@Farra13 said:
The main problem in teamgames is resource inflation, the income for munition and fuel far exceeds what each player recieves in manpower, leading the likes of USF and SOV to float fuel, while Brits and the Axis basically have the fuel premiums they pay for better vehicles made negligible, therefore they easily match the other factions vehicles unit for unit, when they should really be outnumbered.
+100 Yeah, this is exactly the main problem. Couldn't say it better on my own. Does somebody know if mod team is thinking about a change of this anyhow in the near future? I mean so many people talking about that, but there is no reaction or sign of life by officials.
To put it in different, simpler words, in a real game, the game mechanics dictate that on average, every third shot of a pak will penetrate the ISU's front armor and thus cause damage. In hard numbers, 61% of the shots penetrate, 39% do not.
Here is a link that I found through google that scratches the basics of penetration: https://tinyurl.com/ku7occ6
@le12ro написал:
To put it in different, simpler words, in a real game, the game mechanics dictate that on average, every third shot of a pak will penetrate the ISU's front armor and thus cause damage. In hard numbers, 61% of the shots penetrate, 39% do not.
Here is a link that I found through google that scratches the basics of penetration: https://tinyurl.com/ku7occ6
@le12ro написал:
To put it in different, simpler words, in a real game, the game mechanics dictate that on average, every third shot of a pak will penetrate the ISU's front armor and thus cause damage. In hard numbers, 61% of the shots penetrate, 39% do not.
Here is a link that I found through google that scratches the basics of penetration: https://tinyurl.com/ku7occ6
@le12ro написал:
To put it in different, simpler words, in a real game, the game mechanics dictate that on average, every third shot of a pak will penetrate the ISU's front armor and thus cause damage. In hard numbers, 61% of the shots penetrate, 39% do not.
Here is a link that I found through google that scratches the basics of penetration: https://tinyurl.com/ku7occ6
Thanks, but then why pak penetrates all time?
It simply doesn't. You may experience moments in the aforementioned scenario that include the pak penetrating shot after shot after shot, but it'll normalise after a while towards 61% penetration as according to game mechanics.
Of course you'd be more than welcome to provide replays and videos that demonstrate otherwise; but these are the game mechanics as dictated by in-game values. Don't let your experience scew your perceptions!
@Makcum said:
Thanks, but then why pak penetrates all time?
Just because you have never visually seen your ISU-152 deflect a pak40 shot, does not mean it never happens. I had an ISU deflect a couple pak shots last night. Not in a row or anything, but it does happen.
ISU in range of pak 40 is misplay and even it's misplay it can deflect shots so people should not be complaining about isu getting penetrated by paks...
@Meow said:
ISU in range of pak 40 is misplay and even it's misplay it can deflect shots so people should not be complaining about isu getting penetrated by paks...
Not really, sometimes you want to take 1 last shot at a fleeing unit. It's a very expensive and slow firing assault gun, it's supposed to be able bounce some AT.
@Meow said:
ISU in range of pak 40 is misplay and even it's misplay it can deflect shots so people should not be complaining about isu getting penetrated by paks...
Not really, sometimes you want to take 1 last shot at a fleeing unit. It's a very expensive and slow firing assault gun, it's supposed to be able bounce some AT.
That's correct but it has advantage with range where you don't need armor vs paks.
I did not said armor should be 0 on such long range unit if it had great dps and long range it should have no armor , if we give unit range durability dps and mobility its OP
Good design of units should only have 2 of these 4 things.
Comet for example - great range dps mobility armor can attack infantry and tanks.
Panther for example - great range armor mobility , dps is mediocre vs tanks and low vs infantry.
ISU - longest AI capability , low mobility , high armor , low DPS. ISU is fine as it is has weaknesses that being low dps and low mobility but high range and OK durability for price but allowing ISU to get shot by paks its misplay in some way you should always be at 70 range unless you want to risk getting your ISU damaged for something more important like finishing a panther.
why is isu not kill tank more, is good big gun kill lots lots like tiger but in match bounce panzer? should hit bigger for long shooting between shots for aim
@PotatoMArk because real life =/= game balance. Just because it blasted the tits off stuff irl doesnt mean it should in game, we tried that, it was a dark time...
@thedarkarmadillo said: @PotatoMArk because real life =/= game balance. Just because it blasted the tits off stuff irl doesnt mean it should in game, we tried that, it was a dark time...
you not know game nough. isu big gun, should be hit big. tiger no chance, panzer no chance more!
@PotatoMArk thats nice and all, but this is a game and there are more important things than real life performance. How many bullets from a rifle do you think a person can take at point blank and still sprint away?
@thedarkarmadillo said: @PotatoMArk thats nice and all, but this is a game and there are more important things than real life performance. How many bullets from a rifle do you think a person can take at point blank and still sprint away?
Something needs to be done with ISU152. It's armor piercing round is utter trash and can't penetrate the JT or elephant reliably. I'd rather have it only be good at AT like the JT or elephant than it be mediocre and either. You wonder why no one build the Trash 152 because that's what it is. Every game is 4v4 there is a JT or elephant and it's usually an I WIN for the axis.
The ISU is lackluster IMO... I would actually nerf its penetration a bit, but increase the damage to 320 and add a 50% damage on deflection. It would add some flavour to the ISU.
How about making the ISU152 an indirect fire unit like the brummbar, get rid of those two ammo types and combine both in one. The old isu152 was nerfed because it wipe squads and killed tanks a like. If it is indirect fire (no homing shells and reduced projectile velocity) it would be effective against stationairy targets or slow vehicles, but weak against mobile targets. This would acutally perfectly fit it's intended role of an assault gun.
Have any of you guys played the balance (even through not yet official, made by the balance team)?
The changes to the ISU are pretty good.
The he rounds have been change to indirect fire (like the kv2) and the concrete rounds have been change to penetrate all world objects while also being reduce to 60 mini (at last).
The at department has been significantly improve to provide 0.667 deflection damage (160). The ISU has also been reduced to 230 fuel (considering their new premium price for not teching).
Comments
The ISU-152 has a range 70 the pak has a range of 60.
At range 60 a pak has 61% to penetrate a ISU-152 frontally.
+100 Yeah, this is exactly the main problem. Couldn't say it better on my own. Does somebody know if mod team is thinking about a change of this anyhow in the near future? I mean so many people talking about that, but there is no reaction or sign of life by officials.
But it enough to penetrate ISU all time
i understand that this tank have chance penetrate with 61% and dont penetrate with 39%, but in real game pak penetrate all time
... you don't understand
Then tell me or give link to read
To put it in different, simpler words, in a real game, the game mechanics dictate that on average, every third shot of a pak will penetrate the ISU's front armor and thus cause damage. In hard numbers, 61% of the shots penetrate, 39% do not.
Here is a link that I found through google that scratches the basics of penetration:
https://tinyurl.com/ku7occ6
Thanks, but then why pak penetrates all time?
It doesn't.
It simply doesn't. You may experience moments in the aforementioned scenario that include the pak penetrating shot after shot after shot, but it'll normalise after a while towards 61% penetration as according to game mechanics.
Of course you'd be more than welcome to provide replays and videos that demonstrate otherwise; but these are the game mechanics as dictated by in-game values. Don't let your experience scew your perceptions!
Just because you have never visually seen your ISU-152 deflect a pak40 shot, does not mean it never happens. I had an ISU deflect a couple pak shots last night. Not in a row or anything, but it does happen.
ISU in range of pak 40 is misplay and even it's misplay it can deflect shots so people should not be complaining about isu getting penetrated by paks...
Not really, sometimes you want to take 1 last shot at a fleeing unit. It's a very expensive and slow firing assault gun, it's supposed to be able bounce some AT.
That's correct but it has advantage with range where you don't need armor vs paks.
I did not said armor should be 0 on such long range unit if it had great dps and long range it should have no armor , if we give unit range durability dps and mobility its OP
Good design of units should only have 2 of these 4 things.
Comet for example - great range dps mobility armor can attack infantry and tanks.
Panther for example - great range armor mobility , dps is mediocre vs tanks and low vs infantry.
ISU - longest AI capability , low mobility , high armor , low DPS. ISU is fine as it is has weaknesses that being low dps and low mobility but high range and OK durability for price but allowing ISU to get shot by paks its misplay in some way you should always be at 70 range unless you want to risk getting your ISU damaged for something more important like finishing a panther.
why is isu not kill tank more, is good big gun kill lots lots like tiger but in match bounce panzer? should hit bigger for long shooting between shots for aim
you not know game nough. isu big gun, should be hit big. tiger no chance, panzer no chance more!
isu is not bullet, is is big explosion.
@thedarkarmadillo silly you. is is big explosion. is also Russian. Therefore is immune to logic and design.
don't forget.
It also comes with a burned CD that only contains the first 20 minutes of Rocky 4!
The problem of the ISU is that its counters (JT, Elefant) are omnipresent in almost every match.
The ISU is lackluster IMO... I would actually nerf its penetration a bit, but increase the damage to 320 and add a 50% damage on deflection. It would add some flavour to the ISU.
How about making the ISU152 an indirect fire unit like the brummbar, get rid of those two ammo types and combine both in one. The old isu152 was nerfed because it wipe squads and killed tanks a like. If it is indirect fire (no homing shells and reduced projectile velocity) it would be effective against stationairy targets or slow vehicles, but weak against mobile targets. This would acutally perfectly fit it's intended role of an assault gun.
Had that idea 3 years ago... everyone hated it. I will see what people say now.
The changes to the ISU are pretty good.
The he rounds have been change to indirect fire (like the kv2) and the concrete rounds have been change to penetrate all world objects while also being reduce to 60 mini (at last).
The at department has been significantly improve to provide 0.667 deflection damage (160). The ISU has also been reduced to 230 fuel (considering their new premium price for not teching).