[SOV][ALL] Pros and Conscripts: A Poll/Balance Think-Tank

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Comments

  • #32
    3 years ago
    PrincessBubblegumPrincessB… Posts: 110
    edited March 2017
    Conscripts don't need changing

    @TheLeveler83 написал:
    Letze

    I will gladly discus the whole spectrum of soviet with you in another thread. We are going off topic. This thread is about cons in relations to grens.

    Agree. But here is a point: if u buff cons by giving to them even more utility it will just leave all ostheer tech with nothing against those changes.
    Also i must remind that CoH2 is balanced around 1v1 and in that mode conscripts are scaling pretty well even against OKW.
    Any idea of cons buff must affect strong changes in both ostfront factions.

  • #33
    3 years ago
    GrittleGrittle Posts: 993
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    Letze

    I will gladly discus the whole spectrum of soviet with you in another thread. We are going off topic. This thread is about cons in relations to grens.

    No, this is not about grens. This is about potential changes to cons as a whole.

    I listed unbalance vs grens as a downside because the balance between grens and cons are nearly perfect, and any significant changes has a moderate probability of upsetting that said balance.

  • #34
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    Above all, Soviets need to be heavily incentivised to buy all infantry upgrades, and build all tiers at some point in the game. To do this, Conscripts must become the perfect platforms for launching molotov/AT nade attacks; not necessarily from the start of the game (to prevent Conscript-spam roflstomps), but at least by some point in the game when Conscripts (and other infantry) have reached max vet.

    The throwing time of the molotov is atrocious for using it as an offensive ability. At the same time, Conscript rifle effective range is atrocious, which means molotovs offer little/nothing if used defensively (I mean, who would want to close-in vs Conscripts, it's usually the other way around).

    Otherwise, the perfect late-game role for Conscripts would be defensive/attrition infantry that is meant to build green cover and hold the ground.

  • #35
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    I'll go with utility as well.

    Conscripts tools HAVE to become better.

    You can't really improve merge here, but there is plenty room for improvements literally everywhere else, both doctrinally and stock(the latter would be better, because I don't want to bear doctrine chains when I want to have main backbone squad to be useful at anything else then giving stars to opponents).

    If it was up to me, increased throw time/possibly range for the molo would be starter and I'd evaluate from there if more needs to be done and if the answer is yes, I'd look directly at CoH1 PE pgs, their scaling, their upgrades as that too is an infantry that starts extremely poorly in early game only to become very good squad post all the side infantry upgrades and vet.

  • #36
    3 years ago
    BigBearBigBear Posts: 94
    Make Conscripts cheaper

    Hmm...I'm open to the idea of increasing the speed of the Molotov. Not sure what else they should be given though.

  • #37
    3 years ago

    @LetzteJunker said:

    @TheLeveler83 написал:
    Letze

    I will gladly discus the whole spectrum of soviet with you in another thread. We are going off topic. This thread is about cons in relations to grens.

    Agree. But here is a point: if u buff cons by giving to them even more utility it will just leave all ostheer tech with nothing against those changes.
    Also i must remind that CoH2 is balanced around 1v1 and in that mode conscripts are scaling pretty well even against OKW.
    Any idea of cons buff must affect strong changes in both ostfront factions.

    Cons scaling well vs OKW haha. Volks flatout beat cons at all stages of the game for only 10mp more. Seriously have you been living under a rock? I think both cons and grens are in need of buffs so denying either one of them is not acceptable unless Relic decides to nerf all WFA mainlines (which is the better option, but takes more work and knowing Relic, you can only pray they do what is best.)

  • #38
    3 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 696
    edited March 2017
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    volks easely belong in the 270/280 mp range imo. they outpreform both cons and grens alike during the entire game.

    for cons i think improving utility via vet would work great. oorah recharge/duration/speed improving, and moli speed improving while vetting up. this can redeem the lack of non doc upgrades. while keeping old vet should make cons a solid choice but wont be op from the start and give them some scaling potential.

    maybe ad a reinforce 2 for the price off one instead like imperial guards has in dow2?

    or at vet 3 they could become effective at long range? only from (heavy) cover.

    after this grens would need to be more survivable i feel. but the 5th man or 82 hp per model i am no fan off. butt also not really sure what to do here.

  • #39
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    Utility. Since they've determined that T1 penals are basically an autoclick, then making conscripts synch with penals should work, so then utility cons is the way to go. Cheaper cons does literally nothing to fix game balance, and DPS cons overlap with penals. And cons are garbage in their current form, so utility is definitely the way to go.

  • #40
    3 years ago
    ElSlayerElSlayer Posts: 230
    edited March 2017

    Well just stuff it in a commander!

    Now, if seriously:
    there is option about buffing DPS, but IMO damage dealing is a role of OTHER units.
    What cons should get is slightly more survivability in LATE GAME STAGE (when there are vet3 lmg grens, Pgrens, vet5 stg volks and g43 pfussies).
    I don't really care how exactly they get it - this is debatable (hp buff, additional squad member, rec acc buff, whatever).

    Cons should be Soviet army glue that:
    1) stick together all other combined arms pieces
    2) bogs down enemy infantry into prolonged fighting
    3) threatening tanks with AT snares if they want to dive in

    Pros:

    • cons don't overlap roles with penals
    • early game cons-grens balance won't be broken

    Cons:

    • Wehraboos are butthurt
  • #41
    3 years ago
    ElSlayerElSlayer Posts: 230

    @Katitof said:
    I'll go with utility as well.

    Conscripts tools HAVE to become better.

    You can't really improve merge here, but there is plenty room for improvements literally everywhere else, both doctrinally and stock(the latter would be better, because I don't want to bear doctrine chains when I want to have main backbone squad to be useful at anything else then giving stars to opponents).

    If it was up to me, increased throw time/possibly range for the molo would be starter and I'd evaluate from there if more needs to be done and if the answer is yes, I'd look directly at CoH1 PE pgs, their scaling, their upgrades as that too is an infantry that starts extremely poorly in early game only to become very good squad post all the side infantry upgrades and vet.

    You can improve merge by removing "bullet magnet" rec acc and compensating it somehow for grens to keep balance, or just by reducing vet bonus for same amount.
    I don't like idea of meddling into cons/grens balance, but improving merge is possible.

  • #42
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Make Conscripts cheaper
    @ElSlayer well vetted cons are already stupid durable, like, shouldnt be a thing durable... A way to make them a bit better but not OP at the start could be by giving oorah buffs with vet, this way cons are pretty meh, but give an audio cue when the enemy needs to watch out for them (this can be used to sike out the enemy too by oorahing an unvetted squad too) or maybe let oorah provide a small buff to units around the cons: small rec acc buff to units in cover, small rof buff... Then they themselves are better as a support unit and helps ease the pressure on the soviet as a whole (maxims could be aight with a con nearby, penals wouldnt need to be so strong as a con nearby would help them shine ect.)

    Cons have all the tools to be great, its a matter of applying them properly and if it takes removing flare mines, that is a sacrifice im willing to make.
  • #43
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    and if it takes removing flare mines, that is a sacrifice im willing to make.

    Blasphemy ;)

  • #44
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    Give Conscripts better Utility
    @thedarkarmadillo removed vet 1 flares from cons. Cons now get damage bonus vs entities marked by flares. Coming next patch in 2050
  • #45
    3 years ago
    GrittleGrittle Posts: 993
    Give Conscripts better Utility

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Cons have all the tools to be great, its a matter of applying them properly and if it takes removing flare mines, that is a sacrifice im willing to make.

    Whoa there, let's takes this one step at a time

    I'm still waiting to see if my B4 Howi Illuminated barrage idea comes into fruition.

  • #46
    3 years ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,060
    Give Conscripts better DPS

    Not gonna happen anything from this.
    Give them dem weapon uppgrade.

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