperforming... right? So we should really leave the ultimate ai squad, backed up by probably the best/second best mg, and the super accurate mortar pit, as they really can't stand up to axis infantry alone.

    But in all seriousness folks, grens shouldn't obviously be going one on one with tommies, but then again tommies shouldnt basically have their out-of-cover penalties removed post 12min due to how much yellow cover pops up. Its disgusting to watch them ignore mg fire and shred the team with double brens faster than they can be supressed.

    Other problem is once again Relic adding incredibly powerful indirect fire weapons to a faction fighting another designed around static support teams and small squads of infantry. On the rare occasion that OST isn't being hammered by land mattresses, they get too exchange that raw deal for the current "I WIN" button that is arty cover, I mean honestly, if the game gets post 20mins, you might as well just surrender as OST, UKF is just unstoppable after that. I don't even think OKW really stands a chance either, and I consider them OP in alot of regards.

  • #1145
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    What about their mortar pit?they out range ostheer mortar.I need to close in with 2 mortar to reliable kill a mortar emplacement.I need to retreat cause 3 vet 3 grens with lmg will lose vs 3 is squad vet 3 with brens in yellow cover(from the arty).People shouldn't rush them blindly.If you want them to be effective in the cover,then make them to be effective in cover but don't give them high accuracy,killing spree everything.They are worse than rifle blob cause you can't him them.With what in middle game?mortar? that i use to counter mortar pit or vickers?mg that get fucked by their mortar pit?People should think when using units,making decisions to attack but(they don't get any debuff when not in cover) and actually there is everywhere yellow cover that buffs them.I can't maintain a field presence as ostheer if i don't have retreat point(bunker) and i need to retreat all the fucking way to my HQ that get fucked by their burst shell arty and other arty in the base sector.I can't attack IS squad, I can't defend from them giving the same amount of pop cap that he is attacking and i am defending

  • #1146
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Xutryn_X7 said:
    What about their mortar pit?they out range ostheer mortar.I need to close in with 2 mortar to reliable kill a mortar emplacement.

    I've posted a replay back in January how ost mortars hardcounter pit. Pit is not an excuse for anything. Complaining that static emplacement got more range then mobile weapon is silly to say the least.

    I need to retreat cause 3 vet 3 grens with lmg will lose vs 3 is squad vet 3 with brens in yellow cover(from the arty).People shouldn't rush them blindly.If you want them to be effective in the cover,then make them to be effective in cover but don't give them high accuracy,killing spree everything.

    Where is your HMG? The one that stops blobs instantly?
    Grens are NOT meant to stand up to fully upgraded allied squads, what makes you believe 240mp and 60 muni should have slightest chance against 280mp 120 muni +cost of all the required side grades?
    If grens would be able to stand up to that, we'd have to nerf grens, because they'd be OP AF.

    They are worse than rifle blob cause you can't him them.With what in middle game?mortar? that i use to counter mortar pit or vickers?mg that get fucked by their mortar pit?People should think when using units,making decisions to attack but(they don't get any debuff when not in cover) and actually there is everywhere yellow cover that buffs them.I can't maintain a field presence as ostheer if i don't have retreat point(bunker) and i need to retreat all the fucking way to my HQ that get fucked by their burst shell arty and other arty in the base sector.I can't attack IS squad, I can't defend from them giving the same amount of pop cap that he is attacking and i am defending

    Again, 2 ost mortars hardcounter pit.
    Mortars also happen to hardcounter vickers.
    Where is your HMG?
    His pit can't follow his inf, your HMG and mortars can.

    You struggle, because you don't fight properly against them.

  • #1147
    3 years ago

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    Grens would need a nerf and or loose bunkers. if they get that just like tommies do imo. The wfa inf will be nerfed that would make grens a tad to effective.

    And i want cons to be effective at long range :p joking. Grens are designed to be fragile just like cons were with durability.

    How would grens need a nerf if they get sandbags? They won't be "just like IS" since IS still get that 0.8 received accuracy and increased RoF in cover both of which grens don't get. Bunkers are nowhere as good as password protected, hard to kill Brit trenches. So if anything IS need a nerf. Not grens.

  • #1148
    3 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited March 2017

    Who thinks the snipers have been nerfed beyond belief? The fact that you have to fire from cover is an insane restriction. Many maps don't have that much cover for a sniper to traverse. Snipers have already lost their armor and are already very easy to kill in live patch. Imo good sniper micro simply requires maintaining max range and having some sort of screen and retreating in time. Anymore handicaps placed on this fragile unit will make it obsolete.

    If you catch a sniper out of position with a single bar rifle squad, you can kill a full health sniper on retreat 70% of the time. If you have double bar, there is no escape.

    Just because a sniper is a thorn in the side of the opponent doesn't mean it needs further nerfs. Allied light vehicles usually force a pak/rak. No axis player wants to invest in stubborn, decrewable AT that early into the game. Similarly, if you want to counter a sniper with easier micro, you'll be forced to get the sniper killing specialist (ie. kubel, 222, scout car, m20, etc.) Or a counter sniper. Some units simply force your hand. That's CoH2.

  • #1149
    3 years ago
    @1ncendiary_Rounds

    Grens can build bunkers wich can provide reinforcing or healing and pop free mg cover. They dont use it much though.
    And have a very capable mg in t0

    It would give their staying power a big boost with no downsides. And buff mg42 with more cover.

    Its just my thought on the matter.
  • #1150
    3 years ago
    alptekinalptekin Posts: 5

    @Mr_Smith, first of all, we all appreciate your efforts and we know sth that not easy to fix and sth that not in your control.But we all want to know why relic (or who is in charge) not paying attention to this game.What we can do as a community to help developing coh 2 for better gameplay experience?

  • #1151
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @alptekin said:
    @Mr_Smith, first of all, we all appreciate your efforts and we know sth that not easy to fix and sth that not in your control.But we all want to know why relic (or who is in charge) not paying attention to this game.What we can do as a community to help developing coh 2 for better gameplay experience?

    Try to develop a mindset that for every bonkers OP unit/ability of each faction that badly needs a nerf, there's also one UP unit in that faction that needs help (and vice versa). If next survey has the same format, for each faction try to vote their most OP unit and their most UP unit.

    There are no factions without OP units, and there are no factions without UP units.

  • #1152
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    @Katitof said:

    @Xutryn_X7 said:
    What about their mortar pit?they out range ostheer mortar.I need to close in with 2 mortar to reliable kill a mortar emplacement.

    I've posted a replay back in January how ost mortars hardcounter pit. Pit is not an excuse for anything. Complaining that static emplacement got more range then mobile weapon is silly to say the least.

    I need to retreat cause 3 vet 3 grens with lmg will lose vs 3 is squad vet 3 with brens in yellow cover(from the arty).People shouldn't rush them blindly.If you want them to be effective in the cover,then make them to be effective in cover but don't give them high accuracy,killing spree everything.

    Where is your HMG? The one that stops blobs instantly?
    Grens are NOT meant to stand up to fully upgraded allied squads, what makes you believe 240mp and 60 muni should have slightest chance against 280mp 120 muni +cost of all the required side grades?
    If grens would be able to stand up to that, we'd have to nerf grens, because they'd be OP AF.

    They are worse than rifle blob cause you can't him them.With what in middle game?mortar? that i use to counter mortar pit or vickers?mg that get fucked by their mortar pit?People should think when using units,making decisions to attack but(they don't get any debuff when not in cover) and actually there is everywhere yellow cover that buffs them.I can't maintain a field presence as ostheer if i don't have retreat point(bunker) and i need to retreat all the fucking way to my HQ that get fucked by their burst shell arty and other arty in the base sector.I can't attack IS squad, I can't defend from them giving the same amount of pop cap that he is attacking and i am defending

    Again, 2 ost mortars hardcounter pit.
    Mortars also happen to hardcounter vickers.
    Where is your HMG?
    His pit can't follow his inf, your HMG and mortars can.

    You struggle, because you don't fight properly against them.

    Mortar pit can sit behind a very hard to take down building,with an incredible range.It takes 3 grens+mg+2 mortars to stop 3 IS with one mortar pit.The manpower bleed for ostheer is heavy cause they need to retreat always.People are also flanking,you know,and then can repair the mortar pit.not reinforce it

  • #1153
    3 years ago
    alptekinalptekin Posts: 5
    edited March 2017

    @Mr_Smith said:

    @alptekin said:
    @Mr_Smith, first of all, we all appreciate your efforts and we know sth that not easy to fix and sth that not in your control.But we all want to know why relic (or who is in charge) not paying attention to this game.What we can do as a community to help developing coh 2 for better gameplay experience?

    Try to develop a mindset that for every bonkers OP unit/ability of each faction that badly needs a nerf, there's also one UP unit in that faction that needs help (and vice versa). If next survey has the same format, for each faction try to vote their most OP unit and their most UP unit.

    There are no factions without OP units, and there are no factions without UP units.

    @Mr_Smith last question is why relic (or who is in charge) not paying attention to this game?Everyone knows that relic don t care this game this days.

  • #1154
    3 years ago

    @Mr_Smith said:

    @alptekin said:
    @Mr_Smith, first of all, we all appreciate your efforts and we know sth that not easy to fix and sth that not in your control.But we all want to know why relic (or who is in charge) not paying attention to this game.What we can do as a community to help developing coh 2 for better gameplay experience?

    Try to develop a mindset that for every bonkers OP unit/ability of each faction that badly needs a nerf, there's also one UP unit in that faction that needs help (and vice versa). If next survey has the same format, for each faction try to vote their most OP unit and their most UP unit.

    There are no factions without OP units, and there are no factions without UP units.

    What is the most UP unit for Ostheer in your opinion?

  • #1155
    3 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited March 2017

    @Ext3rmin4tor schrieb:
    What is the most UP unit for Ostheer in your opinion?

    Panther, Tiger, Grenadier all of them are UP in games over 2vs2.

  • #1156
    3 years ago
    Hesky85Hesky85 Posts: 52
    edited March 2017

    Found a very bad 1vs1. Jove vs Pappy O'Daniel.

    It's insane how overpowered USF is in 1vs1. The pershing is such a beast and wiping machine compared to the Tiger and other axis tanks. This is is not a "l2p" issue what allies players always say. This is just unbalanced crap.

  • #1157
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Hesky85 said:
    Found a very bad 1vs1. Jove vs Pappy O'Daniel.

    It's insane how overpowered USF is in 1vs1. The pershing is such a beast and wiping machine compared to the Tiger and other axis tanks. This is is not a "l2p" issue what allies players always say. This is just unbalanced crap.

    1) Tiger got larger AoE then pershing and shoots faster out of the gate
    2) Pershing and Tiger cost the same, but pershing got 800 hp vs Tigers 1040. Difference of that 240hp needs to be allocated somewhere, because pershing got nothing on tiger which is more durable, shoots faster with larger aoe out of the gate and got higher penetration.
    3) That isn't a game from balance mod, therefore its irrelevant for this thread, which is titled
    "Winter Balance Preview MOD Feedback" not "Random Rants About Units Out of Scope"

  • #1158
    3 years ago
    Xutryn_X7Xutryn_X7 Posts: 204

    @Katitof said:

    @Hesky85 said:
    Found a very bad 1vs1. Jove vs Pappy O'Daniel.

    It's insane how overpowered USF is in 1vs1. The pershing is such a beast and wiping machine compared to the Tiger and other axis tanks. This is is not a "l2p" issue what allies players always say. This is just unbalanced crap.

    1) Tiger got larger AoE then pershing and shoots faster out of the gate
    2) Pershing and Tiger cost the same, but pershing got 800 hp vs Tigers 1040. Difference of that 240hp needs to be allocated somewhere, because pershing got nothing on tiger which is more durable, shoots faster with larger aoe out of the gate and got higher penetration.
    3) That isn't a game from balance mod, therefore its irrelevant for this thread, which is titled
    "Winter Balance Preview MOD Feedback" not "Random Rants About Units Out of Scope"

    It's show what this looooooooong winter patch should have fixed.Stand fast are still very op,advanced emplacement give unfair auto repair zombies(cause they don't die), mortar arty great vs tanks and AT,mg,infantry and so on.Ostheer can have a good 222 for some reasons,bad at AT and bad at AI also.Takes too much to reach a mediocre pz 4(without building any light car)

  • #1160
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Fun bit of off topic knowledge, a vetted pershing with combined arms shoots ~2 seconds. Talk about dps
  • #1161
    3 years ago

    The entire commander is OP...

  • #1162
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    HVAP and combined arms are two seriously underated abilties. But then the whole USF faction is a mess of overshadowed and underused abilities and units.

  • #1163
    3 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited March 2017

    More no-brainer quality of life changes:

    • Give all HMGs a reload button so that the next time it fires, it doesn't fire half a burst, and then allow the enemy to get within grenade range.
    • Make the SU heavy mortar decrew after losing 5 of 6 men instead of all the men. Don't know why it has to be THAT durable as all the other factions can only afford to lose 2 men on the mortar teams, yet the heavy mortar can lose 5 and still retreat. The pak howi cannot retreat and also has 6 men but can only lose 4 men.

    I don't care that its not "in scope." These are no-brainer QoL improvements.

  • #1164
    3 years ago

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    More no-brainer quality of life changes:

    • Give all HMGs a reload button so that the next time it fires, it doesn't fire half a burst, and then allow the enemy to get within grenade range.
    • Make the SU heavy mortar decrew after losing 5 of 6 men instead of all the men. Don't know why it has to be THAT durable as all the other factions can only afford to lose 2 men on the mortar teams, yet the heavy mortar can lose 5 and still retreat. The pak howi cannot retreat and also has 6 men but can only lose 4 men.

    I don't care that its not "in scope." These are no-brainer QoL improvements.

    Would be cool if they could fix that. I would definitely add that to coh3.

  • #1165
    3 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 696
    edited March 2017
    If the 120mm gets decrewed at 2 men fix redicoulus popcap and make its rounds as leathal as before its nerf.

    Othewise why would i get one for that price off 340mp. Its umpf got nerfed long ago.
  • #1166
    3 years ago

    Anecdotal - based on practice game between Vonivan and Hans:

    AA OKW halftrack didn't do much against maxims in buildings
    Raketen misses just as much and gets one shotted more easily due to universal loss of camo. Why not give it armour?
    Stug E is okay..just.. but getting more than one is not worth it. It cannot counter tanks effectively so again why also decrease its health to that of a light vehicle @Mr_Smith ?

  • #1167
    3 years ago
    ZaneyZaney Posts: 7

    If anyone is interested in seeing the flak-HT in action in the game between Hans and VonIvan you can watch it here: just skip to 17:32 thats when the flak-HT gets on the field

    Shortly after the HT gets on the field it fights a maxim garrisoned in a wooden building. It fires 2 bursts at the garrison and kills one model.

    Then it pulls back to be repaired.

    Once the HT is repaired it reengages a garrison in the same wooden building. Its a 6 man maxim squad. How did the HT fare against the garrisoned maxim?

    6 salvos = 1 model killed

    Personally I had hoped the flak-HT would fare better against garrisoned units

  • #1168
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    Both AAHT and Luch in WBP are average at best at dealing with garrison.

  • #1169
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Vipper said:
    Both AAHT and Luch in WBP are average at best at dealing with garrison.

    None of the lights is of any use in dispatching garrisons in WBP, they all toned down to a decoration level even against units in yellow cover.

  • #1170
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited March 2017

    Read patch notes both AAHT and Luch got buffed vs garrison not toned down in WBP but they are still average at best.

  • #1171
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    They were both buffed to give OKW an effective anti-garrison utility without reliance on the muni-sink/unreliable incendiary grenades.

    I presume your refering to light vehicles against garrison when you say "toned down to a decoration level"? Because no-sane person believes that the live t-70/stuart is balanced.

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