Soviet - Conscript Infantry (All)

#1
2 years ago

Relic says Infantry Scaling, but I think he forgot about the Conscript Infantry Squad. That infantry is useless after 10 minutes of departure. Its cost is 240 manpower like the Grenadier, but they do not own the MG42. Therefore they are of no use in the middle and final match.

«1

Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,641

    Conscripts are out of scope, just like most of other basic infantry.

  • #3
    2 years ago
    NivekQcNivekQc Posts: 16

    Well one of my gameplay is to spamm 2/3 conscript molotov + 3 other conscript with 6 conscript + after that maxim in a Strategic building with AT and 1/2 Concript I can easy Map constrol and take the avantage early and mid game

    ( You gonna need the commander with Hit the dirt ( REALLY important a MUST have when you play conscript ! ) PPsh ( with out that Conscript have no chance Mid and late game ! so Must have to ! The skill who make your conscript can repair a nice and usefull skill when you play mass t34/76 with them a GREAT combo i like them together with rapid conscrip you can easy have 2/3 new conscript for 100 ammo Really nice when you place him well before battle when you know you gonna lose a lot of man you can easy push hard and you know 2/3 troop will follow just after ( really nice for take a position and hold it after that or just push a other shot before they come back with renforcement And the arty is nice too against inf

    With that kind of gameplay you can have 6 conscript 1 maxim 1 AT You can easy Hard push a side with conscript and your maxim and AT in defensive position so you do pression on the enemy

    Most part of the time you will give him a hard early game and mid game but you will need to dont lose the Momentum ..

    Sometime when i sucess to take the map control i dont do Maxim and AT but 8 conscript and i rush the mass T34/76

    Work great for me but you need to be REALLY good in micro and with the song at MAX cause the enemy arty

    For me its work really great but i like this kind of gameplay but you need to be focus ! And most of all DONT BLOB with all the infantry you have

    ( if you play with friend Try that you both do 6/8 conscript + fuel cash ( And rush t34/76 together ) at 10-12 min if you did great you will have 16 conscript ( with vet and PPsh ) and 2/4 t34 Now you can rush The enemy base or just completly whipe out one of them ( Play together as one army dont split ( Be always 2vs1 )

    On certain map people expect you rush the enemy fuel but they barely expect 2 conscript + 2 engi who are follow by 2 conscript again and again .. you will face 90% of the time only 1 Pionner and MG or 1 Kubel and 1 sturmpionner cause they will go each one on one side

    But your right conscript need buff Specially that molotov ( I dont know how much time i fail cause that shit is so long .. )
    and you can play conscript only with 3 commander Russian Conscripts Support Tactics // Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics /// Urban Defense Tactics

    Sorry for my english i know im not really good i hope people will understand me enough =/

  • #4
    2 years ago

    You're screaming at deaf ears conscripts will never be usefull for anything other than oorah/AT nade snare combo.

    They haven't even buffed the molotov throw time(which requires teching!), do you think they give a damn about conscript scaling?

  • #5
    2 years ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 264
    edited August 2017

    An easy sulotion to make they scale better can be:

    1. Fix the molotov throwing time to same as okw's volks, or make theyer molotov throwing same as cons.
    2. Give cons ppsh after teching t3, will make them help scale better in mid-late. (Replace the commander ability with "multi throwing antitank granade"
    3. Or simply buff the damage after recived vet1
  • #6
    2 years ago
    MustiMusti Posts: 20

    ^pretty cool ideas there

    I think a DP-28-upgrade would work well, sort of like a counterpart to Grens MG42, not quite sure about the timing.

  • #7
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @Musti said:
    > ^pretty cool ideas there
    >
    > I think a DP-28-upgrade would work well, sort of like a counterpart to Grens MG42, not quite sure about the timing.

    Cant to DPs, its outside of cons intended role (they are mobile closer ranged troops, vs long ranged static) and would mess with the balance with grens (if they cant keep em at range what can they do)
  • #8
    2 years ago
    Maybe give cons gren rof at vet 3 or after going t4?
  • #9
    2 years ago
    MustiMusti Posts: 20

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Cant to DPs, its outside of cons intended role (they are mobile closer ranged troops, vs long ranged static) and would mess with the balance with grens (if they cant keep em at range what can they do)

    Really? Never figured that out, seems kinda counter-intuitive considering that they have Mosins, and they are kinda hopeless (Cons in general).

    And just to clarify, I meant to give them a single DP upgrade, not dual DPs like Guards have.

  • #10
    2 years ago
    NivekQcNivekQc Posts: 16

    Conscript are dead and need rework on them since the game is out so i dont think they gonna do something now or will do something

  • #11
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited August 2017

    http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=sws_halftrack_squad_mp

    Check the fuel cost.

    You may have a revelation here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedorov_Avtomat

    Maybe a stg like upgrade, with cons being the opposite, a starting close range unit rather than long range unit with a upgrade that slightly boost close range dps and boost long range dps (rather than a slight long range dps boost and close range boost).

    They would fire it with accurate short bursts with long cooldown in between.

    But it would require a price increase, especially in terms of reinforcement costs.

    And at this point am i the only one that after a proper cons rework would just rework penals to be simple cannon fodder, decrease tier 1 cost and increase of 5 fuel m3.

    More balanced and interesting builds could be possible, like
    1) Proper mainline (cons with stg like upgrade) and support weapons
    2) Ost like mainline with early halftrack and sniper support.

    The fact that all powerful infantry is sitting in a single tier drives me crazy.

    Regarding the molotov, since the cons field presence can't be that high after such rework ,i would be happy if molotov started to cost 30 muni and get an instant throw time.
    It would need some vetting bonus to be reworked tho, the RA cons get would be too good, as well as that +40% accuracy bonus, it may need to go down to 20% is we want to give cons a mid range upgrade.

    @le12ro ha detto:
    What's the revelation then? Do tell us :)

    OKW pays for trucks, they ARE an extra teching cost.

  • #12
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,641

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    OKW pays for trucks, they ARE an extra teching cost.

    No, they are not.
    Tech cost paid in parts is not "extra cost".

    I'll even give you an example of your own logic:

    USF needs to pay 135 fuel for T3.

    OKW needs to pay 120 fuel for T3 and 15 for truck.

    See a pattern yet?

  • #13
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited August 2017

    @Katitof said:
    Tech cost paid in parts is not "extra cost".

    I'll even give you an example of your own logic:

    USF needs to pay 135 fuel for T3.

    OKW needs to pay 120 fuel for T3 and 15 for truck.

    See a pattern yet?

    And USF get a bonus units with every tech they unlock with with the same logic is "free".

    Which in the case of the T3 (major) includes a "free" retreat point, a "free" recon plane and a "free" off map artillery.

  • #14
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited August 2017

    @Katitof ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    OKW pays for trucks, they ARE an extra teching cost.

    No, they are not.
    Tech cost paid in parts is not "extra cost".

    I'll even give you an example of your own logic:

    USF needs to pay 135 fuel for T3.

    OKW needs to pay 120 fuel for T3 and 15 for truck.

    See a pattern yet?

    Usf pays 120 fuel just as OKW for tier 3 and get a "free" majorthat has "free" FRP.

    @Vipper ha detto:

    @Katitof said:
    Tech cost paid in parts is not "extra cost".

    I'll even give you an example of your own logic:

    USF needs to pay 135 fuel for T3.

    OKW needs to pay 120 fuel for T3 and 15 for truck.

    See a pattern yet?

    And USF get a bonus units with every tech they unlock with with the same logic is "free".

    Which in the case of the T3 (major) includes a "free" retreat point, a "free" recon plane and a "free" off map artillery.

    It's all balanced out, as it time perfectly usf light vehicles (otherwise stuart would come minutes before luchs and aaht would be seen in 5 minutes + the best mg in terms of suppression AND at the same time dps being basically tier 0).
    OKW instead, needs at least early isg since it has NO starting indirect fire to counter tier 0 mortars.

    There is NO reason for molotovs to be effective just as flame nades:
    1) Cons have hourra to close in in seconds, volks don't
    2) Cons are meant to be used with support weapons and have a better mg on their side (straight up much higher dps, deploy time, mg crew traded for firing arc ), and have "free" smoke from their mortar.
    3) SU has flamethrowers. (are we gonna give okw flamethrowers if SU gets flame nade ?)
    4) Cons have much more field presence.
    5) And obiviously 10 muni vs 30 muni...

  • #15
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,641

    @Vipper said:

    @Katitof said:
    Tech cost paid in parts is not "extra cost".

    I'll even give you an example of your own logic:

    USF needs to pay 135 fuel for T3.

    OKW needs to pay 120 fuel for T3 and 15 for truck.

    See a pattern yet?

    And USF get a bonus units with every tech they unlock with with the same logic is "free".

    Which in the case of the T3 (major) includes a "free" retreat point, a "free" recon plane and a "free" off map artillery.

    And all of that is irrelevant, because extra stuff =/= additional cost.

    Plus, you seem to have forgotten OKW getting "free" best AA emplacement in game and best and most durable defensive emplacement capable of engaging anything up to medium armor.

  • #16
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited August 2017

    @Katitof said:
    And all of that is irrelevant, because extra stuff =/= additional cost.

    Plus, you seem to have forgotten OKW getting "free" best AA emplacement in game and best and most durable defensive emplacement capable of engaging anything up to medium armor.

    Actually I am not forgetting anything because I disagree with the "free" logic...

    But if one wants, to consider the things that come with axis tech as "free", one should also consider what allies get with teching also as "free".

  • #18
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited August 2017

    @Katitof ha detto:

    @Vipper said:

    @Katitof said:
    Tech cost paid in parts is not "extra cost".

    I'll even give you an example of your own logic:

    USF needs to pay 135 fuel for T3.

    OKW needs to pay 120 fuel for T3 and 15 for truck.

    See a pattern yet?

    And USF get a bonus units with every tech they unlock with with the same logic is "free".

    Which in the case of the T3 (major) includes a "free" retreat point, a "free" recon plane and a "free" off map artillery.

    And all of that is irrelevant, because extra stuff =/= additional cost.

    Plus, you seem to have forgotten OKW getting "free" best AA emplacement in game and best and most durable defensive emplacement capable of engaging anything up to medium armor.

    1) The "best" AA emplacement is bofor, it completely shutdown an area (truly) and deny use of infiltration units (and discourage flanking) as it has an insane killing power, while flak uses suppression.
    A unit forced to retreat trough bofors is getting wiped, same can't be said for flak (and flak can't conviniently switch targets)
    1.1) The flak is an enormous target
    2) US "free" units vet up, bofors vet up, flak don't.
    3) US "free" units can be replaced easily, a dead tier means reteching.
    4) USF first 2 tier are more expensive of 25 and 10 fuel, yet provide one mainline with either bar or thompson that (point 3 - 2)
    5) USF "free" FRP isn't a fixed target in a game where arty is so meta that US calliope is always in the players roster despite the doctrine itself is mediocre
    6) And you need at least 30 fuel for trucks, which is the same of usf side teching.

    Things like flak, vet 5 (caches, anyone ?),... are OP and gamebreaking
    USF popcap abuse, free units with muni free thompson and bar, free vehicles self heal and ukf ability to heal for free with a single 30 muni upgrade every squad in seconds is designed and working as intended.

  • #19
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 693
    edited August 2017
    > @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    >There is NO reason for molotovs to be effective just as flame nades:

    Self healing cheap volks. Stg's for volks. Med kits on sturms at vet zero. A nearly no bleed kubel. All disagree with this. The price of getting the incdiary grenade and molotov as wel but i put this at the last point you made.

    >1) Cons have hourra to close in in seconds, volks don't

    Volks get real easy acces to a no brainer upgrade wich eliminates cons winning at close range or any range period. The moli is bassicly usseles from this point on because of its short range and long throw time. All oorah will do is decrease the time in wich volks will wipe them.

    >2) Cons are meant to be used with support weapons and have a better mg on their side (straight up much higher dps,
    deploy time, mg crew traded for firing arc ), and have "free" smoke from their mortar.

    If the support weapons are worth their salt you are correct. but t2 is in a real bad spot atm. The maxim is so good 1 volks squad can force it off frontaly most of the time. It has trouble suppressing the squad it targets. Its vet ability is suposed to cover for that but it falls terribly short. oww its just so good. Cons can never do the same vs a setup mg34.

    The only real use out of the soviet mortar is its smoke against okw. Its just a waste off manpower without it. and you pay a premium price for a sub par mortar it is not ''free'' smoke by any means. same for the maxim a premium price and its in nearly all areas infirior to the mg42. At least the mg34 is cheap.

    Volks were not meant to be near elite infantry. They were meant as front line troops to bind the enemy while sturms storm in and do the damage. now they are so good they dont need sturms or obers anymore.

    >3) SU has flamethrowers. (are we gonna give okw flamethrowers if SU gets flame nade ?)

    Okw has powerfull upgrades on non doc inf and a non doc heavy tank. owk has 3 units that can stealth move. Okw has better sight then soviets do. so how is giving soviets a molo/incendiary that is actualy worth the 125 mp and 15 fuel a bad thing?

    >4) Cons have much more field presence.

    And yet volks trade way better then cons do scale better then cons do for just 10 mp more. Volks are so cost effective that okw mostly floats mp while con heavy builds bleed a soviet player dry. And and dont forget self healing and med kits from sturms wich drasticly increase field presence in favor of volks. Going con heavy vs okw is like throwing the game atm your are at a disadvantidge from the beginning of the match. both maxim and soviet mortar dont make up for cons being really bad vs okw. 2 x bad does not equal good.

    >5) And obiviously 10 muni vs 30 muni...

    125 mp and 15 fuel for just one crappy ability against 300 mp and 40 fuel that gives acces to incindiary grenades p fausts stg upgrade and the mg34. and do not forget 3 new units one can build.
    If put the new units as 1 item wich in turn means for that price you get 5 new things.

    300/5=60 40/5=8 so essentialy for 60 mp and 8 fuel you get a far better inc grenade on far better infantry squad. the 30 muni price on use just reduces its spammability ever so slightly.
  • #20
    2 years ago

    @TheLeveler83
    "Self healing cheap volks. Stg's for volks. Med kits on sturms at vet zero. A nearly no bleed kubel. All disagree with this. The price of getting the incdiary grenade and molotov as wel but i put this at the last point you made. "

    Self healing it's factored as one of the few advantages other than sight range vet 5 has over normal vetting.
    We may aswell completely remove it and give okw caches at this point.
    Meanwhile OKW is the only faction with medics in a specific tier and the only WFA faction with per model healing.

    Wanna hear a joke about no brainer upgrades ? 2 no brainer upgrades walks into a B.A.R.
    The game is full of no brainer upgrades even much more cost effective

    "Med kits on sturms at vet zero"
    Are paid 10 muni per squad

    "The price of getting the incdiary grenade and molotov"
    There's nothing to disagree about here, 15 fuel for truck or for side teching are the same.

    "If the support weapons are worth their salt you are correct. but t2 is in a real bad spot atm. The maxim is so good 1 volks squad can force it off frontaly most of the time. It has trouble suppressing the squad it targets. Its vet ability is suposed to cover for that but it falls terribly short. oww its just so good. Cons can never do the same vs a setup mg34."

    Best part is that actual live maxim is much better than mg34 anyway, objectively better...and tha's not true, no way a single squad can force it off unless sight blocker or a map full of craters (which implies some vetting for your mg).

    "Cons can never do the same vs a setup mg34"
    HOURRAAAAAAAA

    "The only real use out of the soviet mortar is its smoke against okw. Its just a waste off manpower without it. and you pay a premium price for a sub par mortar it is not ''free'' smoke by any means.

    So 240 manpower is premium...
    Smoke is objectively free and the barrage itself works perfectly.

    " same for the maxim a premium price and its in nearly all areas infirior to the mg42."

    But okw doesn't have mg42

    "Volks were not meant to be near elite infantry. They were meant as front line troops to bind the enemy while sturms storm in and do the damage. now they are so good they dont need sturms anymore."

    "And yet volks trade way better then cons do scale better then cons do for just 10 mp more. Volks are so cost effective that okw mostly floats mp while con heavy builds bleed a soviet player dry. And and dont forget self healing and med kits from sturms wich drasticly increase field presence in favor of volks. Going con heavy vs okw is like throwing the game atm your are at a disadvantidge from the beginning of the match. both maxim and soviet mortar dont make up for cons being really bad vs okw."

    Volks were meant to be AT infantry, yet i can't see their shrecks.
    Usf was meant to work without early mortar
    ....
    If we want to truly talk about it, cannon fodder volks costed 210 and less to reinforce.
    Their price has been increased as well as their reinforcement cost (because you seem to miss that cons cost 20 mp per model to reinforce, while volks cost 25, only three less than rifleman, that hands down 1vs1 rekt volks in any equal condition fight at any range, any range, always (unless volks have stg and rifle didn't get a bar, rifleman have starting RA bonus)).

    Their scaling is perfectly balanced (they need numbers to win over better mainlines regardless), it's OKW applying vet 5 advantage, the reason why it can't secure cut offs with caches and get a constant flow of resources per minute.
    People annoyed by it should stop decrewing usf vehicles for repair/popcap and stop using demo.
    Penals cost the same and need no upgrade to scale or have good dps (late game are slighly worse, yet are straight up better until half match).

    Volks still need sturm for early game as their starting dps and performances are poor, while obers are not essential yet fairly common in competitive scene (and i personally use them as anti elite unit like shocks and rangers that easily destroy volks).

    "Okw has powerfull upgrades on non doc inf and a non doc heavy tank. owk has 3 units that can stealth move. Okw has better sight then soviets do. so how is giving soviets a molo/incendiary that is actualy worth the 125 mp and 15 fuel a bad thing?"

    I don't know how powerful upgrades are going to change the fact that OKW has only those flame nades as anti garrison (and stuka).
    And would be otherwise totally helpless against buildings without it.
    Add that whole okw extra teching cost at least (2 trucks), for a total of 30 fuel, so OKW definetly pays for "racks" and grenades just like soviets, USF and UKF.

    But if we wanna get into it:
    "Okw has better sight then soviets do"
    This is ironical, soviet has the only tank destroyer that can FULLY provide vision for itself, called SU-85.

    "Okw has powerfull upgrades on non doc inf"
    That's more of an issue of penals being that good without any muni need

    "a non doc heavy tank"
    That ironically is much less accessible than other heavies, as it requires a complete teching instead of CP, it isn't really an advantage.

    "owk has 3 units that can stealth move."
    One is raketen, pays with accuracy and 10 range (and has an average pen).
    Second is jadgpanzer 4, a 135 fuel TD, more expensive than su-85 (that instead has the much more useful and less situational ability of self spotting), with less pen and less mobility, traded for more armor.
    Third is luchs.

    I still don't see why molotovs should be thrown as flame nades.
    They cost less, thrown by a cheap unit that can run like crazy for 100 muni, in a faction that has smoke at min 0 known for pathologically float on muni.
    Can't you see the issue here ?

  • #21
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Poor soviet. Sign up for communism. Get nothing for free

    Who needs free things when you have strong soviet backs?

    The tech-bonus debate should be limited to a EFA vs WFA conversation IMO. When done that way we have a much easier problem to identify:

    Redecorated base-sectors vs. Free Flak HQs, Officers, and Howitzers.

  • #22
    2 years ago

    @SkysTheLimit ha detto:

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Poor soviet. Sign up for communism. Get nothing for free

    Who needs free things when you have strong soviet backs?

    The tech-bonus debate should be limited to a EFA vs WFA conversation IMO. When done that way we have a much easier problem to identify:

    Redecorated base-sectors vs. Free Flak HQs, Officers, and Howitzers.

    Tier 4 soviet Base sector looks cool tho.

  • #23
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,032

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Poor soviet. Sign up for communism. Get nothing for free

    Free SU-76 barrage? They put all their communism in to munitions factories.

  • #24
    2 years ago
    > @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    > Self healing it's factored as one of the few advantages other than sight range vet 5 has over normal vetting.
    > We may aswell completely remove it and give okw caches at this point.
    > Meanwhile OKW is the only faction with medics in a specific tier and the only WFA faction with per model healing.
    >
    > Wanna hear a joke about no brainer upgrades ? 2 no brainer upgrades walks into a B.A.R.
    > The game is full of no brainer upgrades even much more cost effective
    >
    > "Med kits on sturms at vet zero"
    > Are paid 10 muni per squad
    >
    > "The price of getting the incdiary grenade and molotov"
    > There's nothing to disagree about here, 15 fuel for truck or for side teching are the same.
    >
    > Best part is that actual live maxim is much better than mg34 anyway, objectively better...and tha's not true, no way a single squad can force it off unless sight blocker or a map full of craters (which implies some vetting for your mg).

    Volks wont be surpessed in time, even from max range. volks can throw the inc grenade quite often. If you let your maxim stay it probably by by maxim.

    > "Cons can never do the same vs a setup mg34"
    > HOURRAAAAAAAA

    And surpressed. Molotov not able to be thrown. You need to micro the fuck out of cons to do the same as volks.

    > "The only real use out of the soviet mortar is its smoke against okw. Its just a waste off manpower without it. and you pay a premium price for a sub par mortar it is not ''free'' smoke by any means.
    >
    > So 240 manpower is premium...

    Ost mortar is 240 mp and way way beter. So yeah a premium price.

    > Smoke is objectively free and the barrage itself works perfectly.

    Is the unit free? Teching up paying 240 mp. How is that free?
    Against ost static play it works. Not against a mobile okw army with such appaling dps. And teams reinforcing from forward hq.

    > " same for the maxim a premium price and its in nearly all areas infirior to the mg42."
    >
    > But okw doesn't have mg42

    Sure leave out the part off at least the mg34 is cheap. The maxim requires teching the mg42 does not and its still a far supirior mg for the same price.

    > Volks were meant to be AT infantry, yet i can't see their shrecks.
    > Usf was meant to work without early mortar

    Res used to be off use in combat...

    > If we want to truly talk about it, cannon fodder volks costed 210 and less to reinforce.

    Self healing cannon fodder wich destroyed vehicle play completly and obers op as shit. Fwrd rtrt point. Kubels easely protecting the fodder from allied inf with supression on demand. Near uncounterable kt for sovjets.

    > Their price has been increased as well as their reinforcement cost (because you seem to miss that cons cost 20 mp per model to reinforce, while volks cost 25.

    Wich boils down to 100 mp for full reinforce for both. Okw floats mp so who has the edge here?

    Volks only need a 60 muni invest ments. Cons wich a worse off need 45 fuel and 250 mp for basic stuff wich as i explained volks get as a bonus with teching.

    > Their scaling is perfectly balanced (they need numbers to win over better mainlines regardless),

    So needing 480 mp just to force off 250mp is balanced? Its a massive advantidge for okw.

    > it's OKW applying vet 5 advantage, the reason why it can't secure cut offs with caches and get a constant flow of resources per minute.

    Szwehres hq can protect the most vital cut off for a long time in the game.

    > People annoyed by it should stop decrewing usf vehicles for repair/popcap and stop using demo.

    Soviets have lil wiping power outside the demo non doc. If penal satchal gets you its on you.

    > Penals cost the same and need no upgrade to scale or have good dps (late game are slighly worse, yet are straight up better until half match).

    Uhh 300mp and teching needed vs 250 mp yeah theyd better be better. Vet 0 volks are still to close considering the price difference. This is what causes pemal spam vs okw. Along with cons being bad.

    > Volks still need sturm for early game as their starting dps and performances are poor, while obers are not essential yet fairly common in competitive scene (and i personally use them as anti elite unit like shocks and rangers that easily destroy volks).

    It says enough that rangers and shocks are needed just to counter simple volks. At vet5 upgraded volks are just to good for their relative cheap price.


    > I don't know how powerful upgrades are going to change the fact that OKW has only those flame nades as anti garrison (and stuka)
    > And would be otherwise totally helpless against buildings without it.

    Okw struggeling vs garisons doesnt mean volks are not op.

    > Add that whole okw extra teching cost at least (2 trucks), for a total of 30 fuel, so OKW definetly pays for "racks" and grenades just like soviets, USF and UKF.

    You get acces to all your stuff with one truck setup. Plus new units. That 40 fuel is not soily for stgs and grenades. Weapon racks tech only gives acces to weapons.

    > But if we wanna get into it:
    > "Okw has better sight then soviets do"
    > This is ironical, soviet has the only tank destroyer that can FULLY provide vision for itself, called SU-85.

    Yes with a debuff to speed and sight to the sides and back. It has a cooldown as well. Balanced imo.

    >
    > "Okw has powerfull upgrades on non doc inf"
    > That's more of an issue of penals being that good without any muni need
    >
    > "a non doc heavy tank"
    > That ironically is much less accessible than other heavies, as it requires a complete teching instead of CP, it isn't really an advantage.

    > "owk has 3 units that can stealth move."
    > One is raketen, pays with accuracy and 10 range (and has an average pen).
    > Second is jadgpanzer 4, a 135 fuel TD, more expensive than su-85 (that instead has the much more useful and less situational ability of self spotting), with less pen and less mobility, traded for more armor.

    Its 5 fuel cheaper. No vet 5 no cloaking and no first shot bonus. Just extra sight. And as you say lower armour. I dont see the issue here.

    > Third is luchs.
    >
    > I still don't see why molotovs should be thrown as flame nades.
    > They cost less, thrown by a cheap unit that can run like crazy for 100 muni, in a faction that has smoke at min 0 known for pathologically float on muni.
    > Can't you see the issue here ?

    No i dont. cons are not cheap considering their effectiveness needing specific side tech and micro requirements to be of use.

    Cons lack dps period and are short range they need to close in against most units hurting their already bad dps and only then the moli can be throw and never hit because its easely dodged. their durability is only good at vet 3. They lack upgrades non doc. Require side tech for basic stuff. Oorah is not free.

    Volks Self healing at vet 3 is free and reduces bleed bigtime. They have better dps no need to close in wich means stable dps. Dps becomes flatout better with stgs. Inc nade has longer range. What downsides do volks have? they cant pick up dropped weapons when upgraded.

    Inc grenades come as a bonus to teching its 1/5th of the tech price. 8 fuel 60 mp essentialy moli requires 15 fuel and 125 mp. On a faction wich is mp starved.

    Try going min0 smoke and see how that works for you. You will have no map presence vs okw.
  • #25
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,641

    @Lazarus said:

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Poor soviet. Sign up for communism. Get nothing for free

    Free SU-76 barrage? They put all their communism in to munitions factories.

    Su-76 barrage isn't free anymore.
    Try again.

  • #26
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited August 2017

    @Katitof said:
    Su-76 barrage isn't free anymore.

    Yeah it is. The 15 munitions cost they gave it in WBP got reverted, so still free.

  • #27
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,032
    edited August 2017
    > @Katitof said:
    > Su-76 barrage isn't free anymore.
    > Try again.

    Not only is it still free - it was also clearly a joke. Put the hate boner down.
  • #28
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    I stand corrected.
    Communism 1
    Dark 0
  • #29
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,641

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Katitof said:
    Su-76 barrage isn't free anymore.

    Yeah it is. The 15 munitions cost they gave it in WBP got reverted, so still free.

    Yeah, you are right.

    Have played with that change on mod so much, I forgot how it was on live at the end.

  • #30
    2 years ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    Soviets don't have to use conscripts, as there is always penal battalions. If you use conscripts though, maxim spam is powerful. The soviets use conscripts for support purposes; they are also superior to grenadiers at close range. Not to mention, guards and shock troops are both awesome! And partisans can turn the tide of battle quickly, and even wipe squads, with an opponent who doesn't pay great attention. Against the OKW, the mid-game advantage from T-34s should be enough, considering an OKW panzer IV cost 150 fuel.

  • #31
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,641

    @gydh56 said:
    Soviets don't have to use conscripts, as there is always penal battalions. If you use conscripts though, maxim spam is powerful.

    You're 1-2 patches behind, mate.
    Neither conscripts nor maxims are viable anymore.

    That is the reason why no one uses them anymore you know.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.