[OKW][ALL] Is late game OKW OP? How should OKW change?

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Comments

  • #62
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 694
    The counters are all there. But okw can easely bully soviets in early game. The late game also favors okw.

    This makes getting the counters out more difficult.
  • #63
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071

    Which would be solved by fixing Volks as I have already said. It would prevent OKW from bullying Soviets early, allowing the Soviets to use field presence to prepare counters for OKWs end game

  • #64
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 694
    @Lazarus

    I could not agree more.
  • #65
    2 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434

    I'd hesitate to say Volks bully Penals in the early game :S The guys post reads like a 4v4 post.

  • #66
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 694
    Penals do beat volks mostly. But volks perform to wel they come to close to penals from the start for a much lower price and are t0. they also outscale them.

    While costing a lot less then penals volks can be spammed just as easy as cons.

    In 1v1 its not that bad but go in 3s and 4s its near unplayable atm i hear.
  • #67
    2 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    @Lazarus you played Soviet in last time? Try it.
  • #68
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071
    edited May 2017

    @Widerstreit said:
    @Lazarus you played Soviet in last time? Try it.

    Played Soviets, proved myself right. Now you try.

    @SquishyMuffin I do appreciate that, but for cost Volks are very good at holding ground against Penals using sandbags or green cover, and by the time you vet up and get your STGs out it's over red rover, Volks are just going to trade better when they shouldn't.

  • #69
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited May 2017
    > @Lazarus said:
    > @Widerstreit counter KTs with TDs and counter Obers with tanks or literally any kind of artillery at all. Just generally anything that isnt core infantry will do it. Sturm Tiger is countered by mediums.
    >
    > This is not opinion or debatable

    No you are objectively wrong.

    The KT and Sturm tigers fight at longish ranges and both have insane damage, on top of this OKW (exclusively) has the tools to maintain vision to make use of the units full range.

    You can't fight something with that much health and armor. The only thing in the game that 'counters' those heavy tanks is the firefly rockets because they can actually stop it from rolling away or shooting back.

    Regular TDs cannot maintain vision, you have to sacrifice infantry to keep vision, they are extremely vunerable to the KT (ironically) and also CANNOT chase because they will get snared and die.

    Remember if you lose a single tank or spotting infantry squad member and fail to kill the KT you have traded negative. And with all the chokepoints on the maps it is stupidly easy to protect such tanks.

    If I could call in Artillery everytime I saw an ober squad or build a tank everytime an OKW player built a ober squad holy fucking shit I would have no problem. But you can't. First off, how are you going to get the vision you need? How are you going to prevent them from dodging the Arty? How are you going to deal with survivors? If you buy tanks how are you going to deal with heavies and TDs?

    These are units with NO counters. This is the constant reality of the game.
  • #70
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    I play mostly 4s as all factions (brits least, then usf but ost, sov and okw about the same) i certainly dont feel i agree. Allied TDs easily mince the KT, but that depemds ENTIRELY on the allied player. I can tell by how the enemy is playing if i can go KT or not, if they are quick with their micro and have good awarness/ prioritization they will kite it for DAYS similarly with the ST, being unpredictable makes the ST useless because of its aim time. All allied factions have mass recon capability and in 4s there is no reason to not know where that ST is.

    If you cant fight those with soviet self spotting and satchels thats on you, hell this is a place i can highly recommend using ram! Get in there, beat the shit out of it. And lay some mines for christ sake...

    usf can have AT on every single squad they ever field if they so feel like it, ontop of one of the best (60 range btw) and also self spotting TDs

    Brits... Well sonny if you are havin a rough go with KTs you have fireflys, wham, bam, blinded aand dead! Or your non doc heavy AT gun, or non doc heavy gammons, or non doc piats, or non doc comets (weaker now, yes, but will still eat kt and st for dinner)

    If you are struggling with kraut armour its not a balance issue because allied TDs are literally (LITERALLY) designed to counter the KT and its ilk.

    ALSO very important:
    Countered is not restricted to killed. If the enemy cant keep their massive investment on the field it is countered. Pop 2/3 shots into a KT and watch it retreat, its not dead, but its not doing anything either.
  • #71
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071

    @WunderKatze said:
    > @Lazarus said:
    > @Widerstreit counter KTs with TDs and counter Obers with tanks or literally any kind of artillery at all. Just generally anything that isnt core infantry will do it. Sturm Tiger is countered by mediums.
    >
    > This is not opinion or debatable

    No you are objectively wrong.

    Incorrect. I am not for exactly the reasons thedarkarmadillo outlined. It's entirely on you if you can't use the best TDs in the game to D a T. The SU-85 has forward vision, and both the 85 and 76 have tracking which gives them more vision. They can literally keep sight on their own. If you don't use that to your advantage that's entirely because you are failing to use your faction effectively.

    OKW has OP units. The KT hasn't been one since the massive armor nerf and heavy limitation.

    Mortars are artillery. Katyushas are artillery. Pack Howitzers and Mortar Pits are artillery. Use these to kill Obers.

    Why do you need a medium tank for EVERY Ober squad? The enemy could field 10,000 Obers and a single medium tank would still be the answer.

  • #72
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited May 2017
    > I play mostly 4s as all factions (brits least, then usf but ost, sov and okw about the same) i certainly dont feel i agree. Allied TDs easily mince the KT, but that depemds ENTIRELY on the allied player. I can tell by how the enemy is playing if i can go KT or not, if they are quick with their micro and have good awarness/ prioritization they will kite it for DAYS similarly with the ST, being unpredictable makes the ST useless because of its aim time. All allied factions have mass recon capability and in 4s there is no reason to not know where that ST is.
    >
    > If you cant fight those with soviet self spotting and satchels thats on you, hell this is a place i can highly recommend using ram! Get in there, beat the shit out of it. And lay some mines for christ sake...
    >
    > usf can have AT on every single squad they ever field if they so feel like it, ontop of one of the best (60 range btw) and also self spotting TDs
    >
    > Brits... Well sonny if you are havin a rough go with KTs you have fireflys, wham, bam, blinded aand dead! Or your non doc heavy AT gun, or non doc heavy gammons, or non doc piats, or non doc comets (weaker now, yes, but will still eat kt and st for dinner)
    >
    > If you are struggling with kraut armour its not a balance issue because allied TDs are literally (LITERALLY) designed to counter the KT and its ilk.
    >
    > ALSO very important:
    > Countered is not restricted to killed. If the enemy cant keep their massive investment on the field it is countered. Pop 2/3 shots into a KT and watch it retreat, its not dead, but its not doing anything either.

    I play USF and sometimes SOV. I don't even own the brits. British are their own beast.

    For the longest time I was 30th world in 4v4 USF until I decayed to 100~ from not playing (I was playing Total war: warhammer).

    The bazooka spam is stupid and ineffective. Seriously. This is pretty obvious. It's pen is abysmal (you're fighting the highest armor value units in the game) and if you want to stand any chance against late game OKW inf you need double BARs. It's mandatory. This is not a disputed fact. It's why it always pops up as a balance topic and also why they haven't restricted double BARs. IT'S MANDATORY against OKW. If you dick around with zooks you'll get your squads exploded by KT shots and Sturm tiger as you march around trying to get those 50 range shots or raped by STG volks. You can throw them on REs but still all of the high armor OKW vehicles will ignore you until someone drops stuka missiles on you.

    USF has one of the best TDs? What the fuck? It's an established fact that the Jackson sucks. This was one of the topics Mr_smith brought up in team game balance. So many pros complain about it. Like Devm. It's way too squishy, it gets two shotted by the KT, meaning it can only fight for a very short amount of time and it also has to run away when ever a StuG or jagdpanzer shoots back. Because it always loses to them because of its low health and armor. The whole 'spot with a medium' rhetoric is stupid. In TD vs Panther/heavy land mediums stick out like sore thumbs because of their 40 range in a 50-60 ranged fight, they become easy snares for volks. KTs eat up riflemen so spotting with them is suicide.

    You might think you've 'countered' the KT by penning it thrice (about 5+ shots, its RNG while it is ALWAYS going to pen you) when it shows up but the joke is on you because you spent a comparable amount on spamming TDs (which is what EVERY fucking team game features NO exceptions unless you've winning by the 20min mark or on a select few maps) that are useless against the ober/volks reichsbloben. Meanwhile the KT is highly effective against both your tanks and inf (240 damage at 50 range!) Also Sturm pios have the fastest repair in the game. The CoH2.org ability guide pointed out that a vetted sturmpio repairs a 1 hp KT to full health in the same time a sherman crew repairs its sherman. Also they have mech HQ to speed things up.

    Also. As far as 'mass recon' goes USF has a non-doc recon strafe which doesn't maintain vision. A loiter that will get shot down by OKW free AA (which is stupid. They have a fucking AA vehicle. Why do they get free AA?) and a nice high altitude strafe on the two worst commanders in the USF lineup, those commanders are an embarrassment to the game. Rifle flares are awesome but you'll never win with them because of mandatory Calliopes or Pershing (funny how OKW has both heavies AND rocket arty stock).

    If I could just have one thing changed it would be the Walking stuka. It is a team game nightmare. It comes out before any other rocket arty in the game and for some reason takes two shots to kill. Also it always fires a free creeping barrage that magically can be aimed to fall along any axis without needing to orient the fucking truck. If I split up my team weapons OKW shouldn't be able to hit multiple of them. Period. Also did I mention that after 2-3 barrages it will destroy the team weapons themselves?

    > @Lazarus said:
    > OKW has OP units.

    No. It's not about OP units.

    It's about stupid, exclusive mechanics that serve no purpose other than to frustrate game play. In 1v1 most of these things are distractions in team games they become stupidly broken. I can't figure out why they are still in the game.

    Like a non-doc free-to-fire creeping barrage platform that can orient in any direction magically without needing to position the truck to wipe out all of your team weapons instead of having to pick one like EVERY other faction in the game.

    A IR spotting halftract to prevent flanks and to make sure your TDs and arty is constantly firing without risking any of your units, no need to spend brain power trying to figure out what your enemy is doing and no MU bleed to maintain vision!

    5 star vets. This has been toned down but it has no reason for existing and it hyper-scales some units (like KTs, walking stukas, obers, etc) that really REALLY don't need it.

    The fucking incendiary grenade that cheesifies all close range infantry battles. Seriously. Everyone just pops it all the fucking time. It's almost guaranteed to do some damage.

    Their final tech doubles as a suppression platform. On some maps this is just down right broken.

    Free AA. For some reason. They have a god damned AA vehicle I don't know why they are not required to build it. Bye bye airborne company :(

    The jagd tiger. Why? Just why? It shoots across the map (80 range if I am not mistaken), has INSANE armor and becomes a anti-inf vehicle with vet.
  • #73
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071

    @WunderKatze said:
    No. It's not about OP units.

    No, it is, and nothing you said that follows this has any relation to what I was responding to or arguing.

  • #74
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    @WunderKatze said:
    No. It's not about OP units.

    Yes it is

    It's about stupid, exclusive mechanics that serve no purpose other than to frustrate game play. In 1v1 most of these things are distractions in team games they become stupidly broken. I can't figure out why they are still in the game.

    All factions has exclusive mechanics in a certain way.

    Like a non-doc free-to-fire creeping barrage platform that can orient in any direction magically without needing to position the truck to wipe out all of your team weapons instead of having to pick one like EVERY other faction in the game.

    The stuka is fragile as hell, but powerful. You can kill it with infantry too. While on the other hand a calliope is basically a sherman tank... you have to chase it with another tank to destroy. Eventually you lose your own tank in the process. Btw i've been firing 6 men DHSK squad with walking stuka, and a shell landed on the top of the squad... 2 men still survived. Check land mattress can do with your base., if you think stuka is OP.

    A IR spotting halftract to prevent flanks and to make sure your TDs and arty is constantly firing without risking any of your units, no need to spend brain power trying to figure out what your enemy is doing and no MU bleed to maintain vision!

    So what? Soviet snipers can shoot flares, other factions can call in plane recons... i don't think a slow sweep non-combat unit would be any harm, unless you like camping.

    5 star vets. This has been toned down but it has no reason for existing and it hyper-scales some units (like KTs, walking stukas, obers, etc) that really REALLY don't need it.

    The 5 vet level is complete bullsh*t, and everyone who plays OKW knows it. Your vet5 squad is equal to a vet3 allied squad, and some unit simply never reach vet5. Atleast its not a mirror-copy of another faction.

    The fucking incendiary grenade that cheesifies all close range infantry battles. Seriously. Everyone just pops it all the fucking time. It's almost guaranteed to do some damage.

    Yes, while they don't have any smoke, or indirect garrison clearing ability. What should they use when you put an MG in a building in early game?

    Their final tech doubles as a suppression platform. On some maps this is just down right broken.

    No way... people use their abilities in the spirit of the map they playing? that's just unfair. Obviously if you build it to a tactically better place, you benefit more. Its true about everything... a mine, a bunker, an AT gun... on certain maps those are better... yet it doesnt mean they are broken.

    Free AA. For some reason. They have a god damned AA vehicle I don't know why they are not required to build it. Bye bye airborne company :(

    Yes, its true, but since AA turrets are useless since OKW has been released.... i don't really care.

    The jagd tiger. Why? Just why? It shoots across the map (80 range if I am not mistaken), has INSANE armor and becomes a anti-inf vehicle with vet.

    It never becomes an anti-inf vehicle. It's range is fine as well. Maybe its frontal armor is too high, i agree with that.

  • #75
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    @WunderKatze the jackson is squishy, yes, but it also is HIGHLY mobile, hits like a truck and has some damn fine pen values AND can buff damage as well as pen with vet. Oh and it can SEE as far as other tanks can SHOOT which is 5 further than THEY can see. If you are expecting ANYTHING to get in a slugging match with the single most expensive unit in the game i have no idea wht you are posting in balance. Instead of bitching about the okw advantages make use of your own.

    Mass recon includes the major recon, yes but also the m20 and jackson's great los. Its not going to spot the enemy arty but it will let you know where the enemy is before they know exactly where you are.
    Other doctrinal options include pathfinders, off map recon, rifle flares, and forward observers. If you are getting blindsided its not OP units, its lack of tactic
  • #76
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited May 2017
    @RiCE If you want a response go back and edit your post. You failed to address any and all of my concerns. Here's some hints: IR=FREE vision no MU costs (exception is British command veh), Stuka is twice as tanky as other non-doc rocket artys and has a much much more potent barrage, what exclusive mechanics are you talking about in allies? Probably none in particular *clap clap,* Russian incendiaries have a wind up, add a timer delay to the OKW super flame nades (like frags have), just as useful vs garrisons but not fucking easy OP against inf. I mentioned the 5vet but let be more explicit. It gives the walking Stuka these INSANE reload time reduction and it gives obers suppression, turns the Jagdtiger into an AI vehicle. Some places it has been toned down others it hasn't been.

    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > @WunderKatze the jackson is squishy, yes, but it also is HIGHLY mobile, hits like a truck and has some damn fine pen values AND can buff damage as well as pen with vet. Oh and it can SEE as far as other tanks can SHOOT which is 5 further than THEY can see. If you are expecting ANYTHING to get in a slugging match with the single most expensive unit in the game i have no idea wht you are posting in balance. Instead of bitching about the okw advantages make use of your own.
    >
    > Mass recon includes the major recon, yes but also the m20 and jackson's great los. Its not going to spot the enemy arty but it will let you know where the enemy is before they know exactly where you are.
    > Other doctrinal options include pathfinders, off map recon, rifle flares, and forward observers. If you are getting blindsided its not OP units, its lack of tactic

    It's not about OP units thanks for reading my post (hint: my response to laz). Look. I don't really know how to explain this any other way. If it doesn't spot more than 60 range you are going to get hit by a 240 damage HE wipe KT shell at 50 range. Out of your list this leaves rifle flares which I mentioned in my post and you missed. Why should I have to pay 340mp and 20fu AND vet it up to get shorter range spotting when OKW and pay 200mp and 5fu for Superior spotting that doesn't risk the unit.

    Remember there is an extra constraint. If you want to be effective late game you HAVE to take Pershing or Calliope. Again, this is common team game wisdom, mr_smith has talked about in his post. OKW gets both rocket Arty and Heavy tanks.

    The Jackson is not highly mobile. It did get buffed but it will still get over taken by most tanks.

    Jackons AP shell costs more MU (which your are already shelling out for vision) and increases reload time, might not be the DPS increase you think it is and remember if a panther decides to charge in Jackson=dead. You are slower and cannot even reliably pen it.

    Also instead of trying to insult my game play just post you 4s rank and call it good.

    If your 'just use your faction's strengths rhetoric had ANY grounding in thre game the winrates (all the way up to players that are better than both of us) would not be what they are and you'd see more allied players in team games. Seriously. Stop. You are talking complete nonsense recommending the worst tactics and disregarding winrates and playrates.
  • #77
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    edited May 2017

    @WunderKatze said:
    If it doesn't spot more than 60 range you are going to get hit by a 240 damage HE wipe KT shell at 50 range.

    im unsure of how the KT gets a range bonus when fighting units with less that 60 sight range (that being nearly every tank in the game except su TDs, vetted m20 and spotting scoped units)

    >

    Out of your list this leaves rifle flares which I mentioned in my post and you missed. Why should I have to pay 340mp and 20fu AND vet it up to get shorter range spotting when OKW and pay 200mp and 5fu for Superior spotting that doesn't risk the unit.

    i didnt forget rifle flares, its the 3rd thing (before pathfinders) also why in the flying fuck are you comparing a scout combat unit to a non com? its like complaining that the opel blitz can increase resource gains but the M5 HT cant. they are totally different units, also TRUE vision, is superiour spotting as it allows for auto fire, units like the IRHT and Val only provide intel (no mortar will fire, nor AT gun shoot at units spotted by map hax)

    Remember there is an extra constraint. If you want to be effective late game you HAVE to take Pershing or Calliope. Again, this is common team game wisdom, mr_smith has talked about in his post. OKW gets both rocket Arty and Heavy tanks.

    i personally disagree, becuase the usf were surviving plenty BEFORE those commanders were launched. are there commanders and abilities that need looked at? absolutly there are! but players pick those because they are the best! while i dont play USF too often, i dont even have those commanders loaded, 4v is about dicking around in a large battle and the usf are more than able to do that, fluid FRP, smoke on everything, self repairing tanks.... seriously...


    The Jackson is not highly mobile. It did get buffed but it will still get over taken by most tanks.

    JACKSON
    ACCELERATION 3
    DECELERATION 4.3
    MAX SPEED 6.5

    SHERMAN
    ACC 2.2
    DEC 4.4
    MAX 6.4

    PANTHER
    ACC 2.4
    DEC 4.5
    MAX 6.6

    P4 (ost/okw
    ACC 2.1/2
    DEC 4.3/4.1
    MAX 6.3/6

    STUG
    ACC 2.1
    DEC 3.9
    MAX 6

    TIGER 1
    ACC 1.5
    DEC 1.8
    MAX 4.7

    KING TIGER
    ACC 1.4
    DEC 1.8
    MAX 3.8

    PUMA (ost/okw)
    ACC 2.5/4.5
    DEC 4.7/5.5
    MAX 7.2/7.2

    "most tanks" the puma (whom it out ranges and can kill in 2 shots) or the panther (if it has enough time)

    Jackons AP shell costs more MU (which your are already shelling out for vision) and increases reload time, might not be the DPS increase you think it is and remember if a panther decides to charge in Jackson=dead. You are slower and cannot even reliably pen it.

    Also instead of trying to insult my game play just post you 4s rank and call it good.

    If your 'just use your faction's strengths rhetoric had ANY grounding in thre game the winrates (all the way up to players that are better than both of us) would not be what they are and you'd see more allied players in team games. Seriously. Stop. You are talking complete nonsense recommending the worst tactics and disregarding winrates and playrates.

    i dont even know what my rank is, i play for fun and value things like logic and knowledge more than rank. feel free to search me up and let me know how invalid my opinion is, but as you informed me, its possible to make it to the top rank and not actually know what your units strengths are (like high mobility for example) meaning its entirely possible to have got there on the backs of your team or straight up RNG

    as for the second point, 4s are more RNG than any mode, i dont deny that the usf have alot of squishy units, nor that the okw especially excel in 4s, but pretending that one of the slowest most expensive units in the game is the reason while its 100% possible to kill it without taking ANY return fire AT ALL is bullshit, especially in team games where its possible to combine things like mark target and ram or all front recon and bullshit arty cover to shut down anything that looks remotely scary

  • #78
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071

    @WunderKatze said:

    It's not about OP units

    Actually it is - thanks for reading my post.

    @WunderKatze said:
    Seriously. Stop. You are talking complete nonsense

    The wisest thing you've ever said - now if only you'd listen to yourself.

    Also before you continue to go on and on about how indestructible a KT is I might as well embarrass you by letting you know that it's the exact same armor and HP as an IS-2.

  • #79
    2 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468

    "If you are expecting ANYTHING to get in a slugging match with the single most expensive unit in the game i have no idea why you are posting in balance. Instead of bitching about the okw advantages, make use of your own."

    ^ That, +1. Agreed with 100%.

    It's like people don't understand the concept of "expensive" or "high quality" or "endgame"

    It's like they expect to Toyota Corolla to outclass a Ferrari 488, because THEY say so, or because it SHOULD be convenient for them.

    And that's not even that good of an example because a single jackson (and i scream to the heavens why this stupid change was ever allowed!) CAN and DOES hold back a King tiger all on it's own. Not to mention you can only have one KT. How many jacksons can you field? As many as you want really, as long as you have the pop cap, and it's not they are expensive. Need more damage??? Boom hit that cheesy button, that flat increases their armor pen; this ability is granted by default, no doctrine needed.

  • #80
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731

    @eonfigure
    @Lazarus
    @thedarkarmadillo

    Well maybe you guys should all get on play the allies and change the winrates if you are so sure that you can do this. I've said what I've come to say and I'm leaving with the same feeling which is that you guys have no connection to the reality of the game and your poor rhetoric might have lagged the progress of game balance.

    I'm tired of a endless heavy tank vs. TD meta. I'm tired of the same OKW strategy the single game and I'm tired of units like the IR, walking Stuka and Obers that promote a small number of viable counter strategies and before you recommend any more stupid strategies you might want to take the winrates and the persisting drop in allied players as a sigh that it ISNT working. I'll have you know I spend majority of my time playing less popular commanders, particularly infantry, airborne and rifle company but i can't help but notice that players make a lot more progress with the pershing and calliope because IMO OKW creates a meta that favors those units. I have no qualms with OST other than the Stuka bomb and sometimes I feel the panthers AT and high armor makes mediums obsolete. In fact I get a lot of fun game play fighting them. Not with OKW.

    Also seriously be careful with the straw man tactics. You guys don't care much to hear what I think should be changed so don't go replying that 'wunderkatze thinks a single jackson should beat a KT.' It's pitiful. It's lazy and its criminal so stop it. Seriously. I am saying quite explicitly OKW has a number of obtuse mechanics that have a very small number of solutions namely IR half track, walking stuka, KT and jadg tiger. And I find it hilarious that you believe in these magic tactics that nobody has ever tried yet and then proceed to list all of the worst units and commanders in the game and THEN tell me that I'm not doing it right when I'm a) higher rank and b) some of what I say is just echoing the pros. The winrates are there and the allied playing number count is sitting right there. You have to argue against that not me.

  • #81
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071
    @WunderKatze The real irony is that you seem to think we think OKW is fine when weve all stated that Volks are well OP - which by the way would impact winrates that youve cited. Perhaps put more effort in to reading our posts, taking advice and learning to play the game and less time posting your victim complex
  • #82
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited May 2017

    @Lazarus What's your rank? Anyways all you guys have been doing is creating a buff nerf circle for volks. I'm not interested in that.

  • #83
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071
    My ranks dad could beat up your ranks dad
  • #84
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731
    edited May 2017

    @Lazarus said:
    My ranks dad could beat up your ranks dad

    Lol. You're the one trying to sell advice to me. I'm going to ask. It's the only way I can gauge how much time you put into the game.

  • #85
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071
    More than 2,000 hours. Now lets put our dicks and the tape measure away and have a balance discussion
  • #86
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731

    @Lazarus said:
    More than 2,000 hours. Now lets put our dicks and the tape measure away and have a balance discussion

    I tried and you guys fired away with the staw man attacks and fixated on nothing important. Try these:

    Free AA? Why?

    Why should the walking stuka pick an fire axis? Why does it need to be able to bomb multiple team weapons.

    The incendiary needs a short timer to prevent it from being spammed in infantry fights.

  • #87
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071
    Why do I have to answer those things? They arent the points I took issue with. Just because you were hilariously wrong about the other stuff doesnt mean I need to answer every single issue you vomit up.

    Also you dont seem to know what strawman attacks are. Google the definition and spend time fully grasping it before invoking it.
  • #88
    2 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434
    I challenge the perpetrator to a 1v1
  • #89
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498
    edited May 2017

    @Lazarus said:
    Why do I have to answer those things? They arent the points I took issue with. Just because you were hilariously wrong about the other stuff doesnt mean I need to answer every single issue you vomit up.

    Also you dont seem to know what strawman attacks are. Google the definition and spend time fully grasping it before invoking it.

    He's asking because it's how people gauge how well others know the game and their credibility to go blasting others about game balance.

  • #90
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,071

    @captainjordy said:

    @Lazarus said:
    Why do I have to answer those things? They arent the points I took issue with. Just because you were hilariously wrong about the other stuff doesnt mean I need to answer every single issue you vomit up.

    Also you dont seem to know what strawman attacks are. Google the definition and spend time fully grasping it before invoking it.

    He's asking because it's how people gauge how well others know the game and their credibility to go blasting others about game balance.

    Actually he's asking as a matter of obfuscation. Rather then deal with the fact that his balance complaints from page 2 were all mostly unfounded and refuted by a few people, he has shifted the focus to something else and asked me to defend an undefendable position that is not my position, which incidentally is what a strawman argument is.

  • #91
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 731

    @Lazarus said:
    Rather then deal with the fact that his balance complaints from page 2 were all mostly unfounded and refuted by a few people.

    What the hell? You just straw manned the entire time. No one talked about my points. You just said stupid bullshit and I got bored. Seriously. You recommended that I use Recon company. Good fucking job. And when I ask show me how well that works out, what rank did it get you to? You can't say.

    90% of what you guys say are in direct conflict with what pros and mr_smith (who balances the game) says. So lets get something straight. NO ONE REFUTED MY POINTS, NO ONE EVEN DISCUSSED THEM. instead you spent your fucking time defending the faction with the HIGHEST fucking winratio in the game and telling me how good the faction tied for the LOWEST winratio is. Good fucking job.

    Here's an example of how out of the fucking loop you guys are. It's pathological. You spent the last few pages raving about the Jackson for no reason. Here's what mr_smith said about it in the team games meta thread.

    "Yes, there are a ton of crappy stock units that would have to be fixed (e.g., Jacksons/Conscripts)." -mr_smith

    You like that? COMPARABLE TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CONSCRIPTS. Again great fucking job.

    @Lazarus said:
    They arent the points I took issue with. Just because you were hilariously wrong about the other stuff doesnt mean I need to answer every single issue you vomit up.

    I don't even know what to say at this point. You won't tell me your rank, you don't discuss my points and you have to stupid audacity to say you defeated my points. Here's a tip. A valuable life lesson. You don't just get to pick what points you address.

    I don't want another Volk buff - nerf circle. It's obviously not working.

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