OKW - New Commander Mod Official Discussion

#1
7 months ago
Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 270 admin
edited March 20 in Commander Feedback

Hey all,

Please use this thread to discuss the New Commander Mod and provide any feedback you have in relation to OKW,

Current version notes, and instructions for how to play the mod are here: http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2019/03/19/new-commander-update-commander-rosters-and-test-mod

«134

Comments

  • #2
    7 months ago
    Schoki_JaegerSchoki_Ja… Posts: 24
    edited March 20

    As i saw in the mod, OKW is getting Panzerfusuliere, wich is perfecly fine but please reconsider the option of upgrading them for 120mun with 2 Panzerschrecks.
    The problem is the spam, we are already seeing Panzergrenadiere(340MP) being spamed to deal with allied tanks and its really effective but a squad witch costs 250mp has 5 models and has the option for 2 Panzerschrecks is just really scary and is going to be spamed even more than Panzergrens!!!

  • #3
    7 months ago
    SlonekSlonek Posts: 8
    edited March 20

    Errors detected so far:
    1 - Volks gets thorough salvage option (??)
    2 - For new panserfusiliers, I've upgraded first to G43, then picked up Soviet flame thrower, and all the sudden, was able to use schreck upgrade (!!!) for 50 muni (??); interestingly, it gave me only 1 schreck, but still I had uber team - 6 men, 3xG43, 1 Soviet flame thrower and 1 schreck.... ;)

  • #4
    7 months ago
    SlonekSlonek Posts: 8
    edited March 20

    Bug with triple upgrade (G43, picked up flame thrower, one schreck for 50 muni) reconfirmed (it does not give tellers)
    3 - Animation for planting tellers is ...hmmm...less the ideal. There is no indication ('shadow') where exactly mines will be planted, and digging animation for one soldier is far shorter than planting procedure anyway...

  • #5
    7 months ago
    SlonekSlonek Posts: 8

    4 - Tactical movement applied to vet 5 panzerfusiliers (with auto-sprint) locks tactical movement indicator above the team (indicator stays after timeout)

  • #6
    7 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @Schoki_Jaeger said:
    > As i saw in the mod, OKW is getting Panzerfusuliere, wich is perfecly fine but please reconsider the option of upgrading them for 120mun with 2 Panzerschrecks.
    > The problem is the spam, we are already seeing Panzergrenadiere(340MP) being spamed to deal with allied tanks and its really effective but a squad witch costs 250mp has 5 models and has the option for 2 Panzerschrecks is just really scary and is going to be spamed even more than Panzergrens!!!

    If we learned anything from JLI it's that relic has learned nothing from previous balance failures. 235mp single Shrek volks was too strong and needed removed but 15mp more is good enough for another Shrek.
  • #7
    7 months ago
    vsrvsr Posts: 93

    yeaah 250 MP and double shreks combo is highly spammable.

    Possible fix: Increase MP to 350 and CP req to 3.

  • #8
    7 months ago
    • OKW - Grand Offensive
      I'm so glad that we still got our panzerfusilier rework, thank you Relic, that helps alleviate the loss of Anti-Tank Tactics. I think the choice between Panzerschrecks or G43s is great, as it frees up Sturmpioneers to focus on repairing instead of being makeshift AT infantry. I was a little spooked when I saw squad size reduced to 5, but the G43 bringing it back to 6 is good. A 6 man squad with 2 Panzerschrecks is a little too strong. Smoke and Tactical movement are good. The Offensive package is another great change, now I can finally have my super strong infantry army. Would have liked to have the Offizier in it as well, but I'll take what I can get. If this gives Sturmpioneers flamethrowers too, that's even better. Lastly, the OKW tiger is good, as that was a selling point of this doctrine. I'm so glad that its command ability is tied to an ability that costs munitions and has a cooldown, as that should keep blobbing to a minimum. It is a great way to round off the OKW's armor.

    As a side note about the OKW, I suggest you rework the Sturm Offizier in the same way, preferably from suggestion's I've made in previous posts (https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245770/okw-all-sturm-offizier-reworked-suggestion) The gist of it is that the Offizier is less blobby and more useful with good micro.

  • #9
    7 months ago
    Sander93Sander93 Posts: 49
    edited March 21

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    235mp single Shrek volks was too strong and needed removed but 15mp more is good enough for another Shrek.

    Do keep in mind that in regards to / as opposed to old Volksgrenadier Panzerschrecks:

    • Volks back then had no other upgrades and there was nothing else in stock OKW roster to spend munitions on (except Obers);
    • There were no other strategic choices, unlike now where one must choose between AI or AT upgrades;
    • Pfussies with 2x Schrecks have practically no AI DPS left, unlike Volks Schrecks that had plenty of AI DPS left;
    • Pfussies are super munitions heavy with 90 MUNI and 120 MUNI upgrades;
    • The doctrine is pretty munitions heavy (MP40 upgrades, Stuka smoke and tactical movement)
  • #10
    7 months ago

    OKW Tiger

    Available at 13 CPs as a callin.
    Veterancy 4: ‘Command Tiger’ ability unlocked. Reduces weapon cooldoown by 25% and received accuracy by 20% for 30 seconds. 35 munitions. 25m radius.
    Veterancy 5: Command Tiger ability reduces the reload of vehicles by 20% and the received accuracy of vehicles by 20%. Does not affect the Tiger.
    During this ability, the tank will have reduced combat performance. Increases the Tiger's reload time by 40% and reduces accuracy by 30%.

    vet 4 is way too far and cant see easily new skill

    put this skill in vet 0 or 1 and give smoke in vet 4

    and 25m radius is too small(35~40 is enough)

  • #11
    7 months ago
    WAAAGH2000WAAAGH2000 Posts: 87

    OKW Offensive Package
    only have MP40? maybe can let Infrared MP44 and this Offensive Package be one ability?at least look like more useful and give Special operations doctrine little buff

  • #12
    7 months ago

    Greetings!

    Nice jobs you have done and thanks so much!

    I have tried to use it several times tonight, while there are some bugs I have found as well as some ideas for reference.

    1. OKW Tiger ‘Command Tiger’ ability now is invalid, no effects or consumption would happen after clicking it.

    2. ‘Command Tiger’ skill on Veterancy 4 and 5 is a little bit too late for most of 1v1 and 2v2 player, and even 3-4 players game (the skill is not permanent right? only 30s... no need to be so cautious....)

    Actually the idea from Hyper sounds reasonable, put the skill at vet 0. Vet1 could unlock a smoke skill. Vet 2 increase amour and ph as usual. Vet 3 like tiger Ace. 4 could improved the ‘Command Tiger’ skill. 5. could increase the duration time or even put it permanent. (sounds fancy but how many tigers or king tigers could reach vet 5 in games? so it is not a over-powerful option I guess)

    1. OKW Offensive Package

    For the moment, both mp40s and a normal grenade are not that worthy as a single skill of a new commander. We could enhance it or replace it a little bit.
    Some half-baked ideas....

    Enhancing job could be worked with lmg/ mp40s choices, which is be able to increasing VG's long range dps or short dps in later game, a little bit solving the no anti-infanty armor weakness of OKW in late games. Or we could replace it, with an Area-control Skill, like Light arti support; or with Stuka close air support, some area-clear skill to help with pushing.

    4.The MP40s rework is really worth expecting. If firing rate and range could be modulated then the Feuersturm commander may even benefit from this.

    For the moment, these are my ideas and feelings from the new commander update. I will use them more and try to find more bugs or come up with some new ideas for your reference

    Thanks for your work again!

  • #13
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 300
    edited March 21

    Panzerfusilliers

    This will for sure break the game.

    1) 250 MP cost
    10 more MP cost than Conscripts for far better unit stats, weapons
    and UPGRADES is total nonsense (2 Overpowered and fearsome
    Panzerschecks being asked to be nerfed atm)

    2) Volksgrenadiers new upgrades and weapon buffed should make them cost more to keep the game balanced.

    Proposal: Increase MP cost to both units to 270 and Pop cap by one.

  • #14
    7 months ago

    Sorry all of this commanders just trash i laugh so hard when i see soviet paratroopers landing with smoke screen like ninjas :)) Anyway all of them will be free no need to be best.

  • #15
    7 months ago

    Really liking Grand Offensive so far. Panzerfusilliers and mp 40 Volks are great, but the Offensive Package is kinda a light and would be great to get some upgrades for Strumpioneers and Ober my Suggestions:

    For Sturmpioneers

    Reinforced Sturmpioneers (60 munitions)

    squad sized increased to five

    OR

    Heavy Pioneer package (60 munitions)

    Strumpioneers gain Mg-42
    increase repair
    increase durable
    suffer movement speed penalty in combat

    For Obersoldaten

    Oberführer (60 munitions)

    Squad size increase to 5
    Grants ENDSIEG! (+5% accuracy, -3% weapon cooldown, and -4% received accuracy per member lost)

    Grants Mark Target (Infantry only)

    OR

    Oberjaeger (80 munitions)

    squad gains 3 G43s and Ambush camouflage

  • #16
    7 months ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 418
    edited March 25

    Okw:
    -Panzerfusillier are pretty broken in live game so on paper i don't really get the buff because they have more utility now and come sooner and are cheaper and still have g43's and 5/6 man squad! I feels bad for panzergrenadiers (kappa). Also funny they cost now as much as volks aka the other big issue of okw (witch are sadly untouched).
    Also Breakthrought Doctrine get PF at cp2 so i guess you'll need at one point to bring it down to vet 0 in this doctrine as well to normalise units.
    I just tried quickly for this one, i'll edit when i'll be able to use them more.
    Edit: imo the second they get g43s you're back to crazy town. Their vet are problematic and could use a rework. I don't really test much here because they seems unchanged when it comes to stats.

    -Tiger: Love the okw tiger 1 but it shoud be renamed command tiger i guess although command tiger 1 is a bit redundant with command panther while making a lot of command units for axis in team game (command p4/panther/tiger1) so maybe vet4 ability should be changed.
    I hate it got speed buff tho really, i would have rather nerf top speed on all Heavies because those are very stong and versatile units.
    I was able to call in both tiger 1 and tiger 2 witch should not happen. Because king Tiger is a super ability that apply to all commander i really wonder what is the point of tiger 1 aside of being able to call it and skip tech.

    Core faction change
    OKW really need to adress volks...

  • #17
    7 months ago
    maxhewittmaxhewitt East Sussex, United KingdomPosts: 6

    Hi All! Noticed a few bugs when using this commander:

    • OKW commander lets you have KT and command tiger on same field!
    • OKW Panzerfusiliers don't have mine outline for placement and no mine planting animation
  • #18
    7 months ago
    RomanovRomanov Posts: 48

    As most people say the Panzerfüsiliers with double Shrek would be a game-breaker. Having a reasonably cheap and durable 5-man squad with 2!(!!!) Schrecks is ridiculous. I would propose we Give them 2x Panzerbüchse 39 from the Singleplayer instead and add some abilities. Update them (beef up their penetration and rate of fire etc.) and add a treadbreaker or target weakspot ability to it. It would suit the Füsiliers to fight mainly with Rifles, including AT rifles.

    As for the rest of the droctrine, it seems fine, i like the OKW Tiger I a lot, tho the assault package without Pioneer flamers is a bit meager. if you do not want to use the exact same ability as Feuersturm you could add something else like a MG42 upgrade for Obers that gives them a button or defensive positioning ability like Guards (since they already get a surpression ability with veterancy).

  • #19
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 300
    edited March 22

    Panzerfusilliers

    Don't break the game giving them 2 Panzerschrecks . . . . this item already does massive amounts of damage and unlocking it for T0 infantry units seems disruptive.

    Replace that upgrade with some Ptrs rifle or similar AT-rifles dealing damage over time for more balanced games.

    Conscripts costing 250mp and having restrictions to unlock their AT-grenades don't even come close to this game breaker 260mp infantry unit with AT-grenades included until they upgrade their weapons to Panzerschrecks.

  • #20
    7 months ago
    AzurewrathAzurewrath Posts: 11

    Panzerfusilliers

    Can be upgraded with two Panzerschrecks for 120 munitions. Grants the ability to plant Teller mines, but disables ATG Grenades. Locks out G43s.

    Giving cheap,5-man squad with 2 Panzerschrecks is too much.
    It should be 1 Panzerschreck costing 60 munitions.

  • #21
    7 months ago

    fusil is fine

    poor ai dmg(kar 98 dmg 10) but have normal grenade

    can use rifle AT grenade without tech(good for early vehicle)

    OKW also need 2 shrek infantry and fusils finally get the job succesfully

    but i think teller mine for fusil is too OP

    **he dont need Mine **

  • #22
    7 months ago
    Aiborne82Aiborne82 Posts: 17
    edited March 22

    Just used this guy against my friend and holy crap does he have gamebreaking potential. There are actually a few issues with this commander. The first, is why on earth would you ever allow MP40's on volks with smoke grenades and then lower the cost of Fusiliers to volks price? This all the while setting Fusiliers at 0CP as well. I'd hardly say the fusiliers are fine or balanced for their cost effectiveness at the moment. The current OKW manpower float on top of their ability to already blob rather effectively makes this commander insanely powerful. On top of giving the fusiliers 2 Panzerschrecks AND teller mines? Out of all 5 of these commanders this one is literally a recipe for the complete destruction of any kind of allied control in the beginning or mid game what so ever. Would hate to see the Americans try to play against this guy in his current condition. An important bug to note too is that if you call in a Tiger I first you can still purchase the Tiger II if you manage to save enough. Would dominate some folks in anything bigger than a 1v1. Might wanna check up on this one.

  • #23
    7 months ago
    WAAAGH2000WAAAGH2000 Posts: 87

    Use 250/7 mortar halftrack replace MP40 ?VG already have MP44 ,mortar HT can support infantry more quick

  • #24
    7 months ago
    YanggesaisiYanggesai… Posts: 32
    edited April 4

    I do think Panzerfusilliers is a good idea, though 120munitions for two shrecks seems really powerful to someone, but it costs much and it is the only method which is effective to against panzer by infantry and with a commander especially! I do not understand why there are some people trying to compare it with those common infantry like conscripts, PIAT ones or US units, it makes no sense to compare like that. I believe if a commander could just bring a weak or ordinary unit to the field, then why the skill or the commander is worthful to chose? We choose a commander is to solve problems in the battlefield, breaking the status quo, finding a way out of a stalemate, especially for OKW, not to show multiple fancy unit characters right? Like Shocktroops, guards, paratroops, pathfinders and so on, what they are supposed to do, is mean to stab into the weak points of our enemies or enhance the shortcomings of ours, not to increase the total number of MP or hold the line. Besides, Panzerfusilliers would be not effective to against infantry when they have the munitions to carry two shrecks in middle and late games, which has plenty of middle and heavy tanks even, it is kind of balance already. If the unit could only behave ordinary, like non-commander units, hardly to manage his job, and even not that effective to solving the problems, then just kill this boring and tiresome unit please.

    Another point is, is Panzergrenadiere really that spamed? If it was, how many players have used them to against Tanks or Panzers in official competitions? What's the price of the Panzergrenadiere to against panzers? The risk of dropping shrecks, losing manpower and even the whole squad to against Tanks, is really not that easy. Besides, Panzergrenadier is not a commander skilled unit, it is ordinary unit from middle tech base.

  • #25
    7 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    Not sure if this has been posted yet but um... I know it's called "grand offensive" but the tiger call in doesn't lock out the KT....
  • #26
    7 months ago

    Can i propose some changes for the doctrine? Feedback would be nice.

    [0 CP] Panzerfusilliers - Same stats/changes as of New commander mod.

    [1 CP] Artilery field officer - Same stats as wermacht one, veterancy changes:

    Lvl 1 - Medkit drop instead or mantain first aid?

    Lvl 2 - Same stats as wermacht

    Lvl 3 - Same stats as wermacht

    Lvl 4 - More squad durability? Some other bonus?

    Lvl 5 - Stuka strafe? bomb drop? Pak 40/MG drop?

    Reasoning: the sturm officer habilities mix well with the offensive theme of the doctrine, much more than giving volks SMGs IMO. It should replace the stuka smoke drop, you lose the global call in range and map view for it being free.

    [4 CP] - Tactical movement

    Gotta go fast!

    [17 CP] - Tiger ace

    Same MP/fuel as the King tiger, 26 pop cap comes at vet 1 - 3 (up to debate for balance) same changes that are to be implemented, but has 5 vet levels, the first 3, same stats as the Wermacht ace, last 2 would be the OKW tiger command habilities.

    I haven't found a good substitute for the Offensive Package, maybe should leave it as it is?

    Maybe replace with Breaktrough? A cheap but very nice ability for capping ground and cutting off territory fits well with the theme.

    Railway artilery or the LeFh would also fit the theme very well and would add for late game pushes, LeFh being particulary nasty with the Field officer. Or we could go the other way and give defensive fortifications or 221 armored car to secure territory already taken.

  • #27
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 300
    edited March 23

    Bug

    Upgraded Panzerfusillier are just dropping a single Panzerschreck after getting killed .

    Sometimes they don't drop any weapon at all. this in particular kind of seems to happen when they get killed on the enemy territory (they were pinged by mgs when killed)

  • #28
    7 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 300

    Bug

    Infantry units upgraded or equipped with Panzerschrecks are still recieving this buff

  • #29
    7 months ago
    SlayerSlayer Posts: 132
    That's not a bug. It says "anti-tank gun squads", meaning the guys manning a Pak4 or a Raketenwerfer. Not the guys carrying a Panzerschreck.
  • #30
    7 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @Patrol_Omega said:
    > Bug
    >
    > Upgraded Panzerfusillier are just dropping a single Panzerschreck after getting killed .
    >
    > Sometimes they don't drop any weapon at all. this in particular kind of seems to happen when they get killed on the enemy territory (they were pinged by mgs when killed)

    Weapon drops are never Guaranteed. They could do both and they could drop none. It's something like a 10% chance each of memory serves me right. Guards have a lower chance however due to how many they have.
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