Fall Balance Preview Feedback

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  • #362
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,790
    Kuble has no right being even a soft counter to the m3, what is it? A 60mp and 15 fuel difference? And a required tech
  • #363
    1 year ago

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    Kuble has no right being even a soft counter to the m3, what is it? A 60mp and 15 fuel difference? And a required tech

    Consequentially the only counter should be the most inaccurate atg with the lowest range ?

    Seems good....

    And yeah...with the old armor it (kinda) worked in damaging the ht with volks......

  • #364
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,790
    edited August 2017

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    Kuble has no right being even a soft counter to the m3, what is it? A 60mp and 15 fuel difference? And a required tech

    Consequentially the only counter should be the most inaccurate atg with the lowest range ?

    Seems good....

    And yeah...with the old armor it (kinda) worked in damaging the ht with volks......

    so because the rakk isnt working properly lets make a bulletproof, fast capping, no bleed car thats cheaper than any non engineer squad?
    OR
    we could...fix the rakk?

    also the only counter ISNT the rakk, it also takes damage from bullets, its front armour is slightly higher and its rear is actually lower than the live kuble so... i mean if they can kill your kuble you can kill their 15 fuel + tech M3

  • #365
    1 year ago

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    Kuble has no right being even a soft counter to the m3, what is it? A 60mp and 15 fuel difference? And a required tech

    Consequentially the only counter should be the most inaccurate atg with the lowest range ?

    Seems good....

    And yeah...with the old armor it (kinda) worked in damaging the ht with volks......

    so because the rakk isnt working properly lets make a bulletproof, fast capping, no bleed car thats cheaper than any non engineer squad?
    OR
    we could...fix the rakk?

    also the only counter ISNT the rakk, it also takes damage from bullets, its front armour is slightly higher and its rear is actually lower than the live kuble so... i mean if they can kill your kuble you can kill their 15 fuel + tech M3

    Fun fact...kuble live is much less bulletproof than m3...
    The fact that kubel can bleed dry manpower...well applies to m3 as well, as it takes 0 skills in retreating it to the enemy after the health decresed and....what was that ?... oh yeah get "free right off the bat repairs"...
    How are simple bullets a counter

    Fix the rak ? Doesn't seem mod agenda (i wonder if they actually follow pro tournaments)
    The only change to raketen will actually make raketen itself weaker against vehicles rushes.

    Add that the price of raketen is relatively cheap, so the gun isn't unbalanced, simply isn't meant to counter early light vehicles...

    Either switching it with OST pak or giving OKW same grenadiers panzerfaust in range and right off the bat are much more balanced solutions.......

  • #366
    1 year ago
    Revert the hitbox change from british mortar pits. From a common sense standpoint hitting something that big with indirect fire (or perhaps even a cannon) shouldn't be that hard.

    Also, forcing players to assault them with infantry is absurd since they're almost always defended by bofors.

    As a second point, and speaking again to hitbox size, countering mortar pits with bigger, longer ranged artillery weapons like doctrine howitzers should be a viable tactic.
  • #367
    1 year ago

    @Lucerious ha detto:
    Revert the hitbox change from british mortar pits. From a common sense standpoint hitting something that big with indirect fire (or perhaps even a cannon) shouldn't be that hard.

    Also, forcing players to assault them with infantry is absurd since they're almost always defended by bofors.

    As a second point, and speaking again to hitbox size, countering mortar pits with bigger, longer ranged artillery weapons like doctrine howitzers should be a viable tactic.

    True that.

  • #368
    1 year ago
    > @le12ro said:
    > (moderator input) let's not attack other community members for their player card, shall we? It is pointless and only distracts from the topic.

    I think getting someone to show their player card is a great idea if someone is saying stuff that is completely out of line.
  • #369
    1 year ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited August 2017

    ^

    Basically this... no attack was made, but when someone says completely made up stuff out of line other people may not know it and be misguided.

    Fun fact: Nobody mentioned playercard, and i didn't look at it.

  • #370
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,790
    > @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    > > @le12ro said:
    > > (moderator input) let's not attack other community members for their player card, shall we? It is pointless and only distracts from the topic.
    >
    > I think getting someone to show their player card is a great idea if someone is saying stuff that is completely out of line.

    Now now. This isnt coh2.org. All opinions are welcome, even those that are wrong (in broad, not saying whomever recon replied to was wrong)
  • #371
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited August 2017

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    Consequentially the only counter should be the most inaccurate atg with the lowest range ?

    If it's gonna be buildable from 0 mins, the Rak has to have a few negatives dude. The m3 has lower rear armor than the Kubel and it tends to show its rear armor a lot more often since it dives more often, so the thing is plenty susceptible to bullets for its cost.

    I'm getting very tired of how much people expect from the Kubel. 210mp an absolute steal for what you get in the live version, so its about time it got changed. The freedom it allows OKW infantry in the beginning (as in not needing to backcap with squads whatsoever) is of massive value, so its current status combat-wise is nonsensical.

  • #372
    1 year ago

    @SkysTheLimit ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    Consequentially the only counter should be the most inaccurate atg with the lowest range ?

    If it's gonna be buildable from 0 mins, the Rak has to have a few negatives dude. The m3 has lower rear armor than the Kubel and it tends to show its rear armor a lot more often since it dives more often, so the thing is plenty susceptible to bullets for its cost.

    I'm getting very tired of how much people expect from the Kubel. 210mp an absolute steal for what you get in the live version, so its about time it got changed. The freedom it allows OKW infantry in the beginning (as in not needing to backcap with squads whatsoever) is of massive value, so its current status combat-wise is nonsensical.

    IF the rak has to be the only counter, it has to work.

    MG42 and Vickers are produced from tier 0, and surely aren't penalized for this...

    Timing in this case hardly matter.
    ATG are a counter, not a luchs or a 222 that rushed will NEED A COUNTER.

    Regardless of how much it is subsceptible to bullets, it's less subsceptible than kubel if used properly.

    I don't expect anything by kubel, that is the last of my concern..
    I builded that thing like 4 times over 150+ 1vs1 games as okw..
    I didn't propose a buff or the removal of nerf nontheless, as it would barely change my build orders, only as allies...

    Raketen may be cheap, may become good with vetting, may cloak, may be even superman for what i know...
    If it misses over half range (note that is 25...) 75% of the times and sometimes misses even the second shot (and i can grant you that misses a lot), and free of the risk of snare rushes m3 carrying penals can rush it and decrew it in seconds regardless of firing direction it simply doesn't get the job done at protecting early game against vehicles.

    OST, that has no tier 0 atg, has a MUCH more reliable counter, called mg42, that melt it in seconds, yet grenadiers get cheaper faust right of the bat (and the funny part is that any vehicle that can't be countered by mg42 or ap rounds, so few..., come later than tier 2 pak40).

    WBP aknowledge that the raketen wasn't a good counter to early light, and given the lack of any anti garrison that wasn't flame nade, the 35 muni faust was too expensive compared to grenadiers 25 muni.

  • #373
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    Regardless of how much it is subsceptible to bullets, it's less subsceptible than kubel if used properly.

    How so? The most common use of the m3 I see is still clown car with an Engy flamer. That involves a great deal of exposing the rear armor, since you need to dive at an MG or Garrison for that to work. The scout car needs to be used far more aggressively than the kubel does (has a lower far DPS and again it often dives to transport a squad) so its current armor levels are just fine.

  • #374
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited August 2017

    @Bak said:
    The British tanks are too thick armored that they must nearly fear nothing on the battlefield.

    I think you mean that they have too much health, because the Brits highest armored vehicle only has 6 more armour than OKWs Panzer IV. As for your "tests", those results have little value to us unless you can give us any kind of parameters that you used or have any videos.

    Just from looking at them on the surface, I have to ask what the hell is your point? In any real gameplay scenario there would be at least 1 volks squad in the area, and if you snare a Jackson while its diving for a JagD that Jackson is dying, even with 640 health.

  • #375
    1 year ago

    @SkysTheLimit ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    Regardless of how much it is subsceptible to bullets, it's less subsceptible than kubel if used properly.

    How so? The most common use of the m3 I see is still clown car with an Engy flamer. That involves a great deal of exposing the rear armor, since you need to dive at an MG or Garrison for that to work. The scout car needs to be used far more aggressively than the kubel does (has a lower far DPS and again it often dives to transport a squad) so its current armor levels are just fine.

    I was talking for like 10 posts of giving instant faust to volks like grenadiers for 25 muni...but ok.

  • #376
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,592

    @Bak said:
    Jagttiger tested patch 1.2

    So i tested with a pal the Jagttiger.

    Jagttiger vs Jackson ------- Jackson wins

    Jagttiger with 2 Panzer 4 as Support vs 3 Jacksons ------ Jacksons win..
    1 Jackson survived

    Jagttiger with 2 Panter as Support vs 3 Jacksons --------- Jacksons win..
    1 Jackson survived

    Jagttiger with 2 Panter as Support vs 3 Churchills ------ Churchill wins...
    2 Churchills survived

    Crocodile vs Pak 88 ------Crokodile wins

    in the Batte we have seen that the Jagttiger is fireing very slow and misses sometimes. The incoming Jacksons to fast and maneuverable and will flank the Jagttiger soon.
    And 1 hit in the flank it´s 3 sec stunned....

    The British tanks are too thick armored that they must nearly fear nothing on the battlefield.

    in the future the German TD´s will ...with this patch...Play a lesser role in the gameplay

    Cool tests, remember next time to not put rear side of JT towards opponents in all of them.

  • #377
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited August 2017

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    I was talking for like 10 posts of giving instant faust to volks like grenadiers for 25 muni...but ok.

    I know that, I didnt ask you about this. Read my post again or just stop quoting me on the forums.

  • #378
    1 year ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited August 2017

    @SkysTheLimit ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    I was talking for like 10 posts of giving instant faust to volks like grenadiers for 25 muni...but ok.

    I know that, I didnt ask you about this. Read my post again or just stop quoting me on the forums.

    If i was suggesting for an additional counter, aka snare, to help out an atg, it means that i'd rather give okw proper counterplay because I DON'T THINK that bullets are a counter to m3, and I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD as the m3 itself performs ok for it's cost..

    Doesn't seem sherlock stuff, does it ?

  • #379
    1 year ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @Bak said:
    Typical Tank Match 4vs4

    I found a game where SOE-Sturmpanter Plays Allies, he is one of the modders who is responsible for the patch.
    This game Shows what i seen so often. In lategame there is a massive Allies Tank superiority with arty cover and axis have no Chance against it ....and in this game the Players are saying about unbalanced game ...
    And as you see...the Axis Players have nearly no effective infantry in the lategame most of the infantry are repair squads and the Allied have attack squads

    The video you linked is from the state of the game two patches ago.

    Needless to say, this is completely irrelevant to a thread that is supposed to be about the Fall Balance Preview mod.

  • #380
    1 year ago

    What is relevant is the ludicrous game breaking decision to give mortar a target size of 1 and expect infantry to attack it with a bofors protecting it 99% of the time.

  • #381
    1 year ago
    kingdun3284kingdun32… Posts: 1,090

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    @SkysTheLimit ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    I was talking for like 10 posts of giving instant faust to volks like grenadiers for 25 muni...but ok.

    I know that, I didnt ask you about this. Read my post again or just stop quoting me on the forums.

    If i was suggesting for an additional counter, aka snare, to help out an atg, it means that i'd rather give okw proper counterplay because I DON'T THINK that bullets are a counter to m3, and I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD as the m3 itself performs ok for it's cost..

    Doesn't seem sherlock stuff, does it ?

    Funny fact: USF had to fight against suppressing kubel for years without any snare and ATG at the beginning and people in this forum told me to L2P when I reflected that issue. I think OKW having ATG is better than nothing and axis players are simply be blessed and cared too much. So L2p.

  • #382
    1 year ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229
    edited August 2017

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    I actually think the demo is a necessary evil. It could be altered of course (is it possible to require an engie in range to detonate?)

    I also think the argument could be made that its a team game item, at least as much as FRP are, its actually my soviet counter to FRP enabled attack move blobs, but it might need a buff if it loses its capacity to do that.

    lol people want to nerf demos. I love blowing up demos with my HT and mine detector pio. Horrible waste of muni against experienced Ost players. Most people probably dnt realize you can detect/destroy demos with only a pio in a HT but you can!

  • #383
    1 year ago
    ColonelRadecColonelRa… Posts: 52
    edited August 2017

    Heavies

    There is something that is bugging me and since they are now being adjusted maybe this can change now. It's the damage of some heavies. Although they are limited to one they still feel like they aren't that intimidating, most of the heavies suffer from low damage. I assume this was because they could be build more than one in the old builds, but now since that changed there doesn't seem a reason to still leave the damage like that. As they are, once you have 2 TD's the heavies are the ones in fear. Right now they are just damage sponges. Tigers, Is-2 and Pershing suffer from this, they do 160 damage. Same as the most mediums, which is a shame since they are expensive, doctrinal and limited. In team games they are mostly the prey instead the hunter. There are so many TD's with high damage that as soon it pops up it needs to hide again so that the pioneers can fix it after a few minutes(super slow repair speed at vet 0). Thats why in team games you mostly see medium vehicle spams. They do too low DPS, meanwhile the big numbers win since they do the same damage but in many. No wonder people ignore heavy doctrines in team games since they are a resource trap.

    Solution

    It takes 4 shots to kill a t34 or sherman with 640 health. Yes a heavy needs that many shots to kill ONE medium. They definitely in need of a damage boost to give em that distinction and intimidation. The damage needs to be between 200-240, they still will need more than 4-3 to kill, but now they would hurt and leave them wounded if they escape. 1v1? Well they are still vulnerable to ATG and TDs, not to mention the new premium price which will be a risk factor.

    Ps. The Isu-152 could use a bit more love, increasing the AP round damage from 240-280 to match the new Axis tank destroyers. This tank ain't that reliable to penetrate, at least make it hurt when it does.

    Jackson

    As I was mentioning in the heavy section, the allied(except sov) TD are non doctrinal and pack a mighty punch. Making it a slugger means it would be deadly if spam, so goodbye to heavies and mediums. They have rotating turret and decent speed. Price doesn't mater in team games, it's the effectiveness of the unit and players. How many times have we seen panther spams and before comet spam? Both are expensive and they were spammed.

    Solution

    Reduce the standard damage to 160, now it has the health to fight head on. I don't mind it, but the damage it has now would make it superb. Especially for spamming and to hit hard the mediums and the poor heavies. Leave the AP ability with the same damage, which is 240. With this at least it requires vet and is timed.

    Stug-G

    The role this unit has it's still the same. Which it needs to be spammed and spearhead the enemy. This unit needs to be separated from the rest of the Werh roster and avoid that tactic. Also not to mention to provide a better role, one that the werh is missing which is a long range base TD. Sure the pak is great but not so good at late game or team game which is vulnerable to Arty or Inf spam.

    Solution

    Honestly some people are saying it and yes, maybe it would work and not be op. Give it the same range of the Su-76 which is 60 and very slow reload speed. Swap vet 2 for 3, the reload decreased would be in 3. Price from 280-90 8 pop to 320-120 12 pop. Now in that building you can pick from a decent AT vehicle or an all rounder P4. But wouldn't make this the go to tank of werh now? 12 pop still hurts and the fuel price, especially tight games. It still is vulnerable to ATG and the vet 3(maybe increase requirement) reload swap means that you need it to survive so it could be a menace. Hell, sure make the rotation slower, but the range could make it bearable. Now the panther is even more obsolete, not the slightest. The panther still offers more armor, health and a rotating turret. Things the Stug-G lacks.

    Elephant and Pak target weak point

    God this feels like one the cheesiest ability in the game. 5 seconds is quite a lot to do a lot of DPS and not to mention the Pak is the best ATG in the game. Since it has super accuracy, reload and pen. Once your medium gets hit by the ability consider it dead. A vet pak can kill it in 5 secs. The ability requires no micro, just activate it and let the ATG do all the work by it self. Sure the Firefly those the same, but its a skill shoot and can miss. ( have you guys seen the tulips just phasing through the tanks? because i have).

    Solution

    Either decreased the stun to 2.5(which is already in the attribute editor) or decreased the damage it does during the ability. This would reduce the frustration this ATG produces. You have no idea how many tanks I have lost to this, you can do nothing, just take the shoots directly at the face. Smoke? Mostly by the time you click the ability and target the location you already might be dead. 5 seconds is fast to die and long to respond.

  • #384
    1 year ago

    Hey, I don't get the firefly change at all. Firefly's are the UKF's only chance at getting a tank that can actually compete late-game. Even Comet's are usually less effective than a well placed Firefly. Their accuracy made them valuable at the long range combat you have to place them in because of their very light armour.

    Please do tell me otherwise if you think you know otherwise.
    -Top Hat

  • #385
    1 year ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,722

    @Top_Haten1 said:
    Hey, I don't get the firefly change at all. Firefly's are the UKF's only chance at getting a tank that can actually compete late-game. Even Comet's are usually less effective than a well placed Firefly. Their accuracy made them valuable at the long range combat you have to place them in because of their very light armour.

    Please do tell me otherwise if you think you know otherwise.
    -Top Hat

    calculated the chance to hit with the current accuracy of the firefly and you will see it actually needs to go down more...

  • #386
    1 year ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588
    edited August 2017

    @kingdun3284 said:
    Funny fact: USF had to fight against suppressing kubel for years without any snare and ATG at the beginning and people in this forum told me to L2P when I reflected that issue. I think OKW having ATG is better than nothing and axis players are simply be blessed and cared too much. So L2p.

    No other faction has any problem with the Kubel. Soviets can deal with them, and UKF can deal with them. It cause problem only for those USF players, who refused to put a single RE squad in cover against the Kubel. So they nerf the Kubel now.

    I understand your reply, but this is completely biased. The ukf universal carrier has 10/5 armor and 200HP. Kubel had 4.5 and it is decreased to 2.5/2. One got nerfed just because of the riflemen and some player who refuse to use their RE properly. Other can go away with 10 front armor. That's just bullsh*t imo.

    At least i can upgrade the UC with a flamethrower so it can damage infantry properly, or clear out houses. What can you do with the Kubel after 3minutes passed? DETECTION? that's just great, and it also immobilize the vehicle now. I hope someone create a skin for it, with a big bullseye painted on its hood.

  • #387
    1 year ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,284 mod
    edited August 2017

    I believe the Kubel issue started when the base cost of REs was increased from 160 to 200 a while back. I used to open with cheap 2xREs against OKW to deal with their old Suppression-Kubel. It worked really well!

    However, after a few patches, REs were brought up to 200. At that point, it felt it was better to stick to acquiring more Riflemen, and thus probably began the need to nerf the Kubel in a never-ending snowball effect of nerfing.

  • #388
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,592

    New Kubel definitely feels much less intimidating then last one, played against it last night and it most certainly is a scout/capper now, it can help during a fight, but it can't sustain the combat and therefore bleed for free anymore, which is a good change.

  • #389
    1 year ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    @le12ro said:
    I believe the Kubel issue started when the base cost of REs was increased from 160 to 200 a while back. I used to open with cheap 2xREs against OKW to deal with their old Suppression-Kubel. It worked really well!

    However, after a few patches, REs were brought up to 200. At that point, it felt it was better to stick to acquiring more Riflemen, and thus probably began the need to nerf the Kubel in a never-ending snowball effect of nerfing.

    This happens always when they don't address the root of the problem, but change only the effects. I think if every other faction had no problem against the Kubel, it is not the Kubels fault that USF scks against it. RE should be made a proper counter... if its overpriced then make it cheaper, or use target tables against Kubels. No need to break the whole fckin unit imo. But it already happened with Obers, it happened with volks... it can happen again with the Kubel.

  • #390
    1 year ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,722
    edited August 2017

    OKW in this patch have kubels and their support weapons nerfed and this will simply translate to more volks blobs.

    Strangely enough OKW did worse than any other faction in one of the last tournaments.

    KV-1 changes needs to be look at. The new stat combined with the nerfs to stug will probably prove problematic.

    The vet bonuses should fit the role of a "defensive tank" and not an offensive one.

    The unit has more rear armor than a KT and when locked down it simply too fast by vet 3 ROF is way to high.

  • #391
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited August 2017

    @RiCE said:
    No other faction has any problem with the Kubel. Soviets can deal with them, and UKF can deal with them. It cause problem only for those USF players, who refused to put a single RE squad in cover against the Kubel. So they nerf the Kubel now.

    Gotta love when people say others are biased, but then blame a change to something they like entirely on the players of another faction...... Yeah dude, it's totally just cause we US players don't know how to fight the unit. Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that US has to play with the smallest variety of units for the longest period of time after the game-opening. And it sure has nothing to do with riflemen being uniquely bad at fighting the kubel due to how their DPS works.

    Above all else, how much are you expecting from a 210mp unit? The carrier costs 50mp more and doesn't cap on its own. The ability of the Kubel to capture means it has no business having its current level of combat performance. It already allows OKW players not to play by the same backcapping rules as everyone else, and that is massively underappreciated when people talk about the Kubel. The Brits often need to use the Carrier for anti-garrison, and have to spend 260mp and 90 muni to do that. The OKW use the Kubel to cap all their territory and send their opening few squads wherever they please. One fights buildings, the other''s best use is driving around outside of combat and you're telling me the armor advantage for the more expensive building fighter is unfair....?

    @Vipper said:
    Strangely enough OKW did worse than any other faction in one of the last tournaments.

    How about you go to coh2.org and tell me which faction has the most double-digit winstreaks in every single game-type among the top 10 players? Spoiler alert, its the OKW and no one else is even close. And it's been that way for weeks. Last time coh2charts was working they had at least a 10% advantage over all 3 allied factions in 2v2 for the top 250.

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