DBP Balance Feedback



  • #62
    3 years ago
    FRP are in general really bad for the game. I remember back in vanilla days, when mass retreat was punished. When pushing off the enemy was rewarded.with FRP the amount of pressure you can keep up, especially against EFA who are punished for retreating is incredible. And im glad its at least somewhat being addressed
  • #63
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951
    edited November 2017

    @mrgame2 said:

    Same can be said wit SU85, Jackson and Firefly. Spam them, sit in a line, push forward slowly.

    No, it can't because they don't have 70 range, they don't take ~9 seconds to kill medium armor and they don't have 400 armor + 1080 HP. Additionally, its a crapton harder to micro multiple tanks over one uber-tank, especially when its multiple SU-85s.

    At least with Elephant, it is a single slow ass sniper unit. So unless your tanks sit around for it to 2-shot. lol. You just rush it with 3-4 cheap Allies tanks, and you can do mark target, penal satchet, lots of easy snares.

    I like how you mention allied snares, but completely forget Axis have them as well. If there's 3-4 cheap Allied tanks rushing your Ele, where the fuck is your supporting infantry, where are your mines, your paks mgs, etc?

    EDIT: New patchnotes look good, Ost T4 fix has been a ludicrously long time coming, it'll be nice to finally see Brums outside 3v3/4v4 or stomps

  • #64
    3 years ago

    happy to see the game still have future plans

    i completely agree with IMPERIALDANE i strongly urge you to see his posted video

    i'm surprised to see axis nerfs honestly axis do NOT have a single unit that would excel compared unit from allies.

    all allies infantry are superior to axis from the same tier in combat and utility. i mean fighting USF trying to counter an infantry spam with MG but they all have smoke is like saying nope your MG is useless. I know now the plan is to move smoke Rear Echelon and Lieutenant but still is not a tactical challenge compared to use smoke from a mortar.

    Pioneers are a human rights crime they are useless in battle they are the only units to repair and have to run them back for every tier upgrade compare that to similar units from allies.

    medium tanks for axis are all useless with the exception of the stug. P4 can't hold its own vs Cromwell vs T-34/85 (no one use T-34/76). Ostwind is not scary enough to infantry they still 1 unit can chase and try to cripple it with no fear of wipe compare that with Centaur AA if i try to run and cripple the tank with 1 unit 100% wipe.

    panther nerf is beyond understanding i will take Comet stats even after you nerfed it and put on a panther and give the panther stats to the comet with no nerf i will be very happy. It seems that you forget that the panther is utterly useless vs infantry so you have to make huge investment to get to t4 and then get a very expensive tank that is only decent vs other tanks (when it is standing still) vs a Comet a very fast tank which can hold its own vs tanks and kill infantry.

    it seems your removing any late game tools for axis and completely forgetting the mess that axis have to deal with in early game fighting the T70 nightmare, M5A1 Stuart and the much less scary AEC. and what you decied is lets give a small buff to the 222 and make it expinsive yet its still it is not scary enough to infantry they can baith in its rounds while capping and then retreat where if any unit try to even stay for a few seconds vs T70 its 100% wipe also lets not forget the T70, AEC and Stuart are hard-counters for the mediocre 222

    Also you need to look into Bofors and mortar pit combo once those are built they are impossible to remove even in a front line. If you think its ok as it is then axis should get access to brace ability for there emplacement as well i mean when was the last time you seen some one build a pak 43 you just need 1 mortar to kill it. the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters is not as half good as Bofors and its a life line for OKW yet they can not be braced?

    (Also imperial day is correct, but I found Ice his post a better comparison to what I feel)
    Axis is already so weak...

    Historically a tiger was strong, very strong proof:

    Why are the current developers making allies stronger stronger and stronger?
    and Axis weaker...........

  • #65
    3 years ago
    SentinelZeroSentinelZ… Posts: 7
    edited November 2017

    I dont know what I was thinking about with this..lol.

  • #66
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited November 2017

    @Baálthazor said:
    Once again, you are taking vehicles which are PERFECTLY FINE and gutting them, because of some arbitrary reason. They already have such severe drawbacks that hardly anybody uses them in 1v1. So in order to cater to the team games players, you are intent on doing so at the cost of the 1v1 players..?

    So catering to the overwhelming majority of their players instead of the much smaller sample size they've been catering to for the last 4 years is still a problem for people? Man if you like 1v1s the best that's fine for you and I got no problem with that; but Relic has been catering to 1v1 players since launch, so I can't accept that it's unfair to anyone that things are now changing.

    2v2s and up have never really been competitive at all since the WFAs were launched, and the entire time this was happening all I ever heard was "1v1 is all that matters". Well to this day I do not understand why that is true, the common argument is that "1v1s are the only competitive game mode". Yeah, no kidding, that's cause Relic was making changes focused around 1v1. It's a catch 22, how can 2v2 ever be competitive if you completely ignore how its affected by the changes you make?

  • #67
    3 years ago

    Thanks @GunGrave for your excellent post!!!!!

  • #68
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited November 2017

    @Lazarus said:
    640 HP jackson is also a real wtf moment for me given that we're supposed to be adding strategic diversity, not reinforcing allied inf -> TD spam.

    Being 400mp and 140 fuel now doesn't help prevent the spamming? I feel like the change is the perfect balance, people spam jacksons because they die in 3 shots and they are relatively cheap. Neither of those things are true now.

    Also, just noticed that V1.1 nerfed its moving acc modifier from .75 to .65.

  • #69
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    I don't disapprove them catering to the larger game modes players because I somehow have anything against them. Like you said, if that's what floats your boat, go for it, knock yourself out. In that respect, 3v3's or 4v4's are no more "wrong" or "bad" to play than 1v1's...

    I'm against them focusing on those gamemodes, because even with much, MUCH less complicated games than CoH2, those modes are notoriously difficult to balance and with a game as complex and intricate as this one, I'm all but 100% certain that it will a complete and utter waste of precious time and resources...
    time and resources that they don't have anymore...
  • #71
    3 years ago

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    I don't know why USF deserve mines. They already have access to mines in 4 out of 8 doctrines and demos in 2 of 8 commanders. Has Relic any notion of asymmetrical factions?

    Do you? Because the M7 Light AT mine is nothing like any of the mines on any of the other factions (stock or otherwise) and is decidedly the worst. It is the molotov of mines, its cheapness is its most redeeming quality.

    If the mine still damages engines, it's outstanding value. 15 munis to damage engines, USF can spam them everywhere. I'd say a stun for 2 seconds like the soviet tank hunter mine is the most the 15 munis should offer.

  • #72
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited November 2017

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    If the mine still damages engines, it's outstanding value. 15 munis to damage engines, USF can spam them everywhere. I'd say a stun for 2 seconds like the soviet tank hunter mine is the most the 15 munis should offer.

    They don't, you need more than 1 clustered to cause any crits. It's the same mine US assault engies/Riflemen+field defenses used to have before they were deemed not good enough.

  • #73
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @SentinelZero said:
    Since the molotov upgrade has been merged with the anti-tank upgrade for the Soviets (which I think is good), is there any chance we might get the PIAT and Brens consolidated for Brits?

    You mean like they are from day 1 brit release?

  • #74
    3 years ago
    bloberblober Posts: 13

    About armor tanks
    the difference between the Allies medium tanks and the German heavy tanks is meager, normally tiger 1 in front is hardly penetrable unless it is very close. We need to increase the armor Axis tanks in front (panther, tiger1 and tiger2) to force the Allies player to flank with mobile medium tanks. Adjusted the cost of the tanks according to the buff. So IS-2 and ISU-152 armor front must be increased too. The armor front of the churchill must be nerf.
    My opinion, thank you to consider

  • #76
    3 years ago

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    If the mine still damages engines, it's outstanding value. 15 munis to damage engines, USF can spam them everywhere. I'd say a stun for 2 seconds like the soviet tank hunter mine is the most the 15 munis should offer.

    They don't, you need more than 1 clustered to cause any crits. It's the same mine US assault engies/Riflemen+field defenses used to have before they were deemed not good enough.

    So planting 2 mines WILL cause engine damage. 2 mines = 30 munis. The same amount for any other mine. Hence these mines give the same effect. Seriously, if USF players can't play without mines, just pick one of the docs with them. The USF faction has a lot of unique abilities going for it already while both Axis factions are getting nerfed. Ostheer would love to have some of those abilities. What if Ost got Ostruppen non-doc at tier 0 in addition to grenadiers at tier 1. It's the worst infantry in the game so, shouldn't be a problem, right?

  • #77
    3 years ago

    Since Jackson is getting buffed, many USF players have agreed to allow RE to only get single zooked. Perhaps major too. Make that happen, Relic. I know I sound like an annoying teacher, but remember, there must be give and take.

  • #78
    3 years ago
    KiethSomataw99KiethSoma… Posts: 105
    edited November 2017

    I think the Pershing should get a smokescreen ability since the Sherman tanks have it and the Pershing has no crew to disembark.

  • #79
    3 years ago


    The map is the updated version.

    We didnt feel the cons changes, i felt that it was really easy to dominate cons early game, the panther still ok, it comes faster now but i had early fuel control so i didnt notice the changes in the price, same with the sturmtiger maybe could change the vet 1 grenade launcher ability, it seems kinda useless, maxim was ok acording to tomas, he didnt notice the molotov change but i did, now that it comes with the at nade it will be more used. I noticed that the t35/76 now comes with the fuel tanks that 85s had but it wasnt mentioned in the notes. Kubel seemed ok but i didnt try it vs other factions, gotta see vs usf and brits. I also noticed that the medics of the battlegroup hq seemed to go further, was the range modied like the fbp? Elite armor commnader seems perfect, except for that tank commander that seems kinda underpowered, could be changed or change it for other thing? The new garrison system feels kinda weird but gotta test it more. The repair speed didnt feel like a big change also but i had the mechanized engineers so maybe was because of that. NKVD strafe is good but the other abilities make the commander feel like it has little inpact.

  • #80
    3 years ago
    Gotta agree with @Lazarus here. Allied factions have very potent AT specialists, which in of itself isnt a problem, but they dont really NEED to build anything else with their fuel which IS a problem. If infantry can sack tap enemy infantry at will all you need armoir for is to counter the enemy armour, and since allies have exclusively hard hitting 60 range TDs... Well we have all played the game... Players spammed jacksons because if there was a threat that a kitted out rifle blob couldnt focus fire down it meant you needed a bigger blob, not armour.
  • #81
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    Ill clarify that Im not against changes to the Jackson - id just like to acknowledge that with the several potent nerfs OKW are getting at the moment and the Panther vet change we're already putting the Jackson in a much better position - the full HP buff is reinforcing an existing meta in a way that I dont feel is in the spirit of the patch.

    If the Jackson must retain 640 HP, and there is an argument that it must - it needs to lose the 200 damage and just become a conventional TD with a better pen profilethen what it has.
  • #82
    3 years ago

    Is it at all conceivable to have seperate balance for team and 1v1's? I know it's a far fetched example but Gears of War has a lot of varying modes ranging from casual to professional tournament level matchmaking modes with their relative balance to weapon profiles etc etc.

  • #83
    3 years ago
    big_tigerbig_tiger Posts: 20
    edited November 2017

    What if every faction had the +25% (or some other number per faction) minesweeper repair speed added? It would help discourage engie spam in team games, because more than 1 sweeper would be redundant+an investment. At the same time you wouldn't have to spam engies in smaller scales quite so much late game just to keep your tanks in the fight. You'd have to spend your more limited munis on redundant sweepers to spam effectively.

    I get the desire to normalize/slow repair speed, but having to spam repair squads to make up for it isn't fun.

    Also what happened to my post about 340 damage tracking AT satchels? I edited it and it disappeared.

  • #84
    3 years ago
    ReichsgardeReichsgar… Bad Tolz, Bayern, GermanyPosts: 121
    edited November 2017

    First of all, I am not entirely sure how Relic expects us to use Sturmpionier squads aggressively if they are not buffing their received accuracy bonuses or their firepower. Relic, you do know that Sturmpioniers are particularly vulnerable to focus fire? They are expensive to reinforce and they will be wiped out almost instantaneously if they try to be aggressive. (Speaking of infantry received accuracy, I want to ask, why are British infantry sections so hard to kill?)

    Also why would you remove the repair speeds on the Sturmpionier. It was one of the few saving graces for the OKW. As you all know very well, due to super high fuel costs for OKW tanks and their high pop cap requirements, OKW cannot afford to produce a lot of tanks. Having fast repair speeds allowed a couple of OKW tanks to jump in and out of combat to face a numerically (and too often qualitatively) superior Allied/Soviet tanks.

    Also, it appears that Relic has NOT incorporated much of our feedback regarding German medium tanks and the Panther veterancy bonuses. I can only hope that these changes will be incorporated in subsequent patch releases.

    Once again, I state that Axis factions do NOT require nerfs by any means. They need to be buffed because as of now, many of their units are just plain ineffective for the hefty cost they incur. Sometimes I feel that these units are just pale reflections of their actual historical counterparts that they are supposed to represent.

    If this is where DBP patch is going, I would rather stay with what we have now.

    One more thing, I just cannot understand why Relic thinks that Wehrmacht and OKW units are overperforming. Why don't you guys sit down and play against an equally-skilled USF/UKF/Soviet opponent? Let's see if you guys still think the same way.

  • #85
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    For anyone wondering - those FRP changes (the cooldowns/cost increase) include USF as well as UKF/OKW.

  • #86
    3 years ago

    "Panther V
    Unlike the OKW Panther, we feel the OST Panther is more or less in a good spot. However, to make it somewhat more reliable in combat, the variable reload time of the main gun has been reduced.

    Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
    Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed
    Reload time decreased from 5.8 - 6.7 to 5.2 - 5.6 (reload time does not include wind-up)


    Sly Relic!
    This reload time is for only Vet 5 OKW Panther and Vet 3 OST Panther.
    The standard reload time is the same. 6.5-7 sec.
    I Tested it!

  • #87
    3 years ago
    • Sturmtiger changes
      I don't know right now the damage from the avre. But when we reduce the damage of the Sturmtiger, one should know about the reloading time then. To balance avre and Sturmtiger

    • Jackson+ Firefly
      One have to be carefull, that they are not gonna be too weak. I don't say that the changes are wrong, but like if you nerf the accuracy from both, then one should increase the Penetration

    • J4p
      I miss this unit. Like Increase the fuelcost. Every TD cost more then J4p but will lose to J4p

  • #88
    3 years ago

    Why not give OST a Tiger 1 instead of the Panther? Make the Panther a doctrine unit instead.

  • #89
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    > @Widerstreit said:
    > Why not give OST a Tiger 1 instead of the Panther? Make the Panther a doctrine unit instead.

    Yup, exactly what I was advocating. Even if the Tiger itself is a bit too underwhelming for its cost atm, it would still make Ost tier 4 worth something again, plus bring a new element to the various docs that would now hold a panther instead... :)
  • #90
    3 years ago
    bloberblober Posts: 13

    @Widerstreit said:
    Why not give OST a Tiger 1 instead of the Panther? Make the Panther a doctrine unit instead.

    Like 6000 panther was created, 1300 for Tiger.

  • #91
    3 years ago
    @blober and how many centaur vs t34/85s? Production numbers dont mean anything for balance
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