[OKW] [Any] Raketenwerfer Camo

#1
10 months ago
WilliamzWilliamz Posts: 113
edited August 2018 in Balance Feedback

A lot of the gameplay balance decisions that get changed are usually because something isn't doing what it was intended.

So why is the Raketenwerfer being used so much to cap flags and being used a recon tool outside of enemy bases? Raketenwerfer Camoflauge is clearly been exploited to its full now days.

I think it's time to see that camouflage go on the raketenwerfer, it's not being used as intended.

«1

Comments

  • #2
    10 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235
    At the very beginning its broken anyway. Plus it has the ability to retreat really fast.
  • #3
    10 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,790
    Maybe the Rak needs a guaranteed death loop when retreating like the Maxim has as "a balancing feature for increased survivability other at guns don't have" despite its abysmal performance when held up against the others
  • #4
    10 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 237

    Not only that, they sprint around in camo with regualr speed as well instead of like the zis canon in camo that crawl like it was intend to do in camoflauge. Also it cost only 270mp and can enter buildings, got ridiculous vet bonus, almost never missing target like other at guns do. Just a hug designflaw it cost 270mp and still dosent got it fixed. So much to fix with this unit it needs an own thread to count them all up..

  • #5
    10 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited August 2018
    @thedarkarmadillo I really don't like that idea to be honest. The maxim death loop should be gone, we shouldn't add it to another unit.

    The camo just needs to go. Simple as that. Change whatever you have to do about the rest of the stats, the camo has to go or AT LEAST function like infantry camo with the cover requirement. It's the entire problem. It's way too hands free of a mechanic, when AT guns are some of the most manual units in the game.
  • #6
    10 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 237

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    The camo just needs to go. Simple as that. Change whatever you have to do about the rest of the stats, the camo has to go or AT LEAST function like infantry camo with the cover requirement. It's the entire problem. It's way too hands free of a mechanic, when AT guns are some of the most manual units in the game.

    Agree. The soviets camo is at least doctrined and they move very slow with it, almost to none excistent, and can be detected way earlyer than the raketen.

  • #7
    10 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    I really would be statisfied with infantry style camo for it. I'd prefer it to be a normal AT gun, but I could settle for that at this point.

    What pissess me off so much is going in for a flank, only to have two Raks suddenly appear out of nowhere in the middle of a field even though I had vision there. The other at guns are definitely better against a wider variety of tanks, but it takes a lot more effort to position them than the Rak.
  • #8
    10 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,790
    @SkysTheLimit no worries, I was being sarcastic about the death loop citing people who say it's there to balance the maxims large crew
  • #9
    10 months ago

    It's the single most broken mechanic in the game. Easy fix is to either knock them down to a 3 man crew or restrict camo to veterancy.

  • #10
    9 months ago
    ArgensaArgensa Posts: 14

    Indeed that thing is the most broken thing in the game lol. It can be invisible, but it should not be moving while being invisible. At least let it stop invi while moving but then get invi again.
    They completely shut down ANY light vehicles Allied can get (2 shots 1 kill anyone) which allows for Volks stg and flak halftrack or Luchs to win the day. What does this mean?

    Against USF: The US player HAS to get the captain since they cannot rely on any of their vehicles to counter vehicles (Stuart vs Luchs, Sherman vs Pz4) although that somehow when you look at it the Stuart and AEC are kind of like made to counter Luchs since their AI is terrible. Not the T70 though that thing is goooood.

    Against Soviet: Once again the Soviet HAS to go Tier 2 to get AT making Tier 1 play kinda obsolete (or you upgrade your Penal with PTRS and always lose your infantry battle. And even PTRS Penal would only be able to drive the Luchs away, never killing the thing). Once again, T70 not available due to easy snipe.

    Against UKF: No AEC due to Rak.

  • #11
    9 months ago
    Schoki_JaegerSchoki_Ja… Posts: 24
    edited September 2018

    In my opinion the raketenwerfer should just get the camo removed or in my eyes even better, get a lock down when camo is activated so that the Raketen can´t move or rotate at all and maybe in addition to that get the garision bonus removed as well !

  • #12
    9 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @Schoki_Jaeger said:
    In my opinion the raketenwerfer should just get the camo removed or in my eyes even better get a lock down when camo is activated so that the Raketen can´t move or rotate at all an maybe in addition to that get the garision bonus removed as well !

    This is a good choice to be honest.

    While sniper camo is not op coz it needs cover to gain it anyway.
    RAKETENWERFER just take it to a new whole level.
    I think is should be fixed.

  • #13
    9 months ago
    ValkyrieValkyrie Posts: 2,132

    I'd trade stealth on the raketten for some survivability. It would just play better then - No cheesy sneak up, barrage and run away which has few proper counters, and it would do better in a stand up fight, which is something it desperately needs.

  • #14
    8 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235
    edited September 2018

    I played a game today. Its really annoying when they get 4 rakten just pop up out of no where and retreat like nothing happens. they can scout, camo on the move and ambush tanks. Tanks dont accelerate fast even when the guy got 2 of them it rekts my tank without skill.

    After the game i stop playing. Its not like starcraft we can get Observers to detect stealth units.
    Getting tired of it tbh.

    Just remove the retreat on it. so atleast we can kill those sneaky AT gun.
    This is beyond broken.
    Its game breaking.

  • #15
    8 months ago
    Removing retreat isn't necessary but removing creeping death and improving accuracy (just make it like +50% ACCURACY out of camo?) is necessary for both parties and the health of the game.
  • #16
    8 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,592

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Removing retreat isn't necessary but removing creeping death and improving accuracy (just make it like +50% ACCURACY out of camo?) is necessary for both parties and the health of the game.

    That kind of accuracy would make it 100% hit chance on all vehicles in game.

    Its current accuracy is the same as ZiS-3.

  • #17
    8 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721
    edited September 2018

    Actually Zis is more accurate at the same range since the accuracy values apply to longer distances.

    In addition normal ATG seems to have better chances to hit via collision even if they miss.

  • #18
    8 months ago
    > @Katitof said:
    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > Removing retreat isn't necessary but removing creeping death and improving accuracy (just make it like +50% ACCURACY out of camo?) is necessary for both parties and the health of the game.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That kind of accuracy would make it 100% hit chance on all vehicles in game.
    >
    > Its current accuracy is the same as ZiS-3.

    Out of camo that would be a non issue if it can't creep given the drawbacks of the short range and very unzips like 4 man crew and lack of self defense barrage.
    It's CLEARLY supposed to be an ambush style AT gun and that all goes to hell when it decides to shoot the ground instead of the enemy tank. Not missing the first shot in a predetermined location is a HELL of a lot less cheesy than creeping around scouting and capping.
  • #19
    8 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    Well all of us agree that it needs some fixing but the thing is we have different views how to fix it.

    I agree with the removing movement when camo. That will fix it from scouting and capping.

  • #20
    8 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    If the unit receives buffs of any kind, camo has to be gone. Not standstill, not cover based, GONE. It's the cheapest and AT gun in the game (tied with 57mm, but the 57 is locked behind a 60 fuel tier) and OKW has no shortage of AT options.

    There is no reason for this unit to be improved in any way, unless the camo is removed. It is a glaringly stupid function, and I cannot believe it isn't being addressed in the coming patch.
  • #21
    8 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    If the unit receives buffs of any kind, camo has to be gone. Not standstill, not cover based, GONE. It's the cheapest and AT gun in the game (tied with 57mm, but the 57 is locked behind a 60 fuel tier) and OKW has no shortage of AT options.

    There is no reason for this unit to be improved in any way, unless the camo is removed. It is a glaringly stupid function, and I cannot believe it isn't being addressed in the coming patch.

    Sadly we don't have any information if they acknowledge this problem. I hope they will.

  • #22
    8 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 237

    OKW already has maphack unit for scouting so dont need another sniper-stealth unit included in the at gun for scouting

  • #23
    8 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @mrdjjag81 said:
    OKW already has maphack unit for scouting so dont need another sniper-stealth unit included in the at gun for scouting

    Well thats the thing. They got a cheap MAP hack which is legal in the game. Then they got raketen a invisible scout that kills tanks.

  • #24
    5 months ago
    vampvenomvampvenom GermanyPosts: 30

    I'm gonna do what I always do best which is desagree with all, the Rek is the weakest support unite in the game, they deserve both the retreat and camo however I don't see anything wrong with making it not being able to move in camo

  • #25
    5 months ago

    @vampvenom these guys obviously never had a rek miss shots repeatedly rather than murder light armor..... because they all play OKW as well right?

  • #26
    5 months ago
    > @Dabadman331 said:
    > @vampvenom these guys obviously never had a rek miss shots repeatedly rather than murder light armor..... because they all play OKW as well right?

    Are you complaining that your Rak misses light armor? Are you ****ing kidding me? That's a serious case of learn to play dude
  • #27
    5 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,017
    > @SkysTheLimit said:
    > > @Dabadman331 said:
    > > @vampvenom these guys obviously never had a rek miss shots repeatedly rather than murder light armor..... because they all play OKW as well right?
    >
    > Are you complaining that your Rak misses light armor? Are you ****ing kidding me? That's a serious case of learn to play dude

    It's an RNG roll that the Rak loves to fail to make. There's not much you can do to l2p that away (except make a rak gun line and creep it forward)
  • #28
    5 months ago
    > @Lazarus said:
    > It's an RNG roll that the Rak loves to fail to make. There's not much you can do to l2p that away (except make a rak gun line and creep it forward)

    The l2p is about expecting your AT gun to hit LIGHT armor reliably, not in-game micro. The Rak has the same accuracy as ZiS, Pak, and 57mm. 6lber gets the light vehicle bonus so it's only the Brits who have it better.
  • #29
    5 months ago

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    > @Lazarus said:
    > It's an RNG roll that the Rak loves to fail to make. There's not much you can do to l2p that away (except make a rak gun line and creep it forward)

    The l2p is about expecting your AT gun to hit LIGHT armor reliably, not in-game micro. The Rak has the same accuracy as ZiS, Pak, and 57mm. 6lber gets the light vehicle bonus so it's only the Brits who have it better.

    Wait, are you sure? I though they have same accuracy at max range. So Pak gun should be more accurate than Raketen at 50 range.

  • #30
    5 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 338

    Rak camo was acceptable back then, because it didnt have MGs to support it from behind. The only protection it had from enemy infantry were Sturm, FlakHT

    Rak's speed work well in OKW, since that faction always force enemy to bring out Light vehicle/tank. Not that Rak fail to pen Allied Medium anyway. Rak is only useless if Allied captured a Tiger or King.

  • #31
    5 months ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 417
    edited December 2018

    Imo camo is fine, it's just retreat witch is really silly and a bit unfair as it
    allows the rak to be unpunished where any other AT gun would be decrewed.
    The out in the wild on their own unsupported double raken thing is not something you see with camo zis/m2.

    Maybe they could limit the asymetric to cosmetic only, give pak stats and let it be a reskin pak 40

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