Nerf Ranger Commander
#1
1 year ago
SquishyMu…
Posts: 434
It is far too strong compared to any other commander.
Constant green cover sandbags and mines - check
Magic smoke from the sky, negating mg's - check
OP Rangers with mid range thompsons - check
Ability no one uses but is really strong if you remember - check
OP pershing whose anti infantry is just far too much, even on retreat - check
Comments
OKW with no commander
Volk have greencover sandbags & Stg44 + grenade with no Fuel non doc - check
Magic Walking stuka from the sky negating a whole defensive position - check
OP Ober with long range LMG - check
Light tanks that no one used because only Volks to victory - check
OP King which non doc - check
Quit OST and play OKW, thing will be solved
King Tiger OP? Rofl ok nice joke
If having non-doc Panther 960hp or non-doc King 1240hp cant find a way to fight a single commander unit Pershing 800hp. Im sorry.
You don't play 1v1's do you?
Elefant and Jagtiger, to an extent KT, are not used in 1v1's because they aren't worth it - yet they all got nerfed to facilitate team games. In 1v1's, the Pershing is too strong. And I see no reason why is shouldn't be nerfed if team balance dictates all balance it should work vice versa. It's veterancy can be a start.
But most of all, I'd actually prefer all call ins to be in tech.
I have a team of 2v2 with a Soviet.
Pershing can pen,damage like a Jackson with blast like Sherman, its armor may be equal to Panther and HP of T34-85. Pershing has low hp as its weakness, Jadtig/Ele/Pak43 just shoot only once and Pershing will have to retreat because it lost 2/5 hp.
Beside, some commanders are designed to play small battles, some are to play big battles. Currently OKW Fortification is too Op in big battles.
As now, USF is** the only faction** with worst teching, while OST/Brit all access to MG,ATgun, mortar. Soviet back tech is really cheap. OKW back tech rewarded with King. USF has to pick between MG & ATgun make it defenseless either mass infantry or light tanks. USF needs work.
Have you ever played OKW?
Volks lack AT ability. Faust is only useful against noobs, because even universal carrier's flame thrower has longer range than Faust, every experience player could kiting Volks.
Stuka works better than other rocket launchers against team weapons, but worse against UKF fortifications. It requires more skills to utilize Stuka than other rocket launchers, you need to predict enemy's retreat path.
Obers are good but not invincible. You can wipe than with rangers, smg paratroops, shocks and even ppsh conscript at close range. And they are no match to lmg paratroops and dp guards at long range.
No one use Luchs? I think your rank is not high enough.
King tiger is liability in most cases, I only use it if I lost my Panzer HQ for some reason.
Volk lack AT ability, tell that to InfantrySec. Volk has the highest utility, Cons was the only core infantry can build sandbag for they're too weak, no gun upgrade, later Volk gained sandbag since 2016 due to lack of AI gun upgrade(as they can only up 1 Panzerschrek & flame nade before), then they gain Stg44 + faust with zero Fuel/Manpower required, and sandbag for Volk is still there make them outclass both RM & Cons.
Lack AT ability? Sturm have Panzerschrek, double camo ATgun strategy. British doesnt have snare to slowdown tanks, Soviet doesnt have Bazooka/Panzerschrek. USF sure have everything, but go for Captain and will be dominated with Volks.
With currently Volk's whole upgrade. Light tanks arent required in build since Volk can handle everything.
And you're comparing Obers nondoc with every Allied doc close range infantry.
Let me tell the time line as a USF vs OKW
1min: Rear, RM vs Sturm,Volk
3min: Rear, RM, RM, Mortar vs Sturm, Volk, Volk, Volk
5min: Rear, RM Bar, RM Bar, Mortar, Lieu or Cap vs Sturm, Volk stg44, Volk stg44, Volk, Lunch or FlakHT and another Volk (because USF has to pay 40 fuel/400mp to upgrade)
Let me point out another fuel resource
If Allied upgrade their weapon/grenade, their 1st Sherman,T34,Cromwell comes later than Axis's 1st Panzer.
Here are some images of Volks to victory
Think about without MG34, stg44 with sandbag like OKW was 1st designed, Sturm was the only squad for AI, a Light tanks in mid game is a must for OKW. Not anymore today.
For Cons, they are cheaper. For RM, try get closer.
I am talking about Volk itself not the whole faction.
Have you faced mg spam, penal spam or rm spam before?
Obers comes later than Allied elite infantry. If you can't gain 3 command points before OKW's Panzer HQ, there is something wrong with your play style.
There are two problems here:
First, it is impossible to build Luchs or FlakHT in 5 mins. Could you please at least play a few rounds of OKW before comment?
Second, your build order is terribly wrong. OKW has no mg at T0, why do you build motor? The correct order should be Rear->RM->RM->RM->Lieu->Bazooka for Rear or .50 (depend on how many volk your enemy had already built).
It's Ost's Panzer, man... Aren't we talking about OKW here?
Some advises here:
Frist, try to play 1V1 to improve your skills.
Second, enable team color in settings.
Third, build Sherman instead of Jackson if you can't handle enemy infantry.
I don't know why this is still in balance forum.
But i think its not the commander is your problem.
OKW need non-doc NUKE that can be use in base.
Using 30 munition that will wipe out all units and buildings.
It would make sense to counter RANGER COMMANDER.
Lol. Maybe give Volk 5*STG upgrade?
@addvaluejack
This is the math
OKW: SupplyHT 15fuel + BattleHQ 25fuel + SupplyHT 15fuel + PanzerHQ 120fuel + Panzer4 140fuel = 315fuel
OST: Tier1 10fuel + Phase1 40fuel + Tier2 20fuel + Phase2 90fuel + Tier3 15fuel + Panzer4 120fuel = 295fuel
USF: Lieu 50fuel + Weaponrack 15fuel + Grenade 25fuel + Major 120fuel + Sherman 110fuel = 320fuel
Soviet: Tier1 10fuel + Grenades 35fuel + Tier3 90fuel + Tier4 90fuel + T34 90fuel = 315fuel
Riflemen get a LMG1919 for 70ammo
Conscript get 3 Ppsh for 60ammo
Volks get 5 submachingun and 2 various of grenades upgrade in Fuersturm doc, for the cost of 45ammo, amazing right?
Oh, man you forgot to include the starting resource. OKW starts with 340 manpower and 5 fuel while USF starts with 400 manpower and 15 fuel.
You think MP-40 is good? Try that by yourself.
Also also, the USF doesn't HAVE to tech for grenades and they can build caches while OKW can't.
I think in terms of adjustments this commander will be a lot more balanced if there's a small delay on the smoke call in and if they finally remove the 0.9 damage modlifier Rangers have
> Whatever your beef with OKW this isn't the thread for it. Keep it about the Ranger commander.
>
> I think in terms of adjustments this commander will be a lot more balanced if there's a small delay on the smoke call in and if they finally remove the 0.9 damage modlifier Rangers have
Wait. Rangers have a DAMAGE modifier? Like the ones that used to exist but were patched out because it fuvks with balance? What the fuck relic....
They don't, just 0.8 rec acc.
> They don't, just 0.8 rec acc.
OK good.
The sad thing is I wouldn't put it past em for such a Shiney new commander...
> > @Lazarus said:
> > Whatever your beef with OKW this isn't the thread for it. Keep it about the Ranger commander.
> >
> > I think in terms of adjustments this commander will be a lot more balanced if there's a small delay on the smoke call in and if they finally remove the 0.9 damage modlifier Rangers have
>
> Wait. Rangers have a DAMAGE modifier? Like the ones that used to exist but were patched out because it fuvks with balance? What the fuck relic....
They certainly do.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/82783/the-dilemma-with-paratroopers
Post #4, confirmed by Jae for Jett in the same thread.
To clarify - rangers get 0.8 rec acc and 0.9 rec damage. Unless they've been nerfed between Spetember and now.
Edit: Confirmed it's still the case. Go ahead and throw a frag grenade at a Ranger squad. Even if they're popping a squat right on top of it, you won't drop a single model.
It's one of the things that made them so easy to blob back at release, because even on negative cover/over grenades you weren't fully punished.
I tested in cheat mode and I can confirm that Rangers have around 10% damage reduction.
3 Bar RM + 1 Lieutenant charging under the cover of smoke is too difficult to counter. Delay the call-in smoke is a reasonable adjustment.
Does damage reduction equal armor? I know Shock Troops have armor, but that only affects small arms I think. I can't remember how much armor they have though, or how much damage it makes them take.
> Does damage reduction equal armor? I know Shock Troops have armor, but that only affects small arms I think. I can't remember how much armor they have though, or how much damage it makes them take.
Armour is a chance to not receive damage from small arms, it's a dice roll on top of getting hit (might get hit but not pen the armour) they take full damage when it pens. Think like tanks but smaller scale.
> Does damage reduction equal armor? I know Shock Troops have armor, but that only affects small arms I think. I can't remember how much armor they have though, or how much damage it makes them take.
I'll run through the entire damage matrix.
First there's chance to hit. This is the most basic defense vs small arms and everyone has it. It's a single dice roll that either comes up with hit (full damage) or miss. This chance can be raised or lowered by utilizing the cover mechanics (red cover makes you easier to hit, green much harder).
Then there's armor. A select few units still have it (as far as I recall only shocks and anvil sappers) because it's *very* powerful in terms of defense. It's a % chance to negate all damage recieved - as thedarkarmadillo pointed out much like tanks and their armor. This is a strong defense because it doesn't matter where you stand or what your enemies accuracy - unless they are firing LMGs at close range they generally will have an armor pen of 1 and you will *always* be able to roll the dice to save yourself.
At this point I'll note flamethrowers and explosions *do not* roll a chance to hit. If you're in the AoE you take damage regardless.
This brings us to bullshit rangers damage reduction. Damage reduction is just flat negating damage. No dice rolls, no guess work, doesn't matter if you're being shot by combat engineers or king tigers - you will negate some of the damage flat out. It's why Vipper and I confirmed it using frag grenades. Grenades do 80 damage (enough to kill a full hp model). If it was just rec acc or armor, the grenade would still work.
Because it's damage reduction, it takes the 80 damage and multiplies it by 0.9 - in this case reducing the damage to 72 - not enough to kill a model. This reduction applies to *everything*. You can do nothing to mitigate it except bring 10% more firepower then you ought to need.
Don't cite me as defending the commander. Combined arms is his "worst" ability and it can be very strong with the right timing. The smoke should be a plane with a delay identical to the Ost version, rangers should maybe be locked behind major tech in their current form.
I think exploring the transition of ALL call-in units (not just tanks) into teching would be interesting/good for the game.
The reason I find it so bizarre is we've made numerous patches to emphasise positioning between units and a RD modifier just ignores it all completely - and has been removed previously because of this.
> - keeping in mind that while they are more expensive than shocks they also have a much longer effective range + a better mix of abilities
After this patch none of that will be true IMO. Shocks will be even cheaper than now, and they will actually perform at mid-range.
What do you mean by better mix of abilities? Shocks have smoke and grenades, rangers just grenades. The shocks smoke and grenade will be on seperate cooldowns again too. They also are a CP earlier than rangers.
In full agreement that the RD modifier has no place. But they should get some more RA or something with tommy upgrade if they aren't going to made cheaper with the change.
Maybe experimenting with non durability buffs like more grenade options (cooked?) or something else
> . 8 target size is pretty strong for a 5 man squad tbh. The damage modifier in unnecessary. They have 3 slots too which is pretty huge.
I don't really disagree with any of that. Important here IMO is that I want current rangers behind major tech, and definitely without the RD modifier.
It's .8 for a 5 man CQC squad that's 400 mp and 90 muni. That seems okay to me, especially if it's tier locked. Maybe bonus RA with tommys is unnecessary. A unique vet 1 ability would be cool, rather than just grenade recharge
OP pershing? lol
he just 800hp
Use command panther and problem will be solved
Ranger? they are 400mp unit and need upgrade thompson for 90muni
u think heavy calvery company is OP?
play heavy calvary and know the truth