December Commander Revamp Feedback Thread

124

Comments

  • #92
    3 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited December 2017

    Not sure I like the changes to encirclement that mgs no longer get sprint. Sprint is only useful for pgrens and mgs. Pios can't beat anything more than a cons squad at full health point blank. Grens don't want to get close. Why do grens need to sprint? To get away from mgs. By the time you see an mg, it will be too late you'll be suppressed. To get away from rifle/penal/cons? When you sprint away, the enemy will simply follow you if you don't have mg support. Pointless. You lose the engagement either way. Encirclement allows mgs to escape flanks something that the 50 cal get non-doctrinally. And even without sprint the 50 cal has the pack up time of almost live version dskha which means you can use it like one without the over the top dps that the dksha has.

    Just remove sprint from pios and put them on mg

  • #93
    3 years ago

    Storm doctrine has lost the tactical movement ability button in 1.6.

  • #94
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    The WC51 is interesting, but OKW's lack of fausts makes it a nightmare for them to deal with, especially since you can build two and screen out Kubels and sturms without much of a problem. Giving it a long cooldown/start on cooldown or giving the OKW fausts from the start would likely fix this pretty easily.

    Recon frag bombs are pretty weird and I love them, but they might be a bit much for 90 muni. A cost increase to like 120 would probably call it a day performance wise. The descriptor for it also doesn't really explain the ability well and the part about anti-tamper makes them sound more like vCoh's butterfly bombs.

    Firestorm is pretty awesome so far. The only complaint I have is the Opel's acceleration/deceleration is incredibly poor which is definitely an issue given how short the aura range is.

  • #95
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    Aqua said:
    The WC51 is interesting, but OKW's lack of fausts makes it a nightmare for them to deal with, especially since you can build two and screen out Kubels and sturms without much of a problem. Giving it a long cooldown/start on cooldown or giving the OKW fausts from the start would likely fix this pretty easily.

    This is a huge issue. If you immediately pop a pair and let REs drive them and chuck the crews in the back you have a pair of clown cars with sub guns in less then 2 minutes and the amount of field presence you will lose fighting that off will be impossible to return from. Ironically Ost seems to be able to counter this with their own T0, but it requires essentially flawless play.

    The other option is to make it so squads can't shoot out the back until you get the .50 cal upgrade.

  • #96
    3 years ago
    Can you make them so they unlock from t0 so you lose some time with building and balance it that way? Okw DOES have a t0 at gun thats often pushed up in the BO for soviet clown car anyways, but adding a build time means it slows the opening abit
  • #97
    3 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    @Xloss said:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    Wow 1.6 nerfs Ostruppen even further. Increasing cooldown from 12 to 35!? THAT'S TRIPLE THE TIME!!That is downright awful. I understand that Ostruppen spam on certain maps is very tough to deal with as Brits especially, but they need to survive the first few minutes and get brens asap. the Ost player will bleed out so fast he'll regret that he spammed Ostruppen. I think a better nerf would be to increase the price of Ostruppen a bit after the 3rd squad.

    I think we should revert the reinforce nerf if the cooldown is nerfed.

    The main problem of their Cooldown is allies will have 2 squad while you can field 3-5 squad with in that time.
    So its regulated so it will not over run the opposing side. Even with bulletin fast deployments other units don't give 12 sec cool down/recruitment.

    They got MG upgrade. Your argument about brengun is now nullified.
    They are not suppose to win vs Infantry section anyway with their cost to cost comparison.
    The main problem is never use all Ostruppen. You got PG too.
    Its not like USF that don't have any other option in their INF till they get a commander.

    An mg upgrade that comes VERY late into the game. By that time your bren guns would have bled Ostheer dry. If you haven't realized, Ostruppen already win vs IS in the live patch. They can actually come close to winning if RNG is fair to both sides. 3 IS men = 105mp. 5 ostruppen = 80mp. In many scenarios Ostruppen will lose 5 men while the IS lose 3 men. Or if IS only lose 2 men, it still costs 70. Ostruppen trade more equally with IS then grens. And Ostheer just stalled up a 280 squad with only 200 mp. That is another win in itself. Time is also a resource. The more time spent fighting the less time spent capping precious resources. If Ostruppen didn't trade favorably vs Brits, then why would Ostheer players still have the doc on loadout? Because they certainly struggle more vs penal/rifle.

    You totally forgot that you got a lot of arsenal at your hands, MG, Grenz, mortar, sniper.

    That is why i mentioned
    "Never use all Ostruppen"

    Its not like you unlock your T1 within 5-8mins.
    You unlock it with in 1 min.
    Then you got access for more than 5 units in your rooster.> @Lazarus said:

    Aqua said:
    The WC51 is interesting, but OKW's lack of fausts makes it a nightmare for them to deal with, especially since you can build two and screen out Kubels and sturms without much of a problem. Giving it a long cooldown/start on cooldown or giving the OKW fausts from the start would likely fix this pretty easily.

    This is a huge issue. If you immediately pop a pair and let REs drive them and chuck the crews in the back you have a pair of clown cars with sub guns in less then 2 minutes and the amount of field presence you will lose fighting that off will be impossible to return from. Ironically Ost seems to be able to counter this with their own T0, but it requires essentially flawless play.

    The other option is to make it so squads can't shoot out the back until you get the .50 cal upgrade.

    You forgot that you cannot spam WC51 coz of Muni upgrade for its .50 cal right?
    Calling it from the start is a waste of MP coz you need to wait for 4-6mins for an 60 munition MG upgrade.

  • #98
    3 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Can you make them so they unlock from t0 so you lose some time with building and balance it that way? Okw DOES have a t0 at gun thats often pushed up in the BO for soviet clown car anyways, but adding a build time means it slows the opening abit

    No need for changes. MG .50 cal upgrade will delay its use for 3-6 mins depending if you got Munition point.

    I tried the WC51 yesterday evening. You cannot rush bleed the enemy at all. Kubel spam will still dominate at 1-6mins
    till the MG upgrade is done and also upgrading the mg will delay it more coz of the time of the upgrade

  • #99
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    @Xloss you don't need the MG upgrade to fuck up OKW's day, just throw a rifle squad in the back and you can bleed the hell out of them. Kite the sturms, run down the Kubels and charge the Volks, bonus points for unloading the rifles then staggering the Volks with the WC51 itself and they can't stop you because Volks have no fausts until they tech. Its pretty much the same problem USF is having against OKW's kubels in live

  • #100
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    > @Xloss said:
    > You forgot that you cannot spam WC51 coz of Muni upgrade for its .50 cal right?
    > Calling it from the start is a waste of MP coz you need to wait for 4-6mins for an 60 munition MG upgrade.

    I didnt forget anything. I explicitly said you pop WC51, get the crew to bail out, have the REs drive and the vehicle crew ride and shoot out the back. Accounting for the amount of time it takes you to bail the crew and remount, that combo takes less than 15 seconds to set up from the beginning of the game. So nah, 4 - 6 minutes isnt it at all.


    We'll all be glad to know though, the target table is bugged and squads are shooting at the people riding the WC51 - not the car itself making it massively more durable because the DPS is being spread out. So yes - currently it is too durable and will be getting fixed.
  • #101
    3 years ago

    What role now have KV-1 ?
    Adding him to t4, with so poor buff make him worse.
    So, he are not good like AI (coz t-34-76 and 85 are better then him and cheaper). Like AT he have poor penetretion and low speed with 40 range. Like churchille tank, he have low HP.

    @Mr_Smith ?

  • #102
    3 years ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 935 mod
    edited December 2017

    Many new things to get used to.

    The USF Recon Company Commander is very muni heavy. The drops are now both munitions and the M8 can be a muni hog, it just feels muni starved. Instead of muni to drop the paratroopers and AT gun (which then require more muni's to upgrade), switching back to Manpower for the drop would give more options to use the USF flexible builds.

    The M8 which comes at 4 CP's is a bit more useful, but I've always wondered if giving it the ability to lay mines like the M20 would be helpful. It seems if you go M8 you would not go M20, but the M20 mine is so very value added to shape the battlefield.

    Mechanized Support, new favorite commander. Very fun to play. I don't know if balanced, but the WC51 no fuel options and the ability to drop arty as well as assault engineers and the dozer, what is not to love. Every kid who has ever played with an erector set's dream.

  • #103
    3 years ago

    Regarding the changes to infiltration commando's and fallshirmjaegers. Spawing the unit at 3 men is not the way to go. If your trying to adjust their wiping ability, grenades start on cooldown (if they arent already). You guys have done great work but this change is one that doesnt fit. If you decide to keep this does it then mean that stormtroopers and partisans should enter the battlefield understrenght? I hope you will revert this change. Keep up the great work..

  • #104
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    Yeah, infiltrator changes are a bit odd since it forces them to go for a cheese wipe since they can't function for very long without being forced to retreat, which sort of makes the infiltration meh for its intended purpose.

  • #105
    3 years ago
    Since infiltration units are FINALLY in scope can we PLEASE get an option to build the unit in t0 for a bit cheaper and full powered (instead of paying the "building spawn premium" and getting a reduced power squad)
    Id love to actually infiltrate, now having camo from the go really opens them up for non cheesy DPS face raping reliance.
  • #106
    3 years ago

    Fusiliers got nerfed way too hard. 4 nerfs in total:

    1. Big pop cap nerf from 6 to 8. They are very slightly better than riflemen and certainly worse than 5 man IS. Both those units are 7 cap
    2. Sight nerf
    3. Vet 4 weapon range nerf
    4. vet 4 weapon accuracy nerf

    The only buff it gets is again a rather insignificant one. Vet 4 capping speed bonus. In a doc with breakthrough tactics, that is even more pointless.

    Relic is supposed to be encouraging diversity of strategy and build order. That was why volks were nerfed. And now they are telling you there is little reason to get fusiliers because they will suck as much as your stock volks after these nerfs. My suggesting is that the vet 4 combat bonus nerfs should be reverted. Just think about it: volks basically stop getting better combat after vet 3. If fusiliers are the same then why get them? Because that 6th man is THAT important? All the other doctrinal infantry scale all the way to vet 5. This is what I mean about Relic giving many OKW units pure fluff at vet 4 and 5. Same with rak vet.

    On a side note I think giving volks the faster cap at vet 4 is far better than a lousy +5 sight in cover. It would give volks more utility than what they are now - Ostruppen with stgs. Into the late game volks can no longer carry the fight, so sending them to cap the flanks would be a more reasonable task for volks.

  • #107
    3 years ago
    Pilot3DPilot3D Posts: 18
    edited December 2017

    Mechanized Company

    I really like how you have remade this commander, but i think mortar half track is too much. I mean this company already has enough light vehicle. I propose to replace the mortar half track on m1919 (Passive ability wich unlock acces) or on riflemen field defences.

  • #108
    3 years ago

    Thanks to all the folks making the DBP. Im really enjoying it all. One thing I would ask.. Please make some changes to Wehrmact Mechanized Commander halftrack. This is a unit that deserves alittle love. Maybe a machine gun? Reinforcement? Give it some utility. Its a great looking unit but right now its just showpiece. Keep up the great work.

  • #110
    3 years ago
    ^^ Similarily the m4c
  • #111
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited December 2017

    USF recon company

    -Greyhound performs very well, much better then I expected, but GT canister shot is beyond useless waste of ammo.

    -That para dropped bomblets, while pretty amazing ability, probably deal a tad too high damage, however I used them against already wounded squads, so it might be fine.

    -Ok, so combat group is actually a great addition to T1, elite zooks on paras+AT gun seem like enough to cover AT needs in mid game.

    However I feel like the commander overall is way too ammo heavy, you either need to spam muni caches or you won't be able to use anything over doctrines abilities.

  • #112
    3 years ago

    I tested the new mechanized commander, i like it, it feels really good but i think it needs some changes. I liked the ability to withdraw vehicles from the front in change of their resources, it was a cool ability, i dont know why it was removed. The recon ability was kinda useless because we have the recon from the major, i guess that change was cool, i like the new WC51, it feels really good compared to the old one but can we get the 50 cal back at the start? It feels really useless at the begining without it. Other point, the combat engineer with the m5 halftrack, i dont know if people really uses it, could we get a Pershing instead to fight the KT? It would be like that soviet commander with the t34-85 and the IS2 doctrine. Overall i really like the changes, keep the good work :)

  • #113
    3 years ago
    MirlandMirland SpainPosts: 6

    Doctrine elite troops:

    I know that this doctrine does not fall within the changes planned for this patch but a small change would make it playable

    Shock troops:

    The elite infiltration troops that are experts in disrupting enemy supply lines. These units can be implemented from any environmental building.

    This doctrine focuses on tanks and elite units, but it would be better to give the tanks more priority than the infantry, then I would change the assault troops for this:

    Tank Commanders:

    Increased vision of the tanks and mobility. You could choose between this and the mg42 on bolt.

  • #114
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229
    edited December 2017

    I think Wehrmacht needs more love. I am not excited with arty commander or jaeger commander like I am with USF and OKW changes.

    Also, up the dmg on falls so they can still wipe squads on retreat after bld spawn. Its a huge ball breaker if they cant do that anymore due to initial three man squad. Thier dmg should be equal to obers w/ mg upgrade.

    What do you guys think if we swaped the smoke grenade in exchange for fire armor piercing rounds similar to the mg 42, I think that would make falls more fun to play and better suited against vehicles and inf blobs.

  • #115
    3 years ago
    Omid_HesamOmid_Hesam Islamic Republic of IRANPosts: 142

    This balance is great
    now I can play firestorm doctrine again!
    but a little thing remains about flak 20mm emplacements in luftwaffe doctrine
    please give them veterancy
    this will be good for them

  • #116
    3 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    We need to change the WC51 vets that will go with its new role/ability.

    Vet 1 the same + Auto attack range (not sure about this one really)

    Vet 2 acceleration/rotation speed + readjust/reduction the vanilla vet for the new Barrage Ability

             It need speed for it to survive AT gun fires specially with the long range TD at late game
             It will die to PGrenz dual shreck
    

    Vet 3 barrage range increase + readjust/reduce the vanilla vet for the new Barrage Ability)

            Needed super late game where tanks roam.
    

    Can't recommend to add sight range increase on it, that would be over powered with the barrage combo.

    @Omid_Hesam said:
    This balance is great
    now I can play firestorm doctrine again!
    but a little thing remains about flak 20mm emplacements in luftwaffe doctrine
    please give them veterancy
    this will be good for them

    The Flack emplacement for Axis are now fixed in the patch, tried it today.
    It does not collide in terrain anymore.
    Its very good now you can deal damage to light vehicle and inf with it.

  • #117
    3 years ago
    xyers6xyers6 ChinaPosts: 1

    I believed that nobody would like to use the Heroic Charge in the December balance V1.6 ,
    it really cost too much with worse effect and the same duration time. Unfortunately,the ability shares cooldown with gammon bomb :'(:'(
    Vanguard Operation Regiment is one of my favorite commander,
    sadly, new Heroic Charge and Churchill "Crocodile" make me feel terribly.

  • #118
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    edited December 2017

    @Xloss said:
    We need to change the WC51 vets that will go with its new role/ability.

    Vet 1 the same + Auto attack range (not sure about this one really)

    Vet 2 acceleration/rotation speed + readjust/reduction the vanilla vet for the new Barrage Ability

             It need speed for it to survive AT gun fires specially with the long range TD at late game
             It will die to PGrenz dual shreck
    

    Vet 3 barrage range increase + readjust/reduce the vanilla vet for the new Barrage Ability)

    Needed super late game where tanks roam.

    Can't recommend to add sight range increase on it, that would be over powered with the barrage combo.

    While your suggestions about tweaking WC-51 veterancy are excellent, there is the issue that WC-51 can't attain veterancy reliably due to its fixed-arc MG.

    The obvious solution here would be add shared veterancy. Unfortunately, due to the way USF vehicle crew mechanic works, shared veterancy doesn't transfer to the crew, and you would end up losing XP levels every time you would decrew the vehicle. This is why we tried to bundle all essential WC-related stats to Vet0 (super-mobility, good long-range DPS, and some utility-oriented abilities).

    Otherwise, we would have gladly implemented the veterancy bonuses you recommend.

  • #119
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited December 2017

    @Mr_Smith said:

    @Xloss said:
    We need to change the WC51 vets that will go with its new role/ability.

    Vet 1 the same + Auto attack range (not sure about this one really)

    Vet 2 acceleration/rotation speed + readjust/reduction the vanilla vet for the new Barrage Ability

             It need speed for it to survive AT gun fires specially with the long range TD at late game
             It will die to PGrenz dual shreck
    

    Vet 3 barrage range increase + readjust/reduce the vanilla vet for the new Barrage Ability)

    Needed super late game where tanks roam.

    Can't recommend to add sight range increase on it, that would be over powered with the barrage combo.

    While your suggestions about tweaking WC-51 veterancy are excellent, there is the issue that WC-51 can't attain veterancy reliably due to its fixed-arc MG.

    The obvious solution here would be add shared veterancy. Unfortunately, due to the way USF vehicle crew mechanic works, shared veterancy doesn't transfer to the crew, and you would end up losing XP levels every time you would decrew the vehicle. This is why we tried to bundle all essential WC-related stats to Vet0 (super-mobility, good long-range DPS, and some utility-oriented abilities).

    Otherwise, we would have gladly implemented the veterancy bonuses you recommend.

    If fixed weapon is an obstacle in obtaining vet, why not lower vet requirements then?

    M3 and Kubel suffer same fate with both being completely unable to vet on their own.

    All 3 of them have a very short window of opportunity and aren't exactly hard to counter from get go, so they might've just as well vet faster then others.

  • #120
    3 years ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 420
    edited December 2017

    Feuersturm Doctrine

    I don't really get why you keep the call-in hetzer. Since it's buildable from hq as well it is just weird compared to other commander where it would be a passive ability Don't know if it's intended or not. Maybe you could do like the usf m4c ability that grant the tank + an upgrade for other tank.
    I think that assault package and incendiary munitions could be merged and free one slot for another ability, it's a bit limitative since it only apply to leigs.
    It would be nice to update the opel truck description to know it reduce cooldown before you summont in. Currently the description tells you it reinforce and "supply munition", this last part being a bit vague and the 2nd part of the description says "new unit".

  • #121
    3 years ago

    Fusiliers seem pointless now. They do not advance well for late game to justify their existence, they have no really useful skill, for a unit a little better than the rifleman. If the idea was to promote the use of different units this seems wrong.

    I think they could even raise their price a little if they wanted to make them into a more elite unit, but these nerfs defeat the purpose of unity.

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