Soviet - New Commander Mod Official Discussion

#1
8 months ago
Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 274 admin

Hey all,

Please use this thread to discuss the New Commander Mod and provide any feedback you have in relation to the Soviets.

Current version notes, and instructions for how to play the mod are here: http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2019/03/19/new-commander-update-commander-rosters-and-test-mod

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Comments

  • #2
    8 months ago
    Dangminh25Dangminh25 Posts: 66
    edited March 21

    -SVTs drop, don't see or here any plane, the voice lines is from partisans, when picking up only receive 35 munitions and don't see infantry (conscrips, engineer) holding any SVT rifle
    on the next update, i think it should only picking up by soviet faction (guard, shock troops, conscrip, engineer, partisans), the pack can't pick up by penal, airborn and assault guard
    other faction will receive 35 munitions when pick it up
    -Airborn Guard didn't have parachute animation and they pop up into the smoke before the plane flight to the target

  • #3
    8 months ago
    • SOV - Airbourne
      SVTs are going to be a bigger change than most people realize. Depending on the cost, it could be a very cheap way to make conscripts far more effective in battle. Airborne Guards, man where do I even begin. This is the best thing in the whole patch, in my opinion. Paradropped guards with SVTs and options to upgrade with DPs seems nigh overpowered, especially with all their abilities, but I think without their PTRS rifles, it should be okay. Airborne rally point seems to function as an even more powerful version of the US beacon. I hope that the reinforce is only for airborne troops and not any soldier, as that seems a little too powerful. The medical airdrop is also a much needed alternative for soviet healing, so that is good. I wonder though if the cost should be changed to 30 munitions to bring it on par with the OKW sturmpioneer medical drop. The DsHK and IL-2 are good as well, the IL-2 especially will be a good late-game ability. A very fun commander but needs to be carefully balanced.
  • #4
    8 months ago

    Soviet - Airbourne

    SVT Drop - good

    Airborne Rally Point, DsHK Paradrop - worth it

    IL-2 Rocket Strafe

    Requires 10 Command Points.
    100 munitions
    Barrages the area with P-47 rockets.

    -> Most of these types of skills are useless because they don't hit the enemy

    change to loiter skill(240muni)

    Airborne Guards

    Costs 360 manpower.
    Equipped with SVTs.
    Can be equipped with 3 DP 28s for 100 munitions.
    Has access to Orrah, Smoke Grenades and has ‘To the Last Man’ ability

    -> WTF is this?

    balance team finally make new version of "JLI-like monster OP unit"

    orrah, smokes, "To the last man".....? where is "win button"?

    They makes USF airborne "trash" but makes soviet airborne "mighty stalin killing machine"

    What is soviet airborne? i didnt heard anything about this in history

    USF airborn

    380/28, 6 man

    no RA bonus at vet 0

    can reinforce When they are near the antenna(+290 MP)

    2 1919 lmg(120muni), can fire while they are moving

    grenade

    Soviet guard airborn

    360/maybe 27, 6man

    vet 0 RA bonus -3%

    3 DP-28(100muni), "to the last man" passive

    conscript battery makes guard airborn always get full-power

    smoke and oorah

    Soviet airborn is cheaper and stronger than USF MP draining airborn

  • #5
    8 months ago
    RittyanRittyan Posts: 1

    Hello, this commander is very exciting and bring a breath of fresh air to gameplay in Soviet faction :D
    But I would like to suggest a few changes to this commander.

    Rally Point
    - Forward Retreat Point should be only friendly territory. If it were built in enemy territory, Units could break through frontline by retreat command. (very funny)
    - Medical Airdrop cost should be increased. It is worth more than the munition cost.

    Airborne Guards
    - smoke must be removed. I could destroy OKW Schwerer Panzer HQ by Penals taking advantage of this smoke.

    IL-2 Rocket Strafe
    - should be changed to be like Rocket Strike P-47 ability. Hitting enemy tanks is difficult.

    Also, I found a bug while in-game. I'll write it down below.

    Bugs
    - Soviet medics don't appear even if researched Field Infirmary.
    - SVTs Drop does not work.

    I hope this commander will be used by many players. Thanks.

  • #6
    8 months ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 122

    @Rittyan написал:
    Hello, this commander is very exciting and bring a breath of fresh air to gameplay in Soviet faction :D
    But I would like to suggest a few changes to this commander.

    Rally Point
    - Forward Retreat Point should be only friendly territory. If it were built in enemy territory, Units could break through frontline by retreat command. (very funny)
    - Medical Airdrop cost should be increased. It is worth more than the munition cost.

    Airborne Guards
    - smoke must be removed. I could destroy OKW Schwerer Panzer HQ by Penals taking advantage of this smoke.

    IL-2 Rocket Strafe
    - should be changed to be like Rocket Strike P-47 ability. Hitting enemy tanks is difficult.


    Also, I found a bug while in-game. I'll write it down below.

    Bugs
    - Soviet medics don't appear even if researched Field Infirmary.
    - SVTs Drop does not work.

    I hope this commander will be used by many players. Thanks.

    No

  • #7
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 21

    Airborne Guards

    Seem to have Partisans stats making them very squishy and fast to kill. Aside from that, can they be equipped with a frag grenade or shock troops weapon instead? Or even with their weapons already upgraded at least.

    Since dropping them on the enemy lines results in a current suicide mission with their current Partisans stats, long time reload time and no grenade or satchel to kill enemies.

    Overall they seem to be overpriced for their very poor performance.

  • #8
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    Airborne Rally Point

    It can act as a Forward Retreat Point after getting two HQs on the field. (T1, T2, T3 or T4 combinations)

    So it can feel smoother and open to different scenarios or tactics.

  • #9
    8 months ago

    OLD:
    SVT Drop

    Requires 1 Command Point.
    Drops a crate at the target position that can be picked up by infantry.
    Grants the squad that picks it up with 3 Penal Battalion SVTs; takes up 1 weapon slot.

    NEW IDEA:
    SVTS- and lend lease weapon drop

    Conscripts can be upgraded with SVTs

    lend lease weapon can be para dropped

    1 BAR and 1 piat launcher can be dropped for 90 munitions

  • #10
    8 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    As others have said the SVT drop is very bugged. It gives you like 1/3 of your munitions back instead of providing any SVTs

    Also the HQ medic upgrade does not work when you pick this Doctrine. You can buy it, but no medic ladies appear
  • #11
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 129
    edited March 21

    @Andy_RE said:
    Hey all,

    Please use this thread to discuss the New Commander Mod and provide any feedback you have in relation to the Soviets.

    Current version notes, and instructions for how to play the mod are here: http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2019/03/19/new-commander-update-commander-rosters-and-test-mod

    Hello! I played this mod, but there are problems:

    1) SVT Drop - infantry which supports the box, but there is no SVT-40 armament.

    • SVT Drop - I have already ordered this box with the SVT-40 weapon three times, after taking it, the infantry has standard weapons (No SVT-40 in hand).

    2) Airborne Guards - Everything is perfectly done, but it is better not to give them 3x DP-28.

    • It is better to arm them: The initial 3x SVT-40 and 3x Mosin.
      Improvement: AVT-40 (Automatic Rifle Tokorev), then 3x SVT-40 and 3x AVT-40 will be armed in the detachment.

    • "Smoke Grenade" Good idea

    • "Orrah!" not a good idea.
    • "Available to 1 veterans "To the Last Man" we do not understand the ability or not (just like the Penalty)
    • "To the Last Man" Replace it with "Hit the Dirt".
    • Hit the Dirt = Suppression immunity. Squad will gain 'light' cover (-25% received accuracy and Camouflage the squad while they are lying.) Squad will not move.

    3) Airborne Rally Point - it looks very cool, but it does not have enough.

    • It must be done so that it can only compensate for the losses of the "Paratrooper" (Soviet Paratrooper, American Paratrooper, American Pathfinders and British Commandos).
    • Medical Airdrop - I would change them to "munition Airdrop".

    4) Paras DsHK

    • I would have removed this option!
    • Replace "DsHK Paradrop" with something else.

    5) IL-2 Rocket Strafe

    • A good option. Like, but there is but:
    • Make it so that it attacks against infantry and vehicles.
    • Increase the cost from 100 to 180 ammo.
    • Increase the flight time and re-attack.
  • #12
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 22

    Airborne Guards

    Bug: They have not been given their ability of Button Vehicle after upgrading their weapons.

  • #13
    8 months ago

    SVT Drop

    • Requires 2 command points, not 1 as stated in the blog.
    • Since it requires 2 command points, its only purpose, to strengthen conscripts, comes way to late to be useful

    Airborne Guards

    • Very similar to regular guards, I see no point in using them besides of them being airdopped

    Arborne Rally Point

    • Why should i spend resources on this? The base medics do their job fair enough. And wont put 15 fuel delay on my tanks.

    DsHK

    • I can't find anything useful about it. There is no sense in building T1 and T2. If I am going conscripts i usually go for T2 to get HMG Mortars and AT-Gun. So if i go for T2 i already have a HMG which does its job fair enough and comes out combat ready from the base. This DsHK is airdropped. So if I want to have it combat ready i need to sacrifice a conscript squad or retreat to base. Makes no sense to me.

    IL-2 Rocket Strafe

    • Not useful either. 100 Ammo, which the enemy can easily dodge or just drive through. 2 Penal AT Satchel are way better since they cripple the enemy tank and put them in danger of being shot by AT Gun.

    Conclusion.

    I wot spend my supply on this commander, not even talking about my real money.

    It seems this commander should strengthen a conscript based build, since Penals have SVT already and Airdropped guards are more expensive then Penals and are only available after 2 command points. Since i play almost only 4vs4 Team Games i go for penals 95% of the games. I face the most difficulties in the following three cases:

    1. Early game against OKW, Sturmpioniere do i need to say more?
    2. Lategame
      a. against heavily buffed Armor from Kommandopanzer IV and Kommandopanther
      b. as I get barraged to death by Werfer, Stuka on wheels and commaner skills

    What does this new commander give me against it? Nothing. So ill most likely skip it and buy other commanders first.

    Im very sad that deep battle tactics didnt make it. Commando T34? Thats at least useful against lategame armor after all.

    So if I will always be in the Situation to have this commander, ill use it in a fun game against easy AI.

    Some suggestions to make it better:

    Make available SVT from the beginning (0 command points) for conscripts.

    Replace airdropped DsHK with a light vehicle (like Locust in CoH1)

    IL-2 Rocket Strafe. Replace with something like IL-2 23mm or Wehrmacht Stuka 37mm.

  • #14
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 21

    SVT Drop

    An alternative solution:

    Paradropping 3 Dp Light Machine guns

    This will create a sense of actually playing differently than just rifles between Engineers, Conscripts or the smart **overlapping ** Penals SVTs

    Ps: Conscript has been nerfed so many times, that you almost never get to see them in high elo or competitive scene. So Penal Battalions are the way to go.

    Final Note: Since both WER and OBW main infantry units and weapons are getting hardcore buffs for late game (and for some reason improved starting stats as well), shouldn't Conscripts be buffed as well? They will be more useless than they currently are.

  • #15
    8 months ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 418
    edited March 29

    Sov:
    -Airdropped weapons is a bit meh. I see what you want to do by giving conscripts an upgrade but you still have to pick t1 or t2 and the commander gives an airdropped mg witch is in synergy with penals who have SVTs without spending ammo. Also it doesn't work and gives munitions.
    -Airborne guards are snipers models, the spawn animation is really not great (hope it can be improved). Partisan voiceline also at cp2.
    I don't find them interesting tho, they are good but i would rather have ppsh ones i guess. Or gives them a choice between ppsh and DPs and lock the rally behind one of the upgrade, smoke for the other.
    -Delay to react to rockets seems too short even for a skill shot.
    -Airborne rally is really something i would have wanted for pathfinders beacon. Medical crates has no key assigned. It's nice. Wish it was limited to airbone troops tho.

    (Unsure) I had a no medic at base bug despite the upgrade. idk if related or just a one time thing, i'll try more.

  • #16
    8 months ago
    maxhewittmaxhewitt East Sussex, United KingdomPosts: 6

    Hi all! Loving the new commanders. I noticed the following bug for the soviet airdrop commander:

    Base medics don't spawn!

  • #17
    8 months ago

    Good night audience, I want to express an opinion about this tactic of Soviet paratroopers and their supply by air and support. Let's start with the fact that the tactic as a whole has shoals that need to be corrected. With regards to the paratroopers themselves and how they looked during that war. The Soviet paratroopers wore flight helmets and blue field caps, which indicated their belonging to the airborne troops. They wore padded jackets so as not to freeze in flight with landing. -40 but also ABC-36, PPD-34 and later and PPSh-41. I wanted of course to have PPS in their hands. As for DP machine guns, please correct the error in the name of the machine gun, it is called DP-27 and not DP-28, this mistake and should be fixed. Smoke in the nomination is not needed, the best prezemleniya will do with the aircraft as it was with the American parashyutistami.Dobavit them grenade shrapnel like shock otryadov.Sposobnost until the last soldier is too much in my opinion and let it be replaced with anti-tank grenades, or even what the thread capability.
    There are no problems with DShK, just change the icon for DShK.
    The release of medications is better than 3 pieces and without certain buildings and let it cost as much as the Wehrmacht in the Air doctrine, it will be a good thing to start with. Now about the attack ability of the IL-2 Attack missiles: It will be easier if you do the same The United States in the Desatán company, where two F-47 attack aircraft carry blows at tanks, do the same here, let them patrol a certain area or point with two airplanes. If you still take this into account, it will not be bad, thanks in advance.

  • #18
    8 months ago

    hi All. just tested the new Soviet airborne. first of all guards with 3 dps are awesome. like they are god at long range then. but like someone said there should be a choice to choose between ppsh or dps . and there should be an option to choose grenades with pp eg. and/or smoke with dps.

    other than this I don't really see the point for svts. I think it should be made a random weapon drop to make it more interesting so people actually use this in anticipation.

    dshk mg is nice and it really helped in mounting an offensive to counter large enemy infantry with just one squad manning it once it drops on the battlefiled.

    I think those rocket strikes can be improved. make them loitering rocket strikes and/or increase theri damage. at this present state they are just useless and waste of munitons.

    also base medics are not appearing in the mod

  • #19
    8 months ago
    I think the airborne guard is just way too strong, just a superior version of USF airborne. Cutting the smokenade or too the last man/,replace the dp to an mmunition upgrade seems like a good idea.
  • #20
    8 months ago

    soviet airborn guard

    -3 DP is too OP, decrease 1 DP and add sachel

  • #21
    8 months ago
    Aiborne82Aiborne82 Posts: 17

    The airborne Guard definitely need to be adjusted here. 2 DP's is just fine. With SVT's the smoke before the drop is a little ridiculous as well. This might need to be balanced a bit due to their insane long range DPS after vet and 3DP upgrade.

  • #22
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 22

    Airdropped weapons

    Takes 24 seconds to land and to become available for units to pick them. Perhaps reducing it by half will allow faster reactions and more in sync with infantry rotation.

    Bugs:

    1) The crate is not giving any weapon (SVTs) and instead is giving 25 ammo when picked up.

    2) Fields medics are not appearing after buying Field Infirmary

    Opinion on this ability: SVTs are only going to be taken by either Engineers or Conscripts, being the first option totally unnecessary, it leaves us with only one viable option left: Conscripts.

    However, Conscripts have been nerfed so many times, that it is still not worth it recruiting several squads of that unit type.
    Therefore, dropping a different weapon that can also be equipped to Penals could be more fun and tactical.

    Being those options:

    -DP LMGs
    -Bren
    -BAR

    Being DP LMGs the more accurate option for the Soviets.

  • #23
    8 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    Commander is too buggy for me to give a good review on. Airborne guards seemed cool, probably would have don't better if I didn't send them to fight a luchs forgetting they are not regular guards though...

    Air drop DSHK was fun
    Having a forward reinforcement and healing point was fun
    Rockets seemed to work well
    SVTs were nonexistent
    Aaaaaand somehow Soviet base healing was made even worse by being 250mp for nothing instead of 250mp for slow healing...
  • #24
    8 months ago
    1 Rockets is quite good.Frist i expect it to be as bad as 23 mm straft which barely do damage to vehicle and infantry.But it turn out to be good.Good damage vs infantry also but if you want to hit the tank you need to blow engine frist And don't expect the skill to hit with out any extra effort from click at the skill and hit the ground.

    2 SVT does not make much different i suggest rise the price to 60 ammunitions and make it some how more"useful" plus please make the cooldown a bit faster to decrease the time for mass upgrade too.

    Yes i understand ghe idea of paradrop but consider from balance perspective you will see that other nation can upgrade multiple squad at once while sovient need to wait for paradrop which take much longer to arm every squad with new weapon upgrade.And i don't understand why soviet need such drawback.

    If the reason is"Because it come from daradrop and plane can't carry a lot of weapon".Well i don't think that is a good reason to bLance game ability.

    3 retreatpoint is also good.Maybe a bit to good compare to forward hq.So i suggest to increase the price to 20 feul and add bonus damage to fire weapon agaist it so German won't have to rely on heavy weapon to take it out.

    4 Duska HMG is finally worth the price after those buff.Thank you.

    5 airborn guard.Some people said this unit OP but I think it is not.Don't understqnd why this people get along with Rifle man double bar section double bren paratrooper double.30 cal.Dp-28 is inferior compare to those weapon mention above plus it is equip to expensive unit not every basic core like rifle man or section.Plus this guard also have no access to grenade which give them defical time dealing with mass infantry.So i don't know why people have problem with this 3 DP guard.

    But for the skill "to the last man" I Think this skill should be switch.One of the signature ability of soviet is "merge".Which the Idea is to let conscript pick up the heavy weapon of elite squad and keep fighting on the front line.But when we look at Soviet elite unit half of those unit have the skill call"to the last man"which reward player for not using merge.And i think that does not make a lot off sense.The ability should enhance eachcherter to show faction strenght not to go against eacherter.

    So i sugest to replace it with one of the skill below.

    5.1 "know terrain" If the squad does not retreat for 2 minites(very likely come from merge) activate this buff.Effect is to make all conscript model in this squad fight as effective as guard model.with this skill it will help encourge merge and not making the Unit become over power.For the effect just show the sign of osttrupen cover buff.

    5.2 "guard hit the dirt" use the existing ability to add more damage to this unit.

    5.3"Conscript hit the dirt" help counter attack German HMG.By run in and press the skill to be imune to supression.It will result in the squad deal consider amout damage toward mg.With this skill german player will have to chose the place to deploy their mg wisely(behide cover).This skill will mosely work when fight Enemy MG in the open if enemy MG is behide some kind of cover the mg will probelly win the engagement anyway..
  • #25
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    @Andy_RE One question, which Intel bulletins can I use to buff the new Guards? Since they seem to be Partisans instead of a regular guard unit, making them very squishy. I'm still not sure if they are actually partisans or something in between both units. So should I use Partisan bulletins or guard bulletins?

  • #26
    8 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    New guards are not partisans. Audio=/= stats.
  • #27
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    edited March 23

    Where can I check unit stats? Good fellow @thedarkarmadillo
    I've seen some web pages but are outdated.

  • #28
    8 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    You have to use the mod tools I believe. @vipper is our resident expert and I'll admit I run on memory most of the time and adjust according to their corrections.

    At any rate there's no way that they would copy partisan stats on the unit since there is already guard squads in game, all they did was give them SVTs so there's no reason for partisans to even enter considerations except for the audio.
  • #29
    8 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited March 23

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    Where can I check unit stats? Good fellow @thedarkarmadillo
    I've seen some web pages but are outdated.

    This is a couple of patch back but most things are updated with the live:https://coh2db.com/stats/

    Checking the stat from a MOD is more difficult and you probably have to use the tools and try to edit the MOD itself.

    Guards bulletins probably work for all Guards units, one can probably test with Vision bulletin.

  • #30
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    Ok thanks @thedarkarmadillo! I just got confused because of the audio as you mentioned, I laughed hard with the "our resident expert" hahah good to know!

    Very well appreciated @Vipper

    I simply love Reverse Engineering in order to understand how things were developed, and get the most out of it.

  • #31
    8 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    Thanks @vipper. Appreciated as always
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