[OKW] Raketenwerfer performance

124

Comments

  • #92
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 5
    So lets revert all the allies TD buff 2 years ago if you think so. Do you not believe soviet winrates have jumped exponentially these days?

    If panther is in best spot yet, can we undo all the changes to it and allies along? I want it in worser spot like 2 years ago, back to 2016 meta.
  • #93
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > So lets revert all the allies TD buff 2 years ago if you think so. Do you not believe soviet winrates have jumped exponentially these days?

    I believe what I have evidence to support. You haven't given even a little bit of evidence so far, and what you did provide was meaningless.
  • #94
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    I actually think allied TDs ARE due for a nerf using something that isn't the KT as a benchmark
  • #95
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > I actually think allied TDs ARE due for a nerf using something that isn't the KT as a benchmark

    I don't necessarily disagree, but I think they are in of "adjustments". The rak43 needs to be completely re-done or replaced.

    It's such an unholy level of stupid that you could replace it with an arguably better unit (the pak40) and the game would still be better off.
  • #96
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 5
    Evidence is Soviet have by far dominant win rates.

    I disagree rak is level of stupid when allies have a lot more cheese now.

    Rak is bad once allies late armor come.

    To be fair, the camo is very useful. I recommend like earlier posted, decrease its damage from 160 to 120, because of fast lock on time, so it takes 4 instead of 3 to kill t70.

    Decrease its range from 50 to 40 because of active camo.

    Everything else remain same.

    At the same time, buff jadpanzer penetration to 240 from 200, to deal with allies stronger late game armor.
  • #97
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    Allied cheese is irrelevant and shouldn't be used as a basis to keep cheese because all that turns into when trying to fix allied cheese is "hurr durr the rakk is cheesy!" and we get nowhere. Fix shit that's broken. full stop.

    Making the rakk preform worse won't fix it. Lower damage and range means it will not stop ANY light tanks and make it pointless against mediums too.

    @SkysTheLimit I really don't like the idea of swapping it for a pak40, one of the things I like so much about okw is their vast array of unique AT weapons depending on what you are facing and what resources you have on hand, swapping with a pak imo makes the others almost redundant because the pak is made with none of that flexibility in mind.

    I think there is life left in the rak, they just need to care enough to do it.

    Making it a wee bit faster at aiming with maybe a longer wind down to keep ROF the same

    Maybe bump to 5 man crew to aid in durability and offset the range

    Camo only when stationary IF that's necessary, perhaps the 5th man is enough to offset the camo?

    That I think would make it usable.
    Although I think the camo is needed to deal with lights, since they are so quick that they could just zip around it. Although keeping a volks on hand (and God knows there will be lots of volks to keep on hand) is likley enough to prevent that.
  • #98
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Im in favour of faction asymmetric, so i voted to keep rak active camo, retreat and fast lock on. But im fine with a damage reduction, which still can force away light med tanks.

    Any other removals don't make sense, replacing with pak, removin camo, nonsense just pandering to allies meta again. Maybe l2p against rak, get your arty, dont rush freely with t70, use you heavy tanks to push, am saying it right?
  • #99
    6 months ago
    DarjeelingMK7Darjeelin… Posts: 244
    Yeah, rak damage reduction and then crying about how OKW cant fight again light and medium vehicle, leading to a buff demand for axis TD. Nice plane.

    The chessy of steath rak sneaking behind the line giving free sight and hunt for alies mobile arty, 1 shoot kat, 1 shoot priest, 1 shoot sexton. All of that must continue, of course.

    It is nice to steal a rak and use it again axis, to. Free sight is awesome.
  • #100
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 5
    No i been asking for axis td pen buff consistently. If allies have so much trouble with stealth rak, we can make it less lethal.

    But the fact still stands axis struggle to contain allies damage sponge IS and Churchills.

    By all means steal a loss rak. Need i remain allies get a lot more sight abilities doc and non-doc, or build a sniper if you need too.
  • #101
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited March 5
    @thedarkarmadillo I don't think replacing it is the best idea either, that was just a sarcastic point. The pak40 is better overall but needs more micro than cloaked raks.

    I think a 5 man one would be good if camo is gone. That or it keeps stationary camo but loses the retreat. Can you explain the aimtime change for me? The current Rak feels like one of the most responsive AT guns to me. The ZiS is easily the worst at that
  • #102
    6 months ago
    DarjeelingMK7Darjeelin… Posts: 244
    A sniper cant stay invisible in the middle of a road like rak.

    Alies have sight options but all
    being counterable by shoot down the plane, or ineffective, like early warning.

    So far, the only recon option that cheap, accuracy and uncounterable is OKW's flare. One of the axis chessy is recon flare + zero or strafe run, uncounterable rather than running.
  • #103
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    @SkysTheLimit might just be me but I feel like it doesn't shoot sometimes as things close, again could just be me but regardless with short range it needs to be able to make em count.
  • #104
    6 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,621

    @mrgame2 said:
    So lets revert all the allies TD buff 2 years ago if you think so. Do you not believe soviet winrates have jumped exponentially these days?

    If panther is in best spot yet, can we undo all the changes to it and allies along? I want it in worser spot like 2 years ago, back to 2016 meta.

    If you do believe so, provide proof.
    "I said so" is not valid proof.

    You also are blisfully ignorant to the fact that all allies TDs HAVE to engage all axis tanks, one of these STOCK tanks has 375 armor and allied TDs need to kill it as well.

    They all already shoot slowest in game, giving you all the time you need to react and retreat.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but panther was one of many reasons allied TDs got chances, not THE reason.

  • #105
    6 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200
    edited March 5

    I mean you check on the average win ratio between all factions on homepage. Just do some math you will see which team and of course depending on the player and who has an easier time winning compared to other factions. Go to leaderboards and just look to the win ratio, just compare to other factions. I think Soviets have better overall win ratio compared to any other faction in game. It is there so that all can see.

    Talisman as everyone knows, currently on the score board has a streak of +54 wins as Soviets, I am not too sure if that has happened with any other factions too but it looks as if though Soviets are currently the best team in game. Looks as if he Talisman understands completely his options as Soviets in order to maintain such a great consistency as you can see on the leaderboards and his stats.

    Soviets have every advantage in game. Manning another team weapon will become from a 4 guy to 6 guys, I have mentioned that on another forum and how this a problem that can be fixed, should be fixed. It is called SU EQUIPPING OTHER TEAM WEAPONS ISSUE, DIVERSITY, GAME ISSUES. I do not do all this for fun, I enjoy this game a lot and I just think it is too big an issue that should be solved since it clearly gives them an upperhand in everything, especially when their factions is already completely versatile, survivability, health, abilities, special units, great vehicles, great doctrines many more things that other factions lack.

    There is really no flaw with SU. They have great generalists and specialists which some factions suffer in either of those terms. SU is definitely a very strong faction. Of course there are downsides in every team but overall SU, just happens to have more upsides. There is a clear distinction. It is most certainly not impossible to go up against them but it certainly is very difficult if a player knows completely how good his options are.

    SU definitely has great heavy tanks, I think KV2 is definitely their strongest beast. Completely annihilates vehicles and infantry and has great armour. If its shot ricochets a vehicle it does half damage, so in that sense it really never ricochets. It is really good. Satchel Charge or huge demolition bomb that takes little ammo to destroy a fuel or ammo cache which axis does not have a utility the would cost effectively destroy it with one ability use.

    If axis had Satchel Charge, It would be most certain that they would have an easier time to counter buildings, caches and emplacements. SU has some utilities and capabilities that axis lack. There is just more positive things to say about SU overall capabilites alongside UKF being another very strong faction in my opinion. Nothing bad, more positive things to say, Axis definitely has some difficulties against emplacements that are very strong and sometimes too difficult to counter. That is as long it is handled properly. All units SU and UKF, well in place, some factions however have some specialists and generalists that does not live to its full expectations.

    Luchs is just one of the problems that I have mentioned, for being a specialist. Just read the one before, the long one, not going to repeat myself again.

    So, those are my thoughts.

  • #106
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @Balanced_Gamer said:
    > I mean you check on the average win ratio between all factions on homepage. Just do some math you will see which team and of course depending on the player and who has an easier time winning compared to other factions. Go to leaderboards and just look to the win ratio, just compare to other factions. I think Soviets have better overall win ratio compared to any other faction in game. It is there so that all can see.

    The winrates on those leaderboards are for the their entire 6 year history of the game. They mean very little about what's going on right now.

    They are also only for the top 10 players, in a game played by thousands.

    AND this thread is about the Rak. Why did you just write all of that about the Soviets? What's that got to do with anything here?
  • #107
    6 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200
    edited March 6

    It was in response to what was said earlier, the page before at the bottom now, where there was discussion about evidence of which faction performs better or has better win ratio overall. It just came at the wrong time I suppose.

    Raketenwerfer is good for surprising, most definitely, late game still good but very exposed. Do not know if anyone has experienced this but, if you have a Raketenwerfer (not too sure if other AT guns experience this) when you direct its aim towards a general direction to an enemy vehicle, there seems to be as if though there is a delay before it shoots, and completely misses sometimes.

    It works great otherwise when you click to attack the enemy, that is when it starts to shoot without delay. Is this a bug? Has anyone experienced this by the way.?

  • #108
    6 months ago
    ReichsgardeReichsgar… Bad Tolz, Bayern, GermanyPosts: 121
    Hello everyone. I really must say that the Raketenwerfer is an AT gun that requires no nerfing. It has 10 shorter range than Allied AT guns (which means it requires camo to close in the distance) and has no gun shield to protect its crew from HE shells and small arms fire.

    I cannot believe the OP actually thought that this mediocre AT gun needs further nerfing. Let us not forget that due to OKW's lack of decent AT options, the newly proposed doctrine focuses on anti-tank.
  • #109
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    > @Reichsgarde said:
    > Hello everyone. I really must say that the Raketenwerfer is an AT gun that requires no nerfing. It has 10 shorter range than Allied AT guns (which means it requires camo to close in the distance) and has no gun shield to protect its crew from HE shells and small arms fire.
    >
    > I cannot believe the OP actually thought that this mediocre AT gun needs further nerfing. Let us not forget that due to OKW's lack of decent AT options, the newly proposed doctrine focuses on anti-tank.

    Anybody that thinks removing the movement while cloaked would be a nerf and not a quality of life change across the board is likley guilty of using it exclusively.
    If there was no risk of people abusing it the rakk would likley get a buff, hell I WANT it to get a buff, but it needs to lose its cheese.
  • #110
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    No i dont think active camo is such bad quality of life because of Rak weakness compared to other ATG, it is better to keep things as they are.

  • #111
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited March 8
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > because of Rak weakness compared to other ATG, it is better to keep things as they are.


    It's 270 manpower and you pay absolutely nothing to unlock it. It SHOULD be much worse than other AT guns.


    > @Reichsgarde said:
    > I cannot believe the OP actually thought that this mediocre AT gun needs further nerfing.

    Maybe if you read more than the OP on a 4 page discussion you would see that most of us are proposing nerfs AND buffs.

    It should get 60 range and a 5th man. In exchange it loses camo and the ability to retreat. That would be how I do it.
  • #112
    6 months ago
    ReichsgardeReichsgar… Bad Tolz, Bayern, GermanyPosts: 121

    I do apologise if I did not read the entire thread... it's quite hard to participate in forums while also managing my other life priorities (Lol). I agree with @SkysTheLimit that 60 range and a 5th man would make the Raketenwerfer 43 a more viable AT gun. In addition to these, I would probably add a couple of abilities to make it more micro-intensive and useful. Lastly, some reduced received accuracy (since there is no gun shield...) would help.

  • #113
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    No, the camo should stay.

    Rak gets decrew very fast to infantry fire.

    Another suggestion, we drop to 3 man on vet0, and back to 4 man at vet1. Remove vet1 camo speed movement. Camo mode movement speed is slow and needs a lot of baby sitting.

    At same time, lower pop cap of Luch and Armor car and Halftrack.

  • #114
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    Rak gets decreed really fast so let's keep it cheesy and make it easier to de-crew. That'll fix it. Next we will fix maxim spam by making them half priced.
  • #115
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    I dont get your point dark?
    Removing 1 man at vet0, removing camo speed at vet1 is straight nerf to Rak.
    Making maxim 50% cheap is straight buff?
    OKW is the only faction that still compete against the 3 allies faction, so there is call such as Rak nerf to lower their performance?

    I dont find Rak cheesy, it perfomance as it should, good for early med tanks, with late & expensive Panther and underperforming Jadpanzer much later..

    If anything is cheesy, maxim instant repack times need to relook, thats why 2v2 and above can spam maxim, more often than spam Rak. Rak needs a lot more care. A lot of Allies meta buff today, needs less care.

    There is no reason maxim instant repack exist now that a lot of changes were made to team weapons and arty.

    Look at this tightrope new upload. You dont see Rak changing the game.

    If anything, it disapprove that allies MG are worse off. The 50cal performs as good, and more lethal than MG42. Tightrope had to waste popcap to get the LEIG guns, while USF have major arty to disrupt Okw lines.

    Another cheese i been saying, Allies army size/popcap needs a relook. They just keep coming back, if Tightrope did not have dominant early game, you bet the 3 m4c and the rest of USF unit composition will over run OKW.

  • #116
    6 months ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 693
    edited March 10
    The fact that the maxim has a deatloop, the fact it has trouble supressing, the fact that it costs the same as a mg42 and requires tech but preforms worse all do validate instant packup imo.

    The .50 comes later costs more, meaning it will face upgraded inf when fielded mostly. Thats why it should be as good as it is.

    Leig a waste of popcap to counter mg,s? They do force off mg,s, how is that a waste of popcap? Just because the leig got out done in turn?

    Okw has the most ways to heal, the most cost efficient main line and treu non doc elite inf, and super heavy tank.

    Ost has ocp bunkers, the strongest at mine, the doctrines give good abities to more then one type off unit. Pnzr tactician is imo the biggest one.

    Allies have better pop seems resonable to me.
  • #117
    6 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    I think Maxim is quite good. The fact it has higher damage, faster undeploy time, Long cooldown, great against guys behind cover and 6 man. The Maxim is quite good in my opinion. I used it to harass the enemy many times, and it is easier to use than MG42.

    If you deploy the MG42 wrongly, it is less forgiving than Maxim. If you have more than one guy flanking you, you can always move, Maxim is good overall but the only thing it lacks is supression and has smaller arc, the only downsides I really see, and they are not many at all. Since its weaknesses feel compensated for. It really kills units. It has even a hard time being countered.

    If you have sustained casualties with Maxim, use Conscript to merge, that is what I usually do, then you can always hold ground. With Axis, you have to retreat thus giving them the opportunity to push.

    Compare any other MG in game, which is the hardest to kill, Maxim is simply the answer. I find it the most difficult MG to counter in game myself. If you have 2 and more Maxims, it is enough to support each other to push for some more ground, it drops models faster than MG34 and MG42 which is a great compensation for having poor supression, which forces them to retreat when they have low models. If anything it is great.

    For Maxim spam 1v1 for me always work, it is simply great. If I try to spam MG42 and MG34, it is likely it will not go as well. Do not get me wrong. MG42 and MG34 are great, the only upside I see really is supression, huge arc. The downsides I see mostly are damage, survivability and deploy time. Vickers is the best HMG in game it has everything except survivability.

    I know this is not a part of the Raketenwerfer discussion, but it is something that I just wanted to mention in response to what was said recently.

  • #118
    6 months ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 693
    The raketten should be an ambush at gun. Waiting for the target. Not a sneaking tank assasin wich creeps forewards.
    The requierement to camo should be that it is stationary. Should be so for the zis as well.
  • #119
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    @mrgame2 the point is that it's counter intuitive. The idea isn't to nerf the rak, but instead rebalance it. Knocking off a man is a change nobody wants to see because it makes it less usable. It will fix rak spam be removing the rak (see sturmtiger and demo charges for similar balancing methods)
  • #120
    6 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Dark, that's the thing, i dont find rak spamming or break game. I had suggested nerf because relic seem to sway when it comes to axis units, nerf is compromised to keep rak unique active camo.

    Another timely tight rope cast, plenty of raks. They did not break game and turnover to okw. They die easily to all arty. Only thing they prevent allies from being to careless with tanks. Reasonable when allies tank are either cheaper, faster, longer range, or higher armour.

    Basically something like allies TD in preventing free movements, but they without the durability. Rak need more micro to babysit to use fully active camo, not dig in and forget units.

    Another suggestion is to reduce damage from 160 to 80, and give deflection damage, like panzershrek.

  • #121
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821

    they can remain a threat without creeping death. reducing model count isnt going to help anyone but the soviet

    mirroring the shrek stats on a set up gun with 50 range would also work.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.