[OST&SOV] Eastern Front Faction Revamp Mod

#1
2 years ago
Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647
edited May 2017 in Balance Feedback

I've noticed that there isn't an open thread for the proposed changes the balance team have released to the community. Though the mod is by no means a preview of an official balance patch, it does allow the team to show the community what their intentions and ideas are focused for the future, that is if relic decides to widen the scope for them to allow such changes.

The link over at coh2.org - https://www.coh2.org/topic/61465/eastern-front-armies-revamp-by-the-unofficial-balance-team

So far I do think its great that they are looking to address the phenomonal amount of overshadowed, underpowered or downright unusable content that exists within the vanilla factions, alongside tweaking and adding certain things like unique vet abilities to help refine and strengthen unit and faction design and theme.

There are certain changes like the panther damage increase and the OST tech rework that I'm not completely on board with, but overall things are shaping up very nicely. Changes like finally making cons actually viable, nerfing the stuka lol bomb, not too mention removing partisan cheese and sharpening up heavy vehicles like the IS-2, tiger and ISU-152 so that they aren't completely eclipsed in terms of performance by the likes of the Pershing or KT are a godsnd that will really help to revamp the meta.

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Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,668

    Some changes are nice, but most is completely random and out of place.

    Elephant is airburst artillery now at vet1?
    Partisans(both variants) effectively removed from the game, clearly useless if you want to use them as infiltration unit, same for stormtroopers.
    Shock value was -not- reduces on these units, it was effectively removed and its pointless to call them in during combat as that'll be a resource waste.
    Soviet FHQ gutted completely and one would have to be completely insane to even have the commander in the loudout anymore.
    222 was made into a light tank while M20 and Greyhound cry in a corner, both being horribly overpriced and underperforming.
    Sandbag health normalized, ignoring the fact that soviet sandbags take as much place as 2-3 segments of normal sandbags, making them incomparable easier to destroy.
    Nerf of tripwire-why all soviet infantry still have it is the real question.
    Why demo charge was nerfed into the ground, but goliath wasn't is beyond me, they serve the same role, goliath shouldn't be special snowflake here.
    Why DSHK AP rounds were moved to vet1? They are nowhere near as good as MG42 ones.
    Why DSHK was completely gutted without cost decrease?
    Why delay on T34/76? There were people actually struggling against them?
    If ISU HE was made into KV-2 mirror, why still have these two as separate units? They no longer have unique identity.

    No wonder Relic kept them on tight leash with scope of changes as they want a completely different faction there.

  • #3
    2 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 2,006
    edited May 2017

    Utter rubbish.
    -Grenadiers are further gimped by making even Conscripts, the only squad they had an advantage against, similar in power.
    -0.667 rate of deflection on the ISU makes you wonder why they even bother to put armour values on Axis tanks at all, seeing how an ever increasing amount of abilities and vehicles deal deflection damage, invalidating the supposed armour advantage of the Axis.
    -The buffs for the Pz IV are a joke. It will remain crap vs. infantry and now got a token pen increase which puts its pen still below that of the Sherman.
    -The Brummbär is already an unused vehicle. Nerfing its pen, making it more single-purpose wont fix that.
    -Why take away the armour vet on the Panther?

    I could go on, but generally speaking it seems to me like there is a lof of buffs for Soviets while most Wehrmacht changes are tweaks, trading one thing for another.

  • #5
    2 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 2,006
    edited May 2017

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Hingie said:
    -Why take away the armour vet on the Panther?

    You kidding? 320 armor is plenty, and it gets an 20% HP buff at vet 2, it does not also need to go 350 armor. It should get an 30% accuracy bonus at vet 2 instead (panther currently gets no acc bonuses except for on-the-move accuracy bonus for OKW panther at vet 5, so none really).

    The survivability of a vet 2 panther is just silly and unnecessary. I don't think it's main gun is accurate enough, but one thing it does not need assistance in is surviving.

    Its also the most expensive single-purpose vehicle aside from super-heavy tanks, but lets forget that and look at what they wrote, not what you think they should have written. They took away the armour buff and moved the survivability to Vet 3. Means all vet 3 now gives for the Wehr Panther is 160 HP.

    And I better hope a vet 2 Panther to be very survivable because getting one to that point is already rather hard, not to mention vet 3. So if I manage to grind a Panther up to vet 3 without it falling prey to the Allied TD masses which still are the norm thanks to unchanged infantry superiority, I expect it to be outstandingly durable.

  • #6
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,093

    I'm quite happy with how it's shaping up. Definitely still needs work but it's getting there. Ditching the armor and moving the HP for Panther to vet 3 seems like it'll keep counters relevant for a much bigger window. I'm only slightly concerned that the price and tech might still make it a bit of a dud choice, but I wanna try a few more things before I make a final ruling.

    Partisan changes are great from both perspectives. I can call in a unit that's viable for more than 20 seconds after it has popped in, with massive utility including scouting and mine laying - easily the 2 most important tools to winning as Soviets. It's not a shock unit anymore but frankly I don't care, it was dumb when these things just popped up in active combat zones and immediately tipped the scales so hard there was no recovery. Now you need just the slightest bit of forethought when calling them in so you can hide them and prepare them.

    Trip wire flares have been either replaced or now come in conjunction with a passive bonus so Soviet vet 1 is nowhere near useless anymore. Guards get hit the dirt, Shocks get spammable smoke, Cons get a bit more dodge and Penals have their passive. What Soviet infantry still just gets trip flares at vet 1?

    Goliath wasnt nerfed because you dont need sweepers to detect it. Literally all you need are ears but if listening for it is difficult vecause gunfire there's the fact that it obeys normal camo rules and gets shot to ribbons as long as you dont trip over it at a corner or get smoked on to it (lol okw smoke). If THATS not a good enough reason how about because its doctrinal and in one of OKWs worst doctrines, and if THATS not good enough how about because this is an EFA rework and the W in OKW doesnt stand for East.

    The ISU and Ele changes to make them both multirole somewhat concerns me though. I fear the old super-td meta may be able to make a comeback.

  • #7
    2 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951
    edited May 2017

    @Lazarus said:
    Snip...

    This. So much this. Both factions had all of their cheesiest wipes and BS killed and a lot of their biggest problems fixed. Soviets can field their t2 and/or cons again without shooting themselves in the face while the Ost's T4 is actually viable in 1v1s. Don't get me wrong, its not perfect, there's still changes to be made for sure, changes that aren't quite on the nose or things that got overlooked, but I'd happily take this over another year of cheesy bullshit in a new flavor.

    EDIT: Also, yeah, Elephant seems a little odd, but I haven't seen it in action yet, so no idea, it could be decently balanced with airburst shells now that it doesn't 2-shot mediums.

  • #8
    2 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @Lazarus said:
    Trip wire flares have been either replaced or now come in conjunction with a passive bonus so Soviet vet 1 is nowhere near useless anymore. Guards get hit the dirt, Shocks get spammable smoke, Cons get a bit more dodge and Penals have their passive. What Soviet infantry still just gets trip flares at vet 1?

    Lend Lease Guards. That's only because they're already scary-powerful, and also because we don't know what to give them that doesn't look like Tactical Advance.

    Goliath wasnt nerfed because you dont need sweepers to detect it. Literally all you need are ears but if listening for it is difficult vecause gunfire there's the fact that it obeys normal camo rules and gets shot to ribbons as long as you dont trip over it at a corner or get smoked on to it (lol okw smoke). If THATS not a good enough reason how about because its doctrinal and in one of OKWs worst doctrines, and if THATS not good enough how about because this is an EFA rework and the W in OKW doesnt stand for East.

    We will be moving to WFA/Brits, after we're happy with what EFA looks like. Focusing on 1 matchup (with 20+ commanders), rather than spreading thin on 6 matchup at once will let us apply the necessary polish, before we use the lessons learned to improve the other 3 factions.

    For maintenance reasons, we've only changed WFA/Brits when we've fixed a bug/added a no-brainer feature that was easy to deploy.

    The ISU and Ele changes to make them both multirole somewhat concerns me though. I fear the old super-td meta may be able to make a comeback.

    ISU was always multirole; it was just that the AP rounds weren't really worth it. It's still the only vehicle in the game that can't fire while moving/rotating.

    Elefant lost its ability to assassinate medium tanks in the blink of an eye (especially TD's). This will come useful when we get around to rebalancing USF which is forced to rely on paper tanks for the late-game. Airburst shells are a compensation for that.

    They're good enough for area denial, or opening up an assault.

  • #9
    2 years ago
    ofieldofield Posts: 630
    edited May 2017

    Agree with Katitof. Most of the changes don't even make sense and are in the category "Don't fix what ain't broke"

  • #10
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited May 2017

    @Hingie said:
    Its also the most expensive single-purpose vehicle aside from super-heavy tanks, but lets forget that and look at what they wrote, not what you think they should have written. They took away the armour buff and moved the survivability to Vet 3. Means all vet 3 now gives for the Wehr Panther is 160 HP.

    And +40% weapon rotation speed.... Firefly gets 30% accuracy and +80 dmg at vet 3, seems fair to me.

    And you left out the other parts of what they wrote, which included increasing its damage to 200, which justifies NOT going with my recommendation of giving it more accuracy with vet. That said I think same damage and better reload/acc with vet is a better route. Reliability over damage IMO.

  • #11
    2 years ago
    Mr_RuinMr_Ruin Posts: 92

    I like that they are finally changing OstHeer teching cause it was either T3 or T4 for a lot of games, and it seems there will be a lot more possibilities to combine them now which will open up some new strategies. Pz4 and Pz5 charging across the field? Stugs defending Raketenwerfers? Etc. Nice.

    Changes to Ferdinand are somewhat strange. Airburst HE shells working only from range 60 to 70? Seems too much niche to be usefull. But we will see.

    Call-ins tied to tech level should be for all armies, not just Ost ones so I hope they will do it that way.

    Fuel cost on emplacements which are mostly blown up the moment they are spotted an targeted by non map arty? I think they should get a survivability buff as well. So many ML20 end up as a wreck after their first barage.

    Making conscripts viable is a great decision and it will open up tactics for Soviets. Increasing fuel cost but decreasing manpower cost for t34 seems nice on paper cause manpower is the main bottleneck for Soviets, but we will see.

    But to me it seems that will leave Grenadiers the weakest main infantry unit in the game cause they are quite susceptible to mines, snipers and other wipes cause there is only 4 of them in a squad. And having only PzGrens as non doc and Assaul Grens, Stormtroopers and Osttruppen as doctrinal infantry to me it seems OstHeer will have all-round worst infantry in the game cause PzGrens are medium to close combat and are often focus fired before they come that close and Assault Grens and Osttruppen are mostly early game units with both falling off late game against Allied elites like Paratroopers, Rangers, Guards, Shock and double Bren(Vickers K) Infantry Section. Maybe give them an ability to upgrade fifth member later on like the Brits?

  • #12
    2 years ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,060
    edited June 2017

    Nice job with removal of Partisans and Urban defence. Now i see great future for EFA rebalance.
    Don't forget Penals and SU-76. Their usuage must be stoped too. Like Dshk.
    Hit the dirt has been fixed? I don't see it.

  • #13
    2 years ago
    AceOfTitaniumAceOfTita… Posts: 195
    Personal opinion:

    -The elefant HE barrage doesnt make any sense, things need to keep being somewhat realistic after all it is a TD not and AI. Why not make the elefant and brummbar the weaker/smaller versions of the feared jagdtiger and the sturmtiger? I think you should be looking to make the brummbar easier to use instead of needing to use attack ground to be effective, this can be pretty hard to do/know about for new players and in relation to the elefant, lowering its movement speed and/or rear armor should do the trick.

    -The katyusha incendiary creeping barrage also doesnt make sense, why not just give it a regular creeping barrage with double the rockets when it reaches vet 2/3?

    -Dont know about demos, no one wants a demo to "secure flanks", for that you can plant regular mines and maybe put one hmg there and not worry about having to keep an eye of the flank (so much). Dont know what to do with demos to be honest, some suggestions would be nice to give some inspiration.

    -M-42 stealth is great but garrison buildings is a no go.
    Speaking of stealth, why not make all at guns that can steath not move while doing so? This would fix que abuse of sneaking at guns to capture points.

    -Although partisans arent ridiculous anymore they are now not worth it at all, maybe buff them in some way? or else no one will use the commander/unit.

    -Forward headquarters are still frustrating, why not restrict the player to only deploy one at a time? There is no need for one player to make every building a FHQ...

    -Still think that the t3/t4/bf3/bf4 system you guys are experimenting with is a mess and confusing. Why not just make the bf3 and bf4 give certain buffs to pios (key unit), for example "bf4 gives pios +50% repair rate" (then adjust the veterancy on pios accordingly), and unlock t3/t4. And to make t4 more desirable (and other factions tiers too!) remove the call in meta and place those tanks in tiers for instance "want a elefant? you need t4, want a m4c sherman? you need t4" and so on (again adjust the prices of teching accordingly). This way you would fix the cheese that are call in tanks like you kinda did with partisans.

    -Give vet to removing mines and getting mine kills is a great idea because it needs skill (know where to place the mine) and one can lose muni if the enemy finds the mine, this way engineers can earn xp outside combat.
  • #14
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @AceOfTitanium said:

    -Dont know about demos, no one wants a demo to "secure flanks", for that you can plant regular mines and maybe put one hmg there and not worry about having to keep an eye of the flank (so much). Dont know what to do with demos to be honest, some suggestions would be nice to give some inspiration.

    Best bet would be to obviously wipe models, but not one hit ko the squad. Have it pin them for a set duration where they can't retreat, but remove the RA bonus units first recieve when pinned, instead leave them vunerable so units can effectively pick them off quickly. That way demos require more player input that click a button, but also gives the player on the recieving end time to react, whether that is to throw down smoke, ward of enemy troops with offmaps or rush vehicles ahead to protect them until they can pull back.

  • #15
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 696
    I dont know bout changing demo,s. Ive been on the receiving end of demo's as well. Its far from impossible to counter but they keep you on your toes.

    One doesnt always notice when you can detonate it and miss plenty oppertunities like this. And minesweepers make this even more likely. Half the demo's that are put down result in no kills, at least in my games. Its a expensive charge and requires constant attention to get those wipes.

    The demo is the soviet faction flavor next to 6 men squads and weapon teams while mostly having less punch then others. its hardy game over if you loose a squad to a demo. Its anoying to face but not game breaking.
  • #16
    2 years ago
    AceOfTitaniumAceOfTita… Posts: 195
    edited June 2017

    To be honest I dont see much of a problem with demos (although they should be locked behind a commander like usf demos) you only get your squads wiped if you aren't paying attention when playing vs soviets and versus certain usf commanders.
    One idea that would make demos less painful would be to add a delay (something small, maybe 2 secs) to when the player clicks to detonate and add an warning noise (clock ticking?) to the other player kinda like stuka dive bomb has, this way the other player would at least have a few seconds to try to react but nothing major because one should at some point have sweepers and be careful with such things.

  • #17
    2 years ago
    DannyJDannyJ Posts: 10

    Mostly uncalled for and sentimental changes.

    I am still praying for an industry professional balance designer. Do it relic, this game is worth it.

  • #18
    2 years ago

    I agree with all the changes except 3 things:
    -Demo charges should remain the same, it requires attention to activate, and anyone stupid enough to be blobbing without a sweeper deserves the pain it inflicts
    -Panzerfusliers shouldn't get camo, they aren't infiltration units
    -Fallschirms and Obers shouldn't be made cheaper, this will only encourage them to be blobbed

    @DannyJ said:
    Mostly uncalled for and sentimental changes.

    I am still praying for an industry professional balance designer. Do it relic, this game is worth it.

    FYI those ''industry professionals'' did such a good job that balance was given over to community seniors.

  • #19
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @For the rest of his life said:
    I agree with all the changes except 3 things:

    -Panzerfusliers shouldn't get camo, they aren't infiltration units

    "Panzerfusiliers

    • Population from 6 to 7
    • Vet2 bonus: 1.15 capture and decapture rate.
    • Vet4 bonus: Passive Sprint
    • Flare cost reduced from 45MU to 30MU"

    They do not get camo.

  • #20
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    Meanwhile panther is full crap from stock and anyway never vet up to 2 unless 4vs4 shitshow.
    125 fuel tank destroyers pinppint accurate even on the move and with higher range.

    This is a joke lmao XD

    Teching is not the problem of tier 4.
    Not even okw players uses panther...
  • #21
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,823
    @SAY_MY_NAME you cant look at just 1 stat. Does the panther need a buff? Yea i think it does, but you cant bitch about haw shitty its gun is (which isnt even THAT shitty, it just needs to be more accurate, especially when stationary but it STILL has more mgs, much more armour (most armoured stock unit that isnt the king tiger) more health and solid speed.

    The panther will beat any non tank destroyer in a slugging match, including the comet (finally) with reliable outcomes. If you want a tank destroyer that will out gun, out range AND take a beating you are lucky, both axis factions have case mate monsters to do JUST that. But that isnt the panthers role.
  • #22
    2 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited June 2017

    The Panther is shit, because as mobile tank-hunter StuG is better. He can only benefit from his armor on long range, but its range is too low for that bad fire rate. PaK40 + Panzer 4 is a MUCH better combo.

    There is only ONE way to balance all mobile tank-hunter with a tower in that game easy and without much changes. I have no idea why nobody is doing it. (I tested it in my mod). Firefly, Jackson, Panther 50 range, if stationary (not moving) +10 range extra = 60. Remove extra range at hull-down for Panther. Damage of all normal tank-hunter to 180. And please... give Firefly and Jackson same hit-ground as Panther (middle-shell), that huge explosion is nonsense.

    So SU85 become special, only tank-hunter with mobile 60 range. Damage buff to 160.

    PaK40 range from 60 to 65 and damage from 160 to 170.
    PaK43 to an emplacement, not interleave world object anymore.

    T34/76 frontal armor to 180.
    T34/85 frontal armor to 200.

    All AT-snares damage_mulitblier for tp_heavy to 180 damage. Change main effect to crew_freeze if penetrate. Animation will end if target move 10 range out of position. Engine damage when 50% health left. So you can counter heavys more easy in blitz actions. (one snare, 2 hits by SU85, one snare = 1280-180-170-170-180=580 and engine damage) on other side you can save heavys more easy, because no engine damage if they fale. = more micro! And light vehicles will be able to dodge, because of no engine damage by one hit.

    It can be so easy...

  • #23
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited June 2017
    > @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    > @SAY_MY_NAME you cant look at just 1 stat. Does the panther need a buff? Yea i think it does, but you cant bitch about haw shitty its gun is (which isnt even THAT shitty, it just needs to be more accurate, especially when stationary but it STILL has more mgs, much more armour (most armoured stock unit that isnt the king tiger) more health and solid speed.
    >
    > The panther will beat any non tank destroyer in a slugging match, including the comet (finally) with reliable outcomes. If you want a tank destroyer that will out gun, out range AND take a beating you are lucky, both axis factions have case mate monsters to do JUST that. But that isnt the panthers role.

    I'm paying 200 fuel for an armored carrying shit with 3 mg that are togheter inferior to t34 coaxial on an armor ?

    The panther role is tank destroyer.
    It pays more because it has tank armor, turret and mobility.
    It is still a tank destroyer

    And such rof + accuracy + range do make panther gun ubershit.
    Or put the price tag to 125 and make it a brawler tank.
    But for 200 fuel it can't be "it has it's role of tank countering but suck at td countering"
    Stug does both for 90 fuel
    Jadgpanzer does both for 110 fuel.

    Right now it's overpriced shit.
  • #24
    2 years ago
    DannyJDannyJ Posts: 10
    edited June 2017

    @DannyJ said:
    Mostly uncalled for and sentimental changes.

    I am still praying for an industry professional balance designer. Do it relic, this game is worth it.

    FYI those ''industry professionals'' did such a good job that balance was given over to community seniors.

    Wrong. They left coh2 to work on another projects.

    And funnily enough, they valued community feedback more than the so called community-balance-team (Which only consists of two inflexible guys) do.

    Way to communicate and work with the community;

    https://www.coh2.org/topic/62083/western-front-armies-revamp/post/618557

  • #25
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588
    edited June 2017

    Panzer IV:

    • Penetration increased from 120/110/100 to 125/115/110

    Finally P4s will be able to penetrate those light tanks...

    T-34-85:

    • Cost changed from 380MP/130FU to 365MP/140FU
    • Near penetration increased from 160 to 200

    Seriously, whats the point of 200 penetration on this tank? we encourage frontal assault instead of flanking now? Like the 800hp would not be enough...

    The IS2 is now a KT...

    There are some good changes, but i really hope the majority of these changes will not make it live.

    P.s.:

    This for example...

    Tiger Ace
    We are changing the Tiger Ace mechanic to make it more fair (both ways), while keeping it unique.

    • Cost changed from 800MP to 720MP/240FU (with buildings)
    • Penalties reduced from -25%MP -90% (forever) FU to -20% MP -50% FU for 8 minutes

    ...is very bad. This completely changes the design of the unit. There is already a thread about TA in this forum. The concept of this tank is a last resort unit... thats why you can call-in only a single one in a whole match. Putting such a high price on it completely ruins the design imo. You pay a complete price and also pay extra price in "tax" over 8 minute? whats the point? if its 240 you cannot call it in as a last resort unit.. and when you can afford it it will not be a last resort unit anymore, since you could afford anything else.

    Also with such price, whats the point of the 17CP and the 1 unit / match limits? I previously thought this unit is currently overcharged with penalties, but with these changes i doubt that anyone would choose it over a regular Tiger.

  • #26
    2 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @DannyJ said:

    @DannyJ said:
    Mostly uncalled for and sentimental changes.

    I am still praying for an industry professional balance designer. Do it relic, this game is worth it.

    FYI those ''industry professionals'' did such a good job that balance was given over to community seniors.

    Wrong. They left coh2 to work on another projects.

    And funnily enough, they valued community feedback more than the so called community-balance-team (Which only consists of two inflexible guys) do.

    Way to communicate and work with the community;

    https://www.coh2.org/topic/62083/western-front-armies-revamp/post/618557

    To my defence, I was responding to somebody that was deliberately trying to twist the facts.

    In this follow-up post, I explain more specifically about why that person's analysis was not based on facts:
    https://www.coh2.org/topic/62083/western-front-armies-revamp/post/618566

    We are doing our best to create the best possible mod.

    In order to do that, we require access to good feedback. We can also tolerate bad feedback (e.g., by pointing out the misconceptions). However, we cannot tolerate malicious feedback.

    The poster I was responding to must have obviously misread something and flew off in a theoretical tangent while attacking the effort. At the same the poster did not bother to do any fact-checking on his own.

    In the future we will just try to altogether ignore malicious feedback.

  • #27
    2 years ago
    DannyJDannyJ Posts: 10

    @Mr_Smith said:

    In the future we will just try to altogether ignore malicious feedback.

    You consider it malicious because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. We have too many people frowning upon OKW-OST nerfs complemented by USF-SOV buffs, yet their concerns are ignored and labeled as "acid sulphuric bullshit and bitching"

    Since you are chosen (I DON'T know by who) to represent the voice and concerns of the whole community and work on the game to make it better for everyone, I think it is more civil to respect all feedback, bet from an axis player or an allied one.

  • #28
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @DannyJ

    And we also have too many community members bitching about the current state of a revamp test mod, you know, instead of trying to give positive, constructive feedback like the creators have asked for. Plus Relic listening to the community?

    Jeez.... did you never encounter windustry? the original tiger ace? The recent combined arms bug that took them weeks to fix, or the near nine months of us turbo mortar... Sure, good ol lelic taking a well varied and balanced amount of feedback from the community, before implementing some half cocked idea or change that brings yet another half dozen weeks/months of problems.

    Both mrsmith and miragefla have dedicated alot of time and effort, not only to perform hundreds of fixes, QOL changes and glitches left over from Relic's half arsed attempts to fufil the full life cycle of coh2, but also represent the technical part of the community that is willing to help free of charge to fully balance the game. They do so out of their own time, and we should all be thankful that they are willing to provide their knowleged and skill in doing so.

    Judge them on their stellar work for the previous two WB and GCS patches, both of which have been fantastic at ending alot of the crappy cheese left over from Relics work, not on a huge, half finished project that has every raging fan-boy in the community screeching because they haven't quite nailed down the final version of a certain unit, faction and ability.

  • #29
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271

    @DannyJ said:
    You consider it malicious because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. We have too many people frowning upon OKW-OST nerfs complemented by USF-SOV buffs, yet their concerns are ignored and labeled as "acid sulphuric bullshit and bitching"

    No he considered it twisting the facts because the guy was representing the Panther changes as nothing but a nerf, which wasn't true.

    He was picked by Relic to do the modding, and they did so because he's more familiar with that work than 99.9% of the playerbase, including yourself.

  • #30
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited June 2017

    Actually OKW has been nerfed but it has also received a cost reduction and faster vetting:

    Panther

    • Combat Blitz bonuses changed
    • 0.8 Received Accuracy, 1.25 accuracy, 1.15 speed (Nerf)
    • Population from 16 to 18 (Nerf)
    • Moving scatter from 1.7 to 2 (to match other tanks) (Nerf)
    • Moving accuracy from 0.65 to 5 (to match other tanks) (Nerf)
    • Mid accuracy increased to revamp-mod OST Panther (buff)
    • Cost from 490/200 to 510/185. (buff)
      Damage remain 160 although Ostheer damage is now 200.

    • Vet2 bonus: provides +10 sight when stationary after 5 seconds.

    • Vet3 armor bonus removed (+20% health, +40% weapon rotation speed?)
    • Vet4 bonus: 0.8 Received Accuracy, 1.1 accuracy and 1.1 speed

    The vet bonus are lower but the units is actually vetting faster.

    (units has lost if not mistaken
    vet 2 +10% armour
    vet 4 +10% range -25% scatter
    vet 5 +25% accuracy on the move, +11 sight radius )

    (There are allot of really non constructive feed back in those threads which is unfair to people who do voluntary work to help them game. Providing replays that demonstrates ones point is far more helpful)

  • #31
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited June 2017

    @Vipper said:
    Actually OKW has been nerfed but it has also received a cost reduction and faster vetting:

    I said the guy described it as "nothing but a nerf", since he focused exclusively on the moving accuracy change. As you just pointed out, it was a nerf with some positive trade-offs.

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