If you could have one new ability...

#1
10 months ago
PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346
edited February 12 in Commander Feedback

Well, I have finished my reviews of the new commander proposals. I will not be compiling any hypothetical doctrines for the OKW and the US factions because, there wasn't any real consensus with the OKW and there weren't enough proposals for the US. I had a lot of fun doing the reviews; there were lots of great ideas in all the threads. Congratulations go to those who made my lists and apologies go to those who didn't. I don't want the players who didn't make the cut to feel left out so, I'll start a new thread that I hope will be more inclusive.

The question I'll ask is this:

If you could have ONE new ability added to the game, what would it be?

Note: The question is limited to 1 new doctrinal ability (no units allowed) for 1 faction only.

This is partly to save space and time but, it's mostly to force players to really think about what they are suggesting. If you only get one, you're more likely to be careful and create something really useful. There were lots of good ideas in the new commander threads but, when you think about some of them, it appears as though they would have only a small impact on the game. They come across as someone's pet idea, which they think sounds great but which they haven't thought all the way through. I want to limit this to just one idea that will have a big impact on the way a faction plays.

Let me give you an example:

Veteran Squad Leaders for the Soviet faction

  • Combat Engineers get an extra man
  • Conscripts swap one model for a Guardsman with a DP-27 MG
  • Penals get a flamethrower and molotovs, locking out the AT upgrade

The Engineers are basically the same, they just get one more man. The Conscripts stay the same but, the Guardsman has all the characteristics of a Guards Infantry model and the Conscripts retain 1 slot for weapons pick-up. Penals become a very potent anti-infantry unit but, it's at the expense of having no AT ability.

This ability could not appear with any conscript upgrades in the doctrine which contains it but, it could be paired with the specialist infantry units. The ability is an upgrade so, players can choose whether to use it and which units will receive it. It would be a low CP (0 or 1) ability so, players would have access to it early in the game. However, I believe it would increase the utility of the core infantry in a durable way, allowing them to maintain their presence on the battlefield throughout the game.

This isn't necessarily the best idea I can find but, I have given it a lot of thought and I think it would have a big impact on Soviet infantry tactics. Now I'd like to see what other people think.

What is your choice?

Tagged:

Comments

  • #2
    10 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 660

    After teching, Pioneer can lay ATmine, Smine, bunker, repair & flank weapon team.
    While CE only do lay TM-35mine & repair. And they cant fight anything even flanking weapon team.
    CE should gain their price to 200mp and have 6men by default.

    Penal option between AI & AT is great. But a squad with many abilities will become the core, as nowaday Penal totally replace Cons.

  • #3
    10 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @C3Tooth Those are good points. With this ability, upgraded cons would be more suited to mid-to-long range combat, while the flamer/molotov combo of the Penal upgrade suits shorter ranges. Their SVT's will still give them longer range capability but, to do their best work, they'll need to get in close.

    When it comes to the Engineers, you're right. They should get more. The 4 original models should receive PPSh's, while the fifth model should come with an SVT-40. However, this would lock out the flamethrower upgrade. They should also gain the ability to construct sandbags and trenches, increasing their non-combat versatility.

    For me, it was a very sad day when they nerfed the demolitions charges. They are pretty much limited to non-combat uses now, which I think sucks. They removed one of the Engineers most potent weapons, essentially turning them into Non-combat Engineers. Changing their guns would help get them back in the game.

    I look forward to hearing about the new ability you would most like to see. Cheers.

  • #4
    10 months ago
    YappirYappir Posts: 58

    Soviet infantry can ride tanks.
    I do not care how, why. All i care it looks too good not to be in the game.

  • #5
    10 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    Yep, it looks good; I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have on the game though. I guess it would save a player the cost of buying a transport. The faction which would get the most benefit out of it would be the OKW. Their lack of transport makes playing on a big map a pain and being able to ride a tank would really help them.

    Men in all armies rode tanks in the war. After all, why walk when you can hitch a ride? The trick was getting off - knowing how and when to do it without getting killed.

  • #6
    10 months ago
    freejones12freejones… Posts: 58
    edited February 14

    I mostly roll with OKW, so I'll just give a suggestion for that:

    My suggestion is adding an ability called Heavy Repair. Basically, going with the theme of the OKW being late-war Germany and basically yeeting vehicles into barely working order, it would allow

    1: Vehicle crews to quickly repair critically damaged modules at the cost of munitions and fuel. Perhaps 35 munitions/10 fuel per damaged module and 50 munitions/25 fuel per destroyed module.
    2: Allow Sturmpioneers to be upgraded with a Bergepioneer kit, allowing them to fully repair (but not recrew) destroyed vehicles. This would take much longer, and use 15/30/75 fuel to repair light/medium/heavy vehicles respectively. It functions similarly to the Bergetiger from CoH1.

    Seeing how the OKW would need every vehicle they can get, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to have an ability that allows them to repair vehicles to working order at a cheaper cost but much longer time, longer than it takes to produce a new one, instead of just salvaging. Alternatively, it can be balanced to be faster but bring vehicles to crewable status, yet have fully destroyed modules.

  • #7
    10 months ago
    SlayerSlayer Posts: 132
    A general suggestion for any army: the ability to steal a vehicle or building. Remember the engineer from Command & Conquer? He walked into a base building and took it over. A bit gimmicky maybe, but imagine how muchfun it would be to steal a tank or a bunker. Not entirely unhistorical either: it has been done irl :)
  • #8
    10 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @freejones12 I like the idea but, the Bergepioneer fuel costs seem a little cheap. I think they'd still be a bargain at twice the price. 150 fuel and 0 manpower for a heavy tank seems pretty good to me. There would be a lot of incentive for anyone playing against the OKW to destroy any wrecks completely.

    @Slayer Abandoned tanks can already be "stolen" but, stealing one which isn't abandoned would be quite a feat. You would have to be prepared to see a lot of engineer teams getting killed before you managed to pull it off. Bunkers make more sense. It could be like the hospitals in medical sectors - capture it with an engineer, the gunner dies and is replaced with a gunner from your faction. If players could steal bunkers, the bunkers would have to be kept manned to prevent it. That would change the way the game was played in a big way.

    Capturing base buildings would completely change team games. The ramifications are so staggering I don't believe many players would agree to it. Fun to think about if you're the one doing the stealing; horrifying if you're on the receiving end.

  • #9
    10 months ago
    SlayerSlayer Posts: 132
    I don't think stealing base buildings will happen often: you have to bring an engineer to the enemy base and keep him alive.

    Alone he can only do it when you have destroyed the base bunkers.

    In an apc he has more chance but the targeted player would have to be superbusy not to notice: all retreated units will fire at the engineer/apc.

    Taking over OKW buildings away from base would be easier, but if the OKW guy builds his Schwere close to the other buildins, there is no problem.


    So the stealing would primarily be vehicles, bunkers and maybe caches. It could be implemented like Scorched Earth, when the engineer is given enough time to build something trap-like, like the Scorched Earth thing, then after a timer goes down the binker/vehicle/cache changes hands. That way, from all vehicles, only afk vehicles will fall victim to it.
  • #10
    10 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @Slayer It sounds like you're looking for an ability which punishes players who are AFK but, it would have consequences larger than that.

    After you mentioned Command & Conquer, I remembered what I used to do in that game. I would attack one of the smaller bases and destroy everything but the construction yard. Then I would use an engineer to capture it and start re-building the base so I could produce enemy vehicles which fought for my side. The more I did it, the easier it became to achieve the final victory.

    With your suggestion, I imagined a scenario where players of one team targeted an enemy base and destroyed everything but the HQ (Tier 0) building. An engineer, protected by a small combat force, captured the HQ and began re-building the base, only it now belonged to that team. In this game, you can't even scuttle your buildings to prevent them from being captured. A 4v4 game would thus become a 5v3 game, which would inevitably become a 6v2 game and so on.

    As I said, this would completely change the way team games are played and I don't think many players would agree to it, especially if only one faction was capable of doing it. I guarantee the team that had this ability would always have a player with that commander in his roster.

    In my opinion, the version of this which makes the most sense within the game is a cache-stealing ability. It would work a bit like Salvage; engineers would take resources from caches until they are depleted, at which time they would be destroyed. After that, they would be captured in the usual manner. It should yield a lot more resources than a wreck but, it would take more time to harvest as well. This would be most useful to the OKW but, it would work for any faction. This idea has been suggested before but, it didn't seem to gain much traction, even though (or perhaps because) there was a unit which did this in CoH1.

  • #11
    9 months ago

    @PanzerFutz the fuel and manpower costs can easily be adjusted; I in no way consider myself an expert on game balance. I still think the idea of giving the OKW more ways to play as the "desperate defense salvaging or repairing whatever they can" is a fun idea, if properly balanced. And it would give enemies more incentive to destroy wrecks, provided they can secure it. Thinking about it, I can't see it as being too overused, as its very easy to destroy wrecks, perhaps even so easy that the ability would be seldom used.

  • #12
    9 months ago

    @Yappir said:
    Soviet infantry can ride tanks.
    I do not care how, why. All i care it looks too good not to be in the game.

    My Commander Mod features this! The animations look bad, but it's pretty fun to use tanks as battle taxis.

  • #13
    9 months ago
    SlayerSlayer Posts: 132

    @PanzerFutz I think you are more afraid of the ability than you have to :)

    Commander abilities are disabled in base areas by default, so why would this one work there? And moreover: attacking a base in the beginning of the game (assuming it's not annihilate gamemode) is next to suicidal. If it fails, and that is very likely, you are out of the game.

    Taking over a base is 200% impossible, due to aforementioned reasons and the fact that even if you take over HQ, you can not build any buildings there. Taking over base buildings is just a gimmick: you will only use it when your enemy is already on it's knees.

    The ability should be used more to take over vehicles the player forgot about, or caches like you mentioned yourself.

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