[USF] Rear Ech Troops need more usage. (smoke)

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Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    Passive in cover is no good. Imagine an mg crew that can hit 360 degrees with enough used.

    Then again simmer that down by requiring them inside the bunker with rifle nades makes it a little more potent of a defensive without going crazy RE running around and sandbags everywhere. But I would make bunkers slightly more durable not by a crazy amount.
  • #33
    2 years ago
    MustiMusti Posts: 20

    How about a simple buff to their firepower? I think an Ostruppen/IS-like acc/ROF buff activated behind cover (perhaps disabled for slot weapons, to avoid BAR/1911 spam) would make them usable as a defensive unit.

    Or/and they could get a 30 muni SMG upgrade, that would give them a pair of Assault Engs M3s, providing them with some flanking potential.

  • #34
    2 years ago

    Well im back. I needed a break from this game. Blood pressure was running to high.

    Thank you everyone for the feedback. I read some excellent suggestions and its nice to see im not the only one who feels RE's are the black sheep no one wants.

    @thedarkarmadillo I really like your idea of giving RE's the emergency repair. This plus smoke would be just the incentive people would need to pull them out of their barracks and onto the field alongside the riflemen.

    As someone else pointed out they get an extra squad member at vet3 so i think a dps buff would be a bad choice however.

  • #35
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,620

    @eonfigure said:
    As someone else pointed out they get an extra squad member at vet3 so i think a dps buff would be a bad choice however.

    They actually used to get extra man at vet2.

    Any and all RET use died out the moment they moved it to vet3.

    RETs were always redundant when it comes to "field fortifications" as FPs are crap and can be taken down with small arms fire, unlike bunkers and while they do provide RETs with nice RN utility, the MP cost to get it up and time needed makes it redundant compared to regular MG upgrade.

    RETs aren't needed to build tiers, aren't needed for combat since their volley is more of a hinderance then advantage(aka you die the moment you use it or the effect is not noticeable because of yellow cover), they also aren't needed for repair due to vech crews.

    RETs are still one of best platforms in game for zooks and that is their role.
    You will never see them in early game, because they are combat impotent and resource sink compared to rifles, but you'll always see them late game when a couple of zooks are needed.

    You will also see them when mine sweeping is required.

  • #36
    2 years ago
    > @Katitof ha detto:
    > @eonfigure said:
    > As someone else pointed out they get an extra squad member at vet3 so i think a dps buff would be a bad choice however.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > They actually used to get extra man at vet2.
    >
    > Any and all RET use died out the moment they moved it to vet3.
    >
    > RETs were always redundant when it comes to "field fortifications" as FPs are crap and can be taken down with small arms fire, unlike bunkers and while they do provide RETs with nice RN utility, the MP cost to get it up and time needed makes it redundant compared to regular MG upgrade.
    >
    > RETs aren't needed to build tiers, aren't needed for combat since their volley is more of a hinderance then advantage(aka you die the moment you use it or the effect is not noticeable because of yellow cover), they also aren't needed for repair due to vech crews.
    >
    > RETs are still one of best platforms in game for zooks and that is their role.
    > You will never see them in early game, because they are combat impotent and resource sink compared to rifles, but you'll always see them late game when a couple of zooks are needed.
    >
    > You will also see them when mine sweeping is required.

    Let's make usf vehicles non decrewable so they are necessary (BUFF).

    Lul litterally the most cost effective at in game, brits would pay gold to have RE with 5th free man and only 200 mp....
  • #37
    2 years ago

    Brits don't need Rear Echelon when they have superior Royal Engineers who are around 210 with superior offensive and defensive stats stock, abilities, and come with a 5th man when upgraded, no need for veterancy.

    Rear Echelon, however, first need a cost reduction to around 180 and 23 per model from the 200/25 and to have Volley-Fire actually be useful so you can trade munitions for time. The only time it works if you're fighting an Ostheer Pioneer squad who decides to charge in at maximum range.

  • #38
    2 years ago
    Oh yea, brit engies are EASILY inferior to RE, amd all engies for that matter! the awful .8 target size (same as rangers! And smaller than sturms, meaning out of the box sappers are more durable that sturms despite being nearly 2/3 the price), having to pay a whole 1 time fee to increase the durability AND dps output of your main infantry by 25% from there on out, having to run all the way to a crappy FRP instead of base to arm up with AT or AI upgrades. The worst however HAS to slapping a some munitions on them to give them more armour than a shock squad and an LMG. I mean Its really disgusting how weak and inflexible sappers are. Increased DPS in cover? NO THANKS ill take a trip mine flare please.

    Seriously, anybody that thinks sappers are UP (for a whole 10mp more than pios) needs to see a brain doctor ASAP because something is seriously wrong..
  • #39
    2 years ago

    @miragefla ha detto:
    Brits don't need Rear Echelon when they have superior Royal Engineers who are around 210 with superior offensive and defensive stats stock, abilities, and come with a 5th man when upgraded, no need for veterancy.

    Rear Echelon, however, first need a cost reduction to around 180 and 23 per model from the 200/25 and to have Volley-Fire actually be useful so you can trade munitions for time. The only time it works if you're fighting an Ostheer Pioneer squad who decides to charge in at maximum range.

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    Oh yea, brit engies are EASILY inferior to RE, amd all engies for that matter! the awful .8 target size (same as rangers! And smaller than sturms, meaning out of the box sappers are more durable that sturms despite being nearly 2/3 the price), having to pay a whole 1 time fee to increase the durability AND dps output of your main infantry by 25% from there on out, having to run all the way to a crappy FRP instead of base to arm up with AT or AI upgrades. The worst however HAS to slapping a some munitions on them to give them more armour than a shock squad and an LMG. I mean Its really disgusting how weak and inflexible sappers are. Increased DPS in cover? NO THANKS ill take a trip mine flare please.

    Seriously, anybody that thinks sappers are UP (for a whole 10mp more than pios) needs to see a brain doctor ASAP because something is seriously wrong..

    Care explaining how combat offensive matter when you want an at squad ?

  • #40
    2 years ago

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    @miragefla ha detto:
    Brits don't need Rear Echelon when they have superior Royal Engineers who are around 210 with superior offensive and defensive stats stock, abilities, and come with a 5th man when upgraded, no need for veterancy.

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    Oh yea, brit engies are EASILY inferior to RE, amd all engies for that matter! the awful .8 target size (same as rangers! And smaller than sturms, meaning out of the box sappers are more durable that sturms despite being nearly 2/3 the price), having to pay a whole 1 time fee to increase the durability AND dps output of your main infantry by 25% from there on out, having to run all the way to a crappy FRP instead of base to arm up with AT or AI upgrades.

    Care explaining how combat offensive matter when you want an at squad ?

    care to explain how a 5 man, .8 RA double equipable, frp backed squad are exclusive to offensive capabilities?
    not to mention the reinforcement reduction at vet 3...
    but this thread IS about RE so perhaps this isnt the place to argue over how awful sappers arnt..

  • #41
    2 years ago

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    @miragefla ha detto:
    Brits don't need Rear Echelon when they have superior Royal Engineers who are around 210 with superior offensive and defensive stats stock, abilities, and come with a 5th man when upgraded, no need for veterancy.

    @thedarkarmadillo ha detto:
    Oh yea, brit engies are EASILY inferior to RE, amd all engies for that matter! the awful .8 target size (same as rangers! And smaller than sturms, meaning out of the box sappers are more durable that sturms despite being nearly 2/3 the price), having to pay a whole 1 time fee to increase the durability AND dps output of your main infantry by 25% from there on out, having to run all the way to a crappy FRP instead of base to arm up with AT or AI upgrades.

    Care explaining how combat offensive matter when you want an at squad ?

    care to explain how a 5 man, .8 RA double equipable, frp backed squad are exclusive to offensive capabilities?
    not to mention the reinforcement reduction at vet 3...
    but this thread IS about RE so perhaps this isnt the place to argue over how awful sappers arnt..

    They aren't, yet is it always better to get the cheapest squad for at, because you won't benefit advantage of dps and durability as at squad...and usf have FRP (??)

  • #42
    2 years ago
    The price difference for all the advantages of sappers hardly makes RE cheaper in the run of things.
    The brit FRP compounds with sappers already good performance by allowing them to adapt at a moment's notice, the usf frp is more mobile and a better rally point for sure, but the brit ability to arm up means you can leverage all the advantages sappers have and then slap some AT on them when needed vs in anticipation (not that it REALLY matters given how little RE contribute to anything anyways i guess)

    At any rate "cheap and can slap on zooks" isnt enough
  • #43
    2 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468
    edited September 2017

    Why is RE's vs Sappers even part of this discussion. It's not like they are fighting against each other. The point here isn't to make RE's battle-hardened-elite-shock-troop-space-marines...
    Just to even the loud-out between them and rifles, in this case (abilities), not stats.

    People wanting to increase their volley fire...No! You're getting bored, and you just want something to play with. This isnt a mod so that you can have every unit be ~super combat effective. This is about balance. Rifles are Titans. The incentive here is combined arms; "I need RE's on the front for their smoke to support my troops, the downside is they cant fight very wel.l" Just like engineers, just pioneers....

    (On a side note: I've noticed thats a problem with this community...People want every unit to be a behemoth in battle or they want a unit for every situation...sometimes less is more...and sometimes removing a unit can also be a solution. I know im digressing but look at the OKW pz4...Did they need it? No. The luchs and Puma are amazing. If anything the luchs needs a buff in damage and the puma an increase in its range. Which would easily balance since they are both so soft. They were meant to be mid and late game light-weight serious threats. But that ONE person was like, "Oh i dont like it! IM BORED, i also lack skill, just gimme a pz4 plz, IM LAZY and i just want to copy the strat i use from my ostheer gameplay"....

    Same story with the US mortar, Same story with Penals...Just giving them to much.

    Sigh...)

    -Engineers: why are they on the front lines? For that Nuclear Demo Charge. Can they fight very well? No. But they are out there namely for that ABILITY.

    -Pioneers: Why are they on the front lines? For the scolding flamethrower. Can they fight very well? They're okay...they're no gren squad, and they lose nearly all their health before they can get in range. Still that (ability) is worth keeping them on the front.

    (Im not mentioning repairing or mine sweeper because its an ability all of them have)

    @Lazarus put it best:

    The problem is too much of that strength is put in to riflemen and not enough in to REs. So you take some from one, heap it on to the other until you get something you can make diverse and interesting.

  • #44
    2 years ago

    @eonfigure said:

    People wanting to increase their volley fire...No! You're getting bored, and you just want something to play with. This isnt a mod so that you can have every unit be ~super combat effective. This is about balance. Rifles are Titans. The incentive here is combined arms; "I need RE's on the front for their smoke to support my troops, the downside is they cant fight very wel.l" Just like engineers, just pioneers....

    That makes no sense. The ability it outright useless in msot cases and has needed a boost ever since it got toned down from its instant-pin status to free kills here. No one is asking for Volley-Fire to go back to pre-nerf levels, but it needs to be useful so Rear Echelon can assist in combat via munitions.

    If you want to give them smoke, give them a Rifle Grenade launcher that they can use outside of the trench which would be the US equivalent to a flamer that gets smoke with the grenade upgrade. Still means they lose a weapon slot to the launcher and stops RE from having extreme firepower (double guns) with smoke.

  • #45
    2 years ago
    Curious about smoke launcher upgrade @miragefla would the smoke then be free with a cooldown or like now but cheaper per use? Or independent of the fuel side grade its in now (maybe allow all officers to get smoke with the fuel tech and have the launcher its own thing?)

    Also obviously the flamethrower would need locked out if the launcher is purchased
  • #46
    2 years ago

    @miragefla said:
    If you want to give them smoke, give them a Rifle Grenade launcher that they can use outside of the trench which would be the US equivalent to a flamer that gets smoke with the grenade upgrade. Still means they lose a weapon slot to the launcher and stops RE from having extreme firepower (double guns) with smoke.

    I too want to see the REs rifle-nade get more usage outside of the pits. @thedarkarmadillo I think it should be free w/ cooldown in ambient buildings/pits/etc. and then 15 muni outside.

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