[OKW] [all gamemodes] Volks overpreforming.

2

Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    If VG lose their STG they should have the vet bonuses looked at since currently their combat bonuses bonus are not that great.

  • #33
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Vipper said:
    If VG lose their STG they should have the vet bonuses looked at since currently their combat bonuses bonus are not that great.

    If they were to lose STGs permanently(aka no non doctrinal weapon upgrade), then sure, I don't see why not to give them vet treatment adjusted for their intended role and fighting distance.

    That's exactly why cons have some of the strongest bonuses to rec acc and acc in game.

  • #34
    2 years ago
    ArgensaArgensa Posts: 14

    I think that Volks can be tolerable. Maybe increase the Assault Rifles cost by a bit or making them having to unlock it through upgrades, or maybe nerfing the rifle a bit but not the Volks themselves.
    The problem lies with the inability to support infantry of Allied players. You can't get T70, AA half-track, M3, M5, Brits carrier, Stuarts or any light vehicle against OKW because of double raketenwerfer invi strat.
    I mean Rak can be invisible, that is alright, but they should not be roaming the map sniping light vehicles while invisible. That is just imbalance and has absolutely NO logic behind it. CoH2 - SC2 crossover? RaketenBanshee?

  • #35
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824

    @SkysTheLimit i wouldnt be opposed to keeping the upgrade as is. smgs are kinda niche so having a little something somethin certainly wouldnt hurt. as was said, having the smoke on a long cooldown could prevent misuse, however i could see the combo of smoke and other grenade abilities beign a problem (infiltration nades for example) but on the flip it would be nice to see something resembling tactics from an okw build instead of just focus fire...

  • #36
    2 years ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @WunderKatze said:
    Volks desperately need a rework. The whole OKW faction is clutched on them so hard. They are simply way too cheap for a squad that scales as well as they do.

    Early game they can be overcome with cover and tactics but every quickly afterward, the cheap reinforce and vet allows OKW pull so far ahead economically.

    They are sooo bad for this game in so many ways in their current implementation. They cause a lot of popular mind numbing spam tactics, their incendiary grenades basically make the earth flat (e.i. they completely ruin the garrison/cover gameplay), they allow for easy map control and they ruin the late war german theme of the faction.

    It would be ideal if volks were scaled back so that OKW became more about fodder units supporting extremely expensive elite units instead of just mass human wave tactics with spam infantry.

    Now I know how these forums work, that we are the kind of 'nuanced' community that nerfs the pak howitzer and sees the 'bright side' of the churchill and whatever, and I agree that maybe sledge hammering Volks might break OKW, but seriously, the more and more I try to get back into this game the more and more I realize how much of a glaring issue this is.

    For starters I might tone back their veterancy way, way back to encourage transitioning to more expensive infantry later game. Or I might try increasing their reinforce cost (and/or their cost) and compensate as needed to make up the difference.

    Move the incendiary to Sturms to encourage diverse builds (kind of like smoke on REs).

    There are lots more things that could work. But right now Volks are killing this game.

    volks at high level can combat rangers with thompsons +1xbar

  • #37
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @omar_emp said:
    volks at high level can combat rangers with thompsons +1xbar

    test that 10 times in close to mid range and lets as know the result of that fight.

  • #38
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Yea like volks are strong but you're doing the discussion no service by lying about beating what might be the strongest infantry there is...
  • #39
    2 years ago
    Just make the STG upgrade cost more. Its so affordable now that you literally have no reason to pass on it. OKW players with almost no control of a map's ammo points are usually able to standardize it among their Volk squads before mid-game is up and this has NEVER made sense. Bump Volks up to a 270mp squad to more accurately reflect the investment of their veterancy.
  • #40
    2 years ago
    ArgensaArgensa Posts: 14

    Idk but why is the Stg44 can be gotten earlier than M1919, more powerful AND cheaper than it? The M1919 is a doctrinal gun and shouldn't it perform like a doctrinal gun? I know that in realy history the Stg44 and the MG42 LMG are good as hell but if the M1919 is doctrinal, maybe you should once again be able to get 2 of it (and nerf each one a bit) or reduce the cost of that thing or reduce the number of "stars" you need to get it?
    Same with Soviet Guard DP.

  • #41
    2 years ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @Vipper said:

    @omar_emp said:
    volks at high level can combat rangers with thompsons +1xbar

    test that 10 times in close to mid range and lets as know the result of that fight.

    as rangers moving closer to volks the volks just keep killing the rangers

  • #42
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    > @omar_emp said:
    > as rangers moving closer to volks the volks just keep killing the rangers

    Are these rangers outnumbered? 1 on 1, tommy rangers will have no problem against volks. They are literally the last squad anyone should be complaining about the volks matchup with.
  • #43
    2 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235
    edited September 2018

    The way i see it Volksgren is just to CHEAP to Buy, Reinforce and Upgrade that is why its overpowered. Economy wise you don't loose too much versus its allies counterpart.
    I think we don't touch the performance of Volksgren but INCREASE its Price to Match its counter part.

    Or just remove STG44 Package so they work like Conscript Cheap and Versatile.

    Comparison

    VolksGren
    5 man squad
    250 MP
    5 maxed vet
    Reinforcement cost 25MP
    Population 7

    Free grenade upgrade
    Free STG upgrade
    2 Stg44 cannot be dropped
    upgrade cost 60Muni


    Rifleman
    5 Man squad
    280MP
    3 Maxed vet
    Reinforcement cost 28MP
    Population 7

    Need grenade upgrade
    Need weapon upgrade
    singe bar/double bar can be stolen
    60muni /120muni


    Conscript
    6 man squad
    240MP
    3 Max vet
    Reinforcement cost 20MP
    Population 7

    Molotov upgrade
    Grenade upgrade


    Infantry Section
    4 Man squad
    280 MP
    Max vet 3
    Reinforcement cost
    Population 7

    Weapon upgrade can be dropped
    Grenade upgrade
    bolster squad upgrade

  • #44
    2 years ago
    KurfürstKurfürst Posts: 289
    edited September 2018

    Volks are fine. Poor Veterancy, very poor DPS to start with (basically they are more expensive Cons minus one model), their Stg upgrade is the only thing that makes competitive and worthwhile to build.

    They are not great as a unit either, just cost effective, which they should be. Every other OKW infantry option is hideously expesnive, and squishy.

  • #45
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    Volks get passive healing. That's insanely good vet. They're fine early to mid but they're too good late game. You can tell by how little people rely on infantry other than Volks.

  • #46
    2 years ago

    Allegadly relying little on other infantry may be simply a results of the insane amount of anti-infantry firepower Allied infantry carries, backed by the insane amount of indirect firepower available to them.

    In short, if you will have squad wipes and allied infantry bleeding left and right all the time, its better to loose Volks than Obers or Sturmpios.

  • #47
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Kurfürst said:
    Volks are fine. Poor Veterancy, very poor DPS to start with (basically they are more expensive Cons minus one model), their Stg upgrade is the only thing that makes competitive and worthwhile to build.

    They are not great as a unit either, just cost effective, which they should be. Every other OKW infantry option is hideously expesnive, and squishy.

    They have DPS equal to grens and grens are hardly "poor DPS".
    Every other OKW infantry option is NOT supposed to replace them, but work with them, excepy pfussies, who are replacements.

  • #48
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited September 2018
    > @Kurfürst said:
    > Volks are fine. Poor Veterancy

    Do you main OKW? Honestly don't comprehend how anyone who plays this game can hold that position. Volks are the most obviously broken thing this game has had since, well, volks (w/ shrecks). Excluding broken things that weren't intended of course.

    They get a RA bonus at Vet 1, passive healing, etc. What on Earth are you talking about? Just because the bonuses are no longer at the absolutely absurd level they once were, does not make the veterancy "poor".
  • #49
    2 years ago

    Have you ever played OKW btw? Volks are absolutely not great. They are a cost efficient meat shield at best, like Cons. You have no idea what you are talking.

  • #50
    2 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @Kurfürst said:
    Have you ever played OKW btw? Volks are absolutely not great. They are a cost efficient meat shield at best, like Cons. You have no idea what you are talking.

    Nope. Cons are meat shield they don,t deal much damage unlike Volkz STG.

    Volkz are equal to Riflemen with double BAR.

  • #51
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Xloss said:
    Volkz are equal to Riflemen with double BAR.

    I suggest you test that theory 10 times in cheat mode and come back with the results.

  • #52
    2 years ago
    > @Kurfürst said:
    > Have you ever played OKW btw? Volks are absolutely not great. They are a cost efficient meat shield at best, like Cons. You have no idea what you are talking.

    Have you ever played anything but OKW btw? Volks are easily the most cost efficient infantry in the game. They are nothing like conscripts whatsoever, that is a s**t analogy. Cons don't even have a weapon upgrade. Stgs are what make volks OP.

    I have no idea what I'm talking about? Well it's not just my idea, it's everyone's. You must be living under a rock not to hear anyone talk about Volks...
  • #53
    2 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @Vipper said:

    @Xloss said:
    Volkz are equal to Riflemen with double BAR.

    I suggest you test that theory 10 times in cheat mode and come back with the results.

    So your telling me Volkz are equal to Riflemen with SINGLE BAR

  • #54
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Xloss said:
    So your telling me Volkz are equal to Riflemen with SINGLE BAR

    No I am simply telling you can test things in game before making claims that are simply false. There is a cheat mode exactly for that reason.

  • #55
    2 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    @Vipper said:

    @Xloss said:
    So your telling me Volkz are equal to Riflemen with SINGLE BAR

    No I am simply telling you can test things in game before making claims that are simply false. There is a cheat mode exactly for that reason.

    I did it all the time in cheat mode. volkz can 1v1 rifle especially at
    no vet
    max vet vs max vet even at vet 3 volkz
    In cover with or without weapons

    WhileCosting less at everything.
    Volkz dont need vet for Faust
    Volkz dont need upgrade to get STG
    Volkz dont need upgrade to get Grenade
    STG cost less

    Its no brainer that Volkz is the best mainline infantry COST for COST.
    Even Conscripts Vet Rearrangement won't beat that.

  • #56
    2 years ago
    mrpeedmrpeed Posts: 46
    edited September 2018

    Perhaps remove the stg upgrade, make volks a six man squad, and reduce their cost? I always imaged volks as a more defensive unit anyway. So you would be able to flood the field with them and hold the line to wait for obers and light vehicles. This is not to say that allied infantry is not over performing.

    Though historically the volksgrenadiers were well trained and often had assault rifles.

  • #57
    2 years ago

    I always thought a G43 upgrade would make more sense than an StG upgrade. Assault Pioneers already bring assault rifles to the field.

  • #58
    2 years ago
    Get rid of stgs, make volks fight better without wpn upgrade. Punching above their weight atm
  • #59
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @SimpleSimon said:
    I always thought a G43 upgrade would make more sense than an StG upgrade. Assault Pioneers already bring assault rifles to the field.

    And what would be the point to even have panzerfussiliers in game anymore if volks were just stock copy of them?

  • #60
    2 years ago

    Panzerfussiliers had a point?

  • #61
    2 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    Just remove STG and Rearrange vet.

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