[OKW] Flame Grenades early out

#1
3 years ago

OKW Flame grenades are now out in a 4vs4 game after 2 minutes.
I think that's way too early considering how much damage they can deal and that they have such a low recharge time.

Suggestion: OKW should research flame nades.

Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    And how would they then deal with early garrisons?
    The OKW doesn't have any garrison clearance tools before the flame nade, so they kinda need it. Otherwise it would just be garrison-play galore against them every single game...
  • #3
    3 years ago
    I would really rather sturmpios get the damn flame nade than being on every volks squad and put the flame nade on rhe urban assault upgrade instead of the standard nade (which should be made stock)

    Sturms should be your early choice for clearing garrisons. Give em a buff vs garrisoned units and grant them some more combat relivance past 5 min
  • #4
    3 years ago
    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > I would really rather sturmpios get the damn flame nade than being on every volks squad and put the flame nade on rhe urban assault upgrade instead of the standard nade (which should be made stock)
    >
    > Sturms should be your early choice for clearing garrisons. Give em a buff vs garrisoned units and grant them some more combat relivance past 5 min

    It does make sense for Sturms to actually, you know, Storm. I'm worried about them costing an arm and a leg while dropping like flies on approach, though. Not to mention they are already loaded with combat roles, laying mines, sweeping, at, repair, etc.
  • #5
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited December 2017

    @Bogeyfox said:
    Suggestion: OKW should research flame nades.

    @Baálthazor said:
    And how would they then deal with early garrisons?

    By researching flame nades?

  • #6
    3 years ago

    @SkysTheLimit написал:

    By researching flame nades?

    It will simply come too late, especially in team games.
    Today patch made all game timings to favor of allies, and early game of OKW will become even more terrible.

  • #7
    3 years ago
    @Noitatohtori sturms have a decent target size (not tommies good tommies have to close to deal damage and cant get a 5th man...oh wait.) The target size, ignoring all the terrain thats been removed and STGs clearly intend for them to be assault units i think they just need a bit of tweaking. Ideally id like to see volks lose their STGs and have sturms a bit better at their job and a flame nade would be a great start
  • #9
    3 years ago
    oRi0noRi0n Posts: 63

    They put a timer on the flame nades now, and it's not like they deal instant damage. You shouldn't be losing more than like 1 model to them (and that rarely) on infantry squads if you're paying attention. They're really only good now vs garrisons, team weapons and inattentive gamers. If you want to move them from volks to sturms and take them off volks, you have to make sturms cost like 220 mp (cause they're too squishy and expensive to take on yet another roll when they have too many tasks already). Then we'd have to start building more sturms and fewer volks. I don't think anybody REALLY wants 3 sturm squads with 2 volks armies. That's just silly. Even with the flame nades, OKW struggle vs opponents who rush garrison, especially opponents who spam HMGs. I mean they cost 30 munitions each (which takes a minute or 2 to acquire in the first place), you can't just throw one at every building somebody hops into.

    Taking the STG off the volks doesn't really work for late game in any scenario. You could buff the crap out of their veterancy so they're still relevant, but then new squads built late game would be totally helpless. You could give them better long range damage, but then they'd be OP early game and even more dangerous in the hands of a good player than they are with the STGs.

  • #10
    3 years ago

    @Orion
    Thing is that it denies cover. A lot of it in fact. Plus fire itself deals a lot of damage. If in case of a wehr rifle grenade you can move a bit along the cover or micro out-in to avoid most of the damage and still fight in cover, here you can't. Your guys will be dead. Switch it to regular greande will do the trick.
    The above also goes for garrisons.

  • #11
    3 years ago
    oRi0noRi0n Posts: 63

    @Tezozomoctzin said:
    @Orion
    Thing is that it denies cover. A lot of it in fact. Plus fire itself deals a lot of damage. If in case of a wehr rifle grenade you can move a bit along the cover or micro out-in to avoid most of the damage and still fight in cover, here you can't. Your guys will be dead. Switch it to regular greande will do the trick.
    The above also goes for garrisons.

    I don't think you're going to find much agreement here. OKW is ridiculously vulnerable to all forms of early game HMG spam and building camping already. Nobody wants people just jumping out of buildings and jumping back in. They need that flame grenade for buildings. Does it give them an extra edge in regular cover engagements early on, yah maybe, but they also have the weakest light vehicle (from a combat perspective anyway) and no T0 HMG, mortar or smoke. Moreover the ONLY OKW infantry transport is the opel blitz in Feuersturm, so there's no means of driving behind suppression before popping out to fight. I'd also argue OKW is generally better off keeping the flame nade's use to a bare minimum early in the game if at all possible...

    A strategic OKW player will be trying to save the munitions early on so they're available for the all-important volks weapon upgrades after the first building comes out, while still having plenty available for an emergency faust and/or shreck if you get up against some strong light vehicle play (e.g. bren carrier), and making sure you have flame nades available when you REALLY need them to displace a team weapon or flush out a building. Personally, I think OKW early game infantry is strong enough you shouldn't need to use the flame nades much if at all for regular engagements until you've gotten all your weapon upgrades... those are much more important in the long run.

    I pretty much ONLY use flame nades in the early game for buildings, displacing HMGs, or if I feel very sure it's going to get me a wipe. The average little skirmish over a small piece of map just isn't worth the 30 munitions imo. I find that most of the time if I feel the need to use a flame nade in one of those situations, I'm probably already at a disadvantage and I'm going to need to retreat my depleted squad regardless. Why waste the munitions? I try not to expend resources on battles if I don't get anything significant by winning. If your opponent is throwing a ton of flame nades early on, you can probably pull ahead in early midgame by focusing on light vehicles and/or weapon upgrades for your infantry squads. Vanilla volks get outscaled very quickly.

  • #12
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271

    The new flame nades are just fine IMO. You can actually dodge them now but they still have the added utility of denying cover/garrisons that flame weapons do. I think they were insanely stupid in design before, but the throw timer has really put them in their place now.

  • #13
    2 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    I would really rather sturmpios get the damn flame nade than being on every volks squad and put the flame nade on rhe urban assault upgrade instead of the standard nade (which should be made stock)

    Sturms should be your early choice for clearing garrisons. Give em a buff vs garrisoned units and grant them some more combat relivance past 5 min

    Totally agree, but on a side note panzershreks make no sense on sturms.

  • #14
    2 years ago

    @raulmagana121707 said:
    Totally agree, but on a side note panzershreks make no sense on sturms.

    I agree with the flame nade to sturms as well. It would also give a better combined arms approach for okw early on. Instead of volks spam for the win.

    I do believe that removing the shreck from volks was the right decision. But on sturm they do seem a bit weird.

    Other then volks or sturms, the obers are the only alternative. Obers are not extremely durable due to being 4 models. And are expensive enough not to be spammed easy. They also dont come at minute 0. So i would give the 1x shreck to them.

  • #15
    2 years ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    Flame nades on Sturm pioneers would require a buff to sturms since they are so fragile and terrible late game. This just changes volks blobs to Sturm blobs. Perhaps just a research cost to flame nades, not radically changing the early game for the okw is due.

  • #16
    2 years ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    Also, obers right now are dedicated anti infantry squads. Adding a panzer Shrek wouldn't make sense. Sturms are just like panzer grenaiders, close range squads that can be upgraded with at.

  • #17
    2 years ago
    WilliamzWilliamz Posts: 113

    @Baálthazor said:
    And how would they then deal with early garrisons?
    The OKW doesn't have any garrison clearance tools before the flame nade, so they kinda need it. Otherwise it would just be garrison-play galore against them every single game...

    Brits have to research nades to do decent damage to garrisons very early on. Should be the same for volks.

  • #18
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Sturms should be a bit better at anti garrison for what they are. Even as an ability
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