[All] [Automatch] - Demolition

#1
11 months ago
NapoqeNapoqe Posts: 47
edited May 2018 in Balance Feedback

Hello everyone.

How recently I had a discussion of balance to combat engineer. I come here to suggest changes in this ability.

Demolition Charge (only for Combat Engineers and Assault Engineers):

Cost: 60 munition

Engineers put Demolition Charge on the spot, their Retreat skill is deactivated until it is detonated and the squad can not stay far from the bomb until it is detonated. However, the bomb whan is activate a lot of damage, but will not wipe enemy squads with full hp. Removes the restrictions of not being able to use in conquest points, thus making possible to be risky to try to capture a territory without the detection packages.

Commandos replace your Demolition Charge Skill by Time Demolition.

Commandos already has good dps close, has camouflage and a powerful grenade.

Comments

  • #2
    11 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,576

    So in short, you want to hard nerf an ability that was nerfed out of the game and only the most stupid of players still fall for it?

  • #3
    11 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,733
    Nerfing the demo further? Jeez
  • #4
    11 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,264
    So it should cost more than it did before when you could wipe full health squads?
  • #5
    11 months ago
    NapoqeNapoqe Posts: 47
    edited May 2018

    I just think it's not good to go back to the old one because I think it was imba. So suggest this. And with discussions can better depending the skill. I rethought, I think that is expensive same the cost of munition. Demolition Charge I used at the time, I think it was connected to wires and not to radio.

  • #6
    11 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,733
    A price increase a lethality decrease and an ease of use decrease all in one is the kinda balancing relic does... It's trash now making it worse isn't going to affect its use much
  • #7
    11 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,014

    When I first read this I thought the plan was all these changes + return its original stealth. If that's not the plan though then you could literally make demos do 2400 damage and they'd still be useless because you'd need to be in a coma to walk over one

  • #8
    11 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    I don't understand the crying. Build them behind houses and walls.
  • #9
    11 months ago
    Sander93Sander93 Posts: 45

    I actually like the idea of demos no longer killing entire squads but doing severe HP damage instead. Price and mechanics could be reverted back to one of the Original states to increase utility. This way it would be an area denial tool to force retreats instead of being a cheesy instawipe ability.

  • #10
    11 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,576

    @Sander93 said:
    I actually like the idea of demos no longer killing entire squads but doing severe HP damage instead. Price and mechanics could be reverted back to one of the Original states to increase utility. This way it would be an area denial tool to force retreats instead of being a cheesy instawipe ability.

    Something like this exists in game already and is called a regular mine, which is much cheaper as well.

  • #11
    11 months ago
    Sander93Sander93 Posts: 45

    Meh mines usually only kill one or two models and barely do any health damage beyond that. Demos could be the more expensive variant that deals like 80-90% damage, but no cheesy full squad wipes. They could be the teller mines of anti-infantry devices.

    (and imo teller mines should deal like 90% damage to light vehicles instead of oneshotting them)

  • #12
    11 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,733

    @Katitof said:

    @Sander93 said:
    I actually like the idea of demos no longer killing entire squads but doing severe HP damage instead. Price and mechanics could be reverted back to one of the Original states to increase utility. This way it would be an area denial tool to force retreats instead of being a cheesy instawipe ability.

    Something like this exists in game already and is called a regular mine, which is much cheaper as well.

    capping model deaths would have been preferable over the current version. demo was a great way to punish blobs, now its just inferior to the satchel in demolition and as has been said even hellen keller could counter them.

    they could get the brumbar treatment where they deal damage in a large area but limited OHK radius
    they could have put somethought into the change instead of stripping it from the game and leaving CE the worst unit in the game without any redeeming factors nor unique traits what so ever

    if they are going to be absolute trash they should at least excel at i dont know demolition? 800 damage vs buildings vs the 640 of a satchel (which is cheaper, on a squad thats more durable and can fight, unlike CE who arnt a threat to even weapon teams) long deploy animation, cant be cast ON buildings, you have to settle for beside meaning sometimes they dont damage the whole building.

    the only thing they can do thats kinda neat is they create green cover when they boom, but other units can build that juicy cover for no munitions cost instead of 65

  • #13
    11 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited May 2018
    @thedarkarmadillo You know CE are better as you say. They are completely fine for their price. In comparison with Ost Pios even more or less op.
  • #14
    11 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,576

    @Widerstreit said:
    @thedarkarmadillo You know CE are better as you say. They are completely fine for their price. In comparison with Ost Pios even more or less op.

    ullumulu, is that you?

  • #15
    11 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,733
    > @Widerstreit said:
    > @thedarkarmadillo You know CE are better as you say. They are completely fine for their price. In comparison with Ost Pios even more or less op.

    Eh? CE suck even for their price. There is no unit they can fight except pios at max range and even that's will take years. It's a 4 man squad in a faction of 6 man squads but their price point puts them per man more valuable than cons. They have a target size of 1 and no RA buffs (making them ineffective at any combat) their repairs are average at most. They don't have sight buffs like pios they can't build anything but bases and wire... They can't get at nor bars or brens. There is 0 redeeming factors when considering combat engies so no they are not completely fine.
  • #16
    11 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 264
    edited May 2018

    Soviet Combat Engineer: 170Mp
    1. Build tech
    2. Build razor wire, crushed by cheap Kubel
    3. Get flame thrower
    4. Get mine detector, lose 25% fire power
    5. Do mediocre fight
    6. Do mediocre repair
    7. Lay TM35 mine, 30ammo, kills 1 model
    8. Lay Demolition, need 2-3 to destroy a building ~150ammo
    9. Lay trip flare
    10. Doctrine build tank trap
    11. Doctrine lay PMD6 person mine
    12. Doctrine lay PMD6 AT mine
    13. Doctrine do scavenge


    Wehrmacht Pioneer: 200Mp
    3. Build tech
    4. Build mg bunker
    5. Build healing bunker
    6. Build reinforcement bunker
    7. Build trench
    8. Build sandbag
    9. Build razor wire, crushed by Carrier
    10. Get flame thrower
    11. Get mine detector, lose 25% fire power
    12. Do okay fight at close range
    13. Do mediocre repair
    14. Do healing
    15. Lay Teller mine, 50ammo, kills 1 light tank
    16. Lay S mine field, 60ammo, kills multiple models, take years to defuse
    17. Doctrine build Pak 43 AT gun
    18. Doctrine build tank trap
    19. Doctrine hull down tank


    USF Rear Echolon: 200Mp
    3. Build defense position, gain grenade rifle
    4. Build tank trap
    5. Build razor wire, crushed by cheap Kubel
    6. Get Bars
    7. Get Bazookas
    8. Get M19 light mg
    9. Get mine detector, lose 20% fire power
    10. Do good fight at medium range
    11. Do okay repair
    12. Do volley fire
    13. Do smoke
    14. Lay M7 mine, need 3 to stun a tank
    15. Gain 1 model at vet 3
    16. Doctrine get flame thrower


    British Royal Engineer: 210Mp
    3. Build Forward assembly
    4. Build Bofor
    5. Build 17 Powder AT gun
    6. Build Mortar
    7. Build razor wire, crushed by cheap Kubel
    8. Get Brens
    9. Get PIATs
    10. Get mine detector, lose 20% fire power
    11. Do good fight at close range
    12. Do good repair
    13. Do destroy cover
    14. Do emergency war speed
    15. Do heavy engineering
    16. Lay M6 mine, kill a model
    17. Gain 1 model when tech
    18. Doctrine get flame thrower


    OKW Sturm Pioneer: 300Mp
    4. Build reinforcement razor wire, light vehicle cant crush
    5. Build trench
    6. Get panzerschreck
    7. Get mine detector, lose 0% fire power
    8. Do great fight at close range
    9. Do good repair
    10. Do scavenge
    11. Do healing
    12. Lay Schu mine, 30ammo, kills 2 models
    13. Gain grenade at vet 3
    14. Doctrine build Pak 43 AT gun
    15. Doctrine build flak emplacement
    16. Doctrine build tank trap
    17. Doctrine do thorough scavenge
    18. Doctrine get flame thrower

    As a USF main player, I always drive my tanks next to Soviet low HP tanks to repair for them, cause Combat engineers will repair their tanks forever.
    OKW can have 2 sturm pioneers to repair & fight, Soviet get 4 CE just to repair at late game is waste of popcap

  • #17
    11 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited May 2018
    @C3Tooth Ostheer Pio is also a waist of popcap, because of terrible repair time and bad weapon stats, but thats the situation. CE are cheaper, more effective with flamer because their guns stay in effective range. They can easy kill 1-2 models of Grenadiers or Sturmpio before they have to retreat. They can always give support fire, because of their range, e. g. Pioneers have to go into close combat to have any effect = fuck. With flamer they eat hole squads with some luck. Or in other words, they are ok as they are now.
  • #18
    10 months ago
    NapoqeNapoqe Posts: 47
    edited May 2018

    After an X starting time, the Axis will have to worry about this ability, because if it will not lose many military. And this bomb at a point of conquest, makes the enemy have to use an explosive skill or attack ground. Without doctrine I think the Wehrmacht will have to spend at least 40 munition to destroy one of that bomb with a skill, because if pioneers try to disable it the adversary player can detonate it and kill a lot of them.

  • #19
    10 months ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    @Napoqe said:
    Without doctrine I think the Wehrmacht will have to spend at least 40 munition to destroy one of that bomb with a skill, because if pioneers try to disable it the adversary player can detonate it and kill a lot of them.

    You do know you can target demos with normal gunfire once they've been spotted?

  • #20
    10 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,733
    > @_Aqua_ said:
    > @Napoqe said:
    > Without doctrine I think the Wehrmacht will have to spend at least 40 munition to destroy one of that bomb with a skill, because if pioneers try to disable it the adversary player can detonate it and kill a lot of them.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You do know you can target demos with normal gunfire once they've been spotted?

    And spotting is about as easy as it gets...
  • #21
    10 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 264
    edited May 2018

    Demolition, 90ammo destroys a squad. Axis complains
    Teller mine, 50ammo destroys a light tank. Allies doesnt complain

    Demolition, 90ammo, use a grenade to destroy as a counter. Axis complains
    S field mine, 60ammo, use 4 grenades to destroy the field. Allies doesnt complain

    Demolition is the only thing nerfed
    To me, Demolition was a gift Relic gave to Soviet, for that I never complain on Teller mine, but since December 2017 patch, now I do.

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