OKW - All - Schwerer Panzer Headquarters (Tier 4)

#1
3 months ago

Problem:

This building is getting rushed way to early into the game and settled down in special capture point zones such as: Victory Points, Fuel Points or even Ammo Depot (depending on what's best for the current map). This forbids any enemy intention of capturing crucial points or destroying the main building too early with hordes of enemy infantry roaming around. Granting almost a free win for the cheesy OBW player (even me) who barely plays them.

This problem is more noticeable on 2v2 or 1v1. Creating a huge advantage.

Solution

Forbidding the construction of the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters (Tier 4) outside of special capture points territories such as Victory Points, Fuel Points, and Ammunition Points. Also, reducing its range by 10% more or less, as there are small maps where territories boundaries are close to the special capture points mentioned before, still allowing them to annihilate any effort of capturing.

Such proposal should restore balance to games where the OBW seems to have kind of an effortless victory.

If you think this is worth reviewing please share an up-vote on this post.

Thanks for your attention Relic and to the community!

Patrol Omega

«1

Comments

  • #2
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196
    edited March 15

    Sorry I noticed I expressed myself wrong here

    Solution:
    Forbidding the construction of the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters (Tier 4) INSIDE of special capture points territories such as Victory Points, Fuel points or Ammunition points.

    The purpose of this is forcing the OBW to fight for valuable capture point zones in equal conditions as their enemies.

  • #3
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 360

    Reducing range will make it too vulnerable from ATgun, since this building cost 135fuel 300mp.

    Though I agree to make it unable to setup on special Points. For example a FlakHQ lock down to control both Vic & Fuel in Red ball express, combined with 2 camo Rak to sight & defend from tanks.

  • #4
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196

    I agree the range nerf might not be necessary, but forbidding constructing it on those territories should be a must!.

    Now imagine having to deal against two OBW in 2v2 or 3v3 with those lame things settled next to both fuel depots! LOL gg unbalance game.

    The Allies will not be able to counter effectively the Tiger IV rush or worse with their AT-guns low damage against medium to heavy Axis tanks, due to their high deflecting values in addition to shiny armor.

    The game should be friendlier to new players with these frustrating details.

  • #5
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    What about Brit bofors? Lol.
  • #6
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,793
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > What about Brit bofors? Lol.
    >

    Bofors takes a special tech that locks brits out of a LV and takes up pop. Should you avoid the area a portion of their army is doing nothing. Ignore the area a schwere is in Aaaand the impact is nothing because their volks blob will be just as strong as ever.
  • #7
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Well destroy a sherwhq lock out okw t4..
    Brit blob with brens delete squads even on retreat!

    If topic is about lockout sectors in team games, bofor is much big problem, brit emplacement is much big problem.

    So this is old news and wrong.
  • #8
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,793
    The brits have to make a decision in their teching to get the bofors, a decision based entirely on holding ground or taking it. You can't restrict the ability to place their defensive structure, selected specifically for that task, where they want it. The schwere is a tech structure. That you can in good conscience restrict should it be deemed necessary. But as you said, losing it is a major setback.
  • #9
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Allies have more options to knock out a max of 4 sherwhq...just saying. Even a katsuya has been redesigned to deal massive damage to it.

    Brit multiple emplacements on other hand... with braces and even a commander choice, are so much more need to 'restore' balance..

    There are reasons why top players keep their sherwhq back in current meta..
  • #10
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,793

    and how many top players build sim city?

  • #11
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196

    British emplacements were longtime nerfed, read patch notes at least.

    On the other hand, OBW gets to build a MUST building/headquarter next to a victory point or fuel depot and hold it for the rest of the game almost for free, now that has been so overpowered for years and is time to correct it.

  • #12
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    When i was in 300-800 rank range, 3v3 and 4v4 teams do make good use of sim city. Hence i brought up that 2 direct panzerwafers barrage should reduce emplacement hp down to 5-10%
  • #13
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,793

    sim city USSED to be viable, hasnt for a long time

  • #14
    3 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > What about Brit bofors? Lol.


    You mean the anti-air gun that can't even shoot aircraft? What about it?
  • #15
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 360

    Brit should have their whole army redesigned, or at least hope they will change it in Coh3.

    Option1: Give them better unit but not as many unit & well combine armed as Ost (since Ost is always designed to be a well combined army). Those placements should be split into Commanders

    Option2: Make their placements has cone angle aiming like MG, AT weapon team, or Q17 pounder. So they will have to rotate their cone angle. Give Bofor 'AA' mode like FlakHQ. Build an placement and it will auto do the work, is not fit into this high micro game.

    • We all know how crazy Bofor was back then for its 'auto do the job'. This is the reason I believe Flak88 isnt in Coh2.

    There must be limited by either:
    Snap into Commanders (dont put all emplacement into 1 Commander like OKW Fortify doc)
    Make it non-doc but micro skill required

    • For today Brit emplacement is non-doc & non-micro-skill make them worthless in both durable & firepower
  • #16
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196

    Answering you back C3:

    When it comes to non-micro skill, Axis MG's with instant suppression and swapping between targets without giving any commands comes out on top. Not to mention the same thing for the T4 HQ. In general, the game is very friendly if you play the Axis factions as they don't require as much micro, in contrast to the USF (most micro skill required) or any other Ally faction. Even their tanks are micro friendly because they come with heavy armor and high deflection values, so you can just simply wreck the vast majority of enemy tanks by attacking the front-rear, but we can't apply the same "strategy" to Allies tanks.

    Now, the British are known for their emplacements and is great that they have them without requiring any commander. On the other side, both the Wer and the Obw have small emplacements as well without needing any tech or commander to settle them down, but they weren't known for them, as they focused on Blitzkrieg tactics to quickly conquer the enemy, instead of turtling down waiting for the enemy.
    Therefore, if it comes to that, the British have higher rights to have them without any restrictions.

  • #17
    3 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,593

    @mrgame2 said:
    What about Brit bofors? Lol.

    What about it?

    Its not free, it occupies pop cap, it does block you from making AEC.
    Would you like shwerer to have an upgrade for the gun that will prevent you from making P4 or Panther once you get it?

  • #18
    3 months ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 1,983

    @thedarkarmadillo said:

    Bofors takes a special tech that locks brits out of a LV and takes up pop. Should you avoid the area a portion of their army is doing nothing. Ignore the area a schwere is in Aaaand the impact is nothing because their volks blob will be just as strong as ever.

    In turn you get a durable battlefortress that annihilates everything in range thats not a tank and costs as little as a light vehicle. Also it it blows up you dont lose a tech level. And while it may cost pop, it allows you to focus your army on another part of the map as the Bofors will at the very least delay enemy pushes into that territory by a decent amount of time.

  • #19
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196

    @Hingie getting buildings next to important zones and then totally forget about that area? LOL I thought you were actually talking about Wehrmacht cheap but effective bunkers or OBW T4 HQ, not even consuming pop cap . . . or even OBW cheap stationary turrets.

    Soviets don't even get access to a single fortification or turret .... they just get sandbags and wire hahaha they don't get those gifts that the Axis already posses without any restrictions.

  • #20
    3 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 183

    If you compare Bofors and the Last HQ of OKW, Bofors is overall stronger and more forgiving. If you lose either of them, it is quite obvious who will suffer the hardest which is OKW, 130 fuel wasted and 200 manpower and what comes along with it, in addition to purchasing Truck. Bofors however if you lose it, it is only 280 manpower and 30 fuel I think, which is more forgiving and deadlier overall, comes earlier even.

    I do not know why anyone compares it to a Bofors because in late game, both allies and axis have enough to counter these two with much more ease, Schwere Panzer Headquarters if lost, will be more devastating than losing a Bofors that protects specific fuel and ammo points earlier. I understand Birts have to make a dilemma but OKW has a base that is overall more vulnerable and risky. Brits have Brace Structure which is OP in my opinion, it should cost ammo when activating ability for preventing it from getting destroyed when OKW does not have a chance of protecting their headquarters when it is more costy overall, Brits counter easily with coordinated fire and additional commander arty abilities which I do not think axis really have.

    If anything overall, it is easier to destroy a Schwere Panzer Headquarters than a Bofors, according to its time timing (its time of arrival), cost and abilities. Although you sacrifice AEC for Bofors, Puma wont even be able to destroy Bofors single handedly if I could remember correctly that someone had mentioned it but the fact is it sustains so much damage from Bofors that Puma becomes useless against it. There is really nothing to counter 1v1 early to mid game against Bofors compared to Late Game OKW headquarters.

    Schwere Panzer Headquarters is of course difficult to counter but nothing in comparison to the difficulty in countering bofors.

  • #21
    3 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    > @Hingie said:
    > In turn you get a durable battlefortress that annihilates everything in range thats not a tank and costs as little as a light vehicle. Also it it blows up you dont lose a tech level.

    And that's not airplanes. Can we please not forget that this anti-air gun is literally incapable of killing aircraft. Yes it's a bug but it's been in the game so long now that it's a part of the discussion. You can place your schwere 5 feet outside your base sector and it will still at least give you solid AA for free.

    > @Hingie said:
    > And while it may cost pop, it allows you to focus your army on another part of the map as the Bofors will at the very least delay enemy pushes into that territory by a decent amount of time.

    The schwere does this too without impacting the number of units you can send to those other parts of the map. It also doesn't lock you out of one of your best units.

    There's no reason to compare the Bofors and the schwere. I don't mean that one is much better than the other, they just aren't really comparable. The decisions that go into them are too different
  • #22
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 19
    I spoke bofor because it does all schwere but better. If allies have trouble deal with 1 schwere per count, axis have big trouble with multi bofor! Any nerf to schwere must apply to bofor and more.

    At a pop cap of 1 infantry squad, but if it area deny much longer, it is well spent. Popcap is of little consequences for its purpose.

    You speak of losing aec as a big problem, it is not, now with homing piat, early light vehicles from axis can be counter, it encourages you to faster tech to cromwell.

    AA abilities can be set with a manual toggle like schwere, not sure if you like the micro. Besides axis air call in is less lethal than allies. Hence relic feels AA bofor is performing enough well.

    So i find this schwere whining nonsense when bofor is way more anonyance on same issue.
  • #23
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196
    edited March 19

    @mrgame2 it seems like you don't even care about reading Patch notes . . .
    All British emplacements got nerfed several patches ago, making them so much weaker than before, however, I haven't read anything about Axis emplacements or T4 HQ amazing turret getting nerfed. Is funny because Bofors can't destroy tanks at the same rate as before BUT a T4 HQ placed anywhere and without pop restriction will destroy any medium to light tank getting close to it!

    Don't believe me? Go into a Mod and try it yourself and see how fast a HQ does the job for you without having to click anything.

  • #24
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 19
    Bofor now does the same things but does it better. So i dont get your complaints of schwere. What matters of t4 or bofor patch notes?

    Besides late game allies TD and call in arty will rekt schwere much easier than axis against bofor. Deal with it l2p
  • #25
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 360
    • PzHQ has 10 more range than Bofor
    • PzHQ can shoot down planes, Bofor can not
    • PzHQ has 600 more hp than Bofor
    • PzHQ can take down a medium, Bofor can take down a light tank

    Me too dont get your complains of Bofors.

  • #26
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 19

    C3 you are wrong here.

    Bofor rate of fire is almost twice of pzhq
    Bofor does higher pen chances
    Pzhq hits like flakpanzer, hitting the ground more often
    Pzhq manual toggle to shoot planes OR non-planes WITH cooldown
    Bofor kills medium the same
    Bofor kills infantry much faster

    Bofor Pzhq vs P4, same results P4 wins with half health left. Because of bofor rof and pen damages, over coming its lower HP.
    Bofor vs Pzhq. Bofor wins everytime because of higher rof and accuracy, over coming its lower HP.
    Bofor Pzhq vs infantry, Bofor wins due to rof. 4 man wehr = ez wipes.

    area denial, Bofor > Pzhq easily.

    It is all there, try the cheat mod.

  • #27
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited March 19

    Ok i just tested the AA mode of pzhq, so besides the LONG duration you need to choose exclusive between air OR land targets.
    1 Shwere do not engage airplanes any better than 1 bofor. Of course 2 bofors...;)

    Wow talk about nothing!

    Back to my conclusions, any changes to Pzhq must be followed by with Bofor. If you think Pzhq is OP annonying, than Bofor is even more.

    Or just delete this thread, TS is so wrong.

  • #28
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 360

    So you build PzHQ next to a Bofors?

  • #29
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    Yes but in cheat mod, i have fun testing but also put in effort to put through good qol suggestions.

  • #30
    3 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 196
    edited March 19

    @mrgame2 correcting you, Bofor, in reality, has lower pen chances and damage after it got nerfed (both to damage, pen chances, and armor), however, the Schwerer T4 never got anything nerfed in return since the game released. Meaning that this HQ is still very effective at destroying medium tanks aside from infantry. Bofors lack the potential that the OBW T4 HQ currently has in the present time.

    Therefore, I keep asking that the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters gets prohibited inside of special capture point zones and if possible a slightly range nerf as well (something that Bofors have far less range as well).

    Or wouldn't it be great for the T4 HQ to actually require an upgrade so it can get the turret on top of an almost indestructible building? Obviously costing Pop cap as well. I mean ..... that will come fairly with British forces Bofors.

  • #31
    3 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    No you wrong. Bofor still perform better than pzhq. Both bofor and pzhq have received nerf. Med tanks take the same health damage risk to destroy them Try the cheat mod your self.

    Dont forgot pzhq comes later which mean you should have a TD or arty by then. So much easier to destroy pzhq than early bofor, that is if okw player decides to take risk in deploy forward pzhq as lock down. Most dont.

    This topic is all wrong, delete please.

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